posted November 06, 2012 12:32 PM            

ANYBODY can answer but I'd ESPECIALLY like IQ's view on these, please.

I'll be using examples from things run into recently, so they may not all be from the same chart. Assume good regular synastry for a starting point with all these. Something like at least 3 exact contacts for the minimum IQ wants. I find "My/their" more easy to read than "A/B" so I'll just write it out like that whether it is or isn't me.

I'm unclear on how much significance to put on each factor like this, or how much Draconic contacts to natal might signify just past life contact or something similar? Could I get some enlightenment here, please?

1. LINKED CONTACTS

My Jupiter conj. their Sun.
Their Juno conj. my Moon (+ 3 opp. my Sun).

My drac. Jupiter conj. my Sun-Tutenchamun.
Their draco Jupiter-Kleopatra-Tutenchamun 1 conj. my Sun-Tut/Dr. Jupiter, opp. my Moon.
My drac. Kleopatra trine their Jupiter-Kleo-Tut.

My Juno (trine their Valentine) and drac. Juno trine their Zeus.
Their dr. Juno 2 conj. my Zeus.

There are clear mythology circles going on there so it seems pretty significant even if the contacts go via a twist. Right?

So what about the following kinds?

Their Venus conj. my name in their chart.
Their name in MY chart conj. THEIR Mars.
My draco Valentine conj. their Venus-myname.
My Amor trine their Mars.

Both people have Mars square Venus in their own charts, so their M-V square ties in both names + my Valentine + Amor.

Male-female balance brought in by making the aspect appear again through synastry? I assume something similar with Eros-Psyche, Isis-Osiris or any mythological pairing would work fine as well, but with Venus and Mars it's maybe more present even to people not into asteroid finesses?

My Isis 2 conj. their Osiris. (Composite ASC in between.)
My Isis conj. their McBride T-SQUARE their Briede opp. Groombridge
Their Briede 3 conj. my Groombridge, my dr. Groombridge 1 trine their Briede.
My Osiris-Amor conj. their Groom square their Amor.
My Draconic Osiris 2 conj. their Mars + 1 opp. their Draco Isis.
My Briede opp. my Groom (mirror to their T-square?)

2. SIMILARITY OR MIRRORING IN CHARTS

As mentioned above Mars square Venus is there for both parties, and there are natal opposition aspects for BOTH with the Briede-Groom-McBride-Groombridge quad.

It's said it's good if two people's own charts have certain similarities for ease in relating. How would it further make two people relate to each other if their charts have equal, other, similar but mirroring aspects? I'll use a further example and hope it's clear.

My Valentine conj. Penelope.
Their Valentine conj. BOTH their Ulysses AND Odysseys around it.

My Amor conj. my Osiris.
Their Amor conj. their Isis.

QUESTION:
Would such people seem more of a possible match even WITHOUT direct contact between the Valentine or Amor groupings? The charts have mirroring things or something as if missing, so wouldn't the other person be felt as the so called "missing piece" and complement through the very things they love and want in their life?

If there IS contact between such groupings I'd call twinflame potential big time, but IF there is NO (apparent) direct contact between such groups AND yet okay to good synastry otherwise? How much could such internal qualities make two people feel that the other is something they want in their lives?

The "missing piece" mirroring is something I recently stumbled on through other trigger charts. Subsequently I now really want to meet someone with the missing piece to my equation, and I never knew that was what was obviously missing until I saw the mirroring piece in someone else.

3. NATAL TO DRACONICS + VICE VERSA

Examples:

My DNA trine their ASC.
My drac. ASC opposite their DNA.
My draco DNA square their DNA.
Their dr. DNA 1 trine my DNA.

Which way do things like these work again? It's good that there is an aspect both ways, but it's not a clear natal/tropical level regular double whammy of soulmate pair asteroids. Say, Psyche conj. Cupido and then the other's Cupido square Psyche. Would such a thing have more weight on its own compared to a draconic pattern like this?

Compared to the linked aspects, does a factor like this on its own count less, equally or more than a regular double whammy for this having two levels? All depending on the asteroids in question?

The example also ties to the above mirror charts and linked aspects, anyway, with:

Their Union conj their drac. DNA.
My drac. Union trine my DNA + conj. their ASC.
My drac. ASC trine their Moon.
My Union trine my Moon.
My drac. Moon trine their ASC + (their drac. Moon conj my DNA).

Any effect is amplified through further links and ties, of course, but say there is ONLY (good) contact on the tropical level? Great for now, but no soulmate potential if you're after old ties?

And then contact on tropical level + one person's draconic to the other's natal?

Thirdly, contact from both people's tropical to draco + back?

I'm just trying to make some sense of how much weight or stock to put on all the things. How much do people feel synastric draconic contacts? Assuming the people know at least a little about "spiritual" levels in their life, too, not just football or beer.

