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Author Topic:   Lilith aspects in synastry - any takers?
augentier
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posted November 29, 2007 12:03 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know this topic is lightly touched..but for those who are informed of Lilith's role in the chart and between people..what are your thoughts on this:

A woman's Lilith conjunct a man's Venus...and that man's Lilith conjunct the woman's Mars.


A woman's mars is supposed to show the type of man she is attracted to..a man's venus is supposed to show the woman he will go after..so it LOOKS like the Lilith aspects shown above would create a deep-seated and perhaps unconscious attraction to each other..maybe? What do you all think?

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libraschoice7
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posted November 29, 2007 03:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my personal experience personal planets making contact with someone elses Lilith makes for a very strong almost irresistible attraction. Especially if its Mars or Venus in particular...it seems to be erotic but controversial at the same time. The planet person is drawn and taken by the charms of the lilith person.

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

"I seem to have the blind self-acceptance of the eccentric who can't conceive that his eccentricities are not clearly understood"

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kindjali
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posted November 29, 2007 03:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kindjali     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about this?

Juno-Lilith conjucting other persons North Node?

K.

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libraschoice7
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posted November 29, 2007 04:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not sure of the Node contacts(it might be a fated attraction)...I only know about the contacts to personal planets, sorry

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

"I seem to have the blind self-acceptance of the eccentric who can't conceive that his eccentricities are not clearly understood"

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SagSun
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posted November 29, 2007 05:28 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's interesting...

My special someone's Lilith conjuncts my Descendant and my Lilith conjuncts his Psyche. My parents have a very similar connection. My mom's Lilith conjuncts my dad's Ascendant and my dad's Lilith opposes my mom's Psyche. No clue what this could mean ... Lilith is still a big mystery to me.

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lovegoblin
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posted November 29, 2007 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovegoblin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about the luminaries?

Example:woman's lillith opposite mans sun, trine man's venus.

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augentier
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posted November 29, 2007 04:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libraschoice - so would you agree that the woman's Lilith conjunct a man's venus and vice versa (w/ woman's mars) that the bond is particularly romantic/sexual?

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augentier
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posted November 29, 2007 04:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
err..sorry, guess i should clarify something in that previous post because you already answered THAT question

i guess what i'm asking is..is the bond sexual/romantic BECAUSE of the male-female cross-bonding .. or do you think it would be the same attraction if it were FEMALE lilith to MAN mars, and MALE lilith to FEMALE venus?

see what i mean here? hope this makes sense.

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libraschoice7
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posted November 29, 2007 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It can go either way...and the attraction would still be there. The fact that you guys have both going on(both planets Mars and Venus)makes it pretty strong. I am just wondering why it is so overlooked in synastry, and there doesn't seem to be much info on it. But by looking at many synastry charts of couples/lovers and studying my own experiences and attractions there is something there. They are more primal and sexual than romantic in nature. I would almost say they are like a 'cousin' to the Pluto contacts in synastry.

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

"I seem to have the blind self-acceptance of the eccentric who can't conceive that his eccentricities are not clearly understood"

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kindjali
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posted November 29, 2007 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kindjali     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm, what can Man's True Node do on Woman's Lilith and Juno?
The Man that will open real sexuality and what is relationship about?

K.

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libraschoice7
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posted November 29, 2007 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Lovegoblin how is one of my favorite Cancers doing? With the Moon it would have more of an emotional touch to it, and with Sun the person would see more of their own personal and hidden desires brought out by the Lilith person.

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

"I seem to have the blind self-acceptance of the eccentric who can't conceive that his eccentricities are not clearly understood"

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Mystique
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posted November 29, 2007 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mystique     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
augentier,
I would say that makes for quite a passionate relationship

I agree the Lilith contacts to planets and even asteroids like Eros would be very primal and intense.

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lovegoblin
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posted November 29, 2007 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovegoblin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you LC!!

I was wrong-my lillith is opposite his sun and trine his moon.

thanks for getting back to me though...

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Azalaksh
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posted November 29, 2007 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A few interesting Lilith links in this thread:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/005183.html

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lovegoblin
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posted November 29, 2007 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovegoblin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for that link Zala.

The subject of Lillith is definately fascinating and intriguing.

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libraschoice7
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posted November 29, 2007 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Awesome link Zala!

