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Author Topic:   How do asteroids work?
Ceridwen
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posted January 06, 2017 09:05 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In another thread the question was raised, how do asteroids really "work" in astrology?
I mean, how do we derive their meaning.

In the case of the un-mythological asteroids I see currently two approaches being practised:


1. Deriving the meaning from what we associate with the word or even pronounciation (Destinn as signifying Destiny), no matter what the asteroid was being named for (Destinn was an opera singer really).


2. a - more rare- approach would be checking the discovery chart to understand the meaning of an asteroid.

I am opening this up for discussion. How and why do you think asteroids work? Or do they just "work" because we perceive, what we expect to see?

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Enneline
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posted January 06, 2017 09:36 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
... I see currently two approaches being practised:


1. Deriving the meaning from what we associate with the word or even pronounciation (Destinn as signifying Destiny), [b]no matter what the asteroid was being named for
(Destinn was an opera singer really).


2. a - more rare- approach would be checking the discovery chart to understand the meaning of an asteroid.

...
[/B]


yeah, that would be a good approach!!!
Esp Point 2 is a new approach i never thought of


i would add:

1. Say on what your posts - esp if you are a professional astrologer - are based: intuition, name or origin.
For example: asteroid kaali (4227). Some say it has some kundalini energy...ähm, okay but if you think that, please say what your reference is: intuition, research or whatever.
Actually the asteroid kaali (4227) was named after a place on an island... http://www.minorplanetcenter.net/db_search/show_object?utf8=%E2%9C%93&object_id=4227

Also, the Indish godess Kali is the godess of death, etc.- nothing to do with Kundalini.

first, any other approach could not only lead to ridiculousness and absurdity of astrology, but also to abuse: For example: nessus on a prominent place makes one an abuser- you might say it if it's based on intuition or your own research but it's dangerous to set up that as a general rule- esp. facing the fact that notorious serial killers don't have prominent Nessus in their charts...also, it's abuse to the clients or beginners who trust you. If you say it's just intuition or little research, the beginner or client can take a look on his own since we are all at least responsible of ourselves.

Second: you "steal" other point of views.
Let's take lilith that was named after Lili Boulanger.
one has faith in professional astrologers or hobby-astrologers on LL: she would think that Lilith was named after Lilith- and see the depending pattern in her chart- but what if she knows that Lilith was named after Lili Boulanger? You would "have stolen" the opportunity to see a possible pattern of a fragile artist in her chart- and her research might lead to the result that she has both Lilith and Lili Boulanger vibes in her chart....or only Lilith or only Lili Boulanger.
Do you get what i mean?

We all are here to learn and to exchange our experiences and no one is perfect and makes mistakes and we all are responsible for ourselves- but some basic facts should be mentioned in threads, especially published by so-called professional astrologers

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Faith
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posted January 06, 2017 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Because I do not base life-changing decisions on asteroids, such as who to trust and not trust, it doesn't matter too much to me personally, when I am just working with charts in my usual way. The asteroids "work" for my simple amusement and fascination.

But I would hope that anyone claiming to be a professional asteroid astrologer would do research and exhibit discernment and spiritual maturity.

I see astrology as a kind of sacred science; it's a privilege to be given this view into life. Astrology developed with careful skywatching, exact measurements and very keen observations all along. I don't like to see these waters muddied.

Professionally, one hopes for higher standards.

And my belief is that it's ethically wrong to use astrology, especially asteroids, to incriminate, dehumanize, or introduce fear between people.

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 06, 2017 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It makes it that much more challenging to practice astrology when your colleagues are giving astrology a certain reputation... so much of it then involves patiently addressing misunderstandings about specific aspects of astrology, and impressions of the relevance and usefulness of the art itself... just yesterday I was fielding questions from a well known community member in my home town who has had professional readings with another local astrologer and confessed to coming out saying "what did I just hear?" That astrologer might be totally credible and diligently practicing the art, but because of the rapid fire delivery and overall nature of her approach, there wasn't room for the unfolding of insight -on the client's part- which is what can make astrology especially useful, clarifying, constructive and healing. So my friend who had had the readings has a less than positive view of astrology overall which is a shame. It could be a much more useful and prolific modality for healing and counseling if there were more quality control in terms of who can practice professionally... this is a conversation held regularly among professional astrologers. It's really hard to work at something for years and years and then have your whole profession looked down on because of another person who makes it look like charlatanism (isthat a word? )... anyway

obviously that story i related is a minor problem and not an ethical dilemma like the one you are describing. Or maybe it is; it's kinda like medical doctors who actually kill people or who really don't care about their patient's well being.. all too common. .. but it's part of the fabric of the universe that they do so, as sad and messed up as it is. It IS this way. There's a good Rumi poem which makes reference to a doctor who kills... sorry I can't pull it up right now or if I'm totally digressing. ..