4. ANTISCIA?

Quick example here. IQ's listed the "Love Signs" Antiscia somewhere I think, linking Ari-Sco, Leo-Can, Gem-Vir, Tau-Lib, Cap-Aqu and Sag-Pis instead of Ari-Vir, Leo-Tau and the rest of how the Antiscia/Solstice Point mirrors normally go. I can see both options at a glance in my head but I don't know if anybody uses Antiscia much here in general.

My Jupiter is Antiscia conj. their NN.
My NN's Antiscia 1 conj. their Jupiter.
Their Valentine "Love Signs" 'scia 2 conj. my NN.

Where would you rate Antiscia contacts between two people's regular charts? And if it's Antiscia to Draconic spots? Too far out for most people? Is 2 degrees too big an orb for Antiscia?

What if it's those A) WITH or B) WITHOUT all the earlier Jupiter-Juno-Zeus hoopla on top? Ignore Antiscia unless the asteroids contacts are there on other levels as well?

What about the earlier Isis-Osiris link pattern IF it's also:

My ASC conj. my Antiscia Isis.
Their ASC opp. their "Love Signs" 'scia Isis ?

I'm mostly asking because my natal Siva and Parvati don't seem to be doing much, but draconic Siva is conjunct the Antiscia of Parvati and my draco Parvati is the Antiscia of my Siva. I'm putting stock on it because I also have Antiscia Rudra 2 opp. Kaali and vice versa, so I know things like these do something at times.

Where do you others rate things like Antiscia?

posted November 06, 2012 12:54 PM            

I checked where my McBride was again and it's "Love Signs" 'scia square my Isis and conj. their Briede. so it further activates their T-square or fits into the pattern through the shadow charts.

posted November 07, 2012 12:38 PM            

Btw, I consider the aspects below more something to learn from in general for me, not necessarily the be-all and end-all of potential in synastry with some random partner.

I apologize for so many examples but the linked aspects don't get much discussion anywhere else it seems. I can obviously find them and see patterns in charts, but how much significance is there compared to other things? How often would nearly everything start to mirror-link to other themes as it's starting to with these examples here now?

FURTHER LINK EXAMPLE:

Celtic god of light + his partner, god of thunder + transportation, the horse + fertility goddess and the sky god link to Pluto-Proserpina-Persephone themes.

Is something like that only an indication of possible past lives as Celts/Romans, or do tentative Valentine links + Nodes automatically elevate such above that? Proserpinas tie to IC, Pluto + Persephone Nodes, and the Celtic ones do another merry dance with it all. Epona has a link to Demeter as a mare (mounted by Poseidon) on Wikipedia, so in light of the aspects that seemed interesting, too.

Assume one person has Pluto-NN.
My Vesta-Belenus-MC conj their 1 Ari Valentine opp their Proserpina.
Belenus is the exact aspect. Also opp my 3 Lib Persephone conj their Proserpina.
My Belisana conj their Pluto-NN-DSC, trine their Union. Antiscia of my Jupiter.
My Proserpina conj their Belenus.
My Pluto 2 opp their Vesta.

Their drac Belisana trine my Valentine.
My dr. Belenus conj my ASC, dr. Persephone conj DC.
My dr. Belisana square their Vesta-Moon-Ceres.

My Persephone trine their Jupiter (2 from my DSC) conj the Antiscia of my NN.
They're a Pluto-NN with Valentine opp Proserpina, with Karma conj Persephone-Poseidon.
I have Persephone trine (or opp) NN via Antiscia, my dr. Valentine sext Proserpina.
Their Persephone-Karma-Poseidon opp my Karma square my Nodes.

Their dr. Persephone conj my Epona-Minerva-Ishtar-Maria, square my Isis.
My dr. Persephone trine my Pluto (which is sext my ASC-Taranis).
My dr. Proserpina square my Epona + their dr. Persephone.
Their Epona on my SN, my dr. Epona trine my SN.
Their dr. Epona conj. their MC + opp my dr. Proserpina.

My drac. ASC-Taranis trine their Moon-Vesta.
My dr. Sun sext their Taranis.
My Antiscia Sun opp. their Taranis conj my Union (+ 'scia Moon by 2).

My dr. Toutatis conj. my Osiris.
Their Toutatis conj. their Osiris, conj. my Isis.
Their dr. Toutatis-Osiris conj. my Valentine.
Their "Love Signs" Antiscia Toutatis-Osiris conj. my Pluto.

Dr. Junos are both square and sext-trine the other's nodal axes.
This still with the Antiscia Jupiters touching the other's NN.
Valentine trine my Juno.

--------------

Further MIRROR PATTERN links:

I'm my name-asteroid conj Pomona.
They're their name-asteroid conj Vertex.

My drac VX conj their Sun, inconj. their VX.
Their dr. VX trine my VX.
My dr. Pomona square their Pomona.
Their dr. Pomona conj my ASC.

My Antiscia Pomona is conj. their VX.

I'm a Venus 1,5 conj Kaali 2 sq. Mars.
They have Mars conj Rudra square Venus.

