posted January 12, 2016 02:37 PM            

Apparently this is one of the lessons I came here to learn, if I am to judge from my NN in the 5th in Gemini. I always craved commitment like a heroin junkie and recently someone on astro.com opened my eyes to the possibility that I may be doing that because I had it in a past life and it's not something I should be focusing on in this life (she didn't say I was with my Twin but it might be a possibility, because I miss him often and it makes sense astrologically).

I think I may have been a closeted commitment phobe all this time, but I cannot imagine, rationally, how this could work. lol My mind is so set on associating love with commitment that it feels so foreign to imagine one without the other. Plus that the 33 years of prejudice make me think that such a lifestyle would make me a skank lol. I guess I associate commitment with.. well, morals. lol Which, if you think about it, is a wrongful association, but it's how I was raised up. Good people make a commitment, those who don't are flaky and must be avoided. How the hell can I do this when I'm this conflicted?!

posted January 12, 2016 08:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Valentine:

for me love and commitment go together.

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I agree.

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Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.

posted January 12, 2016 10:32 PM            

quote:

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Why do we cheat? And why do happy people cheat? And when we say "infidelity," what exactly do we mean? Is it a hookup, a love story, paid sex, a chat room, a massage with a happy ending? Why do we think that men cheat out of boredom and fear of intimacy, but women cheat out of loneliness and hunger for intimacy? And is an affair always the end of a relationship?

For the past 10 years, I have traveled the globe and worked extensively with hundreds of couples who have been shattered by infidelity. There is one simple act of transgression that can rob a couple of their relationship, their happiness and their very identity: an affair. And yet, this extremely common act is so poorly understood. So this talk is for anyone who has ever loved.

Adultery has existed since marriage was invented, and so, too, the taboo against it. In fact, infidelity has a tenacity that marriage can only envy, so much so, that this is the only commandment that is repeated twice in the Bible: once for doing it, and once just for thinking about it. (Laughter) So how do we reconcile what is universally forbidden, yet universally practiced?

Now, throughout history, men practically had a license to cheat with little consequence, and supported by a host of biological and evolutionary theories that justified their need to roam, so the double standard is as old as adultery itself. But who knows what's really going on under the sheets there, right? Because when it comes to sex, the pressure for men is to boast and to exaggerate, but the pressure for women is to hide, minimize and deny, which isn't surprising when you consider that there are still nine countries where women can be killed for straying.

Now, monogamy used to be one person for life. Today, monogamy is one person at a time. (Laughter) (Applause)

I mean, many of you probably have said, "I am monogamous in all my relationships." (Laughter)

We used to marry, and had sex for the first time. But now we marry, and we stop having sex with others. The fact is that monogamy had nothing to do with love. Men relied on women's fidelity in order to know whose children these are, and who gets the cows when I die.

Now, everyone wants to know what percentage of people cheat. I've been asked that question since I arrived at this conference. (Laughter) It applies to you. But the definition of infidelity keeps on expanding: sexting, watching porn, staying secretly active on dating apps. So because there is no universally agreed-upon definition of what even constitutes an infidelity, estimates vary widely, from 26 percent to 75 percent. But on top of it, we are walking contradictions. So 95 percent of us will say that it is terribly wrong for our partner to lie about having an affair, but just about the same amount of us will say that that's exactly what we would do if we were having one. (Laughter)

Now, I like this definition of an affair -- it brings together the three key elements: a secretive relationship, which is the core structure of an affair; an emotional connection to one degree or another; and a sexual alchemy. And alchemy is the key word here, because the erotic frisson is such that the kiss that you only imagine giving, can be as powerful and as enchanting as hours of actual lovemaking. As Marcel Proust said, it's our imagination that is responsible for love, not the other person.

So it's never been easier to cheat, and it's never been more difficult to keep a secret. And never has infidelity exacted such a psychological toll. When marriage was an economic enterprise, infidelity threatened our economic security. But now that marriage is a romantic arrangement, infidelity threatens our emotional security. Ironically, we used to turn to adultery -- that was the space where we sought pure love. But now that we seek love in marriage, adultery destroys it.

