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Author
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Topic: Is this discrimination
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aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12241
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted January 09, 2020 08:21 PM
  
Several weeks ago I interviewed for an internship that I was highly qualified for, and the woman interviewing me made a comment that didn't sit right with me.She asked me about my interests oitside of school and work, and I answered that I like sports and outdoor activities. Then she replied, "Oh! Sounds like you should work in an environment with a lot of men!" That comment hit me and I knew in my gut that I wasn't going to get that internship as soon as she said that. And guess what? I didn't. Maybe it is no big deal and I am imagining things, but I feel like she assumed things about me because I am a guy and that influenced her decision. Imagine if a guy was interviewing a woman for a job in a more male-dominated field and he said, "You need to work in a place with a lot of women." I have a hard time believing that would go over well. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 9499
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted January 10, 2020 12:05 PM
I simply don't know enough about either the internship or the circumstances to say.As a rule of thumb, those interested in sports are generally seen as team players which is a good thing. And for the record, plenty of women are athletic and love sports, and her saying that is also sexist against women. On the other hand, internships are infamous for working without pay. While it can, in some instances, open doors to actual work later on (in which case it's worth it), it doesn't always, and they literally could've been looking for someone spineless that they could exploit with impunity before discarding them, with the credit of anything they did do stolen by an employee or executive (and someone into sports doesn't normally fall into the spineless territory). If I suspected discrimination, one of the first things I'd do is talk to the others who applied. (It wouldn't hurt to ask the one who got it, if done in a friendly way as possible without bitterness as remember this wasn't her decision, why she got the job...frame it in a way to ask about your future attempts elsewhere.) And if you're actually thinking of filing a discrimination suit of some kind you'll need to know these people anyway as they'll almost certainly become involved, either for you or against you. Still, few people make decisions in a vacuum. And it can sometimes come down to something silly. I was neck to neck with this new guy for a library job. He had a minor degree along with some work experience that put him ahead of me, and yet my volunteer work to that point had been exemplary with me understanding the nuances of that library and the many patrons who used it, in addition to getting along with everyone there (and many librarians WANTED me to get the job, one threw a fit when I didn't), even if I did politely but firmly question the library director at times. What it came down to is that we (separately) were to put some books on a shelf in the proper order. He was a few seconds faster than me and thus he got the job (but I wasn't told it was a race, though had he made even a single mistake then I'd have still gotten the job). Though it's possible I was sabotaged (won't call it discrimination as it's more that the library director and one board member did not care for me personally, though another board member did in addition to the rest of the library staff and volunteers liking me), which is to say had I won then the library director might've added other tests until he got the results he wanted, it strikes me as just one of those things where something so trivial could displace me. And I'd have never even known why he got the job over me had other librarians not told me about it (I was still a volunteer). IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12241
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted January 10, 2020 01:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I simply don't know enough about either the internship or the circumstances to say.As a rule of thumb, those interested in sports are generally seen as team players which is a good thing. And for the record, plenty of women are athletic and love sports, and her saying that is also sexist against women. On the other hand, internships are infamous for working without pay. While it can, in some instances, open doors to actual work later on (in which case it's worth it), it doesn't always, and they literally could've been looking for someone spineless that they could exploit with impunity before discarding them, with the credit of anything they did do stolen by an employee or executive (and someone into sports doesn't normally fall into the spineless territory). If I suspected discrimination, one of the first things I'd do is talk to the others who applied. (It wouldn't hurt to ask the one who got it, if done in a friendly way as possible without bitterness as remember this wasn't her decision, why she got the job...frame it in a way to ask about your future attempts elsewhere.) And if you're actually thinking of filing a discrimination suit of some kind you'll need to know these people anyway as they'll almost certainly become involved, either for you or against you. Still, few people make decisions in a vacuum. And it can sometimes come down to something silly. I was neck to neck with this new guy for a library job. He had a minor degree along with some work experience that put him ahead of me, and yet my volunteer work to that point had been exemplary with me understanding the nuances of that library and the many patrons who used it, in addition to getting along with everyone there (and many librarians WANTED me to get the job, one threw a fit when I didn't), even if I did politely but firmly question the library director at times. What it came down to is that we (separately) were to put some books on a shelf in the proper order. He was a few seconds faster than me and thus he got the job (but I wasn't told it was a race, though had he made even a single mistake then I'd have still gotten the job). Though it's possible I was sabotaged (won't call it discrimination as it's more that the library director and one board member did not care for me personally, though another board member did in addition to the rest of the library staff and volunteers liking me), which is to say had I won then the library director might've added other tests until he got the results he wanted, it strikes me as just one of those things where something so trivial could displace me. And I'd have never even known why he got the job over me had other librarians not told me about it (I was still a volunteer).