Is such a mirror thing alone good compatibility by natal charts? Would there be potential attraction and recognition between such male-female pairs even WITHOUT seen linking aspects? There are links below, but otherwise.

My Rudra-Aphrodite is opp their Sun.
My Antiscia Venus (+ Kaali) conj their Sun (opp the Rudra).
My Antiscia Rudra 1 conj their ASC, inconj. my Parvati.
My dr. Rudra is opp my natal Sun.
My Sun is square their Kaali.

Their Kaali 1,5 conj my NN.
My Venus-Kaali is 1-3 conj their Pluto-NN-DSC.
My drac. Venus-Kaali square their Moon.
My Pluto 2 conj my Parvati (Parv inconj their ASC).
My Pluto inconj. their Parvati.
Their Parvati square my ASC, trine my Venus-Kaali.
My Siva 2 trine their Mars-Rudra.
My dr. Pluto 2 conj their dr. Rudra-Mars.
My dr. Kaali opp their dr. Siva.

Composite has Kaali 2 conj NN.
Comp. Kaali 1 opp Osiris + trine Atlantis, I think.

And if you take the "Love Signs" Antiscia of 1 Ari (Belenus, their Valentine) you should end up at 28 Sco 1 conj their Kaali/square my Sun.
My dr. Valentine conj their Venus + trine their Siva + square their Mars-Rudra.
Their dr. Mars-Rudra sext my Valentine.

posted November 07, 2012 02:32 PM            

However, of course we can use everything to "link" aspects, and to a degree it might be so; but from a certain point on it all starts getting arbitrary.

That is why currently I am only using these objects as "links":

ASC, Moon, Saturn, Pluto, True Node, KARMA, UNION, SPIRIT, ANGEL, AMOR, VALENTINE

But having said that others might play their role as well. Like if you have a linked aspect through Jupiter, it might signify that the connection has the flavour of support and mentorship; or through Chiron, wounding and healing might be indicated.

However the linked aspects need to be very tight in orb (not more than 2 degrees, and maybe 3 degrees for conjunction). And it need to be tropical aspects in the first asessment.

Also I wouldn´t use other soulmate pair asteroids as linked objects, UNLESS there is a pattern of two pairings overlaying each other.
I just looked at a synastry where an ISIS/OSIRIS synastric aspect was coupled with an PENELOPE/ODYSSEUS aspect.

posted November 07, 2012 02:39 PM            

However, IQ followed Tobey`s reasoning that the beginning of the zodiac should actually be at 00 leo, and if you use this axis of 00 Leo to 00 Aquarius as mirror-axis, you end up with the pairings of:

Leo-Cancer
Virgo- Gemini
Libra - Taurus
Scorpio - Aries
Sagittarius- Pisces
Caprifcorn - Aquarius

These do make a lot of sense, as you can see these reflect the old ideas of a day and a night ruler, being ruled by the same traditional planet except for Leo-Cancer.
However, since antiscia are definied as mirrored through the cardinal axis, we need to have a different name for these - I think we settled for "reflection-points".

Actually the mirroring through the 15 degrees of Taurus - Scorpio would make sense, too, as this is the axis that was the reference frame of when astrology began, coinciding with the placement of the fixed stars Antares and Aldebaran, which were used as reference axis by the Babylonians.
However, mirroring through this axis gives the exact squares to the antiscia-axis, I think.

posted November 08, 2012 03:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I think linked aspects are very interesting and quite telling, as they specify the expression of the theme.

... currently I am only using these objects as "links":

ASC, Moon, Saturn, Pluto, True Node, KARMA, UNION, SPIRIT, ANGEL, AMOR, VALENTINE

However the linked aspects need to be very tight in orb (not more than 2 degrees, and maybe 3 degrees for conjunction). And it need to be tropical aspects in the first assessment.

Also I wouldn´t use other soulmate pair asteroids as linked objects, UNLESS there is a pattern of two pairings overlaying each other.

However I still think the strongest aspects will be direct aspects between soulmate pairings which are additionally in strong aspect to the luminaries, angles or nodal axis.

---

I'll read more thoroughly later, but I think everything (non-theoretical) above was from exact to around 1,5 degrees unless otherwise specified. Hence the interest. I feel it's stretching even with 2-3 degrees at times, although mentally note certain mirroring even if one pair wasn't in orb.

I'm aware direct contact will be easier to see or feel, hence the question about how examples like the above may work. The mirroring natal patterns and how such might make the other feel like a complimentary person are possibly of more interest.

The "Love signs" "Antiscia" technically isn't Antiscia, no, but that was the vibe or gist of the starting point with that back in the day from what I recall. I didn't get as far as "reflection point" names nor find the post again, so went with what little I remembered of them as the reference.

Antiscia listed are actual Antiscia unless otherwise specified. Since they're example charts it's also in this case a bit of a theoretical question about how, e.g., the Roman/Plutonian/Celtic themes mixing with Valentine and Nodes would, theoretically, work in general, whether it's in this case also via the Draconic level or not.

