posted August 29, 2014 05:54 AM            

I hope you don't mind my starting a new thread; there's a lot of great development going on regarding general TISIPHONE's operation -- it's becoming a hot topic.

This is a specific pattern for which I'm seeing insight and I'd like to focus on it at the moment, as I think I'm making real progress now.

I realised upon your analysis that I was missing a crucial feature of this whole portrait: his TISIPHONE being conjunct HADES, 1°. (16°TAU40 and 17°TAU48, respectively.)

It's hardly incidental and eerily descriptive: HADES is the purification and eradication of evil. TISIPHONE, the principle of homicidal retribution. The way that hits on a certain point is absolutely astonishing. Further, this is in his 6H, and, as you've said, trine SIVA. But I forgot it's also conjunct his PLUTO, 1°30. I should note they're both 9H.

Something I learnt about him fairly soon was his being a man of principle as a sheer matter of course; its impact upon his daily life being almost profound in nature. It defined him -- to the point of restriction and a quiet misery.

While his principles were stifling him, he clung to them in a kind of desperation he'd adopted in his youth, when he embarked upon a thorough study of the nature of evil. He felt by understanding it intrinsically, he himself could avoid becoming evil. (His words.) Why he felt that way remains inexplicable, most of all to himself. He just knew adhering to an inextricable set of principles would prevent him from straying from his chosen path.

To say that he has a deep-seated, yet conscious desire to eradicate any and all evil which might cross his path -- is an understatement. It's a strange inclination he stifles, fortunately with ease, given the iron will and self-control he's developed over time.

That being said, while the TISIPHONE-HADES conjunction now makes sense to me, especially in his 6H, the grand question is still why it's conjunct my CHIRON.

I should mention it's also conjunct my PREY, 3°. I know very little of this asteroid, outside its being given to show where we may have the potential to fall victim to the influences affecting it. Is that true?

That gives me pause, leading me to question if it isn't my initial suspicion which was oddly most correct.

Would this potentially indicate that I was victimised -- as opposed to avenged -- by him? For over a decade, I've debated the answer in my head, finally coming to a sudden and shocking conclusion late last year that I very well could have been.

My reasoning is simple. It ties back to my TISIPHONE-LACHESIS, which is in my 11H (which, I admit, I don't understand its operation there) and his 8H, conjunct his SUN.

If LACHESIS is an 'interrupt' of a pattern, then I can see how actions led to my interrupting his own TISIPHONE-HADES, which seems strangely routine in its nature. And, again, it's my CHIRON and PREY here, in my 9H.

I've always thought that we ran afoul of each other's principles. This is something with which we had to again contend in 2010 shortly after meeting and trying to maintain a personal relationship. It failed then due to his principles disallowing such a bohemian and unconventional notion. Now, however, they don't.

Progress!

The sudden reality that he very well had gone through with it, that he had killed me, on principle, was something that -- frankly, still haunts and plagues me. It feels like a sharp and terrible betrayal that could reoccur at any minute. But I'm sure that's just 'the past talking', or something similar.

He does feel as if we're making amends to each other for wrong done in a previous life, if not several. What's better, the closer we become, and better we are to each other, he can't help but think that it's a kind of karmic reward. I was surprised to hear him say that.

So I suppose what I'm asking is, is it possible that's how this configuration is operating?

I ask because of the pervasive nature of the two conjunctions. And, while out of orb, mine is in 21° and 23° AQU in the Draco -- quite close to my SNODE, and squaring his TISIPHONE-HADES. (VESTA is involved, too, within orb: his exactly opposing my CHIRON, and mine squaring it, and his own VESTA, 2°. A kind of 'religious devotion' definitely plays a role here. And they're both natally 12H.)

Further, and lastly, his Draco conjunction goes to 11° and 12° ARI, conjunct his natal SATURN exactly, and by 1°. This is a hard, hard square to his 8H SUN, given the implication of heavy karmic debt.

Anyhow, your thoughts on my development of your previous analysis would be so very much appreciated. I feel I'm getting somewhere ... slowly. It also feels as if my soul is desperately trying to sort this out. For a long time, I've been unable to face the possibility. I don't know why. It doesn't change anything; he's no less the amazing person he is now.

And yet, there's something there, lurking, underneath it all. A strange yearning for catharsis and understanding. Closure, even. It's as if a part of me wants to know whatever it was, accept it, and turn the page. Or just close that book entirely and open a whole new one.

I hope that makes sense. It all became very unbelievable and difficult to process for me last year, when, simply running our general synastry, I discovered so many things -- and in HIS chart.

It's been ... complicated, and extremely surreal.

posted August 29, 2014 07:31 AM            

I jsut realized

my Tisiphone on 23 Cancer, exact on my DESTINN and conj Eros and Vertex on 21 Cancer

his tisiphone on 23 Aries, opposing his Pluto on 21 Libra.

my Tisi opposing his Venus on 25 Cap
his Tisi conjunct my Chiron on 20 Aries

And my Hades on 22 Taurus sextile my Tisiphone exact, opposing his uranus on 23 Scorpio, highlighting our Odysseus-penelope conjunction, with my Penelope on 19 Scorpio on his Valentine exact. his Odysseus on 21 Scorpio opposing my Odysseus on 21 Taurus on my Hades.

posted August 29, 2014 12:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
interesting, Indigo.