Now, there are three ways that I think infidelity hurts differently today. We have a romantic ideal in which we turn to one person to fulfill an endless list of needs: to be my greatest lover, my best friend, the best parent, my trusted confidant, my emotional companion, my intellectual equal. And I am it: I'm chosen, I'm unique, I'm indispensable, I'm irreplaceable, I'm the one. And infidelity tells me I'm not. It is the ultimate betrayal. Infidelity shatters the grand ambition of love. But if throughout history, infidelity has always been painful, today it is often traumatic, because it threatens our sense of self.

So my patient Fernando, he's plagued. He goes on: "I thought I knew my life. I thought I knew who you were, who we were as a couple, who I was. Now, I question everything." Infidelity -- a violation of trust, a crisis of identity. "Can I ever trust you again?" he asks. "Can I ever trust anyone again?"

And this is also what my patient Heather is telling me, when she's talking to me about her story with Nick. Married, two kids. Nick just left on a business trip, and Heather is playing on his iPad with the boys, when she sees a message appear on the screen: "Can't wait to see you." Strange, she thinks, we just saw each other. And then another message: "Can't wait to hold you in my arms." And Heather realizes these are not for her. She also tells me that her father had affairs, but her mother, she found one little receipt in the pocket, and a little bit of lipstick on the collar. Heather, she goes digging, and she finds hundreds of messages, and photos exchanged and desires expressed. The vivid details of Nick's two-year affair unfold in front of her in real time, And it made me think: Affairs in the digital age are death by a thousand cuts.

But then we have another paradox that we're dealing with these days. Because of this romantic ideal, we are relying on our partner's fidelity with a unique fervor. But we also have never been more inclined to stray, and not because we have new desires today, but because we live in an era where we feel that we are entitled to pursue our desires, because this is the culture where I deserve to be happy. And if we used to divorce because we were unhappy, today we divorce because we could be happier. And if divorce carried all the shame, today, choosing to stay when you can leave is the new shame. So Heather, she can't talk to her friends because she's afraid that they will judge her for still loving Nick, and everywhere she turns, she gets the same advice: Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb. And if the situation were reversed, Nick would be in the same situation. Staying is the new shame.

So if we can divorce, why do we still have affairs? Now, the typical assumption is that if someone cheats, either there's something wrong in your relationship or wrong with you. But millions of people can't all be pathological. The logic goes like this: If you have everything you need at home, then there is no need to go looking elsewhere, assuming that there is such a thing as a perfect marriage that will inoculate us against wanderlust. But what if passion has a finite shelf life? What if there are things that even a good relationship can never provide? If even happy people cheat, what is it about?

The vast majority of people that I actually work with are not at all chronic philanderers. They are often people who are deeply monogamous in their beliefs, and at least for their partner. But they find themselves in a conflict between their values and their behavior. They often are people who have actually been faithful for decades, but one day they cross a line that they never thought they would cross, and at the risk of losing everything. But for a glimmer of what? Affairs are an act of betrayal, and they are also an expression of longing and loss. At the heart of an affair, you will often find a longing and a yearning for an emotional connection, for novelty, for freedom, for autonomy, for sexual intensity, a wish to recapture lost parts of ourselves or an attempt to bring back vitality in the face of loss and tragedy.

I'm thinking about another patient of mine, Priya, who is blissfully married, loves her husband, and would never want to hurt the man. But she also tells me that she's always done what was expected of her: good girl, good wife, good mother, taking care of her immigrant parents. Priya, she fell for the arborist who removed the tree from her yard after Hurricane Sandy. And with his truck and his tattoos, he's quite the opposite of her. But at 47, Priya's affair is about the adolescence that she never had. And her story highlights for me that when we seek the gaze of another, it isn't always our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become. And it isn't so much that we're looking for another person, as much as we are looking for another self.

Now, all over the world, there is one word that people who have affairs always tell me. They feel alive. And they often will tell me stories of recent losses -- of a parent who died, and a friend that went too soon, and bad news at the doctor. Death and mortality often live in the shadow of an affair, because they raise these questions. Is this it? Is there more? Am I going on for another 25 years like this? Will I ever feel that thing again? And it has led me to think that perhaps these questions are the ones that propel people to cross the line, and that some affairs are an attempt to beat back deadness, in an antidote to death.