In the example I think I forgot it's not just natal Belenus conj Valentine, it's Valentine trine draconic Belisana as well, but I know it's not a double whammy on the immediate level. The interconnection exists though, hence the interest in what it is.

We can assume a similar chart on a tropical level equally if we like, and with that I imagine those would be strong features when one has Celtic ties to their ASC and the other Plutonian. It seems to make sense to assume that if there is further contact between such people, the two themes will be entangled in their charts.

Am I being even half clear about what I'm honing in on with these? The Venus-Kaali/Mars-Rudra aspects are in the tropical charts of the people in question, for example, so with the planets in question they have such flavours in whatever those planets deal with. The rest with synastry is add-ons, but if there are several mirroring or complimenting patterns in their natal charts, is there recognition of the "Other" (Twin?) in such themes perhaps?

posted November 08, 2012 09:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
As for the "antiscia" you mentioned, those are not antiscia. Antiscia and contrascia are astronomically defined, mirrorpoints through the cardinal axis. ...

---

Darkdreamer discusses Antiscia nicely toward the bottom of the "Vesta in Synastry" thread, even if I think hers are about a degree off due to the minutes. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/000188.html

Thank you again for the reflection point name, I'll try and look up the relevant thread to read again when I can.

I'm veering into many directions with my questions and possibly trying to dumb them down to basic ones I should ask, too. Not sure, so I hope there's just some general discussion about the linkages and the "missing pieces" found in someone else's chart if nothing else. The hunch says they'd matter greatly, at least if activated.

As for Antiscia in my case, all my childhood friends tied to me via the Antiscia of Sun or ASC, for example, so I'm going to assume Antiscia feature strongly at least in my case. If there's something at 1 or 23 Scorpio I'm going to veer to it. The Scorpio possibly more so because it's the opposition, my NN is Scorpio and the Sun/Moon midpoint has its opposition in Scorpio likewise.

I had little astrological idea why a Leo, Cancer and Virgo should be friends when still on Sun Sign levels as a kid, and it wasn't until I learned about the Solstice points that everything locked into place. The closest one to me had not only their ASC-DC Anti/contrascia my Sun but Suns Antiscia trine and Moon Antiscia Venus, for example.

Likewise there's a more recent Internet-friend who's the only one who's remained an actual friend out of a group of 10-15 people I interacted with maybe ten years ago. There's little to suggest we'd bond more so in the basic planets, but like clockwork their ASC is 23 Sco again and their MC Antiscia trine my Sun.

The natal chart has little to suggest ties otherwise, but the Draconic chart flares up with things like their drac. Moon opp my Sun likewise so how much it's Antiscia angles and Sun and how much our also vibing from the Draconic gets unclear.

That we'd vibe with Draconics as well is an idea probably stemming more from the topics discussed though, even if even THAT could be explained by the fact that my Atlantis + Wisdom are conj their Sun-Mercury with THEIR Atlantis conj my Sun in return. Trust me, it ranges from discussions about the nature of reality to myths about the naga civilizations of the Himalayas and anything in between. Hence my rather trusting asteroids, Antiscia and Draconic charts all to know their business in my case. ;P

posted November 08, 2012 10:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Darkdreamer discusses Antiscia nicely toward the bottom of the "Vesta in Synastry" thread, even if I think hers are about a degree off due to the minutes. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/000188.html

---

I know. I wrote it.

posted November 08, 2012 10:13 AM            

For me Antiscia are very significant, though in a more "underhanded" ways; it is like an undertow, sucking you into each other almost. But it may not be so easy to understand on the surface why that subtle magnetism is there. Of course the orbs have to be tight there, after all we are talking about POINTS, mirroring each other.

Draconics and linked aspects and all of that are important as well, vital even.

However, it is very important to have a systematic approach with them, nad always be aware of what you are comparing and what it means.

There is a difference if a connection happens on the draconic level or the tropical one.
And often I get the feeling, reading on here, that it is all meshed together, and to me it starts getting meaningless after a while.
What I find more important than isolated aspects is to identify the patterns, and I think that is what you intend to do, also.

posted November 08, 2012 11:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
found a quote of IQ

"Synastry Soul Mate Linkup Aspects are a very new study of mine. I have only seen it in 3 pairs, latest being today.
...

1. Karmic Objects:
Moon, Chiron, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto, Ast KARMA [Some may contend Uranus too]
2. Karmic Points: Asc and True Node
3. Love Asteroids: Valentine, AMOR, UNION
4. Soul Mate Asteroids: Psyche, Cupid, Eros, Persephone, Juno, Isis, Osiris, Siva and Parvati.

---

Thanks for the useful link. I've read that sometime and the Articles-links on his site, and apart from having Venus and Mars feature also in my examples think it's mostly been contacts with or through the things listed in this particular case, anyway.

However, I'd imagine that having something like DNA as the linking factor between say Adonis and Ishtar could suggest something about "origins" or what ties to core levels of your being; at least if Sumeria, Baghdad, Mesopotamia, Babylon, Babel, Euphrates, Tigris, Gilgamesh or something like those also showed up. Or then DNA suggests something entirely else, my not knowing for sure and definitely not knowing what a theme tying to DNA properly means.

