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Author
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Topic: Some thoughts...
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12muddy
Knowflake Posts: 2264
From:
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted July 31, 2015 09:01 AM
  
A few days ago I read about the killing of Cecil the lion and I felt the same anger that many people feel. But after that it gave me a few thoughts. Why do I get angry over this, and still eat meat, when the two things are pretty similar? That person paid money to kill a lion, I pay money to buy flesh of dead animals. He hunts for pleasure, I enjoy the flavor of meat. Not different at all. I think that vegetarian diet doesn't provide sufficient nutrition. I've done some research but found conflicting information, so I'm not well informed. A little research brings up information about lions being farmed for sport hunting.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jun/03/canned-hunting-lions-bred-slaughter
Hmm...
Please share your thoughts. And may I ask, would you give up meat if you are not required to eat it to stay healthy? And if vegetables are available and affordable?
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Faith
Knowflake Posts: 11921
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted July 31, 2015 09:18 AM
I don't eat a lot of meat. I could easily live without it. I don't like handling meat, looking at it, touching it, or thinking about it. I do these things but hate it. The meat I buy in the store is almost always organic, grass-fed, humanely raised meat. But we also eat at standard restaurants, which are gross, and the mistreatment of those animals is an abomination. I agree with you that if people are outraged about Cecil but still eating meat, perhaps it's because we aren't seeing a clear picture in our minds of the inner workings of the slaughterhouse. Out of sight, out of mind. I'd rather hang out with cows, talking to them, than eat a hamburger, any day. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 63654
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted July 31, 2015 09:23 AM
There is killing for survival and I think that is Ok but I think killing for sport is HORRIBLE!------------------
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teasel
Knowflake Posts: 7193
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 31, 2015 10:11 AM
I need collagen and gelatin, for my stomach. I make chicken broth, because it has helped a really bad stomach condition, that has had me throwing up almost everything since the beginning of 2010. I feel bad doing it, though. I hate that this is the only way that I've been able to get a handle on it. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 55503
From: Saturn next to Charmaine
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 31, 2015 10:40 AM
I still eat meat, and I feel guilty about it. Factory farming is an atrocity. No living creature should suffer the conditions those animals endure. I also find hunting to be deplorable. And they call that a sport?IP: Logged |
Catalina
Knowflake Posts: 3257
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted July 31, 2015 01:26 PM
Cleve Baxter showed that plants also have feelings. So, any breathtarian candidates here? There is a vast difference between hunting for sport and discarding the meat..and hunting for food. Factory farms and animal torture are unnecessary too. There is also a vast difference between shooting people in self defense and shooting out of hate/sport...which some people can't distinguish either. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 63654
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted July 31, 2015 02:23 PM
My aloes are like people to me. They are so amazing and strong. You can feel their presence and it is very comforting. Some are really big like 4-5 feet tall------------------
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hannaramaa
Moderator Posts: 10156
From:
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted July 31, 2015 03:59 PM
We eat meat as a way of survival whereas killing an endangered species for sport is completely different. Also, we are not eating meat of an endangered species (of course it's possible but on average - no.) Therefore it's reasonable to be angry he killed Cecil, ESP given his history of poaching animals. I like meat a lot but I could give it up, and due to some digestive issues I will have to for some time until I can incorporate it in my diet again. Vegetables are pretty affordable imo. The amount of vegetavles it takes to make a salad or broth, a casserole, or whathaveyou would be equal to a McDonald's meal (a combo item, so excluding the dollar menu). IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 6719
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted July 31, 2015 04:11 PM
I see a big difference. For one, enjoying the taste of bacon is a hell of a lot different from enjoying the blood, terror, and squeals of a pig as you butcher it (especially if it takes you over a day to go it). It would also be different if you targeted a pig who was a pet or beloved of many people to get your bacon. There are other issues as well.I hate what was done to Cecil because it was an abuse of trust, and it also overlooked that Cecil was, more or less, a pet rather than a wild animal, so this wasn't just a crime against a lion who had come to trust humans, but also against a great many humans. Cecil's death was still far preferable to that of factory farms (I love the quote of a master vampire in Buffy that, as he introduces the first factory farm in which humans are the livestock, goes, "Hunt and kill, hunt and kill. Titillating? Yes. Practical? Hardly. Meanwhile, the humans, with their plebeian minds, have brought us a truly demonic concept. Mass production!"). But then so are the death of gazelles that lions start to eat while the gazelle is still alive (though usually lions will kill them first). But farmers, hunters, and the like vary wildly on their practices, motivations, ethics, standards and the like, far too much to sum up in a bumper sticker. They're not all the same. But I have wondered about animal cruelty laws, they do seem ultimately to be arbitrary. I got to wondering when a measure came up in California which described a horrid practice in the transport of livestock that while brutally efficient was terrible for the livestock and was so bad that I wondered why laws against animal cruelty weren't levied against the farmers and ranchers who engaged in it, but apparently when it's a business it's different (you might be surprised how often this is the case, even felony child abuse can become acceptable if it's presented in a business format, that is what would land you in prison to do to a child becomes legal if you pay someone else to do it for you). So a specific law was needed to address the practice. But of course that got me to wondering many things, like some would say even the most benevolent ranching practices are animal cruelty (and that leads into many other aspects but I'm not in the mood to post an essay). Likewise, I believe it's a crime to sacrifice an animal in Texas for any observance whatsoever, but you'll never see someone prosecuted for Thanksgiving even if they kill their own turkeys for it. IP: Logged |
DopGang
Knowflake Posts: 398
From: <--------- over there.