And contrary to what you may think, affairs are way less about sex, and a lot more about desire: desire for attention, desire to feel special, desire to feel important. And the very structure of an affair, the fact that you can never have your lover, keeps you wanting. That in itself is a desire machine, because the incompleteness, the ambiguity, keeps you wanting that which you can't have.

Now some of you probably think that affairs don't happen in open relationships, but they do. First of all, the conversation about monogamy is not the same as the conversation about infidelity. But the fact is that it seems that even when we have the freedom to have other sexual partners, we still seem to be lured by the power of the forbidden, that if we do that which we are not supposed to do, then we feel like we are really doing what we want to. And I've also told quite a few of my patients that if they could bring into their relationships one tenth of the boldness, the imagination and the verve that they put into their affairs, they probably would never need to see me. (Laughter)

So how do we heal from an affair? Desire runs deep. Betrayal runs deep. But it can be healed. And some affairs are death knells for relationships that were already dying on the vine. But others will jolt us into new possibilities. The fact is, the majority of couples who have experienced affairs stay together. But some of them will merely survive, and others will actually be able to turn a crisis into an opportunity. They'll be able to turn this into a generative experience. And I'm actually thinking even more so for the deceived partner, who will often say, "You think I didn't want more? But I'm not the one who did it." But now that the affair is exposed, they, too, get to claim more, and they no longer have to uphold the status quo that may not have been working for them that well, either.

I've noticed that a lot of couples, in the immediate aftermath of an affair, because of this new disorder that may actually lead to a new order, will have depths of conversations with honesty and openness that they haven't had in decades. And, partners who were sexually indifferent find themselves suddenly so lustfully voracious, they don't know where it's coming from. Something about the fear of loss will rekindle desire, and make way for an entirely new kind of truth.

So when an affair is exposed, what are some of the specific things that couples can do? We know from trauma that healing begins when the perpetrator acknowledges their wrongdoing. So for the partner who had the affair, for Nick, one thing is to end the affair, but the other is the essential, important act of expressing guilt and remorse for hurting his wife. But the truth is that I have noticed that quite a lot of people who have affairs may feel terribly guilty for hurting their partner, but they don't feel guilty for the experience of the affair itself. And that distinction is important. And Nick, he needs to hold vigil for the relationship. He needs to become, for a while, the protector of the boundaries. It's his responsibility to bring it up, because if he thinks about it, he can relieve Heather from the obsession, and from having to make sure that the affair isn't forgotten, and that in itself begins to restore trust.

But for Heather, or deceived partners, it is essential to do things that bring back a sense of self-worth, to surround oneself with love and with friends and activities that give back joy and meaning and identity. But even more important, is to curb the curiosity to mine for the sordid details -- Where were you? Where did you do it? How often? Is she better than me in bed? -- questions that only inflict more pain, and keep you awake at night. And instead, switch to what I call the investigative questions, the ones that mine the meaning and the motives -- What did this affair mean for you? What were you able to express or experience there that you could no longer do with me? What was it like for you when you came home? What is it about us that you value? Are you pleased this is over?

Every affair will redefine a relationship, and every couple will determine what the legacy of the affair will be. But affairs are here to stay, and they're not going away. And the dilemmas of love and desire, they don't yield just simple answers of black and white and good and bad, and victim and perpetrator. Betrayal in a relationship comes in many forms. There are many ways that we betray our partner: with contempt, with neglect, with indifference, with violence. Sexual betrayal is only one way to hurt a partner. In other words, the victim of an affair is not always the victim of the marriage.

Now, you've listened to me, and I know what you're thinking: She has a French accent, she must be pro-affair. (Laughter) So, you're wrong. I am not French. (Laughter) (Applause) And I'm not pro-affair. But because I think that good can come out of an affair, I have often been asked this very strange question: Would I ever recommend it? Now, I would no more recommend you have an affair than I would recommend you have cancer, and yet we know that people who have been ill often talk about how their illness has yielded them a new perspective. The main question that I've been asked since I arrived at this conference when I said I would talk about infidelity is, for or against? I said, "Yes." (Laughter)

I look at affairs from a dual perspective: hurt and betrayal on one side, growth and self-discovery on the other -- what it did to you, and what it meant for me. And so when a couple comes to me in the aftermath of an affair that has been revealed, I will often tell them this: Today in the West, most of us are going to have two or three relationships or marriages, and some of us are going to do it with the same person. Your first marriage is over. Would you like to create a second one together?

