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Author Topic:   Breast Cancer Awareness
Faith
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posted October 17, 2013 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was talking to a new acquaintance of mine last week, and she revealed that her relationship with her husband is far from ideal, but she is staying with him for their children's sake.

However, she said, her mother died of breast cancer, and she knows that her mother ALSO just stayed with her father "for the children's sake"...and my acquaintance believes that her mother would be alive today if she had just sought a divorce.

Not surprisingly, my acquaintance worries that she is much more likely to get breast cancer if she stays in this hard marriage.

Now what's odd to me is, this woman blames her mother for making the "wrong" decision. And the fact that she loves her deceased mother but still blames her just goes to show how much hostility people have, in general, towards women who make "the wrong choice." Who stay in loveless marriages for the kids' sake, but it backfires, or who leave marriages to the detriment and heartbreak of the children. Seems like a lot of women are just caught between a rock and hard place and their body says, "Then let's just leave this earth."

I've talked to so many women who have these same concerns, but I don't see anything in "breast cancer awareness" literature that is speaking to the mind-body aspect of the problem.

So I wonder....

Are you aware of the mind-body connection and breast cancer? (Just in case you're not, I'm posting something below.)

Do you think women are usually "weak" for sticking in loveless marriages for their children's sake, or do you think their sacrifice is more often well-intentioned and typical of how mothers want to protect their kids?

If it became common knowledge that women are more likely to die of breast cancer if they are in a bad marriage, do you think more women would try to save their own lives by divorcing?

Finally, my heart goes out to those of you who have suffered or are suffering because of this disease.

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Faith
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posted October 17, 2013 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just some links...

quote:
THE Fourth CHAKRA is located in your heart center and represents your intuition and love. Organs associated with the Fourth Chakra include the heart, lungs, blood vessels, shoulders, ribs, breasts, diaphragm, and upper esophagus. Spiritual and emotional issues that can block energy in the Fourth Chakra are emotional expression; the capacity to fully express and resolve anger, hostility, joy, love, grief and forgiveness; the balance of giving and receiving and nurturing of self verses nurturing of others. Physical dysfunctions that can occur are: heart attacks, hypertension, chest pain, congestive heart failure, asthma, allergies, lung cancer, pneumonia, upper back and shoulder problems, and breast cancer.
http://www.drnorthrup.com/womenshealth/energycenters/4.php

Also:
http://www.budwigcenter.com/cancer-personality.php
http://www.mumsnothavingchemo.com/2011/09/the-cancer-personality/

I don't mean to say that having these emotional issues means a person WILL get cancer. Obviously preventive measures can be effective, otherwise everyone with genetic risk would develop the disease. But it's universally acknowledged that stress increases one's chances of getting cancer, and the nature of the stress often determines the nature of the cancer.

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Swift Freeze
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posted October 18, 2013 03:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swift Freeze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I feel the same way. Stress is a huge negative force on the body which I feel makes us more susceptible to illnesses. Whether that includes Cancer is, I guess open to scientific study, but I don't see why not.

On another note, I'm sorry for the situation your acquaintance is in, I know she is married, and there are kids involved. However, if she is miserable, that is only going to bleed through the emotional fabric of the relationships with her children. I can't say I have ever been in that situation, but she is not trapped.

I don't know what is not ideal, about their relationship, but it is something they can try and work on. If however, he, or she, shows no interest in trying to make it work. Then they're better off splitting up.

What good does it do, to try and raise children in a house with no love between their parents, and an undercurrent of misery?

I do not think Women are by any stretch of the imagination weak. A loveless marriage is tough, and it would always be my silent or anonymous recommendation for the marriage to be dissolved. I think that feeling trapped into a marriage for the sake of finance, or children, or other reasons can be incredibly debilitating and damaging. However, I don't think their 'sacrifice' is necessarily well intentioned. It may be they don't want to cause their children emotional distress by splitting up, but I said before, I believe children pick up on emotional distress anyway, regardless of whether you split up or not.

Everyone deserves to be happy, and if you are not happy in your current relationship, and either one or both parties is not interested in rekindling the relationship. Then you are better off separated, for yourselves, and your kids.

It sounds foreboding, but we are doomed to repeat our mistakes until we learn from them. I do feel that she should have learned from her mother. I feel that my mother lacks will power, for example she could give up smoking if she wanted it enough, but she doesn't. She gave up alcohol after an ultimatum from my Father way before I was born, "Me or the drink." So I know she can do it. Anyway,the most important thing I learned was to have strong will power. If I want something badly enough, I will do and use everything in my possession to make it happen. The problem is I lack the motivation and/or direction. Not really on point, sorry.

Breast Cancer is a serious issue, it's been decreasing over the years which is a good sign, but it is still a frightening thing for any Woman to go through.

------------------
Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek Happiness. Follow your dreams.

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Zander916
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From: Midwest
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posted October 18, 2013 04:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zander916     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree SF.