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted July 31, 2015 06:29 PM
I eat LOTS of meat.
While I absolutely see where you're coming from, especially to imagine how much meat gets thrown out from families and even more from restaurants.
In the end though I don't feel bad about it. If the animal will be consumed then I see it as ok. Yes, it's killing, but nature does that as well.
The lion, Cecil, that so many are upset about (including myself), killed and ate other animals himself. PLUS, male Lions will kill other lions (sometimes) and cubs that are not theirs. Actually I saw a group of female lions kill another female that became trapped behind enemy lines of another pride. Lions also kill Hyenas and even when the lion is very hungry, it's extremely rare that they'll eat one. They kill them and leave them. They'll rarely do this with cheetahs and other animals. Kill not to eat, but because they are competition. That's just lions! LOL If nature is working in this way then I have no problem eating a lovely cow.  IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 5865
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted July 31, 2015 08:14 PM
quote:
Why do I get angry over this, and still eat meat, when the two things are pretty similar?
I don't eat meat.
To be honest - if I still did eat meat today... I would stop after this event.
So maybe that's something for you to consider. quote:
I think that vegetarian diet doesn't provide sufficient nutrition. I've done some research but found conflicting information, so I'm not well informed.
Not true. A vegan diet is more challenging. But you will be perfectly fine on a vegetarian diet.
Have you read Linda Goodman's book - "Star Signs"?
She discusses veganism.. and the way she believes is best for people to become vegetarian.
As I remember - she mentions doing this in stages. At the first stage - you should give up just red meat (for five years).. then give up fish and poultry as well (another five years).. then eventually become vegan. Even if you do not turn vegetarian overnight - simply giving up *red meat* - and sticking to chicken and fish - will in NO way adversely affect your health. If anything you health will be considerably improved. quote:
would you give up meat if you are not required to eat it to stay healthy?
It's absolutely NOT required to stay healthy.
This is a complete myth.
http://www.ecorazzi.com/2013/12/02/joaquin-phoenix-tells-story-of-becoming-vegan- at-age-three :edit:
List of vegetarians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetarians ^ There are many athletes and other perfectly healthy people on that list. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 5865
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted July 31, 2015 08:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I see a big difference. For one, enjoying the taste of bacon is a hell of a lot different from enjoying the blood, terror, and squeals of a pig as you butcher it (especially if it takes you over a day to go it). It would also be different if you targeted a pig who was a pet or beloved of many people to get your bacon. There are other issues as well.I hate what was done to Cecil because it was an abuse of trust, and it also overlooked that Cecil was, more or less, a pet rather than a wild animal, so this wasn't just a crime against a lion who had come to trust humans, but also against a great many humans. Cecil's death was still far preferable to that of factory farms (I love the quote of a master vampire in Buffy that, as he introduces the first factory farm in which humans are the livestock, goes, "Hunt and kill, hunt and kill. Titillating? Yes. Practical? Hardly. Meanwhile, the humans, with their plebeian minds, have brought us a truly demonic concept. Mass production!"). But then so are the death of gazelles that lions start to eat while the gazelle is still alive (though usually lions will kill them first). But farmers, hunters, and the like vary wildly on their practices, motivations, ethics, standards and the like, far too much to sum up in a bumper sticker. They're not all the same. But I have wondered about animal cruelty laws, they do seem ultimately to be arbitrary. I got to wondering when a measure came up in California which described a horrid practice in the transport of livestock that while brutally efficient was terrible for the livestock and was so bad that I wondered why laws against animal cruelty weren't levied against the farmers and ranchers who engaged in it, but apparently when it's a business it's different (you might be surprised how often this is the case, even felony child abuse can become acceptable if it's presented in a business format, that is what would land you in prison to do to a child becomes legal if you pay someone else to do it for you). So a specific law was needed to address the practice. But of course that got me to wondering many things, like some would say even the most benevolent ranching practices are animal cruelty (and that leads into many other aspects but I'm not in the mood to post an essay). Likewise, I believe it's a crime to sacrifice an animal in Texas for any observance whatsoever, but you'll never see someone prosecuted for Thanksgiving even if they kill their own turkeys for it.
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hannaramaa
Moderator Posts: 10156
From:
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted August 01, 2015 02:58 PM
Cecil's brother was just shot and killed! I can't believe this.IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 63654
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 01, 2015 03:16 PM
I am a vegan, basically. I eat fish when I go out. I eat eggs from my friend's chickens that he has in his back yard lol It is so cool that you can have them raw because they are so fresh I have raw cheese, once in a while but I am about 75% raw vegan. ------------------
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