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While this may not be completely on topic, I read that self-love thing you posted elsewhere on this site, and I think this topic and the different things discussed relates to your overall train of thinking lately. I think in a lot of cases, commitment relates more to security in its various forms (emotional, physical, mental, financial, those things) than it does to love. Most branches of science agree with the statement: "Monogamy has nothing to do with love." It makes sense. Who am I to disagree.

Most importantly, the whole theme of this talk is a lack of self-love, validation, and a lost sense of self. Most of my reasons for desiring commitment are selfish. What are yours? Well it may seem unrealistic, overly simplistic, or naive, if two healthy people genuinely love each other, what prevents them from being together for a long period or even forever. Shouldn't solidarity and togetherness be a natural culmination? Perhaps, we must adjust our perception of love, commitment, and infidelity, and make the first person we commit to loving be ourselves. If we did, we could become empathetic partners who could identify the potentially painful struggles behind infidelity. Whew! Is that the words of a 7th house Neptune or what?!

posted January 13, 2016 12:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
Do you think it's possible, to love without attachment, without demands, without putting a label on it?

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I know people who seemingly do. I might have even been one of them at times. It depends on how you define "demands" or "labeling."

quote:

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Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
My mind is so set on associating love with commitment that it feels so foreign to imagine one without the other. Plus that the 33 years of prejudice make me think that such a lifestyle would make me a skank lol. I guess I associate commitment with.. well, morals. lol Which, if you think about it, is a wrongful association, but it's how I was raised up. Good people make a commitment, those who don't are flaky and must be avoided. How the hell can I do this when I'm this conflicted?!

Do you think it's possible and feasible?

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Possible? Definitely. Feasible? I don't know, it probably depends on the individual (of course society complicates it, and I wonder how my grandmother's life would've been different were society different).

But try self-hypnosis. This isn't instant, it takes years, but you can change the software there. What you think and all that is a habit, and habits can be changed.

posted January 13, 2016 12:22 AM            

'Course my granny never being married who is a good person contrast with the dysfunctional marriage of my mom and dad (and the nearly lethal divorce that came of it) wouldn't help.

Pile on the other stuff like love being like crack (or "you're my own personal brand of heroin" said Edward to Bella), brain scans and such that show love as a form (one could say "imitates") of mental illness, and the most sobering to me is not "love is blind" but love blinds those affected by it (including terrible and even criminal behaviors partners have overlooked or even aided in because of love) then that also disturbs me greatly, and I want to part of it for the same reason many say they'd reject smoking crack despite the rush. At the very least, I think my dad has the right idea, where he treats it like a business, and he's more of a sugar daddy where either side can end it and it's understood--or he makes it clear anyway--that it will never lead to marriage as he won't make the same mistake twice.

Thankfully, I wasn't exposed to the internet (much) until I was 17, and even then I was far more interested in other things than love (otherwise, I might have still gone the celibacy route). For the most part (and with notable exceptions), love has been pretty good for me, though I think it helps a lot that I don't depend on romantic love for my self-worth, I can bond as deeply (if differently) with others as I do in romantic love, and not having unreasonable expectations, which helps me keep it in perspective...though I wonder if I wasn't demisexual if I'd be ABLE to keep it in perspective (and insanely attracted to those I don't already know well), and that's a scary thought, and makes me look at the people around me with pity for their inevitable suffering (as they no doubt would pity me for missing out on their highs *). I think of the bad that's happened to me, which was rare, and shudder to think if that was normal until I desperately sought out "twin flames" and such so that I'd finally get a different outcome (at least that's my impression of most seeking a twin flame, though some of what I read of twin flames make it sounds like it's more than most could handle and might be doomed to a special kind of tragedy themselves).

(*Btw, there was one guy who tried to convince others to do meth with him, and he talked how awesome it was, including how it was best to sit on the toilet because you might puke or empty your bowels while doing it, and he couldn't understand why anyone would want to reject such an awesome high! And, I'm sure, many who accidentally describe love as a hellish experience are probably much like him, wondering why any would eschew it.)

All in all, I'd think just paying close attention to the many love topics of LL would be enough to help you avoid any expectations, and I know it's not unique to LL.