Say it's asteroid Child that links the places or Ishtar/Astarte-Adonis. Potential for adoption from such regions? Having been the child of the other person in such times or places? Hard to say. If Child features with the Egyptian one then I want to check out Horus specifically as well, of course.

I'm still not even entirely sure what a regular Child trine Child would definitively mean. I just assume it's to do with the ease of potentially having children and/or ease in relating to the other's children maybe or the child within or any mixture thereof. I vibe and probe into possible meanings, intuit more than have facts when it comes to these things.

The example case flares up with most of the places mentioned tying to each other, that's all. Just contacts within a theme though (apart from Mesopotamia conj Valentine for one person suggesting the theme could work for their compatibility checks, too?), so nothing linked or unusual otherwise.

Looking at what IQ wrote there, he talks about Pluto-Parvati style pairings, too, for example. If a natal Venus-Kaali person also has a natal Parvati-Pluto, going by that alone something tying the Roman to the Indian themes may feature in such a person's synastry already, anyway. Or so the assumption goes, leading to the examples and wanting to know more about how things like that would work.

posted November 08, 2012 11:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
You bring up very interesting points, I sadly have just too much going on on my own mind to be able to focus properly on your questions. It is not that I am ignoring them, just that I do not have the time or focus to be delving into them as deeply as I would like.

For me Antiscia are very significant, though in a more "underhanded" ways; it is like an undertow, sucking you into each other almost. But it may not be so easy to understand on the surface why that subtle magnetism is there. Of course the orbs have to be tight there, after all we are talking about POINTS, mirroring each other.

There is a difference if a connection happens on the draconic level or the tropical one.
And often I get the feeling, reading on here, that it is all meshed together, and to me it starts getting meaningless after a while.
What I find more important than isolated aspects is to identify the patterns, and I think that is what you intend to do, also.

---

Oh, it's been nice not to just chatter to myself about my assumptions, anyway. :P Nothing on the boards is Mandatory Participation and real life takes precedence but it's always nice to have something further to vibe off of, too.

As for your "I know. I wrote it".... A past identity? I'm catching up here. "The missing piece to find your twin soul" bit flared up for me as well since Antiscia have featured so strongly in my synastry with people known longer over the years.

The gravitation pull has tied mine and whoever else's Antiscia together more than regular synastry so I don't know if I'm just walking in my "shadowlands" more strongly or what. I'm not sure it needs to be understood, it's just something that is there. You "fit" with the other without thinking, if talking your puzzle pieces. I can highly recommend Antiscia contacts to people anytime, but I should probably process all my Antiscia feelings in your other post. Thanks for that as well.

Yes to the difference on or keeping track of what level it happens on. However-#-umpteenth, I'm also asking about how much a connection from Draco to someone else's natal would tap someone to pay attention to whatever it is?

It does start to get complicated or a more of a three-dimensional picture when you add in more layers or levels and if there aren't enough contacts to begin with the rest may not have anything TO touch, as others have said. Going by the current faze in cinemas, I can do without the 3D-movies instead of enjoying the regular good old movies I can see without having to wear heavy goggles.

In astrology I just do want all the layers there to look at or to be aware of at least, even if it weaves a complicated mesh and I then leave out the extra toppings once I know what's what and where and how. These are the "special" case additionals to the asteroids and many people don't even use asteroids, obviously.

So this is more of a "Can I have some extras cleared out to me as well, please? I'll go back in the corner if you just tell me once --- until I have more questions about a further layer. Honest," style question approach here. That and talking also to myself to try and clarify my intuiting. I'm likely to phrase things as half questions even if fairly sure about the meaning of something.

posted November 08, 2012 01:24 PM            

There are threads I have been entertaining just myself. lol

"As for your "I know. I wrote it".... A past identity?"
Yes, I`ve been Darkdreamer and DD on here before, but felt the need to change my username when I came back here.

The funny thing is when I picked the username I did not even have a clue that she was also the goddess of astrology. lol
Noone`s going to believe that that it did not happen intentionally, but I just woke up one morning with that name on my lips. And I remembered that when thinking about a new username, so I picked it, or it picked me, who knows?

"I'm catching up here. "The missing piece to find your twin soul" bit flared up for me as well"
Yes, it would make sense to me when we define twinsouls as complimentary pieces of the whole.

The circle is usually seen as a "whole" - 360°.
And if you add the contrascia points to each other (or use 00°Aries-Libra as mirror-axis) they always add up to 360° - a full circle!
If you do that with the antiscia (mirror axis Cap-Cancer) they add up to 180°.

"so I don't know if I'm just walking in my "shadowlands""
Yeah, well, I think the term "shadow" for antiscia/contrascia is unfortunate, as it often implies a negative tilt, which I do not think is there. It is just a reflection of what you are not but maybe need to be complete.

