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Author Topic:   Conspiracy theories can lead to paranoia
listenstotrees
Knowflake

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posted January 29, 2012 01:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Conspiracy theories can lead to paranoia, so I would just like to ask anyone who may have recently got into this, or even anyone else, to just be aware. It is all very well for researchers to go around "connecting dots", but this activity can be rather ambiguous, and there is such an incredible amount of information to sift through (that no human being has time to go and check for themselves, without dedicating their entire life to it), and it is easy to confuse the woods for the trees. My advice is, that while all these things truly are fascinating, one has to wonder, where is the actual evidence?

As an example, until I see actual evidence that malevolent, shape-shifting reptilian beings have been manipulating the planet, the idea that there is any truth in this is very unlikely, and existing evidence for such seems to be nothing more than a few accounts of experiences given by people who could very well be delusional or unwell in other ways, attention seeking or disinformationists. So called evidence of shape-shifters "caught on camera" is nothing more than interference with the camera, broadcasting etc causing the pixels to be disoroganised. When people start taking this sort of thing seriously it really does get rather ridiculous, and it is a good sign that a break is needed from reading about such stuff to rebalance oneself.

If anyone here has ever been a member of any large conspiracy forum, they may have noticed that there is a tendency for many of those who frequent it to suffer from paranoia, whether occasional, periodic or persistent.

One of the researchers I have in mind seems to suffer from paranoia personally, as evident in a recent newspaper article regarding their personal life. I also know someone who personally passed by them in a super market, who had this researcher bump into them without apologising, then watched them wander away muttering to themself. This is someone who has no reason to bad talk this researcher, as they actually helped moderate their forum.

So if you feel the need to research this stuff, please do by all means, but try to remember it is important not to put too much faith into the testimonies of others, if you really do want to find the real truth.

Hmm, and "finding the truth" is somewhat of a task....sigh.

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Cancer/Scorpio729
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posted January 29, 2012 01:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cancer/Scorpio729     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Seems to be everywhere sometimes.

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LEXX
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posted January 29, 2012 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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~The present time is theirs, but the future is mine.~Никола Тесла
~I remember, therefore I am immortal~LEXX
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SunChild
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posted January 30, 2012 06:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If this forum had stickies, this would be a good sticky.

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SunChild
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posted January 30, 2012 06:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I may have found some evidence....

But in all seriousness, wise words LTT.

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SunChild
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posted January 30, 2012 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I remember reading that article and wondering myself.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted January 30, 2012 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I'm going to go out on a limb and say... is this about a Mr Icke?

Lol, can someone linky said article..?

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SunChild
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posted January 31, 2012 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lei ....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2083287/David-Ickes-marriage-breakdown-He-claimed-hes-Son-God-world-run-alien-lizards-story-marriage-breakdown-weird.html

I'm not a fan of the dailymail but this is the said story

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Lei_Kuei
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posted January 31, 2012 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm thanks,

That blonde is hot... crazy for dumping her, reptilian or not LOL :P

I still like David, ultimately his personal life isn't of much interest to me. I certainly take everything he says with a grain of salt, but he isn't forcing anyone to listen to him -nods-

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LEXX
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posted January 31, 2012 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LEXX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a flaming loser.
And other losers are paying him.

And people actually believe this moron??????????
And "if" there were anything to all that reptilian bullshite;
which I do not buy.....
but if,
then icky Icke should look at his own creepy face.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted January 31, 2012 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ya, Ive always thought he made a really good Gul Dukat LOL

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SunChild
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posted January 31, 2012 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm somewhere in the middle...

I've sat through 2x 8 hour lectures.
He has researched enough to be convinced about most of what he talks about, he genuinely believes it himself. He has gone through a lot of heat, has been cruelly ridiculed, delusional or not, even if he is an insane person, the amount of ridicule he had to suffer was pretty bad and I definitely felt for him. I do not believe him to be delusional or insane. That's my personal opinion and I hope I do not offend others. He feels a huge weight on his shoulders, and I do not believe he is just doing this for the money.
With that said I don't buy anything he says, I merely have noted it.
I can't prove half the sh!t he says to myself or anyone else for that matter.

