posted August 24, 2015 11:48 PM            

I am starting to feel that a lot of Dejanira and Nessus past life karma specially if Tisiphone and or Hylonome is in the mix has to do with wars and battles. I am starting to understand nessus and dejanira better and better, specially nessus which I feel can manifest in a myriad of ways...

"Nessus is an indicator of Bad Blood, there was certainly bad blood between Boudicca and the Romans. With his dying breath Nessus plots Hercule’s death, this is the stuff of vendettas. This Bad Blood comes straight from the heart and is capable of poisoning us, Nessus is our urge for revenge, our inability to let go of the past and move on. Nessus in the natal chart shows where issues of Bad Blood have affected us family vendettas, inability to move on and forgive ourselves as well as others is shown by Nessus.

Dejanira, shows where we have been wounded by the slings and arrows of misfortune, this asteroid shows abuse of power in all its forms whether that is Boudicca witnessing the rape of her daughters or the daughters witnessing the physical abuse of their mother Dejanira is no pushover she is a warrior that fights back refusing to passively let the slings and arrows wound without a counter attack."

Nessus wants revenge or to punish instead of forgive at whatever cost even if it costs his own happiness I feel and so an innocent person gets hurt in the process.

Nessus also kidnaps or rapes Dejanira so Nessus likes to just take what he wants and uses force to get it. He also has not problem lying and conning to get his way and manipulate so that is another way it can manifest.

posted August 25, 2015 02:26 AM            

It took me awhile to finally understand the 0º conjunction of my boyfriend's DEJANIRA with my NESSUS. But this just goes to show how these more complex asteroids, when in powerful aspect, do more to convey concept than any straightforward delineation.

Our DEJA/NESSUS conjunction falls right along my sidereal NODES -- conjunct the NNODE, actually. This is a crucial element of karma that is directly impacting my present lifeline -- and it is. Both of us. Deeply.

Suffice it to say, we both made tremendous mistakes and hurt each other terribly. But that particular conjunction of ours can be read:

'I can't let go of the past in which you abused your power and destroyed us both. I can't forgive you until vengeance is done and justice served.'

And, yes, you read that correctly: it's my NESSUS, even as I was, technically, the victim. The greater truth is that we were both victimised; in destroying me he destroyed himself just the same. But I couldn't allow him even that twisted dignity. No, if I was going down, I was taking him with me. Even if he couldn't live with himself, I was going to see to it that his life was no longer in his own hands; from that day onward, his own life would be good as over.

Ahhhhh. There's ol' NESSUS. As they say, H, hell hath no fury. And, in this case, you're dealing with just that: furies. Those who will seek justice at any cost -- even if the greatest is to themselves, and they are destroyed in the process. This is why furies should never fall in love or discover loyalties outside of their purpose. And, in the case of a human being, with frailties and all, there's always that tiny sliver of a chance that something can become not just a SNAFU, but totally FUBAR. And the one who was by your side, is now at the barrel of your gun.

Funny, how we both wrote that story -- literally -- in our own way, with the prevailing theme remaining. The tragedy of having to murder the love of your life so as to remain aligned with your principles. Yet, in both, he's the one pulling the trigger -- metaphorically. I suspect it was more humane than that -- especially per his own 'retelling' featuring the element of it being a 'mercy kill'. He didn't even realise the truly disturbing nature of it until I challenged his perspective. Over the past five years, we've done a 180º in this regard -- namely him. Coming to the realisation of just what his unusual personality has allowed to lie dormant in his psyche. Something he's wrestling with now, even as the circumstances (thankfully!) do not permit that kind of encore performance. Thank God for fiction, though; just in case the fates are still somewhat thirsting for our blood.

The NESSUS connexion only came to me when I was ready to accept the depth of my own darkness, and to what I, too, had been driven. Something integrated within me that day (late July), and I was able to slowly begin to accept the harder truth: how I, too, had become a killer, avenging the cold-blooded murders of innocents with whom I'd never even become acquainted. The mere fact that they took a life was enough for me.

Why? Because it had been enough for him.

