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Author Topic:   Is Humor About mental health Trivializing The Serious Issue?
Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyway, I would appreciate it now if you could consider my original concerns about trivialising the mental health issues that lead to therapy, please?

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to start at a more beginning point with you and me.

I have very good intuition and am intelligent.

That gives me a basis on which to trust what I SEE.

You and I come from such diametrically opposed "points of view"/lens on life that we could not agree on many/most subjects.


This is not to say one of us is good and one is bad.

It is a different core belief about MAN and who he is/what he is and about life.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 07:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am a Born Again Christian/Messianic Jew.

I believe the Bible.

I believe it literally, unless it is figurative.

People take it out of context and act all goofy, so I don't want to take Bible quotes on in this thread

However, it is my WORLD VIEW.

You have a very different world view.

I don't know the specific nature of it.

I think it is prolly that all men are good at the core but society/evil/egos/the family due to problems etc messed them up.

If man could find love in himself and others, the world would heal.


I DON"T BELIEVE this.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 07:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you think man, himself, or with the help of the "spirit/god as you see him/her" can heal himself through love.

I DON"T BELIEVE THIS

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 07:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I could go on for many pages on how we are different at the core.

However, to bring it up to date.

I think that when people can laugh at themselves, that shows health!

I think if people can aspire to laugh at themselves, that shows health.

However, some people can't/don't want.

I respect that but I will not stop using my humor.

Humor is a gift from God to deal with the harshness of life.

Humor exists because life simply does not work lol

Humor is the slice in between the two

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 07:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My mother molested me, as you know.

I say that to say I understand abuse.

I am not someone with a great life preaching to someone who was molested.

I was too.

Your betrayal was horrible and my heart goes out to you for that--truly xoxo

However, I do not think you are on the right track to healing-- at all.

I do not think you will find what you want--peace, love, self esteem, joy etc on your path.

That is why I am not open to discussing your path.

I don't believe it leads to where you want to go, but you think it does.

I am very direct and honest, as you know.

If someone asks me a question, they should expect I will be honest lol

I try to express myself with love, too.

Some people may not see that but I try to.

If I don't, I should, to the best of my ability.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 07:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyway, when people are soooo very different at the core, they need to agree to disagree.

Otherwise, they will feel badly to each other and maybe fight or just feel a bad feeling to the other person.

I think you are very pure at heart.

I think you have a lot of idealism.

My heart really resonated to that.

That touched me and it will touch people.

However, even though I respect you, we do not have real areas for agreements on life, it's meaning and on human nature, which includes how to treat/deal with/understand/find solutions for mental illness

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 07:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I appreciate your invitation to discuss this issue Ami. I wish to take some time to respond thoughtfully, as yes, we do see things very differently.

The positive thing about this is that there is huge scope for growth here for both of us.

I will come back to respond more fully.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 08:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to add, Voix, that I do not want to change my world view, which is a Biblical one, as I said.

I don't wish to discuss Bible quotes because they are taken out of context.

I need to be more Christ like, as do all followers of Jesus and I fall WAY short.

However, my purpose in life is to lead people to Jesus.

Since my website started, I have led about 50-100 people to Jesus.

You don't need to believe in Jesus to get a chart done or a reading BUT I will, probably, mention Jesus and see if people want to talk about Him.

If not, fine, but many people do.

These people would not go to a church but they would come to an Astrologer.

Hence, I have a ministry, if you will, to the New Age.

It hones my life down to somewhat of a simple purpose.

People may say I am a bad witness for Christ and I am sure I am, in many ways.

I am fighting my battles from abuse, as you are.

I am a flawed human with a human ego that wants human things which are selfish and ego driven.

However, I do know that I am on the right path and that God is the answer and that I can heal completely, if I will only let go and receive God's love for me.

Also, a follower of Jesus points people to God, not himself/herself, in which human flaws are very evident, as they are with me.


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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

You have a very different world view.
I don't know the specific nature of it.
I think it is prolly that all men are good at the core but society/evil/egos/the family due to problems etc messed them up.
If man could find love in himself and others, the world would heal.
I DON"T BELIEVE this.

Yes, but I suspect we want the same thing - to use our lives and skills to improve the world.

You are correct that I do believe there are many factors that lead a person to harm others. This is supported by my personal experiences, those of my clients, and reams of research. This is how I have come to my conclusion.

------ to help me understand, how have you come to your conclusions?

"Good at the core" is an interesting turn of phrase, which I don't actually agree with. For starters, it is not my view to separate people into fixed categories of "good" and "bad".
I feel that we are *all* capable of positive and negative behaviours, and to harm or protect others.

I believe it is *self-knowledge* and *responsibility* that is the difference between harming others or not.
---- do we really differ on this one?