That aside, here are a couple more things that may or may not be of use or interest:

Attachments and Liberation

posted January 13, 2016 03:45 AM            

DopGang, I think everyone's way of thinking is weird for some people, and understandable for others. I am sorry you didn't feel like sharing your thoughts with us.

@RFTS - thank you so much for posting that, it actually is in line with my recent line of thinking, I don't feel it's offtopic at all, and it was quite helpful!

I am currently going through a Pluto and Uranus transit, and I think especially the Uranus one is affecting me right now - it conjuncted my Sun and now it's approaching my Mercury for the 2nd time. The way I look at the world has changed SO much in the last period of time, and a lot of that had to do with my Mom's sudden death (Mercury rules my 8th) 6 months ago. Naturally, I started thinking about the meaning of life, about my own mortality and the way I want to live my life from now on. What I've discovered is that, in the end, my Mom's death has been a very liberating experience, however brutally traumatizing. I say that because for the 32 years I had her in my life I felt I couldn't be me - we had a pathological symbiotic relationship that was clearly f*cked up and messed me up in so many ways. It's not that it was all bad, but I resented the fact that I didn't seem to have an identity of my own and many of concepts I fit my life to were actually hers, not mine. The ones about love, marriage and commitment are right there at the top. It sucks that I was so easily influenced and that I am, till this day, a die-hard romantic (you have Neptune in the 7th? I have DC ruler conjunct Neptune - in the very idealistic 11th house). It hit me that I was a closeted commitment phobe (I'd be interested to read the articles you referred to, on projection, if you want to share) when I realized I only pick the relationships that were most likely to fail, from the beginning. lol Which I knew, at a less conscious level, but I guess I had to go through all that drama to prove something. I guess after 2 failed engagements and a long trail of failed monogamous relationships that lasted very little, anyone would start to question themselves. I mean, it might have been clear from the outside, but it seems I was oblivious to the fact that I must be going about it the wrong way! And at some point I had to ask myself if I even want or need to be in a relationship, because when I am actually in one I get very independent and self sufficient and need lots of me-time. But when I'm not, I crave it constantly. Yes, it sucks to be me right now, but I'll figure this out, I'm sure.

I don't think I am the type to be truly fulfilled in a traditional relationship. I guess I can finally say it out loud and accept that about myself. I can scratch it from the list, it ain't happening. But there's lots of types of unorthodox relationships too, and I have no idea which one suits me.

There are many comments I had in my mind regarding what you posted, and I also wanted to answer in detail to PJ's post, which I also appreciate very much, but right now I need to go ASAP as I have to give a presentation and need to prepare. I wanted to write as much as I could now, in this mind frame, because I know later on I'll be possessed by other thoughts and not be able to give the same reply. Just like the Buddhism reference PJ posted, no moment is ever the same. But, who knows, maybe I'll be more clear headed later on.

posted January 13, 2016 02:25 PM            

I recommend clicking on the embedded links and the "projection and interjection" link at the bottom of the page under the "see also" heading. Since you've referenced your mom, I would click on and read more about "phantasy."

Here's another two part article I like:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-in-limbo/200909/intense-sexual-chemistry-part -1

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-in-limbo/200909/intense-sexual-chemistry-part -2

You may find the info in part 1 interesting, but it's more what's in part 2 that I think may be helpful.

Here's an excerpt:

quote:

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Magnetic Infatuation


In many cases of intense chemistry there is powerful magnetism because, in addition to physical attraction, you each have some of the major positive and negative characteristics of significant people in your partner's earlier life. You will be consciously aware of the positive features, but the negative ones that also lure you will stay below radar until you get to know each other better.

Once the initial romantic blowtorch begins to cool, each partner's negative submerged characteristics become visible (typically after two or three months of dating regularly). The negative features will often be closely related to the positive qualities that initially attracted you. If partners are psychologically and emotionally mature it's a soft landing that exposes minor quirks to be modified or accepted. In the immature couple it's a crash landing. For example, confidence seems to morph into dominance or conceit. Independent spirit twists into emotional distance or selfishness. Calm reserve becomes cold withdrawal. Energy and passion turn into harsh attacks. Admiration becomes possessiveness. Now partners look at each other and wonder what they could possibly have been thinking when they were so infatuated. They were once hot. Now they're now hot and bothered.