You can see where this is going. Call it hubris or hope, but love was not stronger than his principles. And so, by following his complicated example, finding within it an identity that helped me deal with the pain of his rejection (due to his principles, again), I became the most faithful protege he could've imagined. I'm sure he saw the irony, as well as the hypocrisy. Ohhh, I certainly can. But it didn't save me. It's taken me a VERY long time to both realise -- and admit -- that.

And so, I was determined to see that his life was completely ruined. After all, if, by some terrible accident of fate he took my life, I was going to ensure that he was exposed -- and destroyed. Took me awhile to figure out exactly how I'd set that up, but I believe the details were such that he was first betrayed by those very few he actually trusted, and then wouldn't again see the light of day until his death, whenever that came.

That's NESSUS. Ultimate revenge, and from beyond the grave. Unfortunately, it creates a cycle of violence which may only be broken by unconditional love and forgiveness.

Fortunately, we've been slowly proving that to each other for the past five years, too. If love is the way out, then, Thank God, we've got that. The real stuff, too. Because we certainly do need it!

As for his DEJANIRA, not only was he clearly victimised as a result of this, but his concept of victimhood ignites my NESSUS -- my concept of revenge and an inability to forgive and forget the past. Yet, of course, it's through his own victimisation in this lifeline that I've been able to use the most positive healing gifts of my NESSUS to heal these awful, gaping wounds, extending as far back as his childhood. And, perhaps, beyond.

He's been striving to help me to heal my wounds as well. (Remember, I have a deep sexual wound that stems from vaginismus; the fact that I feel incapable and somewhat broken.) He has his own deep sexual wounds as well; and it's no wonder. My NESSUS is conjunct NYMPHE; his DEJA is square his NYMPHE conjunct his MOON.

Ultimately, a cycle of violence can be broken and healed with the incredible power of unconditional love. I know, I know -- it sounds so cloying. But it really has proved true in my experience.

posted August 26, 2015 12:52 AM            

As you already know my SR NESSUS conjuncts my Tropic Dejanira on Sirius. In addition my husband has Nessus square Dejanira on his chart. His nessus trines my Psyche and his Dejanira-VERTEX sextiles my Venus-karma-mars, we also have karma-eros conjunct saturn and our karma stems from a Japanese past life, I think he avenged my death maybe. That past life would explain his very pronounced fear of death and of me dying, well to be fair his dad dying at a young age as well but I feel this fear goes deeper than this life, he knows too much about ways to die etc..There has been a very significant decrease in his frequency of shivering when the topic of death arises so there has been significant improvement with that, some healing must have taking place with my help.

Here it goes:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:

Funny my cancer Nessus sits on my asteroid Church and my Mars. My Dejanira sits on Asteroid Christian and my 12th house unaspected Moon.

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You must be in SOME ways similar to my partner in your dislike for religion. Him and I feel very similar but his dislike goes deeper; he really feels religion is a form of abuse and as you can see I get that but with him is more personal and it turns into hate. He has "bad blood" with religion and a lot of resentment for religion and his family. He still has not forgiven the church or his family for FORCING him to go through with CONFIRMATION even though he did not want to and considered it abusive. His uncle was the most religious out of the whole family and he holds the most resentment towards him and his mother as well for a number of reasons.

His Nessus trines exact Church and he has nessus square dejanira by 2 deg. He has a very deep dislike and hate for religion more so than me, I am more accepting and chill about it even though I disagree with it. He doesn't even like to use the word "spirituality." He believes in the "no self doctrine" though and he believes that "existence springs from the void of nothingness and that life is the universe looking in on itself." He can get very deep but he calls it metaphysics, don't you dare call it spirituality. I feel you and I are more similar though, like with him at some point we kind of go into different directions bc he rejects not just religion but also spirituality which is sad for him. However, Uranus is transiting through his 12th and will be there forever as his 12th is pretty big so maybe there will be a shift at some point.

We would have pretty bad fights but once he cut ties with his mother things started to improve. She would pop up and it would invoke such strong emotions in him and "bad blood" that it will flow over to me and I ended up paying for his negative feelings and resentment for his mother and not wanting to ever forgive her.