I jsut realized

my Tisiphone on 23 Cancer, exact on my DESTINN and conj Eros and Vertex on 21 Cancer

his tisiphone on 23 Aries, opposing his Pluto on 21 Libra.

my Tisi opposing his Venus on 25 Cap
his Tisi conjunct my Chiron on 20 Aries

And my Hades on 22 Taurus sextile my Tisiphone exact, opposing his uranus on 23 Scorpio, highlighting our Odysseus-penelope conjunction, with my Penelope on 19 Scorpio on his Valentine exact. his Odysseus on 21 Scorpio opposing my Odysseus on 21 Taurus on my Hades.

---

Yeah, Ceri, I'm getting the sense that there are a few disenfranchised soul-groups operating on the planet right now, with rather black marks on their history. In some sense, the wars on Atlantis, as well as various past abuses from authority.

posted August 29, 2014 05:56 PM            

While all are in regards to retaliation and retribution, for example, their purviews are different in scope.

posted August 29, 2014 06:23 PM            

Because "punishing" HADES himself seems really silly.

posted August 29, 2014 07:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
Desecration or disrespect for the dead? Perhaps for a near-murder, wherein the native "went" to Hades and came back?

Because "punishing" HADES himself seems really silly.

Perhaps punishment gone wrong/overboard, ending in self-termination. Or the punishment for unseen or buried/hidden transgressions.

---

The HADES principle is undeniable: disgust towards evil or sinister influences, and the awareness of the need for purification. Rather clearly, an 'eradication of evil' is not far off here, and might be seen as justified, or even unquestionable, given the presence of TISIPHONE.

The question has always been how that's defined. What then falls under the purview of 'punishable' or 'deserving' or so 'Hadesian' that it triggers the Tisiphonic response.

Interestingly, HADES is also being linked, in modern usage, to past lives -- though, that's quite new.

So, I don't see it as disrespect for the dead; HADES specifically has a (powerful) distaste for evil. The dead is rather an accepted part of the deal. Keeping in line with TISIPHONE being the Erinye responsible for punishing, tormenting, and otherwise retaliating against murderers (avenging victims of homicide), the HADES influence is interesting, being 'purification'. It's almost ... hand-in-glove. They go together exceedingly well, given their intrinsic natures.

The most common means of appeasing Tisiphone is a purification rite -- atonement. She demands a return to the natural order, and HADES recognises this need for 'purification'. This could be re-education, or other means of attaining retribution -- the intent is clearly there -- but Tisiphone is rather eye-for-an-eye. She wants vengeance, and HADES wants the destruction of evil, with a special focus upon purification.

... Yeah, okay. I get it now. I thought I did, but now I think it's very clear.

Now I have to understand how my CHIRON plays into this. That's still the unknown variable. Healing? Wounding? Both? Can't forget my own TISIPHONE pattern: conjunct LACHESIS, which is activated by his SUN.

Something of a loop, though not linked by (tropical) aspects. Linked through a Tropical-Draco configuration, however, which settles on his nSATURN square nSUN (heavy karmic debt).

posted August 29, 2014 07:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
Perhaps punishment gone wrong/overboard, ending in self-termination. Or the punishment for unseen or buried/hidden transgressions.

---

That has merit, too, though, especially given the way HADES operates, and the dual NODAL involvement.

posted August 30, 2014 01:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
Desecration or disrespect for the dead? Perhaps for a near-murder, wherein the native "went" to Hades and came back?

Because "punishing" HADES himself seems really silly.

Perhaps punishment gone wrong/overboard, ending in self-termination. Or the punishment for unseen or buried/hidden transgressions.

---

Overall a slight deviation from the thread but only a slight one, as noted to ID before, mine is the SN-Alekto conjunct Hades-Algol. This squares Tisiphone-Karma, so it ties in to the topic in any case.

It's possibly worthy of note that the Erinyes were servants of Hades and Persephone, too, punishing (torturing) criminals or wrong-doers.

posted August 30, 2014 06:17 AM            

I was just thinking of the intrinsic connexion of HADES, PERSEPHONE, and TISIPHONE today.

ALEKTO-SN definitely points to a karma involving retaliation; with ALGOL, potentially categorising the 'furious and implacable voice of the tormented woman'. Where is your MEDUSA (149) placed? Since ALGOL is involved, it seems to me that she'd fill in some necessary -- or at least useful -- detail.

Just as a theme in my synastry / karmic history is Lewis Carroll / Charles Dodgson -- especially his Alice / Wonderland / Looking Glass mythos and symbolism. So, MADHATTER, ALICE, and LEWISCARROLL are all prominently placed, and contribute greatly to my overall understanding.

After all, drMADHATTER is conjunct the nTISIPHONE-HADES. My nLEWISCARROLL is right on my DESTINN, and his is exactly on my SNODE with his nLACHESIS.

posted August 30, 2014 08:38 AM            

But you did make me dig out your synastry and look, because it wasn't making sense. I was interpreting as if his HADES was conj your TISIPHONE. Hah, oops. Gimme my coffee back.

