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Author Topic:   ADHD and overlapping Disorders,Conditions
Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 1547
From: Sacramento,California,USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted January 09, 2008 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
I am not a believer in AD/HD as a disorder that need to be medicated. I believe that it is an alternative way of being,thinking,and learning.

DRD4 has been associated with ADHD in various studies. A variation of

it,DRD4 7R is found to be closely linked to ADHD and a behavior called

novelty seeking. The human gene study suggests that behavior now

considered inappropriate in a classroom may be related to behavior

that once helped humans overcome their environment. Approximately half

of children with ADHD have the 7R allele. It's suggested to occur

spontaneously from 10,000 to 40,000 years ago. The discovery

confirmed Thom Hartmann's theory of ADHD as being a hunter trait. He

wrote about in his book,THE EDISON GENE. It was his books that got me

to believe that ADHD is not a disorder that needs medication,but an

alternative way of being,thinking and learning.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/01/020109074512.htm
http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/3rdQtr_2002/record0008.html
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/medicine/d65fc4522fa84010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html
http://www.ucihealth.com/News/Releases/ADHD-advantageousGene.htm

According to Tom Hartmann, Edison-gene children and adults are by nature:

page 4-5 of THE EDISON GENE: ADHD and the Gift of the Hunter Child/

Enthusiastic

Creative

Disorganized

Non-Linear in their thinking(they leap to new conclusions or observations)

Innovative

Easily distracted (or,to put it differently,easily attracted to new stimuli)

Capable of extraordinary hyperfocus

Understanding of what it means to be an "outsider"

Determined

Eccentric

Easily Bored

Impulsive

Entrepreneurial

Energetic

All of these qualities lead them to be natural:

Explorers

Inventors

Discoverers

Leaders

According to the author of DRIVEN TO DISTRACTION, Dr. Ned Hallowell, a psychiatrist who has AD/HD and Dyslexia

The Positive Aspects of AD/HD

Most descriptions of AD/HD focus on the negative aspects and neglect to mention the advantages to having AD/HD. They include:

* Creativity

* High Energy

* Intuitiveness

* Resourcefulness

* Tenacity

* Warm-heartedness

* Trusting Attitude (sometimes too much so)

* Forgiving attitude (sometimes too much so)

* Sensitivity

* Ability to take risks (sometimes too risky)

* Flexibility

* Loyalty

* Good sense of humor

Not all persons with AD/HD have all these traits, but to the extent that there is such a thing as the AD/HD personality this list of positive qualities describes the advantageous side of the AD/HD personality. It should be noted that the problems AD/HD causes can be so severe that these positive qualities never gain full expression or recognition.
http://www.drhallowell.com/resources/articles/positive_aspects.html

AD/HD is an inherited personality trait that involves alternative way of being,thinking,and learning and doesn't fit with mainstream schools which involves auditory sequential teaching methods and rote memorization which are weaknesses for ADHDers. I believe that education reform is strongly needed and need to get rid of the "one teaching" fits all. That's definitely not true. AD/HDers need to be stopped being seen as defective because we don't fit in society's box. We are not people that need to be fixed.

I don't think that all ADHD is genetic,and so it can have other causes

According to the book, ADD AND ADHD COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE SOLUTIONS by Charles Gant,MD,PhD

Physiological Risk Factors For ADHD

1. Food and Additive Allergies and Sensitivitites

2. Heavy and Toxic Metal Toxicity

3. Low-Protein,High-Carbohydrate Diet(Long-Term,not Acute)

4.Mineral Imbalances

5.Essential Fatty Acid and Phospholid Deficiencies

6.Amino Acid Deficiencies

7.Thyroid Disorders

8.B Vitamin Deficiencies

I think ADHD Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder should be renamed Attention Divergent Hyperactivity Diversity

btw..not all ADHDers are hyperactive

According to DSM-IV-TR....there are 3 types of ADHD

ADHD,inattentive type.......that's predominanty inattentive symptoms

ADHD,hyperactive type.....that's predominantly hyperactive and/or impulsivity symptoms

ADHD,combined type.......that's combination of inattentive type and hyperactive type symptoms

AD/HD has overlap with Dyspraxia around 50 percent. Dyslexia and ADHD occur in 30 - 50 percent of cases.

Also short term memory issues fit right in with both Dyslexia and Dyspraxia and not just AD/HD. I'd think Dyspraxic's short term memory problems are global compared to Dyslexics who might have short term memory issues with words whether written or oral(especially if they have auditory processing issues). Dyslexics tend to have problems with sequences in regards to words, and Dyspraxics seem to have global problems with sequences like problems with sequential memory for actions in connection with planning/coordination issues which are hallmark of Dyspraxia.

Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD overlap and said to have some connection with Omega fatty acid deficiencies....especiall y DHA.
http://www.levente.nl/wetenschappelijk/richardson.pdf

DANDA(Developmental Adult Neuro-Diversity Association) has grown out of the Dyspraxia Foundation Adult Support Group, as it became clear that most people connected to the Group did not have dyspraxia alone. Most, in fact, had AD(H)D (Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder, Asperger's Syndrome or dyslexia as well. It was the norm rather than the exception.
http://www.danda.org.uk/pages/about-danda.php

I am an Auditory,Phonological Dyslexic,Dyspraxic,inattentive type ADHD myself. I am not even sure that I have inattentive type ADHD because every one of my symptoms can actually come from my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia combination. I even did poorly on TOVA,the AD/HD test because of eye tracking/coordination and sensory integration issues(getting dizzy from the stimuli) which were confirmed by neurologists

Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,AD/HD share problems with short term memory,disorganization,nonlinear thought processes,thinking outside the box in common,and I have a history of of all those issues. Dyslexia,Dyspraxia share problems with directions,sequences in common,and I have a history of those issues. The Dysexic's problems with sequences have to do with remembering the order of letters,words,sentences,and paragraphs, and I have history of those issues. The Dyspraxics problems with sequence have to do with remembering the order of actions performed,and I have a history of those issues. Dyslexics and Dyspraxics can share problems with speech and tend to have history of speech delays. The Auditory,Phonological Dyslexic's problem with speech is more with phonological,word retrieval problems, and I have history of those pissues.. The Dyspraxic's problem with speech is more with problems with coordination like problems using their mouth,lips,tongue, and I have a history of those issues. Dyslexics and Dyspraxics can share problems with visual processing. Visual Dyslexics seem to have problems with visual processing due to scotopic sensitivity aka Irlen Syndrome. Dyspraxics seem to have problems with visual processing due to eye tracking/coordination problems,and I have history of those issues. I had fine motor skills therapy, auditory therapy,speech therapy,and phonics to remediate my Dyslexia and Dyspraxia to the point that the problems are mild and not severe which landed me in special education including 1st grade the mentally retarded.

