posted November 13, 2014 05:40 PM            

I think it's a bad idea for me to answer this frankly and honestly given the potential for it to bite me in the butt later in a court of law. That said, I can see how this simple refusal to answer of mine is going to conjure up images in some of me walking around with an ax ready to lop off body parts if someone so much as looks at me wrong.

posted November 13, 2014 05:41 PM            

If it's not possible to move away from them, or if I am ambushed...

I dunno, maybe I become like a Rife generator? Killing off their frequency by mirroring it back to them.

At that point I am prepared to be about as violent as they are. It's foolish because I am physically tiny, but I come off like a honey badger. There have only been a few times that I've gotten like this, but to illustrate:

I was in Philly for a concert with my boyfriend and a friend. We were walking down the street afterwards, minding our own business, when some teenagers fell in behind us and started heckling my friend, calling her fat. In those situations, I kinda lose my brain, I just do what has to be done. So I turned around and said as emphatically as I could, something like "GO F*** YOURSELVES!"

My boyfriend was appalled, he told me that might have knives and that he would be targeted, and I just clenched my jaw and prepared to fight these kids to the death if I had to. "Knife wounds? Who cares? They called her fat!!!"

I think anything short of that kind of determination would have encouraged them to get violent with us, but I was seething this white hot anger, and they just made some more lame insults and ran off.

So no I am not physically violent because usually I am calm and peaceful and avoid it.

And when I can't avoid it I am so insanely violent in my mind and vibes, I think it wards people off.

posted November 13, 2014 05:53 PM            

However, I do not like hitting people. I prefer to talk things out. If someone came at me first though, I would definitely engage.

posted November 13, 2014 09:39 PM            

I liked how compatible their version of it was with their metaphysical concepts easily adapted to the neopagan path I was on and had a lot of similarities shared around the world, from the tamashii of Koshinto, or Old Shintoism, to the nahuali ("shadow soul") of the Aztec tradition and has parallels in neo-pagan (such as wights of Asatru/Vanatru) and shamanic traditions around the world.

I also liked Shugendo because it meshed with my desire to remain fairly invisible, but also because it put the trials of life in perspective and gave me stuff I could USE rather than just "have faith that it will all work out for the best" or that old BS of "God won't give you challenges that you can't handle" (convenient that the countless people who were overwhelmed by challenges typically aren't still around to give an alternate viewpoint).

In terms of violence it's generally seen as a last resort yet one must be able to recognize when the last resort is all that will do from the very beginning (with warning against being arbitrary due to one's own personal biases). It's also about learning to put aside fairness and kindness to those who mean you harm and develop intensity and ferocity when necessary in order to have the courage and the fighting spirit needed to survive yet not to confuse this trained and refined courage with the chaos and disharmony of rage and casual violence. And that sometimes one should be as invisible as air and gently flowing as a stream but there were moments when the only way to restore or maintain harmony was with the violent force of a gale or tidal wave.

I think it's difficult for many to understand because they like to see dualistic concepts as incompatible with each other rather than part of each other (with at least a little of one also present in the other). And wanting to believe in a loving creator or natural order that shares our biases is much more appealing than a paradigm in which one has to be careful and respectful and if our biases screw up the harmony then we can expect to suffer needlessly...the latter paradigm that also says humanity must learn to live with nature and each other rather than dominate it, something that offends the ego of all too many.

Furthermore, it was to realize (much like in some types of Asatru and Vanatru) that suffering exists to build strength, anguish to stoke courage, fear to foster cunning, and otherwise benefit from the harshness of the world...and to be glad for it for without suffering and loss then there would be passion, gratitude, or personal strength of will, and thus no life worth living as one would become hollow with no reason to strive or care. When one makes peace with the suffering in the world without being overwhelmed by it then one can know happiness and gratitude unknown to many people who feel at the mercy of the world, or even those who have been spared serious testing by it and thus take many good things for granted rather than properly grateful for them (to the point that it's been noted that the poor peasants often felt joy at feasts while kings were typically jaded by the same and thus felt less happiness than the ones he ruled). And that had a lot of meaning for me given my own background in which I couldn't entertain pipe dreams.