As for the propensity to harm others, yes, I believe this is influenced by a person's emotional make-up, their early and adult environments, how much support they have received or sought to manage their suffering, amongst others.

To isolate the person from environment and experiences, is to suggest that they are born "bad" or defective, and unable to change. So in effect this is implying that those who harm others are psychopathic.

----- this can't be true, as there are many who have harmed others, including you and I, who do not meet the criteria for psychopathy, and who may even generally have a high level of empathy and understanding.

---- how then do we explain harmful behaviour?

quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

I think you think man, himself, or with the help of the "spirit/god as you see him/her" can heal himself through love.
I DON"T BELIEVE THIS


----- actually, I think healing comes through self-knowledge, a responsibility to protect others from harm, commitment to changing thought-patterns and behaviours, learning coping skills and how to self-soothe, a personal responsibility for one's suffering, a creative channel to express pain when it does arise, and support from others who are healthy.

quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

However, I do not think you are on the right track to healing-- at all.
I do not think you will find what you want--peace, love, self esteem, joy etc on your path.
That is why I am not open to discussing your path.
I don't believe it leads to where you want to go, but you think it does.
I am very direct and honest, as you know.
If someone asks me a question, they should expect I will be honest lol
I try to express myself with love, too.


---- The irony of this statement, Ami, is that I have already found peace, love, self-esteem and joy. My life is brimming with it, actually. However, as you know very little of my inner world, my path, and my current life, it is understandable that any assumption you make of the same, would be significantly inaccurate.


__________________________________________________________________________________

:::::::::::::::: But, back to the original topic::::::::::::::::

quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

I think that when people can laugh at themselves, that shows health!


----- I agree that laughter is healthy. However, when it comes to laughing at one's deep vulnerabilities, that is not something we can decide for others. It is their right to choose when to laugh at their vulnerabilities or not. Not everyone is ready to do this, and if we push this on people when they aren't ready then it will feel to them that we are simply laughing *at* them. This is how it links to promoting stigma. A major component of stigma is ridicule, from those who are ignorant to the pain of mental health.

---- I know you are not ignorant to the pain of mental health, I know you have felt it, and I think you do care in your own way. You recognise the benefits of laughter, and you want to share this with those who may benefit. My point is that not everyone who reads this will be ready - you have no control over who reads, and in the current climate where stigma and ignorance are alive and kicking, we still have to have boundaries in how we speak about mental health, and be very careful we are not further marginalising those who are not ready or able to move out of the pain into laughing.

Can you see at all how those who aren't ready to do this, may just feel ridiculed and marginalised?

Another poster made an interesting point that I have made in the past myself. That many who seek answers from astrology are suffering and/or vulnerable. Some of these people may never speak, or speak little, we may not even know they are there, we may never know the depths of their pain, or how they perceive our views on mental health or abuse, or any of the other big topics. On the other hand, some do actually speak out, either for themselves or for others.

------ Can we ethically put our freedom to say what we like before the wellbeing of others?

----- Can we really be a supportive influence to those who seek answers, if we do not consider them and be responsible with our words?

----- I can see how people may feel this is censorship, and I guess it is in a way - a personal censorship - or responsibility - because we do not want to cause harm with our words.

We can raise awareness and fight stigma without causing additional harm, my organisation does it all the time, as do many others.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All I can say is that I think Truth is love.

In the Bible resides the Truth.

In the Bible is the way to wisdom.

In the Bible is the way to happiness, peace and joy and ONLY in the Bible.

In the Bible resides the truth about man's nature and HOW he can heal--emotionally and bodily and spiritually.

I will not change from people getting angry at me or discussing things with me nicely.

I will change as I grow and change with God and as I share ideas with people who believe as I do, not with people who have a totally different world view, said with respect.

I know you wanted more from me, but I can't give it.

We have to agree to disagree, my Friend.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 08:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will say one thing I learned from this fight on LL.

I need to reach out my hand to people and try to make friends, when I can.

With some people, it is impossible but with many people you can.

How to destroy an enemy?

Turn him into a friend.

I need to discern the people who want to be friends.

Some do and some don't lol

That is where the wisdom part comes in.

I think you do want friendship and a good community.

Not everyone does, but some people do lol

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You seem reluctant to enter into depth discussion about issues Ami, despite inviting me here.
I won't profess to know why, but I am open to it when you feel ready.

I don't believe we need to change our world views to understand how someone else has reached theirs.

That is why I came here, I am not afraid that you can change me, and I have no intent to change you.

I seek understanding only. But if you aren't ready to go there with this subject, then I guess it's a non-starter.

I hope that if I speak up in disagreement in the future, you will understand that I am seeking discourse.
You are of course free to refuse, but I feel a powerful sense of responsibility to speak up when I feel something is a danger to others, as I know you do also.