i agree that a dilemma certainly exists. My approach right now as you will have seen is to encourage the humility which is necessary for all of us (in a loving way) because all of the logical arguments are simply not getting through... I know that's frustrating because they're very well put, but people go on the evidence of their supporters too and well .. they exist! Some people like this style; they like looking at themselves and others in this light. This tearing one another down for sport is a pretty rampant thing in our world, and you'll find it in many fields. Enjoying witnessing other people's pain and suffering is one of those traits which we need to be very careful of... not going to be solved in a day I'm afraid.

As for straight up incorrect and damaging things being said in astrological contexts

This is something a lot of people are all too familiar with but unfortunately you can't quite get away from it... even the most well respected astrologers I know are liable to say things that I disagree with and find potentially damaging and compromising for people psychologically.

This is because astrology is a really... well... intimate thing... it gets all up in various aspects of our lives and claims to know what they're about. That is not light stuff! Yet obviously some astrologers are way more regularly accurate and careful enough in their wording and approach that if they share something it can be used constructively

I agree with so many of your posts on this subject, Faith--you know what you're talking about and it's evident that you've got it going on in terms of the necessity for credibility and care and tact and all the rest of it. I'm soothed by reading it, I think it's very important to keep making these points so that we can all reflect on how better to manage ourselves, our credibility and accountability...

A tentative curious approach is always better; even with the most diligent research, we could still be dead wrong and cause pain for somebody unwittingly... so

Then again as I've said before, as astrologers we are not actually outside the workings of fate and karma... so people sometimes attract and take in 'bad advice' ; when, by the mysterious workings of the universe which are far, far beyond me, they need to do so and work through things at that level.

I know my perspective sounds pretty soft and permissive and I do appreciate your fire. I just look at situations and try to see what I can actually do to change them... sometimes there isn't much so I need to take it from a broader angle... but i really see the benefit too in calling things out, etc.

So in conclusion, pigglewiggle

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 06, 2017 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now I'm curious about Destinn's discovery chart.

I find discovery charts endlessly fascinating. I love seeing what amounts to a birth chart for Juno, for instance! I should copy my read of it here.m. it's so fun. She has Venus in Leo, of course

I think like so many things in this strange strange world, asteroids can shift and change their meaning and application as the situation deems necessary. Obviously their configuration in a given chart well have very particular implications and a creative; flexible, fluid analysis of their interpenetrations and subtle specific funny meanings is usually more revelatory and useful ultimately than a rigid approach.

Astrology is an art... it really is... it isn't purely scientific, although it obeys certain rules, decidedly it does. But the importance of fluidity in our interpretations is huge because the symbols and bodies themselves are indeed changing their meaning and action as our consciousness changes. i mean the art of astrology has changed so much in the last 100 years and it will continue to evolve as we do.

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Faith
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posted January 06, 2017 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So many great points, yun...

quote:
even the most well respected astrologers I know are liable to say things that I disagree with and find potentially damaging and compromising for people psychologically.

Yes. Nothing's perfect and even synastry can bring a "relationship" between client and astrologer down, just like with any therapist.

I picked up a book by Stephen Arroyo at the bookstore once, flipped through, landed on something "bad energy" and put it back, wondering about all the people who gravitate to this same stuff that puts me off so badly. Well he's heavy Scorpio, with his Scorpio Mars squaring my Mercury, plus his sun is conjunct my Pluto. I guess since it's my Pluto there was an immediate feeling of "Have you considered transformation, by the way? Might do you some good?"

^^ No offense to him as a person, I barely know this astrologer...just as an example. Synastry will always play into the quality of an astrologer's relationships with the people they advise or explore charts with.

