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Author Topic:   Shake it off? Not so easy for people with depression, new brain research suggests
teasel
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posted March 19, 2015 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The brains of healthy individuals (left column) released natural opioids during social rejection (colored spots) that may help to reduce negative emotions associated with rejection. In contrast, study participants with depression (right …more
Rejected by a person you like? Just "shake it off" and move on, as music star Taylor Swift says.

But while that might work for many people, it may not be so easy for those with untreated depression, a new brain study finds.
The pain of social rejection lasts longer for them—and their brain cells release less of a natural pain and stress-reducing chemical called natural opioids, researchers report in the journal Molecular Psychiatry.
The findings were made in depressed and non-depressed people using specialized brain-scanning technology and a simulated online dating scenario. The research sheds new light on how the brain's pain-response mechanism, called the opioid system, differs in people with depression.

On the flip side, when someone they're interested in likes them back, depressed people do feel relatively better—but only momentarily. This may also be explained by differences in their opioid system compared to non-depressed people, according to the new results.

Further research could lead to a better understanding of how to boost the opioid response in depressed individuals to reduce the exaggerated effect of social stress, and to increase the benefits of positive social interactions.

Natural painkillers


A team from the University of Michigan Medical School, Stony Brook University and the University of Illinois at Chicago worked together on the study, which builds on previous work about social rejection in non-depressed people.

"Every day we experience positive and negative social interactions. Our findings suggest that a depressed person's ability to regulate emotions during these interactions is compromised, potentially because of an altered opioid system. This may be one reason for depression's tendency to linger or return, especially in a negative social environment," says lead author David Hsu, Ph.D., formerly of U-M and now at Stony Brook. "This builds on our growing understanding that the brain's opioid system may help an individual feel better after negative social interactions, and sustain good feelings after positive social interactions."

The researchers focused on the mu-opioid receptor system in the brain - the same system that they have studied for years in relation to response to physical pain. During physical pain, our brains release opioids to dampen pain signals.

The new work shows that this same system is associated with an individual's ability to withstand social stress - and to positively respond to positive social interactions, says senior author Jon-Kar Zubieta, M.D., Ph.D.
"Social stressors are important factors that precipitate or worsen illnesses such as depression, anxiety and other neuropsychiatric conditions. This study examined mechanisms that are involved in the suppression of those stress responses," he says. "The findings suggest novel potential targets for medication development that directly or indirectly target these circuits, and biological factors that affect variation between individuals in recovery from this otherwise chronic and disabling illness." Zubieta is a member of U-M's Molecular and Behavioral Neuroscience Institute, and the Phil F. Jenkins Research Professor of Depression in the Department of Psychiatry.

The new findings have already prompted the team to plan follow-up studies to test individuals who are more sensitive to social stress and vulnerable to disorders such as social anxiety and depression, and to test ways of boosting the opioid response.
"Of course, everyone responds differently to their social environment," says Hsu. "To help us understand who is most affected by social stressors, we're planning to investigate the influence of genes, personality, and the environment on the brain's ability to release opioids during rejection and acceptance."
Scanning the brain - and finding surprises
The research used an imaging technique called positron emission tomography, or PET. U-M has a PET scanner devoted to research - and a particle accelerator to make the short-lived radioactive elements that enable PET scans to track specific brain activity. The depressed individuals all met criteria for major depressive disorder, and none was taking medication for the condition.
Before having their brains scanned, the 17 depressed participants and 18 similar but non-depressed participants each viewed photos and profiles of hundreds of other adults. Each person selected profiles of people they were most interested in romantically - similar to online dating.

During the brain scan, participants were informed that the individuals they found attractive and interesting were not interested in them. PET scans made during these moments of rejection showed both the amount and location of opioid release, measured by looking at the availability of mu-opioid receptors on brain cells. The depressed individuals showed reduced opioid release in brain regions regulating stress, mood and motivation.

During social acceptance when participants were informed that people liked them back, both depressed and non-depressed individuals reported feeling happy and accepted. This surprised the researchers, says Hsu, because depression's symptoms often include a dulled response to positive events that should be enjoyable. However, the positive feeling in depressed individuals disappeared quickly after the period of social acceptance had ended, and may be related to altered opioid responses.

But only non-depressed people went on to report feeling motivated to connect socially with other people. That feeling was accompanied by the release of opioids in a brain area called the nucleus accumbens—a structure involved in reward and positive emotions.