And sometimes that means violence, even when one doesn't want to, and other times it means refraining no matter how much one doesn't want to. The world (and world beyond) is a test and we're not always going to "pass" the tests (though hopefully we can learn from it as the tests aren't something "you pass and graduate from school" but rather adapt to what is), and that takes awareness of action and reaction, of one's self and everyone (and everything) around the person, and to experience a type of detachment that was two-way, that is it reserved arbitrary moral judgment on one's self as much as everyone else and focused on dealing with the world as it is rather than as it should be, the end result being one could make peace with the real world rather than pretending to live in an ideal world. Harmony is the goal more than transcendence, and it takes into account that people learn to move and act poorly from a young age that becomes habit, and habit must be relearned...and that thoughts are as much habit as are actions (and thought and action flow together). Peace and forgiveness have their value, but just like violence they can do more harm than good when applied at the wrong time.

posted November 14, 2014 01:56 AM            

All I know is I'd never experienced violence on an extreme level but yes I would've retaliated if I was physically able to (or had a weapon, or was better trained in self-defense, etc.).

It was senseless violence and that's what threw me off the most. Also knowing I had the capacity to act just as viciously if given the chance/right circumstances...

posted November 14, 2014 02:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
Yet knowing that I still have less respect for people who give in to those impulses whenever they feel like it.

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This is an example of how I think our backgrounds make it difficult to understand each other. When you say that I think of my best friend who was tortured and raped to death, sometimes in gang rape, by a pimp and his thugs until they accidentally shot her up with too much of a drug they were trying to get her hooked on, and then dumped her body in a tramp camp known for its junkies. I don't see how any could have respected her for her lack of fighting. The only thing I can feel for her is pity along with horror at her fate devoid of any moral victory.

I fought back (including in using 2 butterfly knives on the man trying to drag me into a car) and didn't face the same fate.

Likewise, another girl in our krew learned she HAD to be violent and she, too, escaped the same fate (though she'd endured similar horrors before running away from her "home"). She could be something of a psycho, but had I saw nearly all adults as monsters as she did I might have been the same since monsters SHOULD be treated as such (and the constant fear would generate constant anger). Before any condemn her keep in mind she had far more abuse than any who have shared their horrid stories here (that definitely includes me) and what she did was no different (and done with more justification given the systematic oppression & abuse) than the people here who hate everyone of a certain placement because of one or two individuals who shared them so I'm willing to cut the traumatized 14-year-old some slack. While I don't respect her sometimes impulsive violence I still see it as preferable to my best friend of the time who never fought back. And when my best friend was kidnapped the 14-year-old psycho was one of those who was going to help us get her back (and then us to LA), something I was grateful for.

Another helping me was a former prisoner of the pimp who described the torture she endured and showed me the bullet scar on her leg from where the pimp had shot her in the leg with a .22 to teach her not to run...that was after the first time she escaped only to get busted and have goons of the pimp waiting for her when she was released from jail (meaning a deputy let the pimp know, they may have even arranged her release for her pimp's convenience). This did not break her, she got away and helped others to get away and did so in defiance of crooked cops and violent thugs, and she resorted to violence when she had to. HER I respect...and though she endured much of the same abuse that killed my friend I can even admire her for having the strength to rise above it rather than pity her as I do my dead friend.

I'm sure you're referring to something quite different.

posted November 14, 2014 06:33 AM            

Well,
Before I say anything. I've never gotten in trouble for anything of the sort. I just thought maybe I ought to throw that out there.

Generally if I'm asaulted. Even THEN, because it's happened, I may quietly leave anyway. It depends.
It's very situational. In some cases if I'm angry enough I will. I have in a few occasions but I'm guessing the other people must have felt that maybe they deserved it because nothing was said. One guy came out to apologize to ME. lol
It takes a lot, but I will.