It makes sense, he has nessus in CANCER square Dejanira in LIBRA so his nessus in cancer trine church issues would spill over to his committed relationships/marriage bc the square makes it hard for him to know how to handle that nessus energy. As soon as he completely cut ties with his mother and his family our relationship changed drastically for the better. He feels like the victim of his mother, family and religion and nessus won't allow him to forgive and forget and been around those things exacerbates his nessus and agitates him leading to destruction which usually meant screaming and destroying expensive stuff around the house and leaving wholes in the wall. He has to forgive to resolve that karma but he doesn't want to so the next best thing is cutting off his family and religion bc it poisons him and then I become the receiver of that poison. I can't persuade him to forgive with spirituality bc he doesn't like the word or the concept; he associates it too much with religion to get him to separate the two in his mind.

Anyways you don't realize it but you just helped me understand his nessus-dejanira aspect and how it manifests in his chart, like I knew all the issues he has but I hadn't understood it in the context of nessus and dejanira and how it feels for him and how that in turn leads to poor coping skills as nessus can be hard to control. Even though in my mind I would have preferred for him to forgive his family and accept certain things and let go I have to say that he is able to keep his nessus in check well since he cut them all off and is no longer spilling over to me so I guess that is how he has coped with that nessus SQUARE to Dejanira and learn to live with it in a way that is not destructive.

posted August 26, 2015 03:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Thanks for sharing Auby your story. I am adding this interaction with Gabby from another thread because it fits this topic very well and I think you would enjoy reading my nessus-dejanira story with my partner.

As you already know my SR NESSUS conjuncts my Tropic Dejanira on Sirius. In addition my husband has Nessus square Dejanira on his chart. His nessus trines my Psyche and his Dejanira-VERTEX sextiles my Venus-karma-mars, we also have karma-eros conjunct saturn and our karma stems from a Japanese past life, I think he avenged my death maybe. That past life would explain his very pronounced fear of death and of me dying, well to be fair his dad dying at a young age as well but I feel this fear goes deeper than this life, he knows too much about ways to die etc..There has been a very significant decrease in his frequency of shivering when the topic of death arises so there has been significant improvement with that, some healing must have taking place with my help.

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Exactly. Much as my boyfriend's inexplicable, yet oddly powerful 'guilt' over possessing all of the traits of 'a perfect killer'. There's undeniable truth to that, but beyond a sort of odd 'quirk', it really, really affects him sometimes -- to the point of rage and deep sadness.

posted August 26, 2015 11:36 AM            

At one point I was full of rage n anger. I hated my mom for forcing that religion on me, I hated my dad for leaving me with my crazy mom, I hated god for allowing it to happen. In reality I only hated myself because I was afraid of who I was....

I know what I had to do to stop hating religion, god, spirituality and anything that felt like it was trying to manipulate me by tugging at my heart. He's not afraid of religion, he doesn't hate religion, spirituality or his mom...he hates that his emotions were used to destroy him, he fears opening up again. He fears at his deepest maybe he's a bad person deep down because he's rejected god. His hardness is fear, fear of opening up to be manipulated again and not knowing who he is deep down because the path he naturally would have taken to find himself was manipulated and he didn't find himself instead he found he hates the religion that was forced on him. So now he's dealing with 2 fears, fear of being manipulated through his emotions and fear from not knowing who he is except someone who hates the one thing society says has/is light, good, spirituality, god...he hates religion! So does that mean he's bad? He's the devil? He doesn't know and he's scared to find out, so he's stuck in fear of all of this!! I've been him! I've always had dreams of my death in past lives, being burned to death in a sacrifice...then iQ told me my name analysis shows I was sacrificed to Baal...the god of false religion. In many cultures Baal was same as the devil!
Evidently this has been a theme of many lives of mine if not all since I started my fight against this energy. This energy follows me trying to destroy my spirit/my spirituality before I have the chance to learn about it. We are strong fighters against this negative destructive energy that's why this energy hates us and wants to keep us afraid, and broken, so we don't have the emotional strength to fight and expose them. Best to get us to question ourselves, doubt our strength, worth and abilities so we self sabotage....it makes their job easier, they set it up so that we keep ourselves down.
I think those of us with strong souls, fighter souls get particularly incensed when someone comes along and tries to manipulate us out of our power and does it to us as children when we are still so vulnerable. What a weak pathetic energy to stoop so low and try to destroy us as children!
I hope all this makes sense...I'm on my phone again so I can't see it all to reread and edit, sorry for typos!