As far as physiognomy is concerned, yes Icke has a very interesting face, there's a lot of worry and torment evident, his eyes indicate that unless he is focused on what HE is talking about then he would certainly be off with thought, hence why he could bump into someone without noticing. He has a philosophers brow. Worry lines. Pessimistic lips. Lips indicate he has a rich emotional life. Eyebrows that lift often. Bags under his eyes from deprivation of sleep/rest. Poor diet I am sure of.
He is in a lot of pain, I mean arthritic pain. He has a great smile but I don't think he smiles very often, it's almost a permanent frown. No smile lines in corner of eyes. Very deep thinking lines in the middle brow. That's what I see when I look at his face.

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listenstotrees
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posted February 01, 2012 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sunchild

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listenstotrees
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posted February 01, 2012 02:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've heard that in a new episode of Southpark (a seriously messed up cartoon but somehow I can't help watching it)- that it is revealed that in the Vatican, the Catholic Church is secretly ruled by a giant spider.....so if something like this can be in an episode of Southpark, then maybe there is some substance to conspiracy material.

I might post a thread on it here in "Spider Line" in the future if I manage to find some clips.

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iQ
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posted February 01, 2012 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You raise some good points LTT but there is a huge risk in insisting only on material evidence for conviction. When the wealthy can hide and control information using Official Secrecy Acts, it is insane and I would dare say suicidal to deny circumstantial evidence. I just cannot trust those who force Fluoride down our throats.
Can we honestly trust George Bush and Tony Blair who swore there were WMDS in Iraq?
Or accept Dick Cheney's words if he says he has no interest in Haliburton?
The official scientists assured the world that Thalidomide was safe. They injected Mercury/Thimerosal in vaccines for ages.
You want to believe their word over say Jim Humble or Linus Pauling?


Some examples. What evidence would have convinced the victims of Ted Bundy to avoid dating him?
Would anyone have believed a chance survivor? She would have been easily "proved" delusional by the suave, erudite Bundy.
God knows how many Ted Bundys are still out there, waiting for the trigger. Paul Bernardo was a successful salesman. Would you allow him to date your daughter because Icke is a "lunatic" and "programmed killers" just cannot exist? Just because Icke says so, the allegedly Hybrid people with Fully Black Eyes cannot exist? I know a woman who loathes and hates Icke but even she is an eye-witness to top New Age Cult leaders having this "shape shift" of the eyes.

Another example. If Hitler had won, all the Nazi gas chamber doctors would have been hailed as great scientists and heroes. I wonder if the rationalists who demand hard evidence would take their word when they said "We just dissected a dozen dead jews who got accidental allergic reactions to our patented medicine. Honest. We have government medals, degrees and certificates...if you do not believe us, you must be a Paranoid Conspiracy Nut and we will report you to the Gestapo for behavior correction...."

The good of David Icke:
------------------------
If we delete all Icke's references to physical shape shifting reptilians and understand that his pre-2001 rants about being a "son of god" etc are part of imbalanced Kundalini Symptoms, then the rest of his research is very much brave, fascinating and enlightening.

He directly or indirectly helped expose:
1. Satanic Ritual Abuse and Trauma based programming. I have 100% evidence of this from "non-delusional" people who are not on some prescription medication. These people would not have spoken out if it were not for those like Icke.

2. Child Prostitution Rings in upper and middle echelons of British Government/Bureaucracy.
If it were not for Icke, thousands more children would be missing or devastated.
Thanks to Icke, parents [who read his research] have become more vigilant and aware.