Or, my stupid neighbors. They've been loud allllll through the night for MONTHS! I've banged on the floor many many times. We've called the office, emailed the office, called the police. They're finally a bit quieter but I moved our bedroom to another bedroom to help.
Before that... In the few weeks leading to me moving our room. IF I didn't care about the consequences I'd have EASILY gone down there and pimp slapped the f**********k out of them.
As it was it was really hard not to go verbally explode on them.
But you see, if I have a way out (moving our room), I'll take it.

posted November 14, 2014 07:38 AM            

I may do that to protect someone else.

Oh the feelings. I'm not easily provoked by women. I'm more tolerating towards them. Due to past experiences, threats and physical aggression from men make me see red though. Oh some of them think they're so tough to try n stroke their egos by trying to pick on a small girl. LOL a small part of me loves the way they look when they can't get the better of me.

But that was when I was younger. Now I don't like to engage in such problematic situations. Unless it's extreme, I don't go apeshit. It's childish and stupid to feed the ego and not knowing how to harness strength and anger.

posted November 14, 2014 07:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
Maybe that's convenient because I'm a girl, but I don't really think so considering I *could* have fought dirty using other means (law enforcement..)

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I respect your intelligence and know you must've had a good reason for not contacting law enforcement. However with the few details I have, I don't quite understand: if someone broke the law and was violent against you, why would it be fighting "dirty" to contact the police?

posted November 14, 2014 08:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I don't know how many have heard of Shugendo

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Never heard of it but it sounds interesting...will have to look into it more because the Wiki page is kind of sparse.

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I also liked Shugendo because it meshed with my desire to remain fairly invisible, but also because it put the trials of life in perspective and gave me stuff I could USE rather than just "have faith that it will all work out for the best" or that old BS of "God won't give you challenges that you can't handle" (convenient that the countless people who were overwhelmed by challenges typically aren't still around to give an alternate viewpoint).

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^

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
It's also about learning to put aside fairness and kindness to those who mean you harm and develop intensity and ferocity when necessary in order to have the courage and the fighting spirit needed to survive yet not to confuse this trained and refined courage with the chaos and disharmony of rage and casual violence. And that sometimes one should be as invisible as air and gently flowing as a stream but there were moments when the only way to restore or maintain harmony was with the violent force of a gale or tidal wave.

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^^ I like it. My personality is naturally inclined in this direction, I think.

posted November 14, 2014 09:38 AM            

In general, I've never been in a "fight" fight. Well, my friends went to "battle" this girl(SMH) over twitter trash talk and I was dragged along. They didn't jump her so no dirty tactics but I was just there watching as did the party that came with the girl they were battling. I didn't know these people at all so this was all new relational and spatial territory for me. One of the girls, from the other side, start taunting and clapping at our faces and cussing us out. She came to me and tried intimidating me, I told her to back off and not to talk to me. She pushed me, I pushed her back really hard. Before I knew it, I got a nasty jab on my jaw area and I fell on the floor. I have never screamed so loud. I tried to get at her but she was way too far and being shielded by her other friends. The cops came... Mind you, I had known my "friends" for only a few months and was relatively new to the U.S (lived here as a kid for a couple of years but still). My two "friends" whose fight it was, RAN AWAY!!! And me and this other friend had to deal with the cops along with the other girls. Thankfully no arrests because we lied and said it was verbal. Cops said neighbors complained saying they heard very loud screaming. I knew that was me... She punched me so hard that, for two weeks, my jaw kept clicking every time I moved it. I had a cut on it too but believe it or not, I didn't feel the pain of the punch. At all. I was too emotionally worked up for that.