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Elysia
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posted January 06, 2017 01:07 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Because I do not base life-changing decisions on asteroids, such as who to trust and not trust, it doesn't matter too much to me personally, when I am just working with charts in my usual way. The asteroids "work" for my simple amusement and fascination.

But I would hope that anyone claiming to be a professional asteroid astrologer would do research and exhibit discernment and spiritual maturity.

I see astrology as a kind of sacred science; it's a privilege to be given this view into life. Astrology developed with careful skywatching, exact measurements and very keen observations all along. I don't like to see these waters muddied.

Professionally, one hopes for higher standards.

And my belief is that it's ethically wrong to use astrology, especially asteroids, to incriminate, dehumanize, or introduce fear between people.


Yeah...

Btw, that's interesting about your mercury. It never occurred to me, but my mars might be squaring it too!

:edit: I just realized I could look that up. Yep. My Merc-Mars on your Uranus, squaring your Mercury. Yayy.

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Elysia
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posted January 06, 2017 01:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
... this is a conversation held regularly among professional astrologers. It's really hard to work at something for years and years and then have your whole profession looked down on because of another person who makes it look like charlatanism (isthat a word? )...

Yep, that's true.
I wonder, sometimes, if - instead of Linda Goodman, I'd read something like this (you-know-what) first! Can you imagine.. It would've left such a bad taste in my mouth. Until such a time as I personally went ahead and studied it, from different people, different sources. Real-life observations.
It takes years and years to build a reputation, and just a second to destroy it.

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Delilah423
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posted January 06, 2017 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delilah423     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From a purely logical standpoint, it would seem to me it's not a black/white situation (one method OR the other). It's a combination, and needs to be backed up with data for how it functions in real charts.

Basing a meaning on how the word sounds in English (the 3rd most common first language in the world) should be the last consideration IMO, especially when the sound/spelling is not exact. Destinn for Destiny probably is not the same as Wisdom for Wisdom, for example.

I would think one would need to look at not only the discovery chart for the asteroid, but the reason behind the name, e.g. the life of the person the asteroid was named for, not just how it sounds.

This makes it more complex of course, but since when has astrology been simple?

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Delilah423
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posted January 06, 2017 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delilah423     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Because I do not base life-changing decisions on asteroids, such as who to trust and not trust, it doesn't matter too much to me personally, when I am just working with charts in my usual way. The asteroids "work" for my simple amusement and fascination.

But I would hope that anyone claiming to be a professional asteroid astrologer would do research and exhibit discernment and spiritual maturity.

I see astrology as a kind of sacred science; it's a privilege to be given this view into life. Astrology developed with careful skywatching, exact measurements and very keen observations all along. I don't like to see these waters muddied.

Professionally, one hopes for higher standards.

And my belief is that it's ethically wrong to use astrology, especially asteroids, to incriminate, dehumanize, or introduce fear between people.


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Faith
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posted January 06, 2017 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Love this conversation!

Sorry to veer off topic for a second.

*whispering off to the side*

(@Elysia - I think our Mercury synastry is great! I don't know Arroyo, but his Mars is conjunct Jupiter and maybe that just gave an amplified Scorpio Mars jolt to me which, in person, might translate to a crush for all I know (he was pretty cute in younger days, I see. ) I only meant to say, synastry matters.)

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Ceridwen
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posted January 06, 2017 04:13 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I actually like(d) Arroyo. Read a few books by him, and there is a lot of good stuff in there. The "bad energy" thing surprises me to be honest, I have always gotten the impression from his books that he has a pretty "non-fatalistic" approach. Hmm.

and I like the discussion as well, even though I am mostly reading.

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 06, 2017 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Arroyo rubbed me the wrong way when I first started reading his stuff, but I think I was mostly taking issue with his writing style being OVERLY engaging and almost gimmicky...

heh... I'm an a$$ sometimes. I think really I was projecting... that's almost always what I decide when I react in a strongly negative way though!

And like... he is sorta too cute sometimes :P

But I have come to love his stuff... he's got an incredible way with words and has opened up new vistas for me in terms of understanding the signs... and synastry... and composite charts too, actually.