Just for clarification,
It was a paid internship. It paid very well, which is why it bothered me. If it was unpaid, I wouldn't really care. She also made a comment that I should buy a fancy portfolio book at an art supplies story because they are 'only $40.00.' Mind you, I gave her copies of my published portfolio pieces that were neatly stapled and organized. But I guess the fact that I didn't give them to her out of a fancy portfolio book was a dealbreaker.
IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 122822
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 28, 2020 06:02 PM
The question is: Would that statement have been considered sexist if modified in some way relative to gender and if roles were reversed?IP: Logged |
firemoon
Knowflake Posts: 173
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted January 29, 2020 05:43 AM
I would ask myself where that stereotype comes from.. I mean literally in a patriarchal society women aren't "supposed" to be aggressive competitors, we're supposed to be in our homes tending to domestic duties. I don't think those are gender roles women thought up as a way to exclude or dominate men, I think it's probably the other way around. The problem for men is sometimes it backfires when women start believing it too. It's sort of like asking if affirmative action is racist against white people.. on a case by case basis maybe. In the bigger picture, no. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 73559
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted January 29, 2020 08:06 AM
If something is not meant to be there will be blocks to it. I have learned to respect any block and not push against it. You can get the thing and pay for it badly.------------------
Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.
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anonymidarkness
Knowflake Posts: 7682
From:
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted January 29, 2020 09:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by firemoon:
I would ask myself where that stereotype comes from.. I mean literally in a patriarchal society women aren't "supposed" to be aggressive competitors, we're supposed to be in our homes tending to domestic duties. I don't think those are gender roles women thought up as a way to exclude or dominate men, I think it's probably the other way around. The problem for men is sometimes it backfires when women start believing it too. It's sort of like asking if affirmative action is racist against white people.. on a case by case basis maybe. In the bigger picture, no.
Individuals cannot be treated as "bigger" picture, thats how the entire shjt arises. IP: Logged |
anonymidarkness
Knowflake Posts: 7682
From:
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted January 29, 2020 09:13 AM
That said, if thats how the recruiting process really is, its "good" that you were not selected maybe ?IP: Logged |
firemoon
Knowflake Posts: 173
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted January 29, 2020 09:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Individuals cannot be treated as "bigger" picture, thats how the entire shjt arises.
Right but the bigger picture influenced how the interviewer treated him as an individual.. not acknowledging it isn’t a solution. IP: Logged |
anonymidarkness
Knowflake Posts: 7682
From:
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted January 29, 2020 11:32 AM
^ Then it is sexist. And it is hardly a patriarchal society now, is it ? IP: Logged |
firemoon
Knowflake Posts: 173
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted January 29, 2020 06:06 PM
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the documentary I recommended on the other thread anonymidarknessIP: Logged |
anonymidarkness
Knowflake Posts: 7682
From:
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted January 31, 2020 08:33 PM
I still haven't stumbled across it...IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12241
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted February 01, 2020 02:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
The question is: Would that statement have been considered sexist if modified in some way relative to gender and if roles were reversed?
Yes. Definitely. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12241
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted February 01, 2020 08:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by firemoon:
I would ask myself where that stereotype comes from.. I mean literally in a patriarchal society women aren't "supposed" to be aggressive competitors, we're supposed to be in our homes tending to domestic duties
What does this have to do with the fact that I interviewed for a job that required a specific skillset that I have?