So, how did I get past this??
This is not easy and very personal journey!
What I did is finally got so low and felt so hated by god that I gave up and said, hey I'm already the worst person on earth, god hates me, my family won't speak to me, gods going to kill me.....so who cares what do I have to lose. I'm just going explore my darkness and enjoy it!
So I went though a few years of trying to see how bad I really was....I tried to be the most sinful horrible person I could. What did I find out? I found out I'm like a light wherever I go bringing love and kindness to even the darkest places. I find that those dark places are not bad they are just full of hurt ppl I helped change son of their lives by joining them and then inspiring them. I found that at my core I can't do bad...it doesn't feel natural to me. I tried to be the dark person I feared I was and I found out I wasn't a dark person at all. I was a spirit of light and I started to find my truest self. I found the self I'd lost because I was trying to be their version of light, which is a fake light.
Jesus could go I to the darkest places and he have them light...I found that I did the same. That made me so proud of myself and able to forgive religion because I realized they are not bad they are just lost. They are actually just as dark as the darkest places because they are so lost, but they put on that fake light and try to force everyone to believe it's real. This makes them even more lost, they refuse help and they lie and manipulate to be able to stay lost...it's so sad they feed their own sickness and don't even realize what they at doing, the they make others sick to.
God loves the ppl of religion just like he loves us...he see they are sick and his heart goes out to them. Mine does to, that's why I'm not angry anymore.

I'm not sure how that will help you with your guy? Maybe you see a crossover?
All I can say is when he goes to dark places and wants to explore get excited about it and go with him. Help him see he's a being of light no matter where he's at. Let him hit his rick bottom(or what he thinks is his rock bottom) of anger and darkness.
I said the craziest stuff, cold dark anger I let loose and felt...but once I did that without holding back anything(took almost a year of feeling like I was pure evil) it all got better. We fear this is our true self, we know it's there, we sense it but can't totally see where it comes from it's hiding our true self from us...it's very confusing and disheartening to us, so we feel like we are bad ppl and fear letting it surface. But letting it surface is the only way to get it out of us.
I had so much hate and rage inside me for what they had done to me. My ex husbands Mars sits exact on my Nessus, and he was manipulative and abusive in the same ways religion had been to me, but he was much more overt and focused...he made it obvious he was messing with my mind.
When a part of me started falling for it another part of me went black and ready to kill!! Lol
I remember sitting in the chair by our bed watching him sleep and thinking I could kill him right now. Then another part of me the stronger part, my true person wouldn't let it happen ever!
Sends shivers through me thinking about that now. I can't feel the rage I felt then, now....it's all gone. But Ido remember feeling it! But when you've had your soul stripped from you through manipulation it's the worst kind of violation. You lose who you are to an extent, it's overwritten by the rage...but you can erase to rage and find your still there underneath.

posted August 26, 2015 10:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Hyp...his story sounds so much like mine! My mother forced the religion on me but I bought it, totally bought it. I wanted to be the perfect little christian, after some point there was no forcing me I forced myself. So I don't blame my mom, to me she's just as much as victim as me but she's still stuck! Breaks my heart, she's still brainwashed and I cannot have the mom I deserve because she's not strong enough to see it.

---

My mom is way more religious than his mom by far. This description you give is exactly me, we have the same wound in respect to feeling like we lost our mom to religion and been deprived of a truly gratifying mother and daughter relationship. Even though my mom loves me is clear she loves religion more and would pick it over me, her life revolves around it so much, she is so dependent on it and like you explain so well completely oblivious to her sickness thinking instead that others who "rebel" are the "sick" ones.

Your story and how it has evolved is more similar to my story but the depth of the wound you experienced from feeling abused by religion is more similar to my husband's in regards to that aspect of the story.