There should be care taken to make sure Dyslexia doesn't get misdiagnosed AD/HD

Dyslexia,inattentive type ADHD stems from a predominantly right-brained learning style. Dyslexia and inattentive type AD/HD are often seen in highly creative individuals and are common in gifted children. In many ways, the symptoms of AD/HD may be the result of an unharnessed imagination.

A child's academic and language processing difficulties will simply make it very difficult to sustain attention,follow instructions,or to complete school work. It's important to make sure Dyslexia doesn't get misdiagnosed inattentive type ADHD.

A child who is frustrated or confused in a classroom will have a hard time sitting still or obeying rules. It is important to make sure that Dyslexia doesn't get misdiagnosed hyperactive type ADHD

ADHD and Depression have overlapping symptoms of problems with memory,forgetfulness,and concentration...that's the inattentive type ADHD,and I do have a history of Depression,and was diagnosed as have Dysthymic Disorder.

ADHD and Anxiety share high strung nature...the hyperactive type. I have a diagnosed Generalized Anxiety Disorder.


ADHD and Bipolar share talkativeness,hyperactivity,distractibility,as well as being highly emotional. I was misdiagnosed Bipolar because of those issues.

As you can see, ADHD symptoms can have many causes and they can overlap with other conditions. They can be confused with other conditions.

Raymond Andrews

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26taurus
Knowflake

Posts: 12737
From: *
Registered: Jun 2004

posted January 16, 2008 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you for posting these articles.

I'm going to have to read them when i have more time, but i will.

Just wanted you to know it's appreciated.

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yourfriendinspirit
Moderator

Posts: 2136
From: California, USA
Registered: Oct 2006

posted January 17, 2008 05:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yourfriendinspirit     Edit/Delete Message
My son now almost 6 years old was diagnosed with HD (Hyperactivity disorder) at the fine age of 3 years old. Note the AD part does not apply to him (Attention Deficit)

*Because of his age and our own opinions regarding medicinal use we chose alternative treatment rather than go with the specialists recommendation for drugs. We use melatonin and it has truly made an amazing difference in our lives.

Prior to using melatonin (which is all natural, non addictive, something a persons body automatically creates via exposure to sunshine) He was unable to sleep for any longer than 20 minutes at any given time. He was continually getting into trouble (very dangerous situations) in the middle of the night while he was wide awake and our family slept. He never, ever slept through the night from birth until aged 3 1/2 years old! That meant an adult was responsible for also staying awake during these hours to attend to and care for him. We tried other methods with some relief/benefit such as light therapy, etc. but no solution seemed to fully address the issues he had.

I agree 100% that he exhibits

* High Energy

* Intuitiveness

* Resourcefulness

* Tenacity

* Warmheartedness

* Trusting Attitude (sometimes too much so)

* Forgiving attitude (sometimes too much so)

* Sensitivity

* Ability to take risks (sometimes too risky)

* Flexibility

* Loyalty

* Good sense of humor

Inventors and Explorers they are!
For him, dangerously so!!!

He's the kid who will blow up your kitchen inventing a new chemical in order to help wash the dishes, LOL!

He's also the kid who will disappear in lightning speed time with no trace and after exhausting searches for him will return with having had an adventure across town involving policemen, firetrucks, and weapons. If your lucky he didn't drag the baby sister along on the adventure!

He's not particularly honest either. If he hasn't physically taken adventures HE WILL do so within his mind and believe enough in the imaginary to convince others of it's reality...

I appreciate the time and effort you've taken to post the above information. This is both informative and thoughtful of you. I do need to say clearly though, as a caring nurturing parent it would be ridiculous for me to believe that this is not a disorder of sorts.

Yes positive traits do accompany the negative but it is all the same a trying challenge to be dealt with and not a walk in the park. All the Love and discipline in the world cannot change my sons innate behavioral patterns.

I am aware that there are other mothers here dealing with these very issues as well, perhaps they too will speak up? It clearly is not a problem with just the school system. Though I agree all to often children are mis diagnosed and or mis represented as having a debilitating sort of disease, LOL!

It is a problem in a traditional classroom setting per say if the child is unable to sit still, pay attention, or follow basic instruction as this is disruptive to the rest of the classroom. If a child is exhibing these particular behaviors it seems to be most obvious that traditional school settings are not the place for said child. Home schooling is always an option... as are alternate school scheduals.

Example: A child in my son's kindergarten class is SOOoooooooo Hyperactive that he attends just an hour in the morning portion of class, then continues his studies in another classroom for the next hour, then goes home for the remainder of his schoolday. He attends just 3 days a week rather than 5. We are blessed to have a school and staff that will work with situations such as that childs. Prior to that arrangement the child was very disruptive as well as abusive towards other students. He was completely out of control because his mother chose to use no medications, or alternate relief methods. She has since started her son on melatonin after hearing of the the awesome results with my son. Without a single side effect her son is now able to sit still, pay attention, control his actions/reactions, and learn effectively for short 1-2 hour period of times. He no longer gets into trouble due to his previous abusiveness, nor does he frequent the principles office.

