posted December 04, 2013 05:39 AM            

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
I begun the relationship which became a marriage, yes. Of course, other factors will apply, but in my case, it was my first Saturn Return starting. Natal Juno is conjunct my Saturn (2°) in 1H. 2008. Engaged January 2010. Married January 2011.

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Have a T. Saturn sq. My natal Sun/saturn, and T. Pluto is opp. my Natal Venus , T. Neptune trine Natal Venus , T. Uranus sq. natal Venus ....progressed Venus conj. natal Sun/Saturn , and Prog. Mars/Jupiter conj. Exact to natal Venus!!!

I feel he will propose...!!! Thank you for replies!

posted December 04, 2013 05:45 AM            

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Originally posted by Gabby:
In the next couple years i have progressed Venus on my Sun and progressed Juno on my Moon....hopefully, it means something good is going to happen.

Im not sure what to think of saturn being there though....i hate to think of saturn restricting marriage, but it does tend to do that!
I think if marriage did happened under that aspect it would be very serious, bonding and for life! I think there might be challenges to overcome and work out first, distance, family issues or something to that affect but if worked through a very tightly bonded relationship would be the reward.

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posted December 04, 2013 08:58 AM            

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Wow! That's a lot to deal with, but in the end it's only you and him that matter!
At least you know what to expect and have been ready for it! If he isn't a cancer and puts his moms feelings above yours or is being controlled in some way by his family, the struggle will only bring you closer and force you to get to know each other better as you fight for each other and the relationship. If you stand together you stand tall, and can overcome!
I'm sure your not allowing your family's opinions to put a wedge between you, so it's quite possible that Saturn will only provide glue here....

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No we don't let the " family" influence us, plus my Sun/Saturn falls in his 7th , his Saturn Moon fall in my 7th, and we have a lot of beneficial aspects too my fav. His Juno exact. Trine by Jupiter , Eros sq. Psyche and Venus Trine Pluto exact!!! Plus the second chance lovers aspects Vertex sext. Pomona DW! so I am not so worried , he's a Taurus I seem to attract them with my Venus Cancer and tons of Gemini/Virgo placements!

posted December 04, 2013 03:15 PM            

I don't suggest doing that. Simply put.

More than likely, the influence of SATURN is very much the give-away, red flag here. I would also stress that, should you accept, your composite 12H is relatively free and clear with good aspects between the big 5, and some nice trine energy. Septiles can really help, too.

posted December 07, 2013 07:29 AM            

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Seriously, check the composite. If it's a 12H emphasis - wait.

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posted December 07, 2013 08:03 AM            

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
I don't mean transits. I mean a 12H emphasis in the composite.

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I know this one gets a real bad rap. But I can`t really confirm to that. I have seen too many composites with 12th house emphasis in beautiful loving stable relationships.
I found it interesting how many times especially Moon in 12th house came up.

Of course you have to consider the natals, individual personalities and the aspects falling onto the 12th house planets.

But to say a relationship is doomed just because it has personal planets in 12th house, is much too generalistic.

Having said that, if people tend to live in their head and project all possible kind of things onto others without taking into account what is actually happen in a relationship and how the other person actually ACTS around them, well in these instances a 12h house or Neptune emphasis is really bad news, as it will jsut strengthen that inclination.
But then again, if that should be the case, even a 1st house, 5th and 7th hosue emphasis in composite might not save the day.

Olgatheleo,
the themes around relationship and comitment will come up strongly for you in these times. It does not mean he will propose though. It could be, or actually it could be that you realize the comitment is lacking or onesided and some of you might break it off.

Or he will actually propose and you will have a very passionate engagement time.

The only thing you can really be certain of is that a huge transformation of your love life is happening . With that Mars/Jupiter to Venusa nd Uranus to Venus, be careful about posible flings and affairs. Or maybe you even might become pregnant again.
I think with Uranus there there will be some surprising developments around the corner. Personally though I always experienced Uranus-Venus as very uplifting.

It is interesting though how Saturn puts a brake on it.

Seriously if you have been in a relationship for a long time, something in that relationship might majorly change.
If that is a marriage or a break up, I can`t say.