Briefly on the smoking issue. My whole family smokes but me! They talk about quitting, but all that I hear is, "Should and Maybe". I tell them. If you have ANY doubt whatsoever. If you say should, maybe, or next Monday, or after this pack. It's not going to happen. That's not enough. You have to WANT it. As in it'll drive you nuts if you DON'T quit.

Anyway...
I didn't read the articles, sorry. It's 3 a.m. and I need to think about bed at some point. LOL
Just quickly having not read them yet. It's tough to say what effects stress has on the body as far as Cancer. Certainly, I think it's very detrimental. Fighting basic illness is a little more difficult, blood pressure, hormones go whacky, etc. So maybe! I'm not one to say yes or no.

Now, marriages. I grew up in a home with only my mother and two older sisters. I have a relationship with my father but it's pretty light. I'm very close with my mom. My sisters are both not only mothers, but grandmothers.
I have no children, but have had relationships with women who do.
The thing that I see in any mother that I'VE known. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions. They will always put children first, even before themselves. They will always do whatever they believe is best for the children regardless of any other consequences.
My mom would give me all of her money, her car, her arm or her eye if I needed it - anything. She'll think of herself last and all mothers that I've personally known are this way.
So, I believe if a mother KNEW that sticking it out in a bad marriage could cause her cancer and her life eventually. I think she would still stick it out for the kids. So that they grow up to hopefully be the adults she wants them to be.
The mothers I've known, there are no limits, no sacrifice that doesn't make it worth it, for children.
Even if it is actually wrong, if they think it's right, themselves come last.


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Faith
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posted October 18, 2013 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much for these thoughtful answers. I really appreciate it, and will reply a bit more when I get time.

For now, 'just wanted to add to what I was saying about stress and cancer~

The Stress and Cancer Link: 'Master-Switch’ Stress Gene Enables Cancer's Spread

quote:
A new study from the US published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation finds that activation of a master gene called ATF3 that is important for helping cells adapt to stress may be involved in helping breast, and possibly other cancers spread to other parts of the body (metastasis).

With the vast majority of all cancer suffering and death associated with metastasis, researchers are keen to learn more about what causes it. The American Cancer Society says metastasis is the single most significant challenge to management of cancer. Stress could be unifying theme in cancer spread.

Previous studies have shown that stress is a risk factor for cancer, and for example, that psychological stress is linked to breast cancer aggressiveness.



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Faith
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posted October 18, 2013 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not asking anyone to read all this, but just to add substance to what I was speculating about, one more article:

quote:
Christina Koenig found out she had breast cancer on a Friday afternoon. She was just 39 years old.

On Monday, she thought she knew why the cancer had struck.

"I went in and talked to a team of medical professionals who ultimately performed a lumpectomy, and I said, 'How long has this been there?' They said, 'Five to ten years.' And immediately, my mind jumped to: 'Well, I did go through a divorce. I did have stress.' "

Ms. Koenig, who lives in Chicago, was divorced four years before her cancer was diagnosed. Was it just a coincidence, she wondered?

Now, four years later, she still wonders. So do many other women who get breast cancer. Ms. Koenig now works for Y-ME National Breast Cancer Organization, which gets 40,000 calls a year on its hot line. Over and over, she says, women ask, Did stress cause their cancer by weakening their immune system and allowing a tumor to grow?

"It's a widespread belief," Ms. Koenig said.


Continued: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/29/health/29canc.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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Faith
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posted October 19, 2013 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
Everyone deserves to be happy, and if you are not happy in your current relationship, and either one or both parties is not interested in rekindling the relationship. Then you are better off separated, for yourselves, and your kids.[

I hear you. I just think that relationships are always hard so you have to expect that it won't always be happy. Figuring out what's an "acceptable" level of unhappiness is such a hard thing to do. I've talked to divorced people who struggle to put their choice to leave in definite terms, to give them sufficient weight to justify their decision even to themselves (as most have guilt along with relief.) It's kind of a nebulous thing for many people, unless there was obvious cheating and abuse.

quote:
Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
It sounds foreboding, but we are doomed to repeat our mistakes until we learn from them. I do feel that she should have learned from her mother.

I think she is trying. With several children and no income, it will be hard for her to break the chain, but, from what I know of the situation, I hope she will.

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Faith
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posted October 19, 2013 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zander916:

The thing that I see in any mother that I'VE known. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions. They will always put children first, even before themselves. They will always do whatever they believe is best for the children regardless of any other consequences.
My mom would give me all of her money, her car, her arm or her eye if I needed it - anything. She'll think of herself last and all mothers that I've personally known are this way.
So, I believe if a mother KNEW that sticking it out in a bad marriage could cause her cancer and her life eventually. I think she would still stick it out for the kids. So that they grow up to hopefully be the adults she wants them to be.
The mothers I've known, there are no limits, no sacrifice that doesn't make it worth it, for children.
Even if it is actually wrong, if they think it's right, themselves come last.