I'm aware of no other method that so truly addresses or repairs a hyperactive disorder including prescription medications. It seems in my own opininion and experiences that the hyperactivity is a direct cause of lacking the appropriate amount of melatonin in ones system. Some diet changes are effective in helping ones body create this essential bit in ones body via the sun... But utimately it's hit and mis to discover the exact combination on any given day. Not even taking into consideration all the preservatives provided nowadays in our regular diets which break down and ruin the way our systems should work.

I hope that something here has also been of educational value or at the very least of entertainment for you

------------------
Sendin' love your way,
"your friend in spirit"

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 1547
From: Sacramento,California,USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted January 17, 2008 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
I don't believe that AD/HD is a disorder though. I just believe that it's an alternative way of being,thinking,and learning. I feel the same about all neurodivergent conditions. Of course, being neurodivergent myself as Dyslexic,Dyspraxic,AD/HD, I can admit that I am biased toward this view. Many of my fellow neurodivergents don't see themselves as disordered. They see themselves as having differences. Sure some people need therapies like I had auditory therapy,speech therapy,phonics,and fine motor skills therapy for my Dyslexia and Dyspraxia. That doesn't necessarily mean that we have a disorder but we have our certain strengths and weaknesses like other people. A lot of autistics believe that too. That's why they started the neurodiversity movement and refer to themselves as neurodivergent and people who have normal neurological wiring as neurotypical. Neurodivergent now includes other conditions like Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,and other learning disabilities, as well as AD/HD.

I didn't know about melatonin helping with AD/HD. That's very interesting. I take cod liver oil daily for my Omega 3 fatty acid DHA intake to help with my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,AD/HD issues. I also going to start taking Meclizine because I was diagnosed as having cerebellar vestibular dysfunction by Dr. Harold N. Levinson which he believed was the root of learning disabilities and ADHD. I disagree though. I feel that cerebellar vestibular dysfunction is maybe root to some cases. I feel that my cerebellar vestibular dysfunction complicated my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,AD/HD.

I never said that ADHD was problem with just school. That's why I said that it's an alternative way of being,thinking,and learning. I do believe that schools need to be seriously reformed. There is mainly auditory sequential teaching which is a mismatch for visual spatial learners and/or kinesthetic,tactile learners. My problems with auditory processing,sequencing made it difficult for me to learn in a regular classroom,and I am a visual spatial learner. Just like my problems with reading made it difficult for me to learn from textbook material...especially if I have to read a lot of stuff in a short amount of time.

I think Waldorf Schools and Montessori Schools are good schools for people who have problems learning in mainsteam schools. Rightbrained students can really thrive and excel in them. They focus a lot on life skills,hands-on learning,creativity,and art. Most of all, they use multisensory teaching methods that will benefit all students.

Does he only have ADHD or does have other neurodivergent conditions. ADHD has considerable overlap with Dyslexia,Dyspraxia. Also...who in his family have ADHD? It's known to be hereditary. Almost everybody in my family have significant ADHD characteristics and some have some Dyslexic characteristics. Both my parents have Dyslexic,Dyspraxic,AD/HD traits. My father had speech,auditory processing problems,and coordination problems like me. My Auditory Dyslexia was diagnosed at 4 because of my unitelligible got me noticed in preschool. I had severe Dyslexia,Dyspraxia, and so I was in special education for a few years. My maternal Uncle Eddie is hyperactive,and so was my maternal grandfather. Even my stepgrandmother was hyperactive,and so she refused to have my uncle medicated for his hyperactivity when it was recommended. My uncle Eddie also had speech problems too,and had speech therapy in special education for that. His son,Joey is hyperactive too. My aunt Dominga told me that can identify with inattentive type ADHD and Dyslexia, and her oldest daughter was diagnosed ADHD at 7 years old because of her hyperactivity. Her youngest daughter can identify with the inattentive ADHD.

I was misdiagnosed as having schizoaffective bipolar disorder by psychiatrists because of my cluttering speech related to my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia without any psychological nor neurological testing. They only go by what they observed. They couldn't seem to comprehend that my thought processes are nonlinear due to my thinking mainly in pictures instead of words,and that's typical of Dyslexics and many other neurodivergents. There is considerable overlap between neurodivergent conditions and psychiatric disorders. There needs to be psychological and neurological testing done to tell them apart and prevent misdiagnosing and unnecessary medicating. That's one of the reasons why I am an advocate,activist.


Here is my testing, it explains how I am. http://astynaz.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album01

BTW........According to DSM-IV-TR.........They have the diagnoses, ADHD inattentive type(that means predominantly inattentive symptoms, you don't have to have hyperactivity), ADHD hyperactive type(that means predominantly hyperactive symptoms,you don't have to have inattention),and ADHD combined type.

I was diagnosed ADHD inattentive type at 32 years old.

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yourfriendinspirit
Moderator

Posts: 2136
From: California, USA
Registered: Oct 2006

posted January 17, 2008 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yourfriendinspirit     Edit/Delete Message
He does not yet exhibit any other challenges attention deficit, dyslexia, etc. Though he's still quite young to really know for sure. He is color blind also seems hereditary...

His father (my husband) as well as each of my husbands three siblings were classified/diagnosed AD/HD very young as well. They however were medicated with Ritalin (Yikes!) my husband has memories of being so out of control in the the 1st grade that he threw a chair at his teacher and was suspended from school at the principles request. His own severe challenges continues until he was maybe 9 or 10 years old and really got involved in sports then the symptoms seem to calm as he used rather focused the energy into sports. By age 13 years old he refused any more drugs and just coped without any relief at all.
Of his siblings only one has any overlapping conditions to speak of. His youngest brother had several different learning disabilities and oddly he's the one that actually continued Ritalin therapy the longest (until age 18 years)

Our eldest son (previous marriage) has no symptoms, our youngest daughter same union as our middle diagnosed son shows no symptoms either...