HADES-TISIPHONE does have a "righteous killer" sense to it now, when viewed as a single point in a natal. Conjunct your PREY points to your theory as a victim being true. Conj your CHIRON could mean it was personal and left a huge wound in your soul that hasn't fully healed.

posted August 30, 2014 09:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
I was just thinking of the intrinsic connection of HADES, PERSEPHONE, and TISIPHONE today.

ALEKTO-SN definitely points to a karma involving retaliation; with ALGOL, potentially categorising the 'furious and implacable voice of the tormented woman'. Where is your MEDUSA (149) placed? Since ALGOL is involved, it seems to me that she'd fill in some necessary -- or at least useful -- detail.

Sometimes, knowing what can build the theme answers a lot of questions. Hopefully, MEDUSA will prove similarly helpful.

---

I seem to recall Medusa is at 23 Gemini. Draconic Medusa at 27 Libra if that, nChiron 27 Aries, Saturn 27 Cancer.

Either it's that or 22, don't think she was 24, but was from what I recall right at the end of the degree so when rounded up turning up with the 00'00" at the end instead of the 59'57" or whatever the individual numbers were. I think it was Actor-Achilles-Medusa for me since half joked about a career as a prosthetics actor somewhere down the line. I think it was Actor-Achilles-Tone on one degree and Medusa at the end of it or on the neighbouring one, I forget. Also Krok and Mauderli. Eleventh house, same as Alekto-Armandhammer-Katharina SN conjunct Champollion-Hades with Algol on the preceding degree.

Angel is conjunct Prey at 24 Sagittarius, so a reasonable opposition if you like. I also recall my father's NN being around 22-23 Gemini. My Quetzalcoatl-BML (the one given by Astrodienst) is at 22 Pisces square the Gemini stuff.

As noted elsewhere, I have Persephone on my IC. I don't know about tormented women otherwise, but a surefire way to ignite a blind-eyed wrathful Fury or Nemesis type with a castrating sickle at my end was talk of rape in war zones. Going bloody when mortal instead of an avenging goddess isn't helpful, so I prefer not to go into such emotional states really. If avoidable.

Tisiphone/Alekto midpoint is around 11 Cancer (12H) it seems, and my Megaira was around 9 Cancer. A bit wide, but would you consider it relevant?

posted August 30, 2014 03:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
ID - the problem is you trying to determine if he murdered or victimized you, via interpretation of HADES-TISIPHONE in synastry. I didn't see this particular aspect pointing to that, because it invokes TISIPHONE's rage energies on HADES. Or HADES ordering TISIPHONE around (yea, I don't see that either).

But you did make me dig out your synastry and look, because it wasn't making sense. I was interpreting as if his HADES was conj your TISIPHONE. Hah, oops. Gimme my coffee back.

HADES-TISIPHONE does have a "righteous killer" sense to it now, when viewed as a single point in a natal. Conjunct your PREY points to your theory as a victim being true. Conj your CHIRON could mean it was personal and left a huge wound in your soul that hasn't fully healed.

In present terms, you may be exasperated and frustrated at his rigid and fatalistic viewpoint about how justice should be meted out. Perhaps it strains or drains you, since you're putting inordinate amounts of yourself on the line to soften his views of "evil".

---

Theeeere we go. I was about to say, how had I not realised, in ... 16-ish years, -- that we have a totally different approach to conjunctions? Heh! Now it makes sense. Yes, his natal TISIPHONE-HADES. Honestly, I see TNP's / Uranians as being one down from planets. They tend to be seen as 'planetoids'. So asteroids are the 'flavour text' and texture. In that way, I see TISIPHONE as directing / redirecting / fusing with HADES' natural tendencies. Much like Fate's VENUS-EROS and MARS-PSYCHE may one day be part of the Twin Flame vibe thing -- given the way PSYCHE is influencing MARS, and EROS, VENUS.

posted October 12, 2014 06:28 PM            

I have:

Asia in Cancer at 14 19
Dejanira in cancer at 13 47
8th Cusp at 13 32
Sirius is at 13.5 degrees Cancer
China conjuncts my Sun-Moon midpoint

My Ex:
China in cancer at 13 24
Tisiphone in cancer at 12 00
Asia in virgo at 16 11 opposing Moon in pisces at 16 02.

Composite Tisiphone conjuncts almost exact my sun and opposes composite Prey exact!

I have always felt a bit intimidated by Asian culture;I like them but I find them a bit scary although not now in my 30s anymore but I felt like this for a long time since I was little kid; I have always felt that I dont want to ever move there.

"According to tradition, Sirius will give a famous death with honors beyond the grave, if positioned in the 8th house" BUT dejanira the victim asteroid conjuncts Asia and my 8th cusp.

I think my ex avenged for my death.

My ex also has Africa conjunct chiron in the 8th; I have always wondered what his chiron in the 8th means for him personally:

Africa in Taurus 15 17
Chiron in Taurus 15 22