Thank you SO MUCH for seeing that.

So, what it comes down to, for most of the mothers I know (myself included) is..."What is the best choice for the kids?"

As I see it, it always boils down to the individual situation, there is no way to generalize. I agree with SF that children will pay the price for parents' fighting, there is no way around that, so if a couple is staying together for the kids but subjecting them to the stress of infighting, that just defeats the whole point.

On the other hand, some people get even nastier after the divorce and will use the children to get even with their ex. Horrible.

I guess..I agree that everyone deserves to be happy but it's simply not attainable for some people, given their character and circumstances.

Again, most mothers I've known also put concerns for their children's well-being above concerns for their own life, but most are acutely aware of the fact that the best decision is not always obvious. Many of us simply don't know what to do.

I think that's the part that could use more compassion in society...sometimes the choice is never clear.

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Zander916
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posted October 19, 2013 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zander916     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Thank you SO MUCH for seeing that.

So, what it comes down to, for most of the mothers I know (myself included) is..."What is the best choice for the kids?"

As I see it, it always boils down to the individual situation, there is no way to generalize. I agree with SF that children will pay the price for parents' fighting, there is no way around that, so if a couple is staying together for the kids but subjecting them to the stress of infighting, that just defeats the whole point.

On the other hand, some people get even nastier after the divorce and will use the children to get even with their ex. Horrible.

I guess..I agree that everyone deserves to be happy but it's simply not attainable for some people, given their character and circumstances.

Again, most mothers I've known also put concerns for their children's well-being above concerns for their own life, but most are acutely aware of the fact that the best decision is not always obvious. Many of us simply don't know what to do.

I think that's the part that could use more compassion in society...sometimes the choice is never clear.


Straying away from breast cancer which if you're okay, I'm okay. I never mind topics straying. Some people get bent out of shape. I give free mammograms by the way just so people are aware. LMAO!

I think there are SO many things to consider. I can definitely see how that decision would be extremely difficult. I'm a very logical thinker when it comes to problem solving, a bit explosive when it comes to standing up for what I think is right.
I think if the guy tends to be manipulative in general, jealous, possessive, and especially abusive verbally/physically. Chances increase that he'll drag the kids into his games. It happened to my sister (she was even jumped and beaten by 7-8 of his family members / friends) Things worked out okay in the end, but it was pretty ugly for a while to say the least.
I've seen kids get caught in the games a few times. Recently with a woman at work. Her husband is just flippin crazy. He was convinced her and I were "sleeping together" which wasn't true. Even HIS OWN lawyer said he was nuts. LOL
I've seen a couple or two pull it off with sticking together for the kids. But then you have to wonder if it will be more or less devastating later or earlier? My parents divorced while I was still in diapers. I have no memory of them being together. They are so different that I can't even imagine it. My dad is Sag and like all Sags. It's fantastic on a semi-close friendship level. Any deeper and the swords come out. So our conversations tend to be superficial... surface kind of stuff.
My mom is Sun, Moon, Mercury Aries. We've had a few battles in my youth but not really too many, or very bad. She learned to just leave me be and I'll relax.
Our relationship is great now.

There's just so many things I can't cover them all. It's really complex, as you and many others know.
Another unfortunate thing is that no matter what decision a mother (or father) makes regarding this they will always have the haunting questions of, "Was that the right decision? How would things have turned out otherwise?"
Always wishing it was laid out for you and you could just choose the path that fits what you want. Unfortunately, you just make a choice as best you can and hope for the best.

I don't even have any kids! LOL
Maybe one day. One of the things that I've always considered is I think I was ready to be a father for years, but not ready to be a husband. I feel ready.
But I can't sit around like I'm waiting for a bus. Keep moving.

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Faith
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posted October 20, 2013 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't mind "straying" especially when it's just the two of us talking now...like, who cares?

And I was going to call this thread something like "Dying for love: Marriage and the Mind-Body Connection" but wasn't in the mood for trying to sound all lofty like that.

You seem to have turned out just fine despite your parents' divorce. I agree earlier divorce is better than later in many cases. And this hits the nail on the head:

quote:
Another unfortunate thing is that no matter what decision a mother (or father) makes regarding this they will always have the haunting questions of, "Was that the right decision? How would things have turned out otherwise?"

Right!

Where is your Mercury, pray tell...you said you are logical, is it in Virgo?

I have an Aquarius Mercury, it's fun but the zaniness can get on my own nerves, I have all these radical thoughts and then a stodgy Cap sun wanting to take the traditional, safe route with everything.

One more question, why is your number 916? Is that some cryptic numerology message or the code to unlock your safe or....? Cuz I know it's not your birthday.

Cheers, nice talking with you

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Faith
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posted October 22, 2013 02:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
test bump

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Randall
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posted October 22, 2013 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TEST

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