I will attest even my pregnancy was different with him! He was Hyperactive in the womb. I had extremely uncontrollable high blood pressure during my pregnancy with him. This created mini strokes during my pregnancy. He was actually not breathing at birth and did not take his first breath till nearly 4 minutes after his birth. As I previously said he sleep patterns were what really clued us in on his Hyperactivity. He went through some serious sleep disorder testing at the hospital over a three day period in order to diagnose his issues. They hooked him up to several dozen electroids, machines, and video taped him for these days 24 hours. (This in itself was a flippin' nightmare!) The fear was perhaps extreme apnea during sleep cycles (he did have mild apnea) he outgrew this by age 4 years though, whew!

I too like the idea of alternate schools. I do believe our schools need serious reform as well I'd like to believe that Hyperactivity is not a disorder, I'm just not there yet, LOL! I will go as far to say that I believe it is deficiency of needed stuff in our systems. Some people produce enough of it and others don't. Suppliments seem to help.

Medicine only deals with the symptoms not the causing or underlying problem. It may even create new issues or overlapping so called "disorders".

------------------
Sendin' love your way,
"your friend in spirit"

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 6095
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted January 18, 2008 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
Hi YFIS -- you rang??

My 11yo son was diagnosed ADHD just before kindergarten, as he was becoming more and more out of control at the daycare lady’s house, and endangering the other kids. His impulse-control was nil then. One afternoon when I picked him up I parked my car across the street and went to get him. Was saying my goodbyes to the daycare lady when I see him dash down her driveway and straight across the street to the car without looking. One car had to hit his brakes pretty hard….. I screamed so loud that it felt like the blood vessels in my eyeballs popped!!!

I’m a single mom, fulltime job, home-schooling is out of the question for me.
Anyway, after that, we made the rounds (his pediatrician referred us to neurologists, allergists, etc) and he even had an MRI because he had chronic sinusitis – seems his sinuses were not growing as quickly as the rest of him – but age has taken care of that issue.

He entered kindergarten. After being wildly disruptive the first few weeks, the school district asked me to try medication. I chose this district to buy a house in as it was rated #2 in the state for student services as well as excellent educational opportunities. So with a heavy heart, we started him on Adderall. I was not willing to try Ritalin. The neurologist said that my boy’s brain is wired a little differently, which is why the amphetamine calms him down and helps him focus – the opposite of what it does to “normal” brain wiring.

My little guy is an Aries Sun/Mercury/Mars with Leo Moon and Asc, so we have a little fireball here anyway, even without the brain wiring issues :-D

The change in him after medication was amazing. He could sit and focus on the things he wanted to do, instead of tossing the Lego Bionicle aside because he couldn’t get it built in less than 5 minutes. Now he creates the most fabulous, meticulously-designed structures!!! In his case, meds have given him his life back. Yes, he’s still scattered and disorganized, but he’s gotten SOOOOOOO much better in the last 6 years. His schools have been awesome. He’s had an IEP every year, with a special needs classroom session every day. At the end of 5th grade, his counselor/spec ed teacher wanted us to go interview the special ed dept at another school instead of the one he would normally “feed” to, so I did last summer before he began 6th grade. He himself was in favor of a new school, so he could get away from the “bullies” who picked on him merely to watch him explode, and the kids who avoided him because they’d been witnesses to his meltdowns over the years. The school district would bus him (it picks him up and drops him off right at our driveway :-)) ) and had classes and paras all lined up, so we enrolled. It was the best thing that we could have done!!! School support is SO crucial. I never thought that I would see the day when my boy could concentrate enough to learn music and play trumpet in the school band, take karate classes without being too disruptive, and now he’s involved in piano lessons.

I think that as my boy matures, he won’t need the meds anymore. He’s learning self-control and coping techniques, and believe me school still gives him plenty of opportunities to NEED coping techniques ;-D ;-D
He LOVES Science!! And right now they’re doing cross-country skiing in P.E. He gets so excited about all the new and fascinating things he’s doing that he couldn’t get to sleep, and he was often awake until I went to bed (11 or so). The pediatrician said to try melatonin, so we did and it has been a real boon!! I’ve taken it too, for those times when I get stressed out about all the issues I’ve had with my mother and her care over the past two years.

I’m ambivalent about “ADHD is not a disorder that needs to be medicated.” I don’t like Adderall and of course I worry about what this long-term use is doing to my little fella’s body. But he has a driving desire to “belong” and I thought mainstreaming him (with meds) was a better choice for him than the special schools where we have the entire Autistic Spectrum of disorders represented. I’ve seen kids with more difficulty than my son, he’s probably in the middle of the “disability” scale for ADHD. I can see him doing some very creative things when he’s grown. Lotta 9th house action in his chart (you have it, Glaucus) – he has the potential to be very special. And his school is with him all the way – he gets the adademic help he needs. I’m very pleased with his progress. He is one COOL kid!! I'm proud that this special little spirit chose me to give him his start in this life.....

<3 ~ Zala

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 6095
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted January 18, 2008 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
YFIS ~
quote:
I too like the idea of alternate schools. I do believe our schools need serious reform as well I'd like to believe that Hyperactivity is not a disorder, I'm just not there yet, LOL! I will go as far to say that I believe it is deficiency of needed stuff in our systems. Some people produce enough of it and others don't. Suppliments seem to help.
I agree on the part about schools needing serious reform -- but there are some that are definitely head'n'shoulders above the norm -- we are lucky to be in one such.

Re: the 'deficiency of needed stuff' in their systems, maybe.....
Supplements DEFINITELY help. I read that Fish Oil (the Omegas -- 3,6,9) helps calm these kids, so I checked with his pediatrician and she said Fine. CJ has been taking fish oil and flaxseed oil caps every morning for a couple years now -- I think it has made a big difference in his temper.....
Also note that white SUGAR should be OFF LIMITS for these kids. It was hard in the beginning weaning my boy off the highly-processed and sugar-loaded Reese's Puffs and Cookie Crisp for breakfast. But he's developed a taste for waffles and oatmeal, and I buy the Koala Crisp and Panda Puffs when he gets a yen for dry cereal.