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

"I seem to have the blind self-acceptance of the eccentric who can't conceive that his eccentricities are not clearly understood"

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augentier
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posted November 29, 2007 10:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lilith contacts to Eros you say? This same man who has Lilith in Pisces..well, I have Eros in Pisces too LOL..holy crap..scorpio venus to mars, scorpio ascendant to mars & moon, cancer lilith to venus, pisces lilith to mars and eros....no wonder i fell head over heels the MOMENT i saw him

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GeminiLover75
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posted November 29, 2007 10:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Lilith squares his Venus...

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venusdeindia
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posted November 29, 2007 10:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i hope to expalin lilith a little.
from my study of tantra in we live in a dualistic reality . opposites.light and dark , men n women, yin n yang etc.
the goddess in tantra has 2 faces too .
Durga the goddess of sexuality as in creation, birth , beginning , the waxing phase of the moon
Kaali the goddess of sexuality as in death, endings, destruction ,transformation, the waning phase of the moon.

unlike our culture , the western philospohy or more specifically christian beliefs have completely rejected the Kaali side of our spirituality, the plutonian side which is not bad or evil , but only the opposite face of the coin.
lilith being the dark opposite face of the moon , i think stands for all that is rejected in ur culture., that can depend from person to person. the deepest , represssed part of our psychology, that needs to be transformed in order to evolve plutonically
and live wholly and completely. all of us have shadows in our souls, the part that has been hurt,angered is repressed to forget the vulnerability and the pain but also is very powerful because by rejecting it and not assimilating it into ourselves we make it powerful.
anyone who wants to understand lilith should understand the psyche behind kaali.

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venusdeindia
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posted November 29, 2007 11:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i m quoting from another site
----------------------------


In an effort to explain inconsistencies in the Old Testament, there developed in Jewish literature a complex interpretive system called the midrash which attempts to reconcile biblical contradictions and bring new meaning to the scriptural text.

Employing both a philological method and often an ingenious imagination, midrashic writings, which reached their height in the 2nd century CE, influenced later Christian interpretations of the Bible. Inconsistencies in the story of Genesis, especially the two separate accounts of creation, received particular attention. Later, beginning in the 13th century CE, such questions were also taken up in Jewish mystical literature known as the Kabbalah.

According to midrashic literature, Adam's first wife was not Eve but a woman named Lilith, who was created in the first Genesis account. Only when Lilith rebelled and abandoned Adam did God create Eve, in the second account, as a replacement. In an important 13th century Kabbalah text, the Sefer ha-Zohar ("The Book of Splendour") written by the Spaniard Moses de Leon (c. 1240-1305), it is explained that:

At the same time Jehovah created Adam, he created a woman, Lilith, who like Adam was taken from the earth. She was given to Adam as his wife. But there was a dispute between them about a matter that when it came before the judges had to be discussed behind closed doors. She spoke the unspeakable name of Jehovah and vanished.

In the Alpha Betha of Ben Sira (Alphabetum Siracidis, or Sepher Ben Sira), an anonymous collection of midrashic proverbs probably compiled in the 11th century C.E., it is explained more explicitly that the conflict arose because Adam, as a way of asserting his authority over Lilith, insisted that she lie beneath him during sexual intercourse (23 A-B). Lilith, however, considering herself to be Adam's equal, refused, and after pronouncing the Ineffable Name (i.e. the magic name of God) flew off into the air.

Adam, distraught and no doubt also angered by her insolent behaviour, wanted her back. On Adam's request, God sent three angels, named Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, who found her in the Red Sea. Despite the threat from the three angels that if she didn't return to Adam one hundred of her sons would die every day, she refused, claiming that she was created expressly to harm newborn infants. However, she did swear that she would not harm any infant wearing an amulet with the images and/or names of the three angels on it.

At this point, the legend of Lilith as the "first Eve" merges with the earlier legend of Sumero-Babylonian origin, dating from around 3,500 BCE, of Lilith as a winged female demon who kills infants and endangers women in childbirth. In this role, she was one of several mazakim or "harmful spirits" known from incantation formulas preserved in Assyrian, Hebrew, and Canaanite inscriptions intended to protect against them. As a female demon, she is closely related to Lamashtu whose evilness included killing children, drinking the blood of men, and eating their flesh. Lamashtu also caused pregnant women to miscarry, disturbed sleep and brought nightmares.