3. Banking/Big Oil Family Cartels and their links to Royalty/Freemasonry/Vatican etc:
Though he goes overboard in to the 13 Families, the links of the dark family financial Trusts that control the most greedy, polluting and abusive businesses in the world, would forever have been kept a secret.
This was well known to big businessmen who did not belong to the committee of 300 but Icke publicized this excellently.
Today, Indian Farmers know about Monsanto's evil and can fight of their infringement into local crops. Icke is very very popular in India. Ofcourse, in Indian traditions, the "Naga Devas" or snake people/shape shifting dieties are well known from ancient records so it is not easy to be put off by his views on this subject. They are considered neutral, not evil. That is the main difference.

Today, a US Marine aged 88 candidly speaks of how he set up bisexual Hollywood greats with escorts. Deniers would not have believed this if Icke said the same. Today Prince Charles can boldly claim descent from Count Vlad the Impaler. Yet, nobody will raise an eyebrow. But if Icke said something like this in 2002-2003, he would be laughed off.

"Denial is the most predictable of Human Response": The Arhitect of the Matrix.

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SunChild
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posted February 01, 2012 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes he is much more than is written about in mags and tabloids.
I was going to mention earlier that I would not have listened to 20+ hours of his information if there wasn't something to it, the examples iq gave encapsulate what most gain from Ickes info. If anyone writes him off as a nutjob it's usually because they have not taken the time to read his books or listen to his lectures. In the event that they have, it's usually the reptillian thing that's turned them off but it shouldn't let you overlook this heroic man and his message for humanity.

LTT I would be interested in seeing that episode.

Great thoughts IQ

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katatonic
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posted February 01, 2012 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i believe he was misconstrued in the "i am the son of god" statement. he has believed for decades that we are ALL the sons (daughters) of god. however he has a VERY arrogant delivery, and made a serious fool of himself on that tv interview by going completely berserkly angry at the host, a lightweight humourous host who, while not stupid, is paid to provoke interesting responses...and david icke had been in the tv business long enough to "get" that.

i take what he says with a grain of salt. a lot of interesting information comes from his research and writing. a lot of truthful info too. whether i will ever swallow the whole, i doubt...

i was in england when he had his epiphany and started writing. he was laughed at and became angry, as the tv interview recorded; and it was THEN that he started on his current path, exposing the powers that be ...how much of his message is driven by anger and revenge and how much out of love and wanting to free us? i don't know!

for instance his stance on aspartame, which i would not use just from instinctive wariness, MAY be over the top. aspartame is made from aspartic acid (an amino acid i believe) and phenylalanine. it CAN be dangerous to some people who cannot metabolize phenylalanine.

phenylalinine is important for your health. some people can't process it. this is why a test called PKO is given newborns, since the side effects of poor processing are increasing mental retardation as a child grows.

this actually ties in with what david says about aspartame, but i do not know if it is really dangerous to the general population.

stuart wilde, a sometime friend of his and somewhat renegade "new ager", describes david as a "scallywag". (he also describes himself as one).

personally i think all the energy he has focussed on his timelines and plots MAY be pushing him over the edge. or maybe he is just looking for an out from the wife!

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listenstotrees
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posted February 02, 2012 03:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've watched and listened to most of his online talks, been to a live talk in London, and met him in person. I feel that he believes what he says is true.

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listenstotrees
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posted February 02, 2012 04:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Just because Icke says so, the allegedly Hybrid people with Fully Black Eyes cannot exist? I know a woman who loathes and hates Icke but even she is an eye-witness to top New Age Cult leaders having this "shape shift" of the eyes.

Yes, but the question is, how many of the people who have seen things have never taken hallucigenic drugs, or know for sure that no-one slipped something into their drink or roll-up etc at the time? I've heard that LSD for example can stay in the brain and cause hallucinations several years after taking it. There is also the question of possibility that some of these people are just medically prone to hallucinations.....and anyone can hallucinate under various circumstances. I work with the elderly and I experience seeing people with alzheimers or who are dying seeing various hallucinations often. I'm not saying that I don't believe it is possible for those who are ill to be sensitive to other dimensions; I do believe it is possible and I am always vigilant to notice anything interesting....however my instincts tell me that most of it is just in the person's mind, and that for chemical reasons what is in the mind and what is seen by the eyes is not being separated as it would be normally without the illness. Lots of medicines can also cause hallucinations as a side-effect.