EDIT:
I was just thinking. What house rules Venus in your chart?

Where does it fall?

posted December 07, 2013 08:06 AM            

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Originally posted by olgatheo:

The Only placement is the Moon & Karma conj. Exact. in Pisces but it makes an opp. exact to Eros ! The heavy part in composite is the SATURN/PLUTO CONJ. In Libra! We got together when Mars was in Libra last Summer, got pregnant ,lost the baby,Family issues. Now Mars will remain
in Libra for 6 months , probably the same issues, Family, career, home, children. we might leave(Country) by June next year, so maybe that's the Pluto/Saturn conj. manifesting!

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:shaking head:
Another Moon in Pisces in 12th ouse!
Are you gu sy actively seek each other out?
I have seen that so often, it is not always in Pisces, but more often than you would think.

posted December 07, 2013 09:20 AM            

His Sun,Mercury,Amor, Vesta fall in my 12th! ( IQ- said this would of been a deeply dedicated Love affair in past lifetimes. )

Did you mean With the transit of Uranus to my Venus would that manifest as a fling???
In Draconic composite we have Venus/Uranus conj. in Aquarius , and in the composite opp.I think ....It really doesn't matter to me! I don't even think/wonder about it, I believe we are free , I don't own him.
We have great chemistry , but it goes beyond that I feel Even with the 10 yr age diff. we have.

Really made me laugh with the 12th house Moon comment , that we seek each other out...Funny enough My father bought him over for Dinner cause they were doing business together and that's how we met! Instant recognition, I must admit,never felt anything like that..we started talking and the rest is history.

I know we have many trials, and Saturn doesn't feel restrictive it feel's familiar.

posted December 07, 2013 12:41 PM            

I'm obviously not saying end the relationship. I'm simply advising you DON'T get married.

I, on the other hand, HAVE seen a 12H-emphasis to be huge problem. I'm proof.

Of course, how the MOON is placed, its aspects, and so on, has much to do with how it's going to express.

The SATURN/PLUTO is a tough row to hoe, too. I have that with my Twinflame. Needless to say, we're VERY bonded, and have been through more drama than most. Not so much as my husband, though.

Do you and your beau cohabit concurrently? BTW: there can be a very strong push to marry in these composites. Oh, man, I wish I'd waited. At least a few years. But, I had my reasons. In hindsight, it was unwise.

It's not enough to divorce, mind. We DO love each other. We're making it work as best we can, considering.

So, voice of experience here.

What houses do MOON, SATURN and PLUTO rule?

posted December 07, 2013 12:59 PM            

Your 1H NESSUS-VENUS in CANCER could certainly push you to 'bully' yourself into settling down / having a family on some subconscious level. It's also interesting to see that NESSUS can be the 'consciousness shifter' when evolved.

As to having a 12H emphasis in SYNASTRY, that's altogether different. It's in the COMPOSITE which gives me pause. Specifically, VENUS-SATURN-SUN and PSYCHE.

We also have MOON on the IC conjunct JUPITER, with NEPTUNE-KARMA. I've recently noticed DEJANIRA is loosely conjunct NEPTUNE-KARMA. Yeaaahhh, that jives. I think the JUPITER there is the only reason why we stick it out. Really.

Our PLUTO is conjunct VALENTINE as well. End of the day, we do love each other, quite intensely, in fact.

I think 12H MOON-NEPTUNE can work, so long as your closets are clear - and I mean CLEAR. THAT was our mistake. It was all Mr Magoo up in here, and the hatboxes are still tumbling off the shelves.

We also have a tight VENUS-URANUS square.

12H VENUS is 9R / 2R, which is curious; it mirrors my own. Just LEO rather than VIRGO. Same for SATURN; 5R. 12H, though, and conjunct VENUS. SUN is, of course, 12R, so there's a loop there.

SATURN trines NEPTUNE very closely, too. That 7R / 5R tie indicates a strong link between kids and marriage. 7H is empty. It's rather clear we 'did it for the kid'. And I think that was okay. But in the long run ...