In turn, Lamshtu is like another demonized female called Lamia, a Libyan serpent goddess, whose name is probably a Greek variant of Lamashtu. Like Lamashtu, Lamia also killed children. In the guise of a beautiful woman, she also seduced young men. In the Latin Vulgate Bible, Lamia is given as the translation of the Hebrew Lilith (and in other translations it is given as "screech owl" and "night monster").

It needs to be remembered that these demonic "women" are essentially personifications of unseen forces invented to account for otherwise inexplicable events and phenomena which occur in the real world. Lilith, Lamashtu, Lamia and other female demons like them are all associated with the death of children and especially with the death of newborn infants.

It may be easily imagined that they were held accountable for such things as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS, also called crib death, or cot death) where an apparently healthy infant dies for no obvious reason. Cot death occurs almost always during sleep at night and is the most common cause of death of infants. Its cause still remains unknown.

By inventing evil spirits like Lilith, Lamashtu, and Lamia, parents were not only able to identify the enemy but also to know what they had to guard against. Amulets with the names of the three angels were intended to protect against the power of Lilith.

Lilith also personified licentiousness and lust. In the Christian Middle Ages she, or her female offspring, the lilim, became identified with succubae (the female counterparts of incubi) who would copulate with men in their sleep, causing them to have nocturnal emissions or "wet dreams."

Again, Lilith and her kind serve as a way of accounting for an otherwise inexplicable phenomenon among men. Today, 85 percent of all men experience "wet dreams" (the ejaculation of sperm while asleep) at some time in their lives, mostly during their teens and twenties and as often as once a month. In the Middle Ages, celibate monks would attempt to guard against these nocturnal visits by the lilith/succubus by sleeping with their hands crossed over their genitals and holding a crucifix.

Through the literature of the Kabbalah, Lilith became fixed in Jewish demonology where her primary role is that of strangler of children and a seducer of men. The Kabbalah further enhanced her demonic character by making her the partner of Samael (i.e. Satan) and queen of the realm of the forces of evil.

In this guise, she appears as the antagonistic negative counterpart of the Shekhinah ("Divine Presence"), the mother of the House of Israel. The Zohar repeatedly contrasts Lilith the unholy whorish woman with the Shekhinah as the holy, noble, and capable woman. In much the same way, Eve the disobedient, lustful sinner is contrasted with the obedient and holy Virgin Mary in Christian literature.

Through her couplings with the devil (or with Adam, as his succubus), Lilith gave birth to one hundred demonic children a day (the one hundred children threatened with death by the three angels). In this way, Lilith was held responsible for populating the world with evil.

If you ask how Lilith herself, the first wife of Adam, became evil, the answer lies in her insubordination to her husband Adam. It is her independence from Adam, her position beyond the control of a male, that makes her "evil."

She is disobedient and like Eve, and indeed all women who are willful, she is perceived as posing a constant threat to the divinely ordered state of affairs defined by men.

Lilith is represented as a powerfully sexual woman against whom men and babies felt they had few defenses and, except for a few amulets, little protection. Much more so than Eve, Lilith is the personification female sexuality.

Her legend serves to demonstrate how, when unchecked, female sexuality is disruptive and destructive. Lilith highlights how women, beginning with Eve, use their sexuality to seduce men. She provides thereby a necessary sexual dimension, which is otherwise lacking, to the Genesis story which, when read in literal terms, portrays Eve not as some wicked femme fatale but as a naive and largely sexless fool. Only as a Lilith-like character could Eve be seen as a calculating, evil, seductress.

Lilith is referred to only once in the Old Testament. In the Darby translation of Isaiah 34:14 the original Hebrew word is rendered as "lilith"; according to Isaiah, when God's vengeance has turned the land into a wilderness, "there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest." The same word is translated elsewhere, however, as "screech owl, "night creatures," "night monsters," and "night hag."

Although it has been suggested that the association with night stems from a similarity between the Sumero-Babylonian demon Lilitu and the Hebrew word laylah meaning "night," Lilith nonetheless seems to have been otherwise associated with darkness and night as a time of fear, vulnerability, and evil.

In her demonized form, Lilith is a frightening and threatening creature. Much more so than Eve, she personifies the real (sexual) power women exercise over men.