The researchers had actually informed participants ahead of time that the "dating" profiles were not real, and neither was the "rejection" or "acceptance." Nonetheless, the simulated online dating scenario was enough to cause both an emotional and opioid response. Before the end of the visit, staff gave depressed participants information on treatment resources.

"We enrolled almost all of these subjects in a subsequent treatment study - which allows us to capture additional information about how these opioid changes to acceptance and rejection may relate to success or failure of our standard treatments" says study co-investigator Scott Langenecker, formerly at U-M and now at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

He adds, "We expect work of this type to highlight different subtypes of depression, where distinct brain systems may be affected in different ways, requiring us to measure and target these networks by developing new and innovative treatments."

Explore further: Scientist finds higher opioid doses associated with increase in depression: http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-02-scientist-higher-opioid-doses-depression.html#inlRlv
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-02-easy-people-depression-brain.html

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Randall
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posted April 02, 2015 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting.

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Ami Anne
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posted April 02, 2015 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Shake it off" is sooo stupid.

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teasel
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posted November 20, 2015 03:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm reading the book "Dog Medicine" and am amazed by certain parallels between the author's experiences, and mine - especially with her brother (that was a lot like what I've experienced with my sister). She was told by a therapist, that what she dealt with qualified as "sibling abuse".

I will never allow someone to shame me about my feelings in regards to my sister, or what I've been through. It happened recently, and I won't accept that sort of treatment from anyone. What I experienced (and still occasionally experience) happened, and I'm still trying to recover. I'm not sure that will ever be possible. Not fully.

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Ami Anne
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posted November 20, 2015 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The more I do heal( and it is sooo slow), the more I see that people cannot, cannot help where they are. It is not a choice to be in emotional pain/problems

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aquaguy91
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posted November 20, 2015 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am taking a psychology class this semester and I have learned a lot of things that reinforced beliefs I have had for a long time. Just recently we were in the chapter on learning. In this chapter we learned about how people tend to repeat behaviors that result in positive outcomes or rewards and discontinue behaviors that result in negative outcomes. The second part ties into "fear based learning" where you learn to avoid negative things. So if a person experiences social rejection they will avoid socializing and have a lot of anxiety in social situations. In my case I have been rejected by women a lot and I am extremely gun shy about approaching women. I used to be more open with women but I have been rejected by women in every way you can imagine and it has left me scarred. It has gotten to the point where just being around women makes me feel a little uncomfortable because I associate them with rejection. Psychology just reinforces my belief that my anxiety about approaching and socializing with women is natural when doofuses have been trying to tell me I'm just a p*Ssy. They say "Just be confident Dude!" Or "just talk to her dude!" Or "You're just being a wuss dude!". These people fail to understand that I can't just unlearn and forget all of my past experiences with women. This is why I get irritated when I hear people tell a man to "just be confident!". How is a man supposed to carry himself with confidence around a woman when he has experienced nothing but rejection from women?

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted November 20, 2015 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AQ91,

A man doesn't have to derive any aspect of his self esteem from anybody, including any woman. It's not healthy to base your self worth on someone else. We have unique gifts. You and I can go through life talking to no one else because we have ourselves to talk to. We don't need to have the affection and admiration from anyone else besides God.

I guess I am way too egotistical because I don't approach women. They want to talk to me, they come to me. Otherwise, like everyone else, I don't have the time or energy to waste. And if anyone doesn't like what I have to say.... lol

Regarding the thread in Astro 2.0, of course there is a double standard. That goes without saying.

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DopGang
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posted November 20, 2015 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DopGang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^^^
That could be word for word what I'd say.
Obviously I agree 100%.

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Ami Anne
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posted November 20, 2015 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AG

You are totally right!

That is the same as people telling me to just get over my mother.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted November 20, 2015 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DopGang:
^^^
That could be word for word what I'd say.
Obviously I agree 100%.

You couldn't possibly be a man, can you? Just enquiring.

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DopGang
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posted November 20, 2015 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DopGang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes

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aquaguy91
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posted November 20, 2015 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guys,
C'mon now. Everyone (unless you are a Schizoid or psychopath) has an inborn desire to be part of the group. Now, some feel this desire more strongly than others but pretty much everyone feels this desire. If people didn't need validation from others you wouldn't see people that are social outcasts committing suicide, lashing out at society, joining gangs etc. I recently read how prisoners in max security prisons go batshit crazy from never socializing. They bang their heads against the wall, poke their eyes out, rub **** on their bodies etc. This is what loneliness and social rejection does to people. The moral of the story is it isn't healthy and it affects people. I also read that our closest relative, the chimp, exhibits similar behaviors. Lower status male chimps that are exiled from the group will turn violent against their group.