In a way, I want to be like you iQ. I want to feel that I am able to be in tune with and connect to other realms. I want to feel that I have made some progress in the path to finding the keys to spiritual knowledge etc. I just feel that there isn't enough that really adds up; too much in my experience conflicts. I've seen how people get carried away with their religions, claiming only theirs is the right one....I experienced this myself in my early teens. I've seen how people get carried away with the new-age type stuff.....it isn't really any different.

I also have personal experience of knowing someone who a little while back believed they had experience of the illuminati and trauma based mind control, who later realized that the combination of depression, being influenced by others into conspiracies, and confusing some of this with genuine traumatic memories......caused the delusions.

But gosh....how the romantic side of me would love to have total faith that what people such as Richard Hoagland (who worked for Nasa) is true, without having to weigh it up in my mind. I loved watching Star Wars as a child....and am watching it again now, hence why it comes to mind. In one of his interviews Hoagland says that one of the images taken on the moon (that Nasa censored) was analysed by his computer to be put into 3-d and it turned out to resemble very much one of the robots from Star Wars. And that he feels that George Lucas may have been in cahoots with Nasa. I would love to believe this. But then again...what is with his hairdo? Perhaps he is simply just a romantic soul, tormented by his romantic hunger, driven to mild insanity.

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listenstotrees
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posted February 02, 2012 04:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm....maybe Luke Skywalker is an archetype connected to Davd Icke. They kind of look similar?

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iQ
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posted February 02, 2012 06:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi LTT,
I agree about the LSD/Magic Mushroom type cases [this is very well documented] and cases where depression comes first followed by paranoia/delusions. These cases confuse from the genuine cases.

But I am an eye-witness to the paranormal, and I have dcoumented sane people give testimony about the paranormal. From an age prior to invention of such medicines.
I once collected testimony of over a dozen witnesses of an exorcism. They gave the exact same version. A weak teenaged lady balancing her entire body weight on the tips of her thumbs, and speaking an ancient dialect in this state! (The actual witnesses were in the dozens as nearly seven men were needed to pin down the weak teenaged girl for completion of the prayer based exorcism). In another case, a healer broke the oath of secrecy to convince a shrink and a surgeon [the last people on earth who are insane or superstitious] by actually demonstrating a physical effect of an occult healing ritual. The two docs apologized to each and every member of the family, as they were ridiculing them for believing in this "nonsense" for decades.

When the testimony of such individuals is sufficient to convince a Jury in a murder case, why should it not convince us about the para-normal?

There is too much evidence personally collected by me to dismiss the para-normal.
Plus too much astrological evidence. And so many hints. Take even the hit TV Series "Supernatural". All the so called gifted kids for use in the dark side are said to be born in 1983. Why did the writers choose the very year when USS Eldridge went before coming back to 1943? And it was this incident that started everything from Nuclear bombing to Project Montauk etc.

And even in science, why isn't anybody questioning their teachers or professors about Reverse Transcriptase? How can such an enzyme suddenly appear in a Virus in 1950s [post Roswell] whilst escaping billions of years of natural evolution in millions of Earth Species?

From Wiki:
<<
The idea of reverse transcription was very unpopular at first as it contradicted the central dogma of molecular biology which states that DNA is transcribed into RNA which is then translated into proteins. However, in 1970 when the scientists Howard Temin and David Baltimore both independently discovered the enzyme responsible for reverse transcription, named reverse transcriptase, the possibility that genetic information could be passed on in this manner was finally accepted.>>
Yes, accepted but no one thought (or even wanted to think) HOW could this enzyme have EVOLVED on Earth by breaking the Laws of Evolution? And get conveniently into a Humanity Killing Virus?