I'm just glad we're able to be so innovative as to explore new relationship styles. Can't imagine we would've 'survived' a traditional relationship / marriage.

posted December 07, 2013 01:16 PM            

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
MOON-KARMA in 12H? Yeah. I'd wait.

I'm obviously not saying end the relationship. I'm simply advising you DON'T get married.

I, on the other hand, HAVE seen a 12H-emphasis to be huge problem. I'm proof.

Of course, how the MOON is placed, its aspects, and so on, has much to do with how it's going to express.

The SATURN/PLUTO is a tough row to hoe, too. I have that with my Twinflame. Needless to say, we're VERY bonded, and have been through more drama than most. Not so much as my husband, though.

Do you and your beau cohabit concurrently? BTW: there can be a very strong push to marry in these composites. Oh, man, I wish I'd waited. At least a few years. But, I had my reasons. In hindsight, it was unwise.

It's not enough to divorce, mind. We DO love each other. We're making it work as best we can, considering.

So, voice of experience here.

What houses do MOON, SATURN and PLUTO rule?

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You met your Twinflame?? He is confirmed to be my Twinflame, I waited 7 yrs to find him, and when I finally gave up, Saturn transit over my Pluto/N.Node and he appeared on my doorstep with my Dad.
I admire you, it take courage to make something work. He wants the commitment..I just want a loving understanding partnership. Our families are like Romeo/Juliet totally despise one another, over money& prestige! That is the Saturn/Pluto for me.

Moon is in Pisces , Ruler in the 4th, SATURN RULER is in the 10th, Pluto ruler is in the 8th house.

posted December 07, 2013 01:25 PM            

no I meant, what house does Venus rule (which housecusps are in Taurus and Libra)?

"My Venus in Cancer in the 1st, And sq. to Pluto ! "
Sounds familiar. I have Venus in Capricorn in 1st house square Pluto on MC (in my case Venus rules 5th, 6th and 10th, and Pluto rules 5th and 11th house).

Since Venus and Pluto rule opposing houses in any chart (Taurus-Scorpio-axis), and you have a challenging aspect between Venus and Pluto nataly, I`d say pay attention to the involved axis.

In my case the fact they rule the 5th-11th house axis means that the giving/ expressing and receiving of love is a major theme in my life.

I have had Tr Pluto conjunct and Tr Uranus square my natal Venus (and square and opposite Pluto naturally) recently, as my Venus is on 6 Capricorn and my Pluto on 9 Libra. I suppose yours are not too far off of these degrees either, unless the orbs for your transits are wider than I usually use them.

The mentioned areas were definitely on display and ripe for an "overhaul" and with Venus in 1st house (and my pr ASC had just passed it, it is on 9 Caprciron now, and enjoys the conjunction of Pluto, repeating a natal aspect, just in my natal Pluto is sextile ASC), it expressed on the leve of my physical identity and appearance.
It totally changed. Well *I* totally changed it.
With the ruler of my 11th house of received love / appreciation, involved, it is interesting to note that I realized that actually many people really like me and show me their sympathy (sometimes in very subtle ways), if I only would let them!

That is how it has been for me.

Interestingly Juno also plays a role for me, with my pr Juno having just entered the same degree as my natal IC is on, thus bringing Juno-symbolism to the forefront (you need conjunctions to angles, or maybe Vertex for them to be centre stage and on a manifestation level).

ot sure what that really means in my own life, but I guess we will see. Maybe nothing. lol
I will keep an eye on the 15th and 16th january though, as tertiary progressed Moon will be on the same degree then, exactly trine tp Mars (and also trine my natal Mars). Let`s wait and see. lol

But then again there are no transits near 4 Aries then.

"His Sun,Mercury,Amor, Vesta fall in my 12th!"
my brother and his girlfriend have something similiar to that.

her Venus and Pallas fall into his 12th house in Pisces.

his Eros, Sun and ASC fall into her 12th house in Pisces.
his Venus, Mars and Vesta fall into her 12th house, too, but in Aries.

Their composite has Sun, Mercury, Venus, Ceres and Amor in 12th house in Pisces.
Sappho is also in 12th house, but in Aries.

They have a Moon-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio in 7th house, and Saturn is only 7 degrees off that Moon, also in Scorpio in 7th house.