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Now that you're thinking your relationship issues may have more to do with you than them, It may be helpful to work on whatever issues you feel you have, by examining what bothered you about your past partners and relationships and trace down those underlying issues and motives for wanting commitment.

Yes, I have Neptune in my 7th house. I too have been going through some big transits that have me reevaluating the worldview I've built. Currently, Jupiter is retrograde in my 4th house, Mercury retro in my 8th, Neptune just moved out of conjunction with my MC and is now square my Mercury, Pluto recently had the nerve to cross my moon and SN twice and is now square my Saturn, Uranus is in an almost exact sextile to my sun/ASC and opposite my Saturn, Venus is on my DSC and opposite my sun, and by the middle of the year, Saturn will be there. Yeay!!! Lol.

Hopefully, I can be back soon!

Edit: (some other info)
http://icpla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Ogden-T.H.-Instinct-Phantasy-Psycho...A-Reinterpretation-Contemporary-Psycho.-vol.20-p.500-1984.pdf

We all have a mental or psychological framework for understanding the world, but sometimes, these schemas don't support our goals and desires in life. "We must unlearn what we have learned" - yoda (lol)
http://www.aish.com/f/m/Projecting.html?mobile=yes

posted January 16, 2016 04:14 AM            

@RFTS - thank you for the links! Projection is indeed something I used to do a lot, mainly because I have a couple of oppositions in my chart and a see-saw type of chart, actually. Projecting is how I learned about myself and how I developed my tolerance and empathy about a wide range of typologies out there. I still do it, but I am more aware of it now. I know partners simply hold the mirror I look myself at but that was also a trap, because I had this unworldly dream about a transcendental love and seeing others in me, and myself in them, sucked me further into it. That's because Moon-Neptune are the apex of the wedge involving those oppositions - my escape route, the safe haven in the midst of conflict. Maybe it would've been alright if they weren't on SN, but they are and it's something I should leave behind. Can't escape conflict forever, can I?

I've been thinking a lot about the impact my Mom had in my life, prior to her death but also intensely afterwards. It only now hit me that the Moon represents the Mother and I have it on my South Node. You said you have Moon on SN too, that were recently conjuncted by Pluto. I went through that one too, my Moon is at 29 Sag, while the SN is at 28 Sag, it happened 8-10 years ago and it was the beginning of my becoming. Having Moon on SN is quite tough. I don't know how your relationship with your Mom was, but mine was very complicated, especially since she was the most important and influential person in my life. Looking back at that time, I see it snowballed my separation from the notions she imprinted on me about who I was and how I was supposed to live my life, but it happened very slowly and it's not over even though the transit ended years ago. The themes I developed opposing views about were related to the houses Moon and Neptune rule, as well as their general symbolism - for example I became agnostic even though she was very religious and brought me up in that spirit or I am very loose with money (Neptune rules my 2nd) while she was very worried about them. I am child-less while she worked with kids all her life (she was a pediatric nurse). She was always good with kids, I never was. And now it seems I am turning my back to the notion of a traditional marriage, while she stood by the side of the same man for 30+ years (and made herself, him, and above all else, me - terribly unhappy in the process). When she died and I was at her wake, the people who knew her came to greet me and told me her biggest wish for me was to see me married and with kids. And it was then I realized the reason I never married was because I didn't want to become her, even though I wasn't conscious about it. While she was alive, even though I had already developed my own sense of identity, I still felt like I had this obligation towards her, to live this life she envisioned for me. It was very hard to shake, even though I rebelled against it at times. But after she died, not immediately, but soon after, I felt a sense of relief that I no longer need to do that. That it was finally OK to be me. She never let me be myself, she did not approve. Now I am finally free to be who I choose to be and make the decisions I want.

quote:

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We all have a mental or psychological framework for understanding the world, but sometimes, these schemas don't support our goals and desires in life. "We must unlearn what we have learned" - yoda (lol)

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Exactly!