She represents the deeper, darker fear men have of women and female sexuality. Inasmuch as female sexuality, as a result of this fear, has been repressed and subjected to the severest controls in Western patriarchal society, so too has the figure of Lilith been kept hidden.

However, she lurks as a powerful unidentified presence, an unspoken name, in the minds of biblical commentators for whom Eve and Lilith become inextricably intertwined and blended into one person. Importantly, it is this Eve/Lilith amalgam which is used to identify women as the true source of evil in the world.

In the Apocryphal Testament of Reuben (one of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, ostensibly the twelve sons of Jacob), for example, it is explained that:

Women are evil, my children: because they have no power or strength to stand up against man, they use wiles and try to ensnare him by their charms; and man, whom woman cannot subdue by strength, she subdues by guile.
(Testament of Reuben: V, 1-2, 5)

References to Lilith in the Talmud describes her as a night demon with long hair (B. Erubin 100b) and as having a human likeness but with wings (B. Nidda 24b). In Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Kohen's "Treatise on the Emanations on the Left," written in Spain in the 13th century, she is described as having the form of a beautiful woman from her head to her waist, and "burning fire" from her waist down. Elsewhere, Rabbi Isaac equates her with the primordial serpent Leviathan.

Crudely drawn images of Lilith can be seen on amulets see (Magical or Prophylactic images of Lilith in incantation bowls and on amulets).

A Babylonian terra-cotta relief dated to around 2000 BCE in the collection of Colonel Norman Corville has been identified as a representation of Lilith (the identification has been questioned by a number of scholars). The relief shows a nude woman with wings and a bird's taloned feet. She wears a hat composed of four pairs of horns and holds in each upraised hand a combined ring and rod (similar to an Egyptian shen ring amulet). She stands on two reclining lions and is flanked by owls.

Despite the fact that she is not officially recognized in the Christian tradition, in the Late Middle Ages she is occasionally identified with the serpent in Genesis 3 and shown accordingly with a woman's head and torso. For example, the bare-breasted woman with a snake's lower parts posed seductively in the branches of the tree between Adam and Eve in the scene of the temptation carved into the base of the trumeau in the left doorway of the West façade of the Cathedral of Notre Dame in Paris has been identified as Lilith.

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venusdeindia
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posted November 29, 2007 11:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry double post

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venusdeindia
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posted November 29, 2007 11:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry double post

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Diandra23
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posted November 30, 2007 09:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WOW Venus

I didnt knew that about Lilith! In fact when some time ago i researched about Lilith, i found an article which was great and interesting: it didnt saw Lilith as the EVil one,substituing its "evilness" by dark forces that arent supposely bad at all - they are seen as a reality that we all have and must confront in our lifes

"
Apogee (Black Moon) Lilith

In the Moon's orbit of the Earth it periodically reaches its closest distance (perigee) and then its furthest distance (apogee). The longitude of its apogee is known as Lilith or Black Moon. Lilith in this sense is a much more major astrological consideration than either the small asteroid or the altogether questionable 'dark Moon'. The true position of apogee Lilith varies greatly from the often calculated mean position, and includes periods of retrogradation. The geocentric period of apogee Lilith is about nine years; while its glyph is a black Moon sitting over a cross.

Apogee Lilith is believed to be a point of instinctive and emotional intelligence, whereby individuals can gain contact with and feel their inner heartfelt truths and soul longings and passions. Since at Lilith the Moon is more distant from the Earth than usual, the Sun gains relative prominence, and Lilith is also associated with the unveiling of illusions, the illumination of self-defeating behaviour patterns, the exorcism of self-centred desires, and the coming into closer contact with Earth wisdom. A strongly placed Lilith favours art, creativity, detachment from social norms, emotional sensitivity and vulnerability, an uncompromising will, and unconventional relationships. Natal apogee Lilith retrograde is thought to offer past life indications judged by its sign and house placement.

Only conjunctions and oppositions to apogee Lilith within a three degree orb are considered in interpretation. Such aspects to Sun, Mercury or Venus in females are thought to heighten the expression of their sexuality in their public image; those to the Moon can indicate difficulties connected with pregnancy and childbirth; and those to Mars favour the expression of independence, sometimes attracting opposition from men.