I really think that along with possible hereditary factors, environmental toxins are what does in these kids I think their systems are more sensitive than the norm to pollutants. For instance, I don't think entire city water systems should be fluoridated. I think it's an outrage that I should have to spend $400 to get a machine that takes the fluoride OUT of the water!! The way I heard it, fluoride is a common byproduct of chemical processing and they found a fine way to get rid of it by selling it to the cities with fluoridation programs

My boy was still in the age group that got thimerosol (and possibly mercury) in vaccines as a baby. What else can explain the explosion of diagnosed cases of Autistic Spectrum kids?? There were maybe one or two in my whole school when I was growing up, now it's above 10%. My own pediatrician's daughter is ADHD. We are allowing Big Business and Big Pharma to poison our children, which costs us as a society even more to get these kids the special attention they need.....

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yourfriendinspirit
Moderator

Posts: 2136
From: California, USA
Registered: Oct 2006

posted January 18, 2008 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yourfriendinspirit     Edit/Delete Message
Heartwarming

OHhh, look how handsome he is...

Zala it's obvious you take pride in raising this little guy and also appreciate and recognize the blessings of such. I'll bet you are a cool momma too!

I wonder have you ever tried to wean him from the prescription meds using only melatonin, has this thought ever crossed your mind?

I ask because I know you worry about long term effects and I know from personal experience with my own son that it is enough for him. I would love to see others with more options and choices. Provided they work in their own cases too of course!

I read where you said he uses 1 mg of melatonin. My son who weighs 46 lbs. uses 3 mg and he's just 5 years old. I'm telling you seriously you could up his melatonin dose without any side effects... (if necessary- in place of the prescriptions) to compensate.

Obviously this is a personal choice and will require time and energy if it's even a desire for you.

Thank you, for sharing your personal story. I feel like parents of hyperactive children need to network and be provided more sources and support.

Hey, oh yah! Another question, if you will:
Have you noticed the funny affect that coffee has on hyperactive children? Strange...
-Totally mystifies me, LOL!

*Edited to add:
(Just saw your 2nd post)
Yes, sugar is a BIG no no with my son as well.... Seem's to have the same effect as SPEED!
Yikes...

Also white flour products which turn to sugar.

I used to keep a journal of all the crazy things he did. It was my way of releasing the stress from his wild behaviors. Now looking back through it I can laugh. Of course while experiencing them it was NOT funny.
I'll bet you have those stories too...

Example:
My son once hooked up the water hose full blast into the gas dryer and managed to turn it on too. Luckily no one was hurt but the intention was he was making a hot tub for his spiderman figurine...
My dryer had to be replaced of course, as well as all the surrounding flooring, etc.


------------------
Sendin' love your way,
"your friend in spirit"

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 6095
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted January 18, 2008 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
Hi YFIS

Thanks for sharing your experiences
I hadn't thought of using melatonin during the day.....
I guess I could explore it. My issue is that I don't see CJ's school behavior very often (have not visited a class yet at his new school) -- and his home behavior is very different. It's like he comes home and falls apart, just drops, from holding it together all day..... yet if he had an exciting day, then he can't sleep.

He doesn't like the feeling of mind-altering substances (I hope it stays this way!!! ) He had to have oral surgery a couple months ago and when they put the nitrous oxide mask on him he just freaked -- "Mom I can't feel my toes!!!!!" While his mother, child of the 60's/70's just smiled and said, Lie back and let it relax you. So getting back to the melatonin, I've encouraged him to take more than one pill but he's been reluctant. Perhaps on Spring Break we'll try a week without the Adderall. But at home he's different -- he feels safe, he's (relatively) calm. At school he's wound up like a spring with the pressure and demands -- and the pressure of that Arien desire to be the best along with that Leonine pressure to give a good performance ties him up in knots. When he doesn't have his meds in that environment, he's out of control

Thanks for your suggestion, hon

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Glaucus
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Posts: 1547
From: Sacramento,California,USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted January 19, 2008 03:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

Omega 3 fatty acid DHA deficiencies have been found connected to Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,AD/HD.

Omega 3 fatty acid defiencies aren't necessarily the causes of those neurodivergent conditions. It could be resul t of how we are wired..especially if our brains work too hard which would lead to burning those fatty acids at higher rate than neurotypicals.

I take fish oil or cod liver oil to get my Omega 3 fatty acids intake to help with my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,AD/HD.


My veteran affairs psychiatrist recommended a little bit of Ritalin,but I declined.

I just don't think that it's a disorder that needs to be medicated. If DRD4 7R is an advantageous gene,and its in half of AD/HDers, then why should AD/HDers need to be medicated. To me, it's more of a personality style like being an Highly sensitive person or myers brigg personality style. I am an INFP myself,and those are said to be like 3 percent of the population, and so those people might be seen as disordered because they are minority of the population.

homosexuality was seen as a mental disorder and was in the DSM,and it's not seen as DSM.
Of course,there is a lot of people who still view homosexuals as having a mental disorder but they can't diagnosed as having one.


I like the term, Attention Divergent Hyperactivity Diversity. That's a term that I proposed for ADHD.

There are lot of autistics who don't see themselves as disordered either,and they believe in neurodiversity.


I just feel that psychiatric disorders are based on biases of society.

Take schizotypal personality disorder for instance.....belief in paranormal or having paranormal abilities is listed as symptom of that disorder.

Introverts are often frowned upon.

Even Elaine Aron,Phd even wrote about high sensitivity is often seen in a negative way.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 1547
From: Sacramento,California,USA
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posted January 21, 2008 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
ADHD: Gifted & Creative

I was in India in 1993 to help manage a community for orphans and blind children on behalf of a German charity. During the monsoon season, the week of the big Hyderabad earthquake, I took an all-day train ride almost all the way across the subcontinent (from Bombay through Hyderabad to Rajamundri) to visit an obscure town near the Bay of Bengal. In the train compartment with me were several Indian businessmen and a physician, and we had plenty of time to talk as the countryside flew by from sunrise to sunset.