Also, please think about what you are saying. So, this sort of thing happens because of the patriarachy? If that was truly the case, I would have had an advantage because a man is a provider. That is how it works in the type of society you are talking about. But the problem is that way of life hasn't existed in decades here in the US. And frankly, the patriarchy has never existed the way feminists envision it. In the old days, gender roles were defined by reality. Most work was hard and only men were able to do it. Furthermore, women had to watch the children because there were no daycare centers. There was no systematic oppression of women. I always chuckle when women talk about "shattering glass ceilings" when they graduate university or achieve some other basic thing. They seem to forget that most men didn't have the opportunity to go to college until very recently (the 20th century) and many men in college right now are the first people in their families to graduate college. I will graduate in May and I will be the first man in my family with a college degree. But nobody wants to hear about that. Also, I am glad you brought up affirmative action because I have major issues with that as well. It most definitely is racist. And affirmative action in favor of women is sexist. I see it in my program. Women and minorities have special programs that give them advantages in getting internships at major companies. They also have way more scholarships available to them. When certain groups of people get privileges like that because of their race or gender it is definitely discrimination. Everyone should have the same opportunities regardless of their race or gender. Affirmative action gives certain people major advantages.
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firemoon
Knowflake Posts: 173
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted February 05, 2020 04:23 AM
I know it's hard to tell online but that comment was basically a hyperbole. In an environment/society where women are often still not seen as equals (despite most jobs these days having nothing to do with physical labor and there being an abundance of daycare centers) it's not uncommon for women (or minorities) to band together and bring their resources elsewhere. Sometimes in a way that's not as inclusive to men and/or the racial majority. This doesn't make it "right" but it makes it a part of a larger system. The glass ceiling doesn't exist until much higher up than graduating university, if you don't believe it exists at all what can I say.. Nothing really, but I think it's great that you're graduating soon and hope you'll find a better position.. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 122822
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 06, 2020 09:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Yes. Definitely.
I concur. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12241
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted February 08, 2020 01:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by firemoon:
I know it's hard to tell online but that comment was basically a hyperbole. In an environment/society where women are often still not seen as equals (despite most jobs these days having nothing to do with physical labor and there being an abundance of daycare centers) it's not uncommon for women (or minorities) to band together and bring their resources elsewhere. Sometimes in a way that's not as inclusive to men and/or the racial majority. This doesn't make it "right" but it makes it a part of a larger system. The glass ceiling doesn't exist until much higher up than graduating university, if you don't believe it exists at all what can I say.. Nothing really, but I think it's great that you're graduating soon and hope you'll find a better position..
But who isn't inclusive to women? I see women everywhere. They are even in the boy scouts now.IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12241
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted February 08, 2020 01:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by firemoon:
The glass ceiling doesn't exist until much higher up than graduating university, if you don't believe it exists at all what can I say..
So you mean it is extremely difficult to become the CEO or president of a company? I agree with that. I am affected by that "glass ceiling" too. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 12241
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted February 08, 2020 02:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
I concur.
Trump 2020! IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 122822
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 08, 2020 04:43 PM
Trump 2020? WTF!?!IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 122822
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 09, 2020 03:24 PM
I was caught off guard by that from you.IP: Logged |
firemoon
Knowflake Posts: 173
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted February 10, 2020 08:32 AM
Honestly AG, not to sound "harsh" but unless you're willing to heal your own internal sh*t (a lot of which I would guess probably came from childhood, like it does for most people) don't expect everyone to continuously see you as a victim. We all have our crosses to bear but to me looking at the bigger picture means a lot of the things we (both genders) take personally usually aren't about us as an individual at all.. it helps to have some objectivity and realize not everyone is out to get us when things don't go our way. IP: Logged |
firemoon
Knowflake Posts: 173
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted February 10, 2020 03:47 PM
Also no, I’m trying to have my own business in a way and don’t perceive a gender based glass ceiling holding me back.. People make assumptions based on appearances and first impressions which can be good or bad but it’s always my responsibility to work with those impressions. I was talking more about in government and politics (as policies are set from the top down) but Lord knows that’s a conversation I don’t want to have here lol and I honestly have stopped paying attention for the most part.
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Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 73559
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted February 11, 2020 09:23 AM
I am not surprised AG is a Trump supporter. He is not a sheep.------------------
Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 122822
From: From a galaxy, far, far away...
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 11, 2020 06:08 PM
He used to be very anti-Trump.IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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