Yes, Icke can be over the top. Hoagland has had made many gaffes too but from what I have studied, there are very smart people who feed the right kind of disinformation to trigger the conspiracy researchers into making just enough mistakes to ensure the harvest oops majority of masses do not awaken.


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listenstotrees
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posted February 02, 2012 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm no Susan Blackmore, iQ, however I just think the new-age arena and spiritualist arena etc could do with a dose of discernment to balance it out, and improved training (when it comes to mediums etc).

I've sat in many a spiritualist evening of mediumship, and while a few interesting things are said now and then, there is a often lot of nonsense/ ramble to ruin it. I wish we could see more training such as seen in the program "Tony Stockwell's psychic academy" and mediums who come out with information that is just too detailed, precise and accurate such as he and Gordon Smith and others.

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T
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posted February 02, 2012 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well said LTT.

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Cancer/Scorpio729
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posted February 03, 2012 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cancer/Scorpio729     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by listenstotrees:
I've heard that in a new episode of Southpark (a seriously messed up cartoon but somehow I can't help watching it)- that it is revealed that in the Vatican, the Catholic Church is secretly ruled by a giant spider.....so if something like this can be in an episode of Southpark, then maybe there is some substance to conspiracy material.

There is a lot to be found in Southpark. Have you seen the episode "The Ring"?
Southpark gets away with being obvious about a lot of things because no one takes anything in that show seriously.

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iQ
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posted February 03, 2012 03:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it is easier to get more truthful information by doing our own honest research into anomalous events than to rely on mediums.

I write this as Neptune is about to enter 0.00 Pisces again. False mediums, fake psychics and disinfo artists will see an exponential growth in the coming months as the confusing aspect of Neptune gets to those who may not have a pure heart nor have the heart to accept the truth.

BTW, to add to the 1947 Anomalies, it was not just Roswell. Admiral Byrd led an expedition to Antarctica with 4700 trained men, called Operation Highjump. This decorated hero and Freemason is alleged to have intercated with "Agartha" during his Arctic Mission as well [though I cannot trust his so called diary...].

Who sends 4700 trained people under such a successful Admiral for some random exercise?

Who else was interested in Antarctica? The Nazis.
But why after 1945, why after the so called convenient suicide/death of Hitler?
Why? Why? Why? Thinking about all these why's can be very insightful. They had to be looking for someone [or something...]

Genuine Reference with clipping of the newspaper as proof:
On March 5, 1947 the "El Mercurio" newspaper of Santiago, Chile, had a headline article "On Board the Mount Olympus on the High Seas" which quoted Byrd in an interview with Lee van Atta: "Adm. Byrd declared today that it was imperative for the United States to initiate immediate defense measures against hostile regions.

The admiral further stated that he didn't want to frighten anyone unduly but that it was a bitter reality that in case of a new war the continental United States would be attacked by flying objects which could fly from pole to pole at incredible speeds. [Earlier he had recommended defense bases AT the NORTH Pole.] Admiral Byrd repeated the above points of view, resulting from his personal knowledge gathered both at the north and south poles, before a news conference held for International News Service." When Byrd returned to the States, he was hospitalized and was not allowed to hold any more press conferences. In March 1955, he was placed in charge of Operation Deepfreeze which was part of the International Geophysical Year [1957-1958] exploration of the Antarctic. He died, some have suggested he was murdered, in 1957.
"

Jim Keith wrote about "Saucers of the Illuminati". He was murdered. His inspiration was reporter Danny Casolaro. Danny was also murdered.

Keith's work and Byrds confessions actually point to the entire UFO Phenomenon being Earth based, to set up a staged alien invasion. Tantrik Vimalananda gave even more insight. UFOs = "Home Grown" Mischief by ETs who inhabit our home...
The actual invasion may have been completed eons ago....


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