Curious about how they viewed our children diagnosed as having Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), I asked, "Are you familiar with those types of people who seem to crave stimulation, yet have a hard time staying with any one focus for a period of time? They may hop from career to career and sometimes even from relationship to relationship, never seeming to settle into one job or into a life with one person — but the whole time they remain incredibly creative and inventive."

"Ah, we know this type well," one of the men said, the other three nodding in agreement.

"What do you call this personality type?" I asked.

"Very holy," he said. "These are old souls, near the end of their karmic cycle."

Again, the other three nodded agreement, perhaps a bit more vigorously in response to my startled look.

"Old souls?" I questioned, thinking that a very odd description for those whom American psychiatrists have diagnosed as having a particular disorder.

"Yes," the physician said. "In our religion, we believe that the purpose of reincarnation is to eventually free oneself from worldly entanglement and desire. In each lifetime we experience certain lessons, until finally we are free of this earth and can merge into the oneness of God. When a soul is very close to the end of those thousands of incarnations, he must take a few lifetimes to do many, many things — to clean up the little threads left over from his previous lives."

"This is a man very close to becoming enlightened," a businessman added. "We have great respect for such individuals, although their lives may be difficult."

Another businessman raised a finger and interjected. "But it is through the difficulties of such lives that the soul is purified."

The others nodded agreement.

"In America they consider this behavior indicative of a psychiatric disorder," I said.

All three looked startled, then laughed.

"In America you consider our most holy men, our yogis and swamis, to be crazy people as well," said the physician with a touch of sadness in his voice. "So it is with different cultures. We live in different worlds."

We in our Western world have such "holy" and nearly enlightened people among us and we say they must be mad. But as we're about to see, they may instead be our most creative individuals, our most extraordinary thinkers, our most brilliant inventors and pioneers. The children among us whom our teachers and psychiatrists say are "disordered" may, in fact, carry a set of abilities — a skill set — that was necessary for the survival of humanity in the past, that has created much of what we treasure in our present "quality of life," and that will be critical to the survival of the human race in the future.

There is immense power in how we choose to view what's happening around us, and this is terrifically important when we consider how we can best know our children and provide them with the upbringing they need — an upbringing that will lead them to become healthy, happy, functioning adults. The premise of this book is that children who have what we have come to know as ADHD are important and vital gifts to our society and culture, and, in the largest sense, can be an extraordinary gift to the world. In addition, for those adults who have been similarly diagnosed or defined, this book offers a new way of understanding themselves and their relationship to the world — a way that brings insight, empowerment, and success.
GENETICS AND DIFFERENCES

The long history of the human race has conferred on us — some of us more than others — a set of predilections, temperaments, and abilities carried through the medium of our genetic makeup. These skills were ideally suited to life in the ever-changing world of our ancient ancestors and, we have now discovered, are also ideally suited to the quickly-changing modern world of cyberspace and widespread ecological and political crises that require rapid response. I will call this genetic gift the Edison gene, after Thomas Edison, who brought us electric lights and phonographs and movies and — literally ten thousand other inventions. He is the model for the sort of impact a well-nurtured child carrying this gene can have on the world.

While I'm principally referring to the DRD4 gene, the science of genetics is embryonic, with new discoveries being made every day. No doubt, some time soon we'll have a better, more complete list of specific genes that make up what Dave deBronkart first called the "Edison trait" back in 1992 and Lucy Jo Palladino expanded on considerably in 1997 in her wonderful book The Edison Trait. For the moment, however, I'll use the useful shorthand of the "Edison gene."

When Edison's schoolteacher threw him out of school in the third grade for being inattentive, fidgety, and "slow," his mother, Nancy Edison, the well-educated daughter of a Presbyterian minister, was deeply offended by the schoolmaster's characterization of her son. As a result, she pulled him out of the school. She became his teacher from then until the day he went off on his own to work for the railroads (inventing, in his first months of employment, a railroad timing and signaling device that was used for nearly a century). She believed in him and wasn't going to let the school thrash out of him his own belief in himself. As a result of that one mother's efforts, the world is a very different place.

"Ah, but we mustn't coddle these children!" some say. Consider this: Edison invented, at age sixteen, that device that revolutionized telegraph communication. It started him on a lifelong career of invention that led to the light bulb, the microphone, the motion picture, and the electrification of our cities. Would the world have been better off if he'd been disciplined into "behaving himself"?

The children and adults who carry this gene have and offer multiple gifts, both individually and as members of our society. Sometimes these gifts are unrecognized, misinterpreted, or even punished, and as a result, these exceptional children end up vilified, drugged, or shunted into Special Education. The result is that they often become reactive: sullen, angry, defiant, oppositional, and, in extreme cases, suicidal. Some Edison-gene adults face the same issues, carrying the wounds of school with them into adulthood, often finding themselves in jobs better adapted to stability than creativity.

What exactly defines those bearing this genetic makeup? Edison-gene children and adults are by nature:

* Enthusiastic
* Creative
* Disorganized
* Non-linear in their thinking (they leap to new conclusions or observations)
* Innovative
* Easily distracted (or, to put it differently, easily attracted to new stimuli)
* Capable of extraordinary hyperfocus
* Understanding of what it means to be an "outsider"
* Determined
* Eccentric
* Easily bored
* Impulsive
* Entrepreneurial
* Energetic

All of these qualities lead them to be natural:

* Explorers
* Inventors
* Discoverers
* Leaders

Those carrying this gene, however, often find themselves in environments where they're coerced, threatened, or shoehorned into a classroom or job that doesn't fit. When Edison-gene children aren't recognized for their gifts but instead are told that they're disordered, broken, or failures, a great emotional and spiritual wounding occurs. This wounding can bring about all sorts of problems for children, for the adults they grow into, and for our society.

I and many scientists, educators, physicians, and therapists believe that when these unique children don't succeed in public schools, it's often because of a disconnect between them — their brains are wired to make them brilliant inventors and entrepreneurs — and our schools, which are set up for children whose brains are wired to make them good workers in the structured environments of a factory or office cubicle.