So now I am contemplating doing this regarding the notion of marriage and commitment. I am pasting something I wrote in astro.com because I think I was better able to express my thoughts there, at that time.

posted January 18, 2016 07:39 PM            

Moon in sag conjunct Neptune – agnostic, philosophical, idealistic… how appropriate. Ohh how I can relate. Where you have a Cancer DSC/Sag Moon/Neptune, I have a Sag DSC/7th house Moon/Neptune (Cap Moon / Sag Neptune, not conjunct). You have moon in the 11th, I have Venus (one of my planetary dominants). My SN ruler (Saturn/Libra) is in my 5th house square my nodes (lovely, right?!). My moon is loosely conjunct my 8th house SN (4 degrees). As you can imagine, my life too involves those themes of defining (and defending) my own individual values and needing to preserve my independence (of thought, mind, choice, body, and soul). I’m really liking agnostic existentialism. According to your placements, maybe, your lesson is about "dissolving emotionally restricting values or concepts" towards relationships... a lifelong “journey of learning” what makes you feel “secure” and finding “enjoyment and pleasure” “exploring different ideas” as you “(re)define your own unique values through intimate bonding and one on one relating…” "Pioneering or taking risks" around implementing "different ideas" about love, pleasure, and commitment… Being "creative" about it… Committing to this philosophical journey... Not looking to traditional means of relating "creating new ways instead"… Plus, this is tied in with your 2nd house sun (ego identity, life force, radiance). Sounds like much courage (Yeay Aries) and patience (Boo Aries) is needed lol. So much is said about letting go of SN behaviors, but I prefer the integration approach.

As much as I don’t like the prevailing views on marriage and relationships, in practice, I have a hard time breaking away from conventional theories. Hypocrite is the term that comes to mind. In fact, it brings to mind an excerpt from my psychological horoscope from astro.com. It goes: “You also tend toward a strange combination of democratic political views coupled with a certain aristocracy of personal behaviour. In other words, you are prone to formulating concepts of the better society which you do not actually practise at home. You are somewhat conventional…” Man, I hate that!

My mom was the complete opposite of yours. She was liberal in her relationships and as much as I have and want to continue to judge her behavior as who*eish, in theory, I don’t find it so objectionable. As far as her parenting, she was a horrible mom. At least she was according to conventional philosophies. We didn’t get along. I left home when I was 15. I wanted to be the opposite of my mom – faithful, dependable, disciplined, selfless… Then, I met my mother in law. She dedicated her whole life to her marriage, children, and responsibilities. I resented that too. Two extremes and neither appeal to me. My husband and I met in church when I was about 13, so I have that religious background too. Jupiter transiting my 4th house has me reevaluating those deeply rooted philosophies that impact my practical life - behaviors learned from childhood, psychological inheritances… At the same time, there are so many external forces against transformation and unconventional ways. All the resulting conflict is a paradox that must somehow be reconciled or maybe dissolved. lol.

For a long time, I pegged my husband as the commitment phobe, but really – It’s me! Remember this: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/225816-4.html lol. I didn’t change my last name when I got married; I refuse to identify with him. Whatever straying he did was only supported by my own unwillingness to commit. I still don’t want to commit! Feeling vulnerable, dependent, and attached is grossly unappealing, yet I continue to do it. Probably, it's out of distaste for my mom. I kinda have this idea or hope for a commitment that is liberating. Yet, in this world, those two concepts don’t really seem to fit together. There is just something very restricting about my experience and understanding of marriage that I have yet to fully understand.

posted January 19, 2016 12:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dancing Maenad:
PJ,

I can very well see where you're coming from! Your post reminded me of an article I read recently on emotional pornography - I was unfamiliar with the term, but I think I was also guilty of doing it. I think it may be one of the causes for this epidemic of romantic mishaps, the search and yearning for the ultimate relationship and twin flames. Sadly, I don't think I am one of the lucky few that can live without love or some sort of romance in my life, not with a North Node in my 5th or an unaspected Venus. But I can definitely change my approach to them and learn about love without attachment. I don't know if I am the type of person to sleep around or have FWB for the rest of my life, but I can stop chasing commitment and just lighten the F up about the whole thing. Where it leads, I have no idea, but apparently it's about the ride, not the destination.

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Interesting enough, I just came across this and thought I'd share...the immediately relevant parts are the first two and a half minutes (and that runs parallel to the "emotional porn" article which included the film academy), though it expands on the points as it goes through the list:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnWkPh7uZiw

One statement: "Our capacity to experience joy might be directly related to our capacity for grief. And the thing about these capacities is that they are in a constant state of flux, expanding the more frequently we allow ourselves to feel, and contracting the more we prevent it."