I, myself, am a relatively independent person. I am content to spend a lot of time by myself. In fact, I spend most of my time by myself these days but I am lucky enough to have a great group of friends that have my back and would do anything for me if I asked. We just don't get to hang out much because we are all busy doing our own thing but when we do hang out its always a blast, its quality over quantity. However, I have struggled to connect with women and this is something that bothers me. I have had other guys say "you don't need a woman" and the funny thing is these guys are almost always dating someone at the time they say this. So if dating and relationships aren't important to them why aren't they putting their money where their mouth is and willingly staying single? I don't know any guys my age (and I'm being 100% serious) that willingly stay single and celibate for long periods of time. Most guys would rather be in miserable relationships with women they aren't attracted to than stay single more than a few months. I am not one of those guys. I have some standards and won't date just anybody. And most of the time I'm content to be single and do my own thing but I do get lonely quite a bit and I think about how it would be nice to just spend time with a woman that I vibe with. That almost never happens for me and it makes me feel like I have that little something that is missing from my life.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted November 20, 2015 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In that case, I'm a proud Schizoid. Throw me onto a beach somewhere by myself with lots of food and I'm very happy. Don't blame me. I'm aspie. Lol

If I'm mentally unhealthy, then I am happily mentally unhealthy. Give me a pair of proper headphones and my phone and I'm happy as a clam.

I didn't stay single because someone came up to me to talk. I didn't say that I was celibate, or would have remained celibate, but there are ways of taking care of yourself if you don't have social contact.

You just feel left out. Don't feel so bad about it.

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aquaguy91
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posted November 20, 2015 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
In that case, I'm a proud Schizoid. Throw me onto a beach somewhere by myself with lots of food and I'm very happy. Don't blame me. I'm aspie. Lol

If I'm mentally unhealthy, then I am happily mentally unhealthy. Give me a pair of proper headphones and my phone and I'm happy as a clam.

I didn't stay single because someone came up to me to talk. I didn't say that I was celibate, or would have remained celibate, but there are ways of taking care of yourself if you don't have social contact.

You just feel left out. Don't feel so bad about it.



I'm also aspie,
What's the point? Go to an aspie online forum and you'll see that there's a whole slew of aspies that desire to have more of a social and dating life and they aren't happy about their situation. Ok, so your wife came and talked to you, big deal. If you were completely content to be alone and "happy as a clam" by yourself you would have told her to buzz off. But you didn't. You didn't because you wanted to have a wife. So you are not the lone ranger you make yourself out to be. No need to posture, this is an online forum. I guess I'm just fundamentally incompatible with most people because I do not have an ego in that way and never have.

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DopGang
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posted November 20, 2015 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DopGang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One can be OK being alone or OK being with someone else without strongly preferring either one.

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aquaguy91
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posted November 20, 2015 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DopGang:
One can be OK being alone or OK being with someone else without strongly preferring either one.

Ok Joe Cool.... Whatever you say.

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DopGang
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posted November 20, 2015 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DopGang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's true. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it untrue.
No need to get rude about it.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted November 23, 2015 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And surely, the first step to being more socially adept is to get rid of that defeatist and depressive attitude. That's doing you no favors. I'm not being patronizing. I'm just trying to help, whether you believe it or not.

Another way to not be in your predicament is to not hang out with others in your predicament. Misery loves company and those other esteemed individuals are also not doing you any favors.

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Soltze
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posted November 23, 2015 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Soltze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like being alone 95% of the time. I get sick of social situations pretty fast. I need time with friends and romantic partners in very small amounts. If not much better being isolated honestly.

About depression. You can't repress the feelings aka "shake it off". But we can learn to use our minds to throw a different light in situations. The feelings of sadness and anxiety are still there but rejecting the negative toughts makes it better.

As in trying to make "positive scenarios" on people's motives other than horror movies. Easier said than done, I admit it.

It keeps me functional and that's a victory right there.

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4lifephrases
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posted November 25, 2015 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 4lifephrases     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How do you cure depression ?
How do you know you are in one ?
How do you know what is causing it ?

[img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4a/2d/5c/4a2d5cff7c1f67da4ecff480d02609ca.jpg [/img]

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