Those children whom we call "normal" are more methodical, careful, and detail-oriented and are less likely to take risks. They often find it hard to keep it together and perform in the rapid-fire world of the Edison-gene child: They don't do as well with video games, couldn't handle working in an emergency room or on an ambulance crew, and seldom find themselves among the ranks of entrepreneurs, explorers, and salespeople.

Similarly, Edison-gene children have their own strengths and limitations: They don't do well in the school environment of repetition, auditory learning, and rote memorization that has been set up for "normal" kids, and they don't make very good bookkeepers or managers. Genetically these kids are pioneers, explorers, and adventurers. They make great innovators, and they find high levels of success in any field where there's a lot of change, constant challenge, and lots of activity. Such personalities are common among emergency room physicians, surgeons, fighter pilots, and salespeople.

There are many areas in which such people can excel — especially when they make it through childhood with their belief in themselves intact.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=374&Itemid=85

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 1547
From: Sacramento,California,USA
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posted January 25, 2008 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
ADHD: Negative traits or unrecognized talents?

By Eve Solis, MA, MFTI

Living with ADHD is no picnic--not if you are the parent of a child
with ADHD, not if you have lived with it yourself, and also not if you
are the non-ADHD partner of an ADHD-er. Anyone with this disorder has
the traumatic experience of having been pinned with negative labels
ranging from annoying and hard-to-live-with, lazy and unmotivated,
brash and intrusive, unreliable and forgetful, stubborn and difficult,
too intense and scatterbrained. Over time, you may have internalized
these invalidating labels to the point where you see yourself in these
ways--leaving you feeling ever more hopeless and defeated as you
struggle endlessly to access the enormous potential you sense within
you.

ADHD-ers have difficulties in school, in their jobs, in their
interpersonal relationships even though their "high energy" style may
initially attract people. However, the excitement soon wears thin,
giving way to disillusionment and avoidance because of "low follow-
through" tendencies. The result often is a series of relationships
that are frequently superficial and ultimately dissatisfying. ADHD-
ers, both children and adults, often have many acquaintances, yet few
close, long-time friends and confidants because their weak memory
skills, chronic disorganization, and distractibility quickly undermine
the goodwill of prospective friends and partners.

Does that mean that receiving a diagnosis of ADHD at any age is an
economic and social "death sentence"? That ADHD-ers are ultimately
unable to learn consistent, appropriate life and work skills? That
they will always struggle and not ever lead contented, stimulating,
and successful lives? No, absolutely not! Having ADHD is not an excuse
for anyone to claim life-long disability, use it as a defense for
unethical/illegal behavior, to expect others to compensate for one's
irresponsible behavior, or to simply float through life in a haphazard
manner. Individuals with ADHD need to work much harder at learning
good organizational and interpersonal skills--just as a blind person
needs to learn Braille and other crucial living skills to lead a
successful life.

At the same time, many of the prominent characteristics of ADHD, which
tend to be viewed as weaknesses by society at large, can also be
perceived as personal strengths. Following are a few examples of how
traits that may drive partners and parents of ADHD-ers up the wall at
times are also qualities we all wish we possessed and could nurture
with the help of well-meaning, positive and consistent feedback and
support from the people in our lives.

Distractibility/Inattentiveness = Creativity

The daydreaming, distractibility, and inattentiveness which are key
features in ADHD are all closely related to the individual's
creativity. These periods of "absentmindedness" are not simply mental
black-outs, but rather filled with a myriad of external and internal
stimuli: sounds, sensations, thoughts, smells, sights, or memories.
The ADHD-ers mind happily hopscotches back and forth between internal
and external sensory data to create intricate webs of unusual,
exciting, novel connections. Maybe innovative, new engineering designs
or strange eco-solutions to save the planet, imaginary trips to far-
off lands, and extravagant plans to conquer the world or terminal
diseases are all products of an active ADHD brain. Many ADHD-ers can
conceive of and juggle multiple tasks as long as they have a good
support network to carry out the delegated tasks. Might such artists
as Salvador Dali and Picasso, Da Vinci or Van Gogh, Beethoven or
Einstein, Jules Verne or Louis Pasteur be diagnosed with ADHD today?
What about Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs who hire thousands
of employees to make their crazy, imaginative dreams become reality?

Failure to pay attention to details/Making Careless Mistakes =
Divergent Thinking

Many ADHD-ers experience significant difficulties with multiple-choice
test taking and retrieving rote memorization information. Yet, many do
well with open-ended test questions, free recall and brainstorming
tasks as well as creative writing projects (with some editing help, of
course). This type of mental processing is called "divergent thinking"
which allows the individual to generate multiple, creative problem-
solving solutions that non-ADHD people may fail to consider. These
individuals may not do well as accountants, yet shine in activities
and careers that emphasize unconventional problem-solving and
innovation such as software programmers or designers. The career
possibilities are endless.

Hyperactivity
= high energy, tirelessness, and zest for life

Many individuals with ADHD are outgoing, friendly, gregarious and
exhibit an infectious enthusiasm that can provide the spark and spirit
for a party or family gathering, a crucial company project, or to
gather support and funding for important research. With guidance and
support to provide structure and harness the intensity, hyperactivity
can be the dynamo driving the successful athlete, scientist, business
executive, etc. One might wonder if superb athletes like Carl Lewis or
Magic Johnson and manic comedians like Julia Dreyfus, Robin Williams,
or Jim Carrey could possibly show some ADHD traits?

Impulsivity, undiplomatic, bluntness = spontaneity and sincerity/
honesty/ frankness

Yes, ADHD-ers often "leap before looking and don't stop before it's
done"--and often too late to undo the damage they inadvertently and
unintentionally inflicted. Their direct, heart-felt bluntness can
sting those of us who prefer indirect, politically and socially
correct manners and communication styles. AND, they also can be
valuable catalysts for action to those of us who complacently or
timidly wait for someone else to get their hands dirty. Their
openness, sarcasm and biting satire can often hold a mirror to our
apathy, smugness or jadedness. Would John Lennon, Winston Churchill or
George Burns, Mike Wallace, Joan Rivers or Whoopi Goldberg be
interested in taking an informal ADHD screening?