And an interesting observation he makes (from his own life): "Profound depression isn't necessarily measured by how bad you feel, but how little you feel."

And this also gives me some more insights into anime, and why it is the way it is (and why it's become so popular around the world). (And also thinking of something else to do with pop culture, but I feel it's too trivial to share, at least right now.)

posted January 23, 2016 06:12 AM            

Where I draw the line is if I have some major problem I have to be sure the other person will come for me and help me somehow...

posted February 05, 2016 09:11 PM            

At an early age, between the ages of 14 to 24, I was the epitome of romantic love. I was in search of 'the one', that other person that would join my little bubble and make the problems of the world disappear. I would love them with every fiber of my being and they would only have eyes for me as well. (Moon in Pisces, Moon sq. Neptune, Saturn in the 7th). What I didn't realize was that I had no sense of myself and was still tied to a symbiotic relationship with my mother, ie. searching for a mother counterpart in all my relationships.

Between the ages of 25-30, as I began to understand and 'know myself' beyond the expectations of others, I truly grew into my Venus in Taurus, Saturn in 7th, not as a demand or expectation on another but as a statement and realization of who I am, how I am built in this lifetime. Love and commitment is a natural understanding for me and I would need someone with a similar disposition in order to spend the rest of our lives together, but I would not be destroyed in the sense if someone I loved left me or had an affair.

Now that I'm 35+ with an even better understanding of myself and my complexities, I have a more clearer image of the unique jigsaw piece that I am. Luckily, with this awareness, I can also tell which other person will connect with me in just the right way. Through this long process we call life, the hardest thing to do is to discover and be who you are, but only with true authenticity can we have true intimacy.

posted February 05, 2016 11:59 PM            

Love is a battlefield.

If two people are committed to cheating together, is it cheating....

posted February 19, 2016 06:44 PM            

I feel like people who have a strong desire for labels - don't deal very well with the idea that they cannot control love anymore they can control time or space... or keep people in their lives forever after.

If someone wants to be with you - they will be.
And if they don't - they won't. They'll leave.

And that's quite apart from all the outter, accidental things that can happen to take them away from you - or spell "The End" of your connection.

Putting a ring on their finger or a piece of paper or the social acknowledgement that you are "together" or the FB-status change..... these are mostly terms of art from my pov.

posted February 22, 2016 01:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Well nothing lasts forever!

I feel like people who have a strong desire for labels - don't deal very well with the idea that they cannot control love anymore they can control time or space... or keep people in their lives forever after.

If someone wants to be with you - they will be.
And if they don't - they won't. They'll leave.

And that's quite apart from all the outter, accidental things that can happen to take them away from you - or spell "The End" of your connection.

Putting a ring on their finger or a piece of paper or the social acknowledgement that you are "together" or the FB-status change..... these are mostly terms of art from my pov.

These things give people a false sense of security in a world that is actually pretty chaotic and out of control...

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posted March 14, 2016 12:55 AM            

quote:

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Each time I live in the moment, flirt, stay detached and fully aware of my other projects that I must juggle at the same time - as opposed to my usual tunnel vision/single-mindedness when I set my eyes on someone I believe is "marriage/commitment potential", I feel happier. Looking back, I think I ruined the chances of some pretty good relationships by stressing too much the need for a commitment, instead of just enjoying that relationship for what it was, at that time. I do think I need to learn the path of detached love, I've been reading a lot of Buddhist books and other philosophies that promote it and I think it makes perfect sense. That is the type of partner I would want, and that I want to become. Indeed, it is not something that comes easy for me because of some placements in my chart, however there are also others that support it, especially the Aries/Aqua-Uranus influences. I guess I need to focus more on them, regarding relationships.

I've been thinking I might need to let go of the idea of marriage altogether, but not with a feeling of having to give something up, or sacrificing a dream. It's a bit out of my comfort zone to think in those terms, which is why often times I revert to my old way of thinking, but I am starting to believe I can still have a fulfilling and rich life without being married to someone. There have been times when I thought I may not be fit for marriage to begin with, because I'm very independent and uncompromising about certain things. A part of me even feels liberated by the notion of not having to conform to a traditional marriage, and putting that huge pressure on myself and my relationships.

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Love what you wrote here