If you just look at the antiscia table here:

Aries - Virgo: Yang fire - Yin-earth
Libra - Pisces: Yang air - Yin water

the PERFECT completion in terms of elements.
Opposition, as magnetic they are, are not REALLY complimentary nor are conjunctions as they combine either Yin with Yin or Yang with Yang.
They might be complimentary though if combining complimentary objects like Isis-Osiris for example.

"You "fit" with the other without thinking, if talking your puzzle pieces."
Yes.

" I'm also asking about how much a connection from Draco to someone else's natal would tap someone to pay attention to whatever it is?"
I am not quite sure what you are asking here? How the effect i? How one would feel it?

" and if there aren't enough contacts to begin with the rest may not have anything TO touch, as others have said."
That was what I meant.

I may be boring, but I stress that contacts to tropical chart are necessary. For me the tropical chart displays the "physical level of experience" or the "manifestation plane"; if there is not contact to here, no matter what spiritual connection you have or emotional or past life one, it will not manifest in everyday terms.

I have had some thoughts about the various planes of existence before, I need to look and find the thread.

" Going by the current faze in cinemas, I can do without the 3D-movies instead of enjoying the regular good old movies I can see without having to wear heavy goggles."
Yeah, no 3 D necessary for me, actually I think it would distract me. And no I never saw "Avatar".

"So this is more of a "Can I have some extras cleared out to me as well, please?"
What do you mean?

posted November 08, 2012 01:27 PM            

""The three planes:
-----------------
tropical: the physical plane; present incarnation, EARTH
Draco: emotional roots; past incarnations, MOON
helio: spiritual plane; either future incarnation, or operating out of the context of time, SUN

the helio is also said to relate to the Higher Self, and as twin flames have the same Higher Self (at least that is what I repeatedly read about it), the helios are a MUST in twin flame relationships.
As Draco`s are relating to the Moon and soul-connections, soulmates and Twinflame also MUST have strong Draco connections I guess

(1) strong tropica, strong Draco and strong helio:
° twinflames
° probably ready for reunion on earth, as shown by the connections to tropical

(2) weak tropical, strong Draco and strong Helio
° possibly twinflames, who are not yet ready or missing opportunities to be reunited in this earthly incarnation, though their souls and spirits will resonate with each other still
(maybe these will bring the most pain)

----------------------------------------------

(3) strong tropical, strong Draco, weak helio
° probably no twinflames, as the spiritual or Higher Selves connection is weak
° soulmates with strong soulattachment plus shared past lives
° reconnecting to either solve unfinished karma (esp. if the Draconic aspects are challenging) or because the past shared joy drew them together again

-------------------------------------------

(4) strong tropical and strong helio, weak Draco

this one puzzles me a lot

° possibly spiritual guides for each other
° it could be that there is no emotional attachment, so they would not be soulmates; or it could be that it just means there has been no past life stuff at work
(it depends how we interprete the Draconics I guess. Is it JUST past life stuff, or is it also relating to a soul-connection?)

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(5) weak tropical, strong Draco, weak helio
° possibly soul- or karmamate with emotional attachment and shared past life experiences
° since the tropical is weak, maybe no reconnection in this life, or mit might indicate that they need to take a "break" from each other

(6) weak tropical, weak Draco, strong helio
° spiritual connection is present, but maybe more like a "background program"
° there seems to be a separation from each other on the physical plane

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(7) strong tropical, weak Draco, weak helio
° Earthmates
° neither soulmates nor twinflames
° probably the start of a new cycle with new souls, maybe even from other soulgroups

(8) weak tropical, weak, Draco, weak helio
° "soulstrangers"

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Of course we would have to define what "strong" and "weak" means (imo, "weak" is rather a lack of aspects than challenging ones).

Also, there are still aspects in the tropical for example, that will show a soul-connection on the physical plane.
Like Moon/Pluto or Moon/ASC etc. for example." http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/210984-5.html

I can understand to want to look at all different perspectives and layers, and I think it is important to really get the pattern (and did you check the Persona charts? lol).

However as I said, if we are doing this it`s just important to really see the pattern emerge and not just see isolated aspects. The forest instead of the trees, if you know what I mean.

posted November 09, 2012 03:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The funny thing is when I picked the username I did not even have a clue that she was also the goddess of astrology. lol
Noone`s going to believe that that it did not happen intentionally, but I just woke up one morning with that name on my lips. And I remembered that when thinking about a new username, so I picked it, or it picked me, who knows?

"So this is more of a "Can I have some extras cleared out to me as well, please?"
What do you mean?

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I remember Ceridwen more as the potion-brewing sorceress or some such, and Gwydion (?) being born through slight cheating from a potion she'd meant for her ugly son. Welsh or Celtic things again though, I think.

I can sort of relate to the name thing though. I had the name Keela just pop up from nowhere a week or so before signing up here. It wasn't until later I learned that it means "beautiful, graceful" and is a Celtic or Scottish name I think.