Excessive talking, blurting out answers, disruptive =
expressiveness, enthusiasm, challenging

Without trying to minimize the frustration we feel when there is
always one member of an audience or team who footnotes every comment
by others, insists on speaking out of turn, or doesn't know when to
stop the monologue--there is a positive side to such behavior! Many
ADHD-ers have brilliant brains and often are three steps ahead of
anyone else in their thinking process. If they were to submit to
social convention and not interrupt others when their ingenuity erupts
they would forget the brilliant idea and thus deprive the world of
potentially life-saving truths or simply enjoyable chatter.
Furthermore, recent research on the concept of "eminence" showed that
geniuses and highly intelligent people rarely have congenial, jovial,
or humble personalities! Let's ponder Jay Leno, Napoleon, Jack
Nicholson, Nostradamus, Rosie O'Donnell, Tom Smothers, or Socrates for
possible ADHD candidates, shall we?

Stubborn, headstrong, brash = courage, determination and persistence

Those of us who live with ADHD or with someone who has ADHD know very
well that sometimes, it almost takes a set of "jaws of life" to pry an
ADHD-er away from a stimulating video game, the constant visual/
auditory onslaught of a TV, their latest obsession with a hobby or
project. Without such wholehearted, singular ability to focus and tune
out the rest of the world many historical, medical, and scientific
breakthroughs would have never happened! Think of Alexander Graham
Bell, Thomas Edison, Louis Pasteur or Paul Ehrlich (who discovered the
first compound to arrest syphilis), Einstein, Marie Curie, and
Margaret Thatcher.

Melodramatic, emotional, extravagant = sensitivity and generosity

Would gifted actors and entertainers be as fascinating and mesmerizing
if they didn't possess a highly developed degree of sensitivity that
allows them to probe the breadth of their emotional scale to give us
unforgettable moments with their artistry? Why do we enjoy Shaw's
"Pygmalion" if not for it's emotional drama and extravagant, fairy
tale type of story? Would Jack Nicholson, Judy Dench or Anthony
Hopkins be as enigmatic and brilliant without their intense ability
for melodrama? What would Cher's extravagance be without the
playfulness and spontaneity so typical of ADHD-ers?

Irresponsibility = tolerance and forgiveness

Living with an ADHD-er confronts us daily with their frustrating
tendency not to follow through on tasks or commitments, to forget
important deadlines and anniversaries, to lose the mail or paycheck,
letting the dog eat the homework, and so on. On the bright side, many
of them are probably acutely aware of human foibles--very likely
because they get more negative labels pinned on their lapels that most
other people! Their struggle to maintain some sense of self-esteem and
self-efficacy may well sensitize them to other people's weaknesses
because it is in recognizing one's own struggle in the other human
being that we learn forgiveness and tolerance! When we walk a mile in
someone else's shoes we become compassionate fellow travelers in
life's journey!

Fussy, picky = choosing carefully, discriminating

No, ADHD-ers are NOT fussy eaters, overly sensitive wool-haters and
picky window-shoppers! They have exquisite, self-defined style, a
discriminating palate, delicate skin that picks up on minute sensory
stimuli. And, they choose merchandise carefully and agonize over
choices because, after all, quality is important! After all, they have
heard it demanded by others about themselves forever! They might as
well begin the process of quality improvement in the things that
really matter to them: their food, their unique, dramatic and creative
style of mixing and matching their clothes or decorating.

Lack of self-confidence = humility

Our culture places great value and emphasis on building self-esteem
and self-confidence and often perceives humility and authentic self-
restraint as negative attributes. Clearly, feelings of shame and
inadequacy need to be remedied with the help of encouragement and
learning good interpersonal and time management skills to prevent
further emotional pain. However, healthy self-esteem involves not only
a strong I-can attitude, feeling good about one's person as well as
feeling loved and cared for by others. It entails recognizing one's
strengths and potential AS WELL AS one's challenges and limitations.
Not all of us will be brain surgeons or rocket scientists, and a
realistic appraisal of our abilities is not evidence of low self-
esteem, but rather an authentic, kind affirmation that we are unique,
special, and capable of living up to our innate potential with the
talents we have.

So, to all the ADHD-ers and those living with them: Work hard and play
hard--lighten up. It takes everyone's talents and foibles to make life
an excellent, stimulating adventure!

Evelyn Solis, M.A., MFT Intern IMF33089

(c) Copyright 1999 through 2003 Counseling for Modern Life. Any article
may be reprinted, but must be printed in its entirety, without
alteration, and must show the name and contact information for the
author, in order to comply with copyright laws. http://www.modernlife.org/all_staples1999to2000/1999Months/NovemberIs...

As you see, ADHD can be a gift and not just a disorder. I mean it has
strengths and not just weaknesses which too many people focus, and so
they get labeled as having a disorder and put on medications. That's
why I don't believe that my fellow ADHDers should be on medications.
I really hate that a lot of them are even on antipsychotics like
Risperdal. Even alternative health practitioners think that ADHD is a
disorder that needs to be fixed,and come up with alternative healing
theapies to heal ADHD.

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26taurus
Knowflake

Posts: 12737
From: *
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posted January 26, 2008 12:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Glaucus. (:

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26taurus
Knowflake

Posts: 12737
From: *
Registered: Jun 2004

posted January 26, 2008 12:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 26taurus     Edit/Delete Message
(Mercury conjunct Chiron in the Third house btw [in Taurus])

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 6095
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted February 02, 2008 05:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
Here's a really good *rant* about the connection between vaccines and Autistic Spectrum disorders:
http://www.naturalnews.com/022574.html

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 2643
From: Albion
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 03, 2008 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
I just scored 88 on this test:
http://psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 1547
From: Sacramento,California,USA
Registered: Jul 2006

posted February 04, 2008 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
I checked out that test. a lot of those things can be things that people with learning disabilities and/or people with mental illness can relate to.

so I didn't bother to take it.

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