In female nativities, a strongly placed Lilith shows consciousness of one's instincts, and confident governance of one's sexuality and childbirth needs; while more negative manifestations of the placement of Lilith can be social isolation stemming from unorthodox manners of functioning, and unsuitable sexual partners. In male nativities, a strongly placed Lilith attracts the individual to equal, fair relationships with strong females, who in turn are attracted to such types as him.

Transits from apogee Lilith bring pain and uncomfortable, uncontrolled emotions in matters connected with the transited planet, and sometimes manifest as vengefulness.

In synastric contacts, apogee Lilith brings a sense of soul connection characterised by a mergeance of personal and impersonal attributes, but with an inclination towards intensity, the uncovering of deep-seated desires, and some danger of obsessiveness and pain"
http://groups.msn.com/HOROSCOPESCHAT/lilithchiron.msnw

In your article,makes sense Lilith being sexuality. Catholics see sex as a demon and a sin and dont understand the Sacred in it and the Spirituaality - that why i love so much your Religion - sees Kaali and Siva and do not reject the sexual side of Human Beings and Gods!

In our Sinastry:

- my Lilith conj his Moon and trine his Valentine/Amor/Pscyh/Anteros

-His Lilith trine my Sun/Juno/Sapprho and kikunk Valentine/Mars

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darkdreamer
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posted November 30, 2007 11:30 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Venus de India,

thank you for that article. I have read this story before, and I still don`t know how to interprete Lilith-contacts in synastry. But I think whatever effect they have, it will be a rather deep impact.

I did a short analysis for the two music-men, and it`s interesting, there is a lot of midpoint-action with the Lilith (I used the true Lilith).


Music-man1:
my Lilith opposes his Uranus and Osiris
My Lilith conjuncts his Kaali and Siva

my dr LIlith opposes his dr Venus
my dr Lilith opposes his dr Sun / Moon-mp
my dr Lilith conjunct his dr ERos / Psyche-mp
my Lilith opposes his Isis / Osiris-mp

his LIlith opposes my dr Mars
his Lilith conjunct my dr DSC
his dr Lilith conjuncts my Eros / Psyche-mp
his dr Lilith opposes my dr Saturn and my dr Eros

Also, the composite LIlith falls exactly onto my True Node, and is also conjunct my ASC and Neptune.

With Music-man 2:
my Lilith exactly conjuncts his Sun/Moon-mp (and is sextile to both planets)
my dr Lilith exactly conjuncts his dr Karma
my dr Lilith opposes his Osiris
my dr Lilith opposes his dr Mars

his Lilith conjuncts my dr Mars
his Liilith conjuncts my dr ASC
his Lilith conjuncts my dr Amor
his dr Liilith opposes my dr Chiron
his dr Lilith is trine my dr Karma


the Composite Lilith is conjunct my ASC-ruler and square my NN
the dr Composite Lilith is exactly conjunct my Part of REincarnation and his Valentine, and widely opposes our synastric Mars (his) Pluto (mine) conjunction.
Composite Moon is conjunct his natal Lilith.

Quite some LIlith-action I think.
What got my attention mostly was:
My dr Lilith exactly conjunct his draconic Karma and my tropical Karma and also conjunct my dr Psyche.

Gotta think about this one.


DD

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alvarella777
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posted November 30, 2007 05:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My very special one has his SUN (in his 12th house) cj. my LILITH (in my 9th house).

It definitely feels "intense" - and "uncontrollable", at least for me, the LILITH-person.

I just replied to the VENUS-PLUTO-threat, since we have his VENUS cj. my PLUTO as well. In both cases I should be the "stronger" or "more dangerous" person - but it feels just the opposite!!!

I don't know which aspect adds stronger to my feelings of "being overpowered" ..

Here's what I just wrote:

Although I am the PLUTO(((LILITH)))-person, supposed to be "strong one" ((("dangerous one"))), I feel overpowered by him/his affection, feel insecure, mistrustful, threatened and frightened. I would like to (re-)gain control - not controlling "him", rather controlling myself (my feelings). I also do invest too much time, feeling, pondering and wondering into this love-thing, too much for my liking. Currently I have the feeling that this guy could never satisfy my needs - although I crave no one else, but him! I learn a lot about myself, these days. And I feel weaker than I thought I could ever be. And all that makes me remarkably aggressive sometimes ...

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