Then once I'd been around here for maybe a week the Muses or Urania thread prompted me to remind myself about all those again, leading me to the three Graces through Thalia also being a Grace, conj my MC. I've by now again forgotten what the name of the youngest was, also known specifically as Charis, Grace, but one of her alternate names was also something like Kale (?), so the obvious source for Keelas and such when her name meant beautiful, too. Aglaia, Aglaea, was it? I forget. Aglaja asteroid.

Turned out that said Grace is conj my name asteroid (+ Pomona, Ceres, Varuna and a ton of other things) in any case. The third Grace is conj my NN, so with having all three significantly positioned and picking one for a username conj my own name, it's a bit of a "What am I supposed to know about the Graces then?"

posted November 09, 2012 04:51 AM            

MAIN PATTERN

which seems to suggest whatever reasons for our Karmas to be opposite and square my Nodes.

I never knew why I had Tisiphone conj Karma and square them another Fury Alekto with an asteroid called Armandhammer (of all things) on my SN conj ALGOL... but figured past life interpreters would go nuts with dramatic tragic interpretations. Not sure if that's some guy called Armand in reality, but once I saw the Arm and hammer with avenging figures tying to that and Algol it seemed a tad potentially significant.

Come in someone with Karma opp my Karma square my Nodes. Make me discover their Atlantis + Paris are on my NN. Then remind me that my Atlantis is opp my Helena.

Their Atlantis-Paris is 17'20' away from my Helena so at most it's half of a half of a ~72 degree contact at most, so not much on the general level APART from yet another mirroring pair in both charts. The other way completes the picture.

My Menelaus is 1 conj their Helena (Helena conj composite Sun).
My Paris 1 trine their Helena.
My Lust opp their Helena.
Their Lust 1 from the midpoint of my Paris-Menelaus.
Lust trine Lust.

My Megaira (the one avenging infidelities?) 6' trine my Helena.
My Nemesis 1 conj my Helena.
Their Menelaus 1 opp their Nemesis.
Their drac Megaira trine their Menelaus.

My Helena conj their Neptune.
Their Menelaus trine my Neptune.

My Tisiphone-Karma opp their Karma, square their Atlantis-Paris. It's also 1 opp my Paris, 1 sextile Menelaus.
Their draco Nemesis conj their natal Tisiphone.
Their drac Tisiphone conj their Atlantis-Paris on my NN, square my Tis. + Paris, opp my Alekto.
My Paris 1 opp and Menelaus sext my Karma-Tisiphone.
Their Paris sext their Karma, drac Menelaus 2 opp Tisiphone.

My Aphrodite 2 trine my Paris + Menelaus for a Grand trine. The same Aphrodite is opp their Sun to set it all in motion.
My drac Aphrodite opp my Sun + Karma, 2 conj my Paris.
Drac Aphrodite also 1 square my NN/their Paris-Atlantis AND composite Karma.

The Sabian for my NN and their Paris-Atlantis was something like "A Military Band Marching Noisily Through the Streets". Paris starting wars over shared lust with Helena? Sabian for my Karma was something about a new dawn or day after worse times or something, I forget the phrasing.

If you merely interpret Atlantis as the sinking catastrophe potential, that it ties to the Helena-Paris pair that were a catastrophe in the making doesn't bode too well. Tisiphone avenged murders from what I recall, Alekto social wrongs or anger or something, Megaira infidelities, Nemesis being the other sort of avenger.

How would people interpret something like that? Beyond such people needing to heal the themes involved?

How would you know who was married and ran off with the exciting irresponsible lover? If it's about taking turns in the roles, would that suggest that infidelity is the major no-no no matter how much Lust will beckon the pair to repeat the karmic past move?

So how do the "missing piece" mirrors also present in the charts fit in with all that IF it's merely a karmic pattern? How does it fit in that there's a Paris-Helena-Menelaus triangle pattern in the charts IF the people also have their Valentines waiting for their Odysseys/Ulysses or trying to get back to their Penelope?

BOTH the Homeric works feature strongly and it's the basic starting point or figure/pairs featured in both cases. One ties to Karma + Nodes, the other to Valentines, both are there. Heavy involvement several times over?

Or was it that there were two who should have been together but had difficulties in the form of one having a pre-existing husband/wife - so in weakness get rid of the third wheel and ignore the consequences?

If you look at the highly touted Atlantean past lives for another interpretation, the question of "What did we do, start a major war between factions by running off?" arises for such times, of course. With the NN/Paris-Atlantis Sabian and the Algol-SN the potential for even bigger atrocities seems there.

What people say of golden Atlantis or the good times would have twin flame pairs more so, so infidelity or wars certainly wouldn't fit in until later times. The crime of swiping someone's twin flame away for the first time? Helena and Menelaus certainly weren't any twin flame pairing though, her basically ending up married to him instead of Agamemnon by chance.

posted November 09, 2012 11:50 AM            

Their Menelaus
A Crystal Gazer
(Crystals tie to Atlantis, I note with great amusement. Much good it did there though if catastrophes still went about, anyway)

Their Lust
Through Imagination A Lost Opportunity Is Regained
(Are the Lust-contacts good for the people or not? It gets so wound up it's hard to see.)