I agree Ceridwen that he is refreshingly non-fatalistic especially in Sky mates 2 in regards to composites, as compared with Rob Hand who is often a little too fatalistic and doom-saying over single aspects...

that's not to say that he isn't right about a lot of it...

I prefer a more action oriented, spacious approach and Arroyo definitely gives you some options for how to work with the energy of a given sign, aspect, position... etc.

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 06, 2017 05:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But the point you're making I think, Faith, is that no matter how laudable and excellent an astrologer may be,our personal reception of their ideas and the way they put them forward is going to be influenced by our Ssynastry with them. Absolutely true. Also of course, their natal chart alone will dictate how and why they are read and received and by whom, and how...

I have a pretty lovely synastry with Dane Rudhyar, and I look at his books with like... oh, such love, they are like things that live in my home and bring me solace and comfort and excitement and joy... what a brilliant mind.

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 06, 2017 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also ♡♡♡ Dana Gerhardt, not looked up our synastry. Just thought I'd mention .

To each their own, ya know? We resonate with those we resonate with, and that is awesome when it happens!

.. when we don't, maybe it's still awesome because they've been put in our path to sharpen our perception, challenge us, etc.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 06, 2017 07:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ah, Yun, I think you mean Forrest not Arroyo.

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Faith
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posted January 06, 2017 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
But the point you're making I think, Faith, is that no matter how laudable and excellent an astrologer may be,our personal reception of their ideas and the way they put them forward is going to be influenced by our Ssynastry with them.

Yes, that was my point.

My Saturn squares Arroyo's Mercury-Jupiter on the Libra-Scorpio cusp.

I was just looking for quotes of his online and found one that illustrates what I dislike, on a vibe-level. Mine is not a well-rounded or educated opinion. Just a little recoil.

quote:
I always take an aspect between the ruling planets (i.e., the rulers of their Ascendants) as a testimony to the fact that the two people are likely to have a relationship of extraordinary intensity and importance… The close interaction of the ruling planets’ energies can be seen as indicative of a particularly specific symbol of how the two people interact with each other… in the vast majority of such cases, all of the other levels of interaction shown in a comparison will be secondary to the intense type of interchange symbolized by the aspect between the rulers.

This is a clean, strong hit. But almost gimmicky, like he is selling me something, like he is more concerned with the verbal art of persuasion than an astrological sense of proportion and balance. That is what I *suspect,* but it's not to say my suspicion is valid, it's just how my mind works at this point, explaining the "errrrr.... " feeling.

Anyway, sorry, I'm off topic.

As for asteroid astrology, maybe it's meant to be that we all develop our own relationships with them, our own sets of favorites and key signifiers. I'm especially fond of all asteroids conjunct my sun natally, and this bias seems justified when I consider how they've played out tellingly in synastry, and that's enough for me. No control group, data, or background check. This is my own personal universe speaking to me, a conversation with myself wired through the sky.

And I agree with this, what yungang said:

quote:
I think like so many things in this strange strange world, asteroids can shift and change their meaning and application as the situation deems necessary. Obviously their configuration in a given chart well have very particular implications and a creative; flexible, fluid analysis of their interpenetrations and subtle specific funny meanings is usually more revelatory and useful ultimately than a rigid approach.

Astrology is an art... it really is... it isn't purely scientific, although it obeys certain rules, decidedly it does. But the importance of fluidity in our interpretations is huge because the symbols and bodies themselves are indeed changing their meaning and action as our consciousness changes. i mean the art of astrology has changed so much in the last 100 years and it will continue to evolve as we do.


Brilliant

My complaint has been just about foul play. Saying there's research when no one has seen it. Saying it means something definitively when we're not sure yet. Claiming expertise in a discipline that is still in its nascent phase, upsetting a slow and organic process of evolution, and usurping power from the collective.

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 06, 2017 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
ah, Yun, I think you mean Forrest not Arroyo.


Big time.

Thanks I'm a Neptunian basket case.

Arroyo is a whole other kettle of fish... a very palatable one!

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 06, 2017 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"My complaint has been just about foul play. Saying there's research when no one has seen it. Saying it means something definitively when we're not sure yet. Claiming expertise in a discipline that is still in its nascent phase, upsetting a slow and organic process of evolution, and usurping power from the collective."

Yes-!