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I will say one thing I learned from this fight on LL.

I need to reach out my hand to people and try to make friends, when I can.

With some people, it is impossible but with many people you can.

How to destroy an enemy?

Turn him into a friend.

I need to discern the people who want to be friends.

Some do and some don't lol

That is where the wisdom part comes in.

I think you do want friendship and a good community.

Not everyone does, but some people do lol


Yes, I think we have proven that fighting is not necessary.

I do not feel that I understand you any more than before as you did not want to go there with me, which is unfortunate for both of us, but cannot be helped at this time.

With the knowledge that we are radically different, have not yet reached a depth understanding of those differences, and are therefore at high risk of fighting, my door for discussion will always be open to you.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 08:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I realized that you truly want to make peace here at LL.

Some people don't.

But, some people, like you, do.

I think that we will not have these big fights again because you came and stopped them, basically, with a pure attitude and that is very cool.

That attitude made other people move to a higher plane and that is really what you are saying and it is true lol

RESPECT

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I realized that you truly want to make peace here at LL.

Some people don't.

But, some people, like you, do.

I think that we will not have these big fights again because you came and stopped them, basically, with a pure attitude and that is very cool.

That attitude made other people move to a higher plane and that is really what you are saying and it is true lol

RESPECT


I do, and I think more others do also. But over time, people feel downtrodden by fighting and lack of understanding.
I'm not around as regularly as others are, so I have not been involved in much arguing recently, I can understand how people feel there is no hope for resolution when they have tried for so long.

I know you don't want to go any further into discussing your world view, but to be honest, I was more interested in discussing the original topic anyway.
I don't feel that us having different world views means we cannot discuss this topic, and I can assume you don't think this is a barrier either by starting this thread.

I suppose I would like to highlight that I saw the merit in laughter, and I communicated this to you in order to express that I understand where you are coming from.

----- Could you speak to my concerns about humourising mental health in the same way -- can you find a way to understand where I am coming from?


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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
::::::::::::I have re-quoted my response to the topic for ease of discussion::::::::::::


quote:
Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
----- I agree that laughter is healthy. However, when it comes to laughing at one's deep vulnerabilities, that is not something we can decide for others. It is their right to choose when to laugh at their vulnerabilities or not. Not everyone is ready to do this, and if we push this on people when they aren't ready then it will feel to them that we are simply laughing *at* them. This is how it links to promoting stigma. A major component of stigma is ridicule, from those who are ignorant to the pain of mental health.

---- I know you are not ignorant to the pain of mental health, I know you have felt it, and I think you do care in your own way. You recognise the benefits of laughter, and you want to share this with those who may benefit. My point is that not everyone who reads this will be ready - you have no control over who reads, and in the current climate where stigma and ignorance are alive and kicking, we still have to have boundaries in how we speak about mental health, and be very careful we are not further marginalising those who are not ready or able to move out of the pain into laughing.

Can you see at all how those who aren't ready to do this, may just feel ridiculed and marginalised?

Another poster made an interesting point that I have made in the past myself. That many who seek answers from astrology are suffering and/or vulnerable. Some of these people may never speak, or speak little, we may not even know they are there, we may never know the depths of their pain, or how they perceive our views on mental health or abuse, or any of the other big topics. On the other hand, some do actually speak out, either for themselves or for others.

------ Can we ethically put our freedom to say what we like before the wellbeing of others?

----- Can we really be a supportive influence to those who seek answers, if we do not consider them and be responsible with our words?

----- I can see how people may feel this is censorship, and I guess it is in a way - a personal censorship - or responsibility - because we do not want to cause harm with our words.

We can raise awareness and fight stigma without causing additional harm, my organisation does it all the time, as do many others.


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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could you speak to my concerns about humourising mental health in the same way -- can you find a way to understand where I am coming from?

I just don't agree, my Friend

Humor is THERE to make the hard things EASIER!

If people are hurt, they need to be helped to develop resources to which they can use laughter to deal with pain, too.

Humor should not have to go away because it "hurts" people.

Those people need to be BUILT UP, so they can laugh too!

I would build them up by helping them to see that God loves them.

Once you know that God loves you, you can heal your shame.

Not being able to laugh at yourself is due to a root/core of shame.

I would try to lead people to Jesus.

You would counsel them with your understanding of how healing comes from self awareness.

I do not agree with this most basic premise that you have.

I think healing comes from knowing that the God who built the universe loves little old, flawed, imperfect,screwed up YOU.

There is the difference in how we perceive healing.

I would counsel them with the Bible, one could say, but my "wisdom" would not be my own but God's, as I see it.

So, we are very different in our basic approaches to humor, counseling and mental health.