Its crazy though I feel the three of us must come from the same soul family; we all three have mother and religion karma. I think my husband and I clicked quickly in part bc this, we felt like kindred spirits in this crazy "zombie" world who could see eye to eye and talk frankly about anything no matter how controversial without a problem.

posted August 26, 2015 10:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:

At one point I was full of rage n anger. I hated my mom for forcing that religion on me, I hated my dad for leaving me with my crazy mom, I hated god for allowing it to happen. In reality I only hated myself because I was afraid of who I was....

---

I have always secretly felt that my dad should have not married my mom, I wished he would have married someone else tbh, I don't wish her ill and I don't like seeing her hurt and simultaneously do want them to stay together but part of me truly feels they shouldn't have met. I adore him but she forced him into her religious obsession and now he is part of it too after he resisted for a while but once I left it someone had to join her in her craziness for the dysfunctional system of our family to continue working which keeps her delusions alive and when he "GAVE IN" I lost him too in a way.

I know I would have not been born but the way I see it I would have been born still just perhaps a slight different version of me, after all I look like my dad pretty much and his side of the family.

I dont hate my parents or siblings who are actually my half brother and half sister but I feel like an alien among them except for my dad but he is in their world now so there is some of that inevitably with him too but to be accurate I will always have a bond with him I feel. I just have gotten to the point that I do not want to hang out with them and do the holiday or birthday thing with them like I use to, it feels forced and unnatural. I feel we are not related anymore, like we are strangers been forced to interact with each other in a way.

posted August 26, 2015 11:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:

I remember sitting in the chair by our bed watching him sleep and thinking I could kill him right now. Then another part of me the stronger part, my true person wouldn't let it happen ever!

---

Like you though I don't have it in me at all to go through with it, I know I can't take something like that back ever and don't want to carry that around.

posted August 27, 2015 12:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:

I know what I had to do to stop hating religion, god, spirituality and anything that felt like it was trying to manipulate me by tugging at my heart. He's not afraid of religion, he doesn't hate religion, spirituality or his mom...he hates that his emotions were used to destroy him, he fears opening up again. He fears at his deepest maybe he's a bad person deep down because he's rejected god. His hardness is fear, fear of opening up to be manipulated again and not knowing who he is deep down because the path he naturally would have taken to find himself was manipulated and he didn't find himself instead he found he hates the religion that was forced on him. So now he's dealing with 2 fears, fear of being manipulated through his emotions and fear from not knowing who he is except someone who hates the one thing society says has/is light, good, spirituality, god...he hates religion! So does that mean he's bad? He's the devil? He doesn't know and he's scared to find out, so he's stuck in fear of all of this!! I've been him! I've always had dreams of my death in past lives, being burned to death in a sacrifice...then iQ told me my name analysis shows I was sacrificed to Baal...the god of false religion. In many cultures Baal was same as the devil!
Evidently this has been a theme of many lives of mine if not all since I started my fight against this energy. This energy follows me trying to destroy my spirit/my spirituality before I have the chance to learn about it. We are strong fighters against this negative destructive energy that's why this energy hates us and wants to keep us afraid, and broken, so we don't have the emotional strength to fight and expose them. Best to get us to question ourselves, doubt our strength, worth and abilities so we self sabotage....it makes their job easier, they set it up so that we keep ourselves down.
I think those of us with strong souls, fighter souls get particularly incensed when someone comes along and tries to manipulate us out of our power and does it to us as children when we are still so vulnerable. What a weak pathetic energy to stoop so low and try to destroy us as children!
I hope all this makes sense...I'm on my phone again so I can't see it all to reread and edit, sorry for typos!