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Elysia
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posted January 06, 2017 08:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Love this conversation!

Sorry to veer off topic for a second.

*whispering off to the side*

(@Elysia - I think our Mercury synastry is great! I don't know Arroyo, but his Mars is conjunct Jupiter and maybe that just gave an amplified Scorpio Mars jolt to me which, in person, might translate to a crush for all I know (he was pretty cute in younger days, I see. ) I only meant to say, synastry matters.)


Yes, Faithy.. Me was only teasing..

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KoreAbyss
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posted January 06, 2017 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KoreAbyss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Ceri,

I do think that energy put out has an effect like Destinn being perceived by many to mean Destiny and then it continues out from us as a collective to adhere to that meaning. Sort of like an egregore.

But I also think that it's important to look at the discovery chart to figure out what energy comes along with it naturally. But then the discovery becomes like the MC of an asteroid because it's the public recognition of it, right? It's not to say that another hasn't seen it before. Like a mother giving birth to a child alone doesn't change their birth date based on when others witnessed the child. Does thay make sense? Lol dunno if my line of thought is on point. But I think studying charts becomes very important no matter what the discovery chart tells us.

I think they get their meaning from what they are. A sort of realistic approach, "realistic" meaning no matter how the energy is being perceived it has a pure nature. Like the swastika originally meaning great things and being perverted through misuse,does it not mean the wonderful things it once did? The power of perception is great but discovering the depth of a thing is where truth emerges. What created this symbol? What is at it's core?

It takes time to dive down into that truth though so we most likely will continue creating our world, our own meanings. It isnt a bad thing when you're trying to create good but when you're trying to create ill it becomes a problem.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 07, 2017 04:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Faith,


that is interesting how you read the quote, which I like very much and agree with, at least to a certain degree; I might not just be as black/white in this, but anyway I read the quote differently, or maybe I concluded something different from it.

For me he was just trying to be extremely clear to really bring his point across; does not mean I have to "buy" his point, but that I will hear it with clarity; I actually like that, as it does not feel like he is "beating around the bush". Of course you have to still think for yourself, as taken only as a stand alone quote this sounds insanely black/white and ignoring astrological complexity.

(which he does not really do, I`ve read most of his books at least twice, and he has a firm grasp on his approach/ methodology, which is actually not that onesided as it might sound in this quote. Of course he covers a lot of "basic stuff", but there are interesting points to discover, even though of course, it is just a start of a learning process. At least it was for me. lol)


EDIT
On that tangeant

Arroyo and me share an Aqua-Moon. lol
his Moon is exactly conjunct my Psyche-Lilith and sextile my Sun-Mercury
his Sun also trines my Moon


his ASC exact trines my ASC and conj. my IC, my Pluto on his DESC

Incidentally our chartrulers are trine by 3 degrees (in water signs)


His Mercury-Jupiter on my 3rd house ruler Uranus

his NN conj. my SN, and his NN also near my Karma


his Saturn trines my ASC exact


I`d say we have decent synastry. lol

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Faith
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posted January 07, 2017 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Ceri

I think I'm really sensitive to writing and can't get through certain books no matter how much I am interested in the subject or admire the author.

But I believe you that Arroyo is worthy of attention and excellent in many respects.

As for the great significance of synastry ties between chart rulers, I don't know, because I tend to not have friendships or relationships with people who strongly aspect my sun.

Maybe because if they aspect my sun, they aspect all or most of my planets in the second decan, and I can just be "too much" when you interact with that core. Most of the people I'm close to actually have no or few planets in the second decan. They sidestep my issues that way. Come to think of it maybe if I get over my issues I will have more second decan friends. But taking over an asteroid thread to complain about my issues...is an issue in itself. Stopping now.

PS But your chart ruler Pisces Jupiter sextile my sun is copacetic, maybe because it's Pisces.

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Faith
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posted January 07, 2017 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KoreAbyss:
Hey Ceri,

I do think that energy put out has an effect like Destinn being perceived by many to mean Destiny and then it continues out from us as a collective to adhere to that meaning. Sort of like an egregore.


I'm not Ceri but I'm curious about what an egregore is?

quote:
Egregore (also egregor) is an occult concept representing a "thoughtform" or "collective group mind", an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people.