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b] Could you speak to my concerns about humourising mental health in the same way -- can you find a way to understand where I am coming from?

I just don't agree, my Friend

Humor is THERE to make the hard things EASIER!

If people are hurt, they need to be helped to develop resources to which they can use laughter to deal with pain, too.

Humor should not have to go away because it "hurts" people.

Those people need to be BUILT UP, so they can laugh too!

I would build them up by helping them to see that God loves them.

Once you know that God loves you, you can heal your shame.

Not being able to laugh at yourself is due to a root/core of shame.

I would try to lead people to Jesus.

You would counsel them with your understanding of how healing comes from self awareness.

I do not agree with this most basic premise that you have.

I think healing comes from knowing that the God who built the universe loves little old, flawed, imperfect,screwed up YOU.

There is the difference in how we perceive healing.

I would counsel them with the Bible, one could say, but my "wisdom" would not be my own but God's, as I see it.

So, we are very different in our basic approaches to humor, counseling and mental health.

[/B]


OK, so you believe that the only way to heal shame and mental health issues is through dedicating one's life to god.

As a Christian, it makes sense that you would believe this.

What I am wondering though, is do you consider that some may not be ready to laugh, nor prepared to accept that shame can only be healed through god, and may perceive this as you laughing *at* them?

Of course shame plays a massive factor in mental health issues.

--- Are you aware that much of this shame comes from a culture that for thousands of years has shunned and laughed at those with mental health issues?

I am not saying that using humour is wrong, I am saying that it must be targeted at those who are *ready*, and when we are writing about mental health to the public, we need to err on the side of caution, as many of our readers may be far from ready or strong enough to use humour.

You must recognise that there are varying stages of healing and that humour cannot be appropriate for all of them?

---- Have you ever made a joke when someone is holding a knife to their wrists?

At that stage of mental illness, how can it ever be supportive or helpful to make a joke?

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Ami Anne
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posted September 11, 2016 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't answer any better for you, Voix.

If people are sooo damaged that they can't laugh at themselves and many people are, I would try to lead them to Jesus, so life would not have to have that level of shame.

I understand shame as all abuse victims do!

I have been down really, really low.

No Psych methods ever helped me--EVER

I have zero faith in them.

My faith lies in Jesus for all healing. Period end lol

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Voix_de_la_Mer
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posted September 11, 2016 10:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voix_de_la_Mer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I can't answer any better for you, Voix.

If people are sooo damaged that they can't laugh at themselves and many people are, I would try to lead them to Jesus, so life would not have to have that level of shame.

I understand shame as all abuse victims do!

I have been down really, really low.

No Psych methods ever helped me--EVER

I have zero faith in them.

My faith lies in Jesus for all healing. Period end lol


I can only apologise that the field has not helped you Ami, that does sadden me.
I am realising that there are major differences in the field of psychology between the US and the UK.

I'm a critical thinker by nature, I would absolutely not be able to support psychology if it failed more than it supported. My experience on both sides of the couch in the UK has been overwhelmingly positive and life-changing.

Ami,
you can't lead everyone who reads your articles to Jesus because you will never meet most of them. It is an article on the internet, available widely and universally. You cannot ensure the safety and wellbeing of all those who read and leave feeling hurt.

Perhaps when writing articles of a sensitive nature, a footnote or disclaimer which directs readers to sources of help if they are struggling would be a way to create a safety net?

You cannot possibly counsel all these people yourself, and not all of them will be open to becoming Christians, so it may be worth linking them to other sources of support too.

Psychology may have failed you, but it helps millions of others.

Healing is a personal journey and as champions of the vulnerable, we must accept their diversity and individual needs and beliefs on their journey.

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anonymidarkness
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posted September 11, 2016 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for anonymidarkness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It might offend people, yes, but a joke is a joke, one is not supposed to take them seriously. But yeah, I can also see how it can be traumatizing for some.

I especially liked these three

quote:

Pisces----She has found recreational drugs. No shrink
needed.
Scorpio - he is the shrink
Pisces - not wanting to leave his room, he imagines and
daydreams about going to the shrink in hopes of being
enlightened by what the imaginary shrink would tell him.
Instead, he day dreams about dancing dolphins and
decides to dress up as a fish...


lol good ones, "Scorpio - he is the shrink" rofl.

Visited a Psychiatrist once who prescribed me meds on the very first visit, ditched him, have never visited Psychiatrists again, who needs Psychiatrists when I've found the recreational drugs!

Jokes aside, if one benefits from Psych methods, use them. For me, natural route works.

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Ami Anne
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Posts: 68471
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted September 11, 2016 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, so you believe that the only way to heal shame and mental health issues is through dedicating one's life to god.

As a Christian, it makes sense that you would believe this.


Yes

http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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