Their Tisiphone, my Antiscia Sun
An Electrical Storm
(Weaponry? Stormy, anyway)

My Archaeopteryx-Victoria 8 Tau
A Fully Decorated Christmas Tree
CONJ
My Atlantis 9 Tau
A Red Cross Nurse

Their Megaira
A Symbolical Battle Between "Swords" And "Torches"
(Not just symbolic if it's choosing between two peole I imagine)

My SN, their Nessus
An Old Indian Woman Selling The Artifacts Of Her Tribe To Passerby

My Menelaus, their Isis
Frost-Covered Trees Against Winter Skies
(Nuclear winters or a Northern Menelaus? I'm just vibing as per IQ-style stuff, do ignore me ;P )

CONJ
Their Helena, comp Sun-Mars
A Gypsy Emerging From The Forest Wherein Her Tribe Is Encamped
(More tribal things?)

CONJ
Comp Venus
Through Bankruptcy, Society Gives To An Overburdened Individual The Opportunity To Begin Again

My Megaira 9 Can
A Large Diamond In The First Stages Of The Cutting Process

My Saturn
An Indian Girl Introduces Her White Lover To Her Assembled Tribe
(More tribes or different "factions" again)

My Karma-Tisiphone
The Luminescence Of Dawn In The Eastern Sky

My Pluto, their Nemesis (1 opp their Menelaus)
A Blazing Fireplace In A Deserted Home

My Aphrodite-Rudra
A Butterfly With A Third Wing On Its Left Side
(This is supposed to be good otherwise I think, but third wheels come to mind)

My Nemesis
A Calm Lake Bathed In Moonlight
CONJ
My Helena, 8'59 Sco
A Dentist At Work
(Cavities from too much sugar? Something to fix?)

My NN, their Atlantis-Paris
A Military Band Marches Noisily On Through The City Streets

My Lust-Ariadne
A Sculptor At His Work
(I like the Lust Sabians, but with the rest even remolding clay might not be enough?)

Their Saturn
A Secret Meeting Of Men Responsible For Executive Decisions In World Affairs

My Paris
A Garage Man Testing A Car's Battery With A Hydrometer
(He blinded me with science?)

posted November 10, 2012 06:08 AM            

Reasoning why Moon and Saturn-persona chart:

First of all Moon persona chart is the complimentary to the tropical chart in a way, as our tropical chart really is the Sun persona chart.

Other reasons:

posted November 10, 2012 09:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Personally I love Persona charts, esp. of Moon and Saturn.

First of all Moon persona chart is the complimentary to the tropical chart in a way, as our tropical chart really is the Sun persona chart.

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What all do you like to compare a Moon (or any) persona chart to? One person's Moon persona chart to the other's Saturn persona? All levels one at a time with a comparison to tropical first? Helio still for higher clues?

For example, their Moon persona chart throws their Valentine conj my Isis, Osiris conj my Sun with Isis 4 degrees from them, 2 opp my Moon? Saturn persona has the ASC of it + Isis opp my Osiris AND Atlantis conj their Karma. Emotional level ties strengthened with Moon maybe, but how much do you check with Persona charts in your case?

My Moon persona chart has Osiris conj their Moon and Atlantis on my SN opp the above Paris-Atlantis hulabaloo, hmh. Saturn persona has Osiris conj their Isis-Helena, ASC opp Isis trine my own Osiris. Karma + Jupiter on my SN, Atlantis opp their Saturn.

Would a possible karmic level thing reflect the most through a Saturn persona level perhaps? Both Saturn persona charts have Isis on ASC/DC, for example, with Isis-Osiris contacts to the natal.

posted November 10, 2012 09:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ail221:
I think if you have some soulmate aspects on the draconic chart and tropical chart you might want to look at harmonic charts to fill in those missing links.

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Someone advocated 13th harmonic for twinflame levels, but which ones do you recommend otherwise?

posted November 10, 2012 10:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Keela:
Someone advocated 13th harmonic for twinflame levels, but which ones do you recommend otherwise?

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posted November 10, 2012 10:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ail221:
13th harmonic works very well it worked for me though I am not sure were twinflames that's a little bit to heavy of a conception for me to think.

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I figure even if they exist/ed I'm not up for one just now and the chart poked at rather certainly shouldn't be one, so this may require something else for harmonics in any case. Something karmic?

posted November 10, 2012 10:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Keela:
I figure even if they exist/ed I'm not up for one just now and the chart poked at rather certainly shouldn't be one, so this may require something else for harmonics in any case. Something karmic?

I edited the earlier for my amusement at my 13th harmonic tying Isis and Osiris to Saturn in any case, so I think I'll keep an eye on all that if I remember. Theoretically the grand trine should bring in something nice for me sometime in any case, so here's to that. 13h Pluto's at 8'53 Cap there so I'll keep an eye out on transits, too.

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