Like Faith said, when I get angry and feel threatened I start to project a very powerful, intimidating energy and it's very verbal. I don't like to get into fights, that was my first and last thus far. But getting hit means hitting back. That's it. As for what I said about taking a beating, this is extreme and highly hypothetical. I've fantasized about it a lot, because I know that I can be extremely manipulative and cunning when I feel like messing with someone. I would take physical pain any day to see someone suffer a fate whose detriment is far more tremendous than bruises and cuts. Again, this is extreme. I'm not a fan of violence whatsoever but I'm just letting out my thoughts here.

Faith, I think it is a Pisces thing to mirror the threat and I think it even works on a very intuitive/telepathic level. For us, to be is definitely not to perceive. I remember once, after a night of aimless clubbing, we were heading back to my friends car (we were a bunch of girls) and a group of shady-looking, drunk, thirsty gang of guys were following us. My friends were annoyed and scared and tried to just ignore them. The negative energy I felt from their end was overwhelmingly powerful. All my friends got into the car and locked it and I was outside. They slowly approaching and I just started cussing at them, screaming, yelling, and intimidating them. They didn't do anything but walk towards us in that shady way that they did but their approach was endowed with a heaviness that I couldn't but intuit and respond to. I hissed and growled and eventually they left because they probably thought I was way too crazy for their liking. One of them was persistent and stole my friends phone. Cops were involved and drama... I resort to non-physical intimidation tactics but if it ever got physical again. It's going down. Also, @ the honey badger comment. SO FUNNY!

@FireMoon... You certainly have your reasons for why you didn't call the police, but, just like what PixieJane said, not fighting back or taking the necessary measures to make sure someone gets what they deserve can land you dead. I'd have called the cops like it's no one's business. So that by the time he committed the crime that landed him, he'd have served even longer. Some people just don't deserve to be let off the hook... It's your choice to not resort to violence but I'm gonna have to agree with Faith here. Anyway, I'm glad you're okay. You too Pixie!

@ikja Our views are exactly the same. As a Gem Moon, I find it very very very hard not to respond verbally to rude or annoying remarks. 2 weeks ago I went off on a bunch of guys who were BLATANTLY and LOUDLY commenting on my a$$ in front of 7-eleven. I yelled at them and shamed them but they just laughed. I thought laugh on you crusty losers but I know they felt like bums when they saw me get into my nice car as they raggedly stood in front of their run down 1987 Camry. This isn't about possessions, but don't nastily "holla" at and try to demean a girl who is far more respectable and successful than you are. Finito.

@DF Good morning! You know, I find this funny because, thanks to my brothers (who were always throwing parties and being obnoxious at 5AM), we've had cops and neighbors banging and complaints like no tomorrow. It was really annoying for me, even, to be a part of it because I hated every bit of their f*ckery but had no choice but to leave the house (which I did most of the time) or deal with it. Once I went ape and my brother started cussing at me LOL. It's funny to think that, in some alternate universe, we could have been the neighbors you complained about

But I agree with you, that kind of thing is unbearable. I had to love amidst it, it's intolerable.

"IF I didn't care about...etc" How Virgo! But yeah, I can imagine it was all kinds of bloody mess in your head.

posted November 14, 2014 10:38 AM            

I think it's mars 12. It sits and sits then when it blows... BOOOOOOM!

I don't talk to this person any more, but I have since and we're on ok terms. We don't hate each other or anything.

posted November 14, 2014 11:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I think it's mars 12. It sits and sits then when it blows... BOOOOOOM!

True. I think if I ever got violent it would just be the wrong person at the wrong time, or if I get tired of arguing. Not that I get violent every time I argue - I never have - but sometimes I can feel it trying to push through and I have to control the impulse.

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posted November 14, 2014 01:18 PM            

Most important thing, after all, is that it's not your nature to do so. Your fierceness would suggest otherwise But, you are Mercurial so...

posted November 14, 2014 01:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Yes I do relate! Plus it's conjunct asc.
Anyway... I'll give the floor up now.

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posted November 14, 2014 02:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PisceanDream:
Pluto on the ASC is the intimidation factor for sure. It's impressing how quickly you respond sometimes! Diligent little Virgo innit

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