Hey I believed in that before I knew the word!

quote:
Originally posted by KoreAbyss:
But I also think that it's important to look at the discovery chart to figure out what energy comes along with it naturally.

It's also just FUN (in my opinion), if you have the chart handy, and you have the time to look.

quote:
Originally posted by KoreAbyss:
But then the discovery becomes like the MC of an asteroid because it's the public recognition of it, right?

But they are publicly recognized in many ways:

- their background/mythology, or whatever they were named for
- how they form pairs or sets according to theme
- anecdotes

These "MCs" won't be superceded by the discovery chart, I don't think. They all overlap to make one MC.

quote:
Originally posted by KoreAbyss:
I think they get their meaning from what they are. A sort of realistic approach, "realistic" meaning no matter how the energy is being perceived it has a pure nature.

Not if it's an egregore, though, right?

quote:
Originally posted by KoreAbyss:
Like the swastika originally meaning great things and being perverted through misuse,does it not mean the wonderful things it once did? The power of perception is great but discovering the depth of a thing is where truth emerges. What created this symbol? What is at it's core?

Interesting questions

quote:
Originally posted by KoreAbyss:
It takes time to dive down into that truth though so we most likely will continue creating our world, our own meanings. It isnt a bad thing when you're trying to create good but when you're trying to create ill it becomes a problem.

I agree.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 07, 2017 10:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It`s my party, so I can cry as much as I want to...


or my thread, and I can derail it.


Interestingly I`ve stayed away for a long time from friends or people aspecting my Sun-Mercury. Well there was an isolated trine or sextile here or there, but even that sometimes felt too much (except for Saturn squaring it, that seemed kinda okay. lol)

Having someone REALLY trigger that felt a bit like being electrocuted at first, until I realized that really the electricity was ME. Like switching on a light, that I had never really used before, literally. lol


even in family synastry aspects to my Sun-Mercury are scarce, well except that:

my mom`s Moon squares my Sun (maybe that is the reason they ARE scarce )


and my youngest brother`s Neptune-MC falls there and his ASC squares it, well he`s always been the one in my family who I felt was really "getting" me (the others love me and support me but I don`t think they always understand this side of me)


However in terms of friendships it seems like this is rarely strongly triggered, as I said trines and sextiles are okay. lol

Bring a conjunction or square to a personal planet there, and it`s like it`s lightening up like a christmas tree. lol

Interestingly recently those guys I met, except for P, or not even met, but you know, they seem to all trigger that Sun in one way or the other

P`s best friend squares it with his Sun-Venus
Lancelot squares it with his Mercury-Vesta
another guy also squares it with his Mercury


Funny that.


As for ruler-aspects. I love it if my chartruler Jupiter is aspected strongly, and yes, I gladly take a square or opposition. lol

As for ruler to ruler.

are you aware that our chartrulers are sextile?

well my brother and me have the square, P and me have the opposition (btw I am using traditional rulerships, too).

It`s not THAT often happening for me, but if it does, it feels quite energetic.
I think in P`s and my synastry it´s even the tightest aspect.

Nope, I was wrong, it is 6 minutes of orb, his intercepted 1st ruler, opposing my ASC-ruler, his traditional chartruler is also opposing my chartruler but with a bit more than 1 degree.

these aspects are even tighter

his Jupiter square my nodal axis 0.00
his NN trine my Vesta 0.00
his NN sextile my Uranus 0.01
his Ceres trine my ASC 0.01
his Chiron sextile my Ceres 0.01
his Pluto square my Vertex 0.05


LOL


Well what I want to say though is that while I think ARroyo has a point there and we should be checking the condition of the chartrulers (which we sometimes forget), it is of course not that way that we can just tick off a box. If it is there, it will be all consuming whatever. If it is not, it`s doomed.

That is not how it works. It is of importance, yes. But it also depends how our chartruler is placed, as you mentioned. Sometimes it might be easier to not have it pulled into the spotlight.


in my case, it`s Jupiter and it is widely sextile Venus, trine Saturn and squaring Mars-Neptune-ASC-NN.

Mars is disposited by Jupiter as well as Neptune, so, square or not, they can work with that energy.


BTW that is something Arroyo taught me, checking the placements of the dispositors, it`s pretty interesting to do so.

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