posted September 01, 2014 06:18 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by athenegoddess:
You know you have forgiven when you no longer are affected negatively by what they have done. For example if you think about whatever they did, and feel anger or sadness, you still haven't forgiven them.

If you feel peace and love and want the best for them, you have forgiven them.

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posted September 01, 2014 06:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I always thought if you've forgiven someone it just means you don't get mad at the same behavior.

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Sounds like you were taught "how to forgive" by some vile person with the philosophy of "you have to forgive me, and that means I get to do it again." You were lied to. That's not forgiveness, that's enabling someone. This describes enabling in a minute and a half which isn't to be confused with forgiveness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_zVaIAvnY

Though that's specific to chemical abuse, all sorts of negative and dysfunctional behaviors can be enabled. Some are even taught to enable sexual abuse (and call it "forgiveness").

posted September 01, 2014 07:45 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Sounds like you were taught "how to forgive" by some vile person with the philosophy of "you have to forgive me, and that means I get to do it again." You were lied to. That's not forgiveness, that's enabling someone. This describes enabling in a minute and a half which isn't to be confused with forgiveness:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_zVaIAvnY

Though that's specific to chemical abuse, all sorts of negative and dysfunctional behaviors can be enabled. Some are even taught to enable sexual abuse (and call it "forgiveness").

Let me think on how best to explain forgiveness so it can't be confused with the false definition you were taught.

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posted September 01, 2014 08:10 PM            

Best way I can describe forgiveness is think of it as a gift you give someone else.

posted September 01, 2014 11:26 PM            

In some cases it can be a gift and a clean slate, like when a friend failed to pay me back. In that case I considered her circumstances and realized that while she could pay me back it would mean risk and hardship for her while I was doing okay without it and I also reminded myself of all the things she'd done for me (perhaps even keeping me out of prison by a risk she took for me once) as well as all the happiness she brings me and decided she was worth it (and if I'd give her a kidney then what was a couple of hundred dollars?). But most important, she almost always kept her promises to me so this was unusual driven by bad circumstances. And therefore I told her not to worry about it and I let it go completely and in this case I'd loan her the money again if I had it. (If she made a habit of it then I'd stop loaning her money that I wasn't willing to give away. Being forgiving doesn't mean failing to learn from the past, though there are people who want us to think so in order to harm us with us obligated to forgive them for it.)

But in other cases it's not a clean slate. I forgave my parents some things but that was strictly for my own peace of mind. It helped that they no longer had any real power over me (and forgiveness meant liberating myself from the last real power they had to hurt me), but if that weren't the case then the anger could help create necessary change. Anger is a good thing sometimes, but one that has both healthy and unhealthy manifestations (like every other emotion, including love). But once the anger is no longer useful then it's best to let it go as it can otherwise ruin your mental and physical health as well as poison other relationships. In my parents case learning of how they came to be the people they are also helped a lot...and I didn't become vulnerable for letting go of the past and viewing them with some compassion, I still see their flaws very clearly and I take every precaution I can against further abuse, though with the same emotions I lock the door with.

posted September 01, 2014 11:37 PM            

Done is done.

I can't think of any possible good to anyone holding a grudge would do.

posted September 02, 2014 12:42 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ellynlvx:
We all make mistakes.

Done is done.

I can't think of any possible good to anyone holding a grudge would do.

Especially if it is someone you essentially Love.

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posted September 02, 2014 02:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
There is someone I'm still working on forgiving. I continue to make progress and am hopeful that it will happen eventually (and so look forward to it for my own peace of mind, both loving & hating someone so intensely is a terrible experience, and I'm glad the hate diminishes while the love does not, though even when the hate is gone I intend to have nothing to do with the person again, ever, at least not until we're in our 70s or something). I'm so glad this is a rare experience for me, the inability to let go easily and let the water flow under the bridge.

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One of the things, and Why I talk to God

Quiet and dark weirds people out if they "see" it

posted September 02, 2014 11:45 AM            

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Originally posted by Randall:
When you think of them with no animosity and wish them well, then you have forgiven them.

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I was just going to say this. When the charge is gone, you have forgiven them, not that I do very well with it

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