They`ve been together for 8 years, cohabiting for at least 4 or 5 years.
Very stable relationship, and seem to be even more affectionate now after several years of togetherness than in the beginning. Or maybe just are more demonstrative about it.
They do tease and nag each other a lot (but then my brother knows that from watching my parents I suppose. lol), but at the end of the day they are super-devoted to each other, and also to their respective families.

They do have very different set of temperaments, but the combination seems to support both a lot.
Actually that is the same with my parents and my friends, they are very different in temperament, but just simply need each other and get each other, and are very affectionate with each other. my parents have the Moon inCancer in 12th house in composite; my friends have MOon in Pisces in 12th house.

I am not saying that any 12th house relationship will work out superbly; there are certain demands coming with it, as you have to drop all defenses, getting vulnerable and naked with each other, and many people do feel disinclined to do that.
Also the attraction and trust to be able doing that has to show up elsewhere in the composite and synastry.
If composaite and synastry makes a more defensive, distrusting impression, I suppose a 12th house emphasis is TOO much, and can get disastrous.

In these cases I mentioned however, there are some lovely aspects as well, and some stabilizing ones with Saturn.

My parents:
- her Venus conjuncts his Saturn and ASC
(her Mars conjuncts his Saturn and ASC more widely)
- her Saturn conjunct his Mars
- her Saturn conjunct his SN
- her Jupiter conjunct his NN
- her Sun oppsoite his Moon

my brother and his girlfriend:
- her DESC conjunct his Sun and ASC
- her Jupiter conjunct his Ceres
- her Moon conjunct his jupiter exact
(their firstborn Son has his Sun there, too)
- her Amor conjunct his Psyche
- her Saturn opposite his Moon
- her Sun conjunct his Juno
- her Mercury-Venus-Mars-Pluto conjunct his Pluto
- her Jupiter opposite his Venus and his Jupiter opposite her Venus widely

my brother and his girlfriend:
- her Sun conjunct his ASC
- her Moon conjunct his DESC
- herDESC conjunct his Pluto widely
- her NN conjunct his Valentine (and his NN sextiles hers)
- her SN conjunct his Moon-Jupiter-Uranus
- her Pluto conjunct his Saturn
- her Uranus conjunct his Moon-Jupiter
- her Venus conjunct his Eros exact

they have enough going on for them.

"Did you mean With the transit of Uranus to my Venus would that manifest as a fling??? "
Not necessarily. Just one possibility.

posted December 07, 2013 01:26 PM            

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Oh, and Ceri, I've completely ganked your format style. It's clearly superior.

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posted December 07, 2013 01:34 PM            

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:

I, on the other hand, HAVE seen a 12H-emphasis to be huge problem. I'm proof.

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It can be. Yes.
But I will repeat it AGAIN and AGAIN, like a broken record.
It is NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER just one position, placement or aspect alone.
Always look at the whole picture.

But yeah, 12th house planets do put high emands, ther eis a LOT at stake with this one. I know people do not see it that way usually, but the 12th house is a house of utmost intimacy, well, spiritual intimacy. It is of course different from the more personally oriented intimacy of the 4th house or the relationally intense one of the 8th house.
It is the "soul-soup"-kind of intimacy.
The one where you grant someone access to those corners in your soul, that are dusted, cause you usually do not even want to get down there yourself.
Actually, while with the 8th house you at least KNOW your demons, and what you do not want to show anyone, with the 12th house you never know what is bubbling up to the surface. It will hit you sideways yourself.
And then someone comes and he SEES all these sides of yourself, triggers them, oh the FEAR, the HORROR.

Anyway, personally I find that the softer planets in 12th house like Moon and Venus can be an emotionally very valuable thing (they still put their demands on you), however the more masculine outer-oriented planets, especially Mars, can create real havoc down there. You know how Mars is. Bull and china. does not go too well together.
Might touch and bring up al these anger-issues you deny you even have.

Someone bringing up the invisible feelings of love and affection and devotion - well could be worse (depending on the aspects involved), though could get a bit sticky there. Soul-soup tends to do that. make you swim in it like there is nothing else to do.