So, how did I get past this??
This is not easy and very personal journey!
What I did is finally got so low and felt so hated by god that I gave up and said, hey I'm already the worst person on earth, god hates me, my family won't speak to me, gods going to kill me.....so who cares what do I have to lose. I'm just going explore my darkness and enjoy it!
So I went though a few years of trying to see how bad I really was....I tried to be the most sinful horrible person I could. What did I find out? I found out I'm like a light wherever I go bringing love and kindness to even the darkest places. I find that those dark places are not bad they are just full of hurt ppl I helped change son of their lives by joining them and then inspiring them. I found that at my core I can't do bad...it doesn't feel natural to me. I tried to be the dark person I feared I was and I found out I wasn't a dark person at all. I was a spirit of light and I started to find my truest self. I found the self I'd lost because I was trying to be their version of light, which is a fake light.
Jesus could go I to the darkest places and he have them light...I found that I did the same. That made me so proud of myself and able to forgive religion because I realized they are not bad they are just lost. They are actually just as dark as the darkest places because they are so lost, but they put on that fake light and try to force everyone to believe it's real. This makes them even more lost, they refuse help and they lie and manipulate to be able to stay lost...it's so sad they feed their own sickness and don't even realize what they at doing, the they make others sick to.
God loves the ppl of religion just like he loves us...he see they are sick and his heart goes out to them. Mine does to, that's why I'm not angry anymore.

I'm not sure how that will help you with your guy? Maybe you see a crossover?
All I can say is when he goes to dark places and wants to explore get excited about it and go with him. Help him see he's a being of light no matter where he's at. Let him hit his rick bottom(or what he thinks is his rock bottom) of anger and darkness.
I said the craziest stuff, cold dark anger I let loose and felt...but once I did that without holding back anything(took almost a year of feeling like I was pure evil) it all got better. We fear this is our true self, we know it's there, we sense it but can't totally see where it comes from it's hiding our true self from us...it's very confusing and disheartening to us, so we feel like we are bad ppl and fear letting it surface. But letting it surface is the only way to get it out of us.
I had so much hate and rage inside me for what they had done to me. My ex husbands Mars sits exact on my Nessus, and he was manipulative and abusive in the same ways religion had been to me, but he was much more overt and focused...he made it obvious he was messing with my mind.
When a part of me started falling for it another part of me went black and ready to kill!! Lol
I remember sitting in the chair by our bed watching him sleep and thinking I could kill him right now. Then another part of me the stronger part, my true person wouldn't let it happen ever!
Sends shivers through me thinking about that now. I can't feel the rage I felt then, now....it's all gone. But Ido remember feeling it! But when you've had your soul stripped from you through manipulation it's the worst kind of violation. You lose who you are to an extent, it's overwritten by the rage...but you can erase to rage and find your still there underneath.

BUT....the good news is I found that anger eventually disappeared if I allowed myself to feel it. Because id opened the door that i had it locked behind....I'd released it!!
Yes it was free then to potentially envelope me, hurt me, destroy me....but it didn't do that!
It was a part of me that just wanted to be felt again, to be acknowledged, it just wanted to be free! I looked at, validated it, supported it, let it breathe again and just as I'd promised when I locked it away...I returned and dealt with it! That's all i needed to release my fear regarding it's presence inside me, but now I've gotten into a different asteroid, Sado.
Anyway in the end I found eventually it worked it's way out because it wasn't actually mine to keep. It was put there by someone else and didn't belong inside me! I'd always been terrified it was truly me but once I explored it I found out it wasn't. Then I was free of it!

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I love your story Gabby, I truly love it. Its very beautiful to me and reaches my core. I thank you again for sharing it in such details. I love your advice and reading about how you dealt with all this and overcome it. I will definitely keep it in mind and I have done some of what you have suggested already with him but love the insight I have gotten from you telling me about why you dealt with it the way you did and why it helped you and how you think he is feeling and why. I feel like I want to read this several times bc there is so much wisdom in it.

posted August 27, 2015 12:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Exactly. Much as my boyfriend's inexplicable, yet oddly powerful 'guilt' over possessing all of the traits of 'a perfect killer'. There's undeniable truth to that, but beyond a sort of odd 'quirk', it really, really affects him sometimes -- to the point of rage and deep sadness.

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posted August 29, 2015 05:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Hyp, it's such a great feeling to feel understood and thank you for saying it's normal to feel what I felt regarding my ex...sometimes I wonder how thoughts like that could ever go through me. Thank you!

I will write more later...I'm running around this morning crazy, so can't write to much right now!

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