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Author Topic:   "killer aspects" in synastry
mir
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posted July 21, 2014 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(just a progressed pause here)


I just got CosmiTec's Love letter, which I found pretty interesting.


Here we go;

KILLER ASPECTS IN SYNASTRY


In his groundbreaking astrological research about separations and divorces, Harald Hoffmann, a retired engineer and astrologer, found some inter-aspects between two people to be the culprit of the separation/divorce.

His statistical research is based on the birth information of 6,143 couples and 53,635 Swiss couples of which 48,262 couples were divorced.

He wrote his own statistical software program because no existing software had the features he wanted.

In his statistical research he uses the Chi-square and Fishertest and made a difference between the gender of the persons involved.

According to his findings, some aspects in synastry (in the chart comparison between two people) were found statistically often between separated/divorced people (in comparison with a control group).

On our web site, we listed the 20 most important inter-aspects which Harald Hoffmann named 'killer aspects.'

His findings confirm what ancient astrologers stated long ago and what we have found also: in astrological research there is a difference to be made between male and female charts!

Because insufficient research is done among gay/lesbian couples, it's unknown how to apply the research results in homosexual relationships.

What's even more, in our opinion we might have to go a step further because ancient astrologers also made a distinction between day and night births.

It's very likely, we will have to make this distinction too (female night births, female day births, male night births and male day births), making astrological research yet more time-consuming (but possibly -- and even likely -- more rewarding!).

Unfortunately, no astrological software program with extensive research capabilities is able to make this distinction so that we should not expect any research results soon making such distinctions...

Anyway, Harald Hoffmann's investigations show some interesting results that he cannot fully explain himself but for which he tried to find an explanation nonetheless.

The Venus-Mars inter-aspects in the chart comparison are said to be very sexual -- which is confirmed over and again.

However, sex is not 'love.'

Likewise, attraction is not 'love.'

Following his findings, the male Venus semi-square the female Mars (orb 2°) is a very significant inter-aspect that may bring divorce/separation.

Beware though: you can't judge the cover of the puzzle by just taking one single piece in isolation so that a couple needs different 'killer aspects' to separate/divorce.

The mentioned exact Venus-Mars aspect is a very sexual one, denoting the couple is blinded by sex.

Differences in behavior, belief system, emotional needs, etc. are thus covered behind the mask of sex.

Ultimately, this cannot last because physical urges are cyclic and cannot be forced.

When the sexual urges diminish, the emotional and other differences come to the foreground, resulting in clashes and separation/divorce.

Another 'killer aspect' is male Mars conjunct female MC (orb 6°).

In this case, the male is too critical, too assertive (aggressive) towards the female projects (and career interests) resulting in disputes and quarrels.

Mars inter-aspects can be forceful, brutal and lacking consideration.

The listed Saturn inter-aspects suggest a heavy atmosphere, no joy, too much obligations and duties, too much responsibilities so that one of the partners feels limited, repressed and cannot unfold.

This may result in the separation.

The male Ascendant conjunct female North Node of the Moon (orb 5°) may denote that there are too much contacts, meetings and encounters outside of the union resulting in jealousy (for example which may trigger a separation).

The Ascendant-North Node inter-aspects often make for a popular and sociable combination, attracting other people into the world of the couple.

However, socializing often results in attractions that trigger jealousy and/or so-called 'inappropriate feelings.'

The listed Pluto inter-aspects almost always are related to unhealthy (and intense) power struggles.

Often, one of the partners will never give in and clings to the own convictions (rather for ill).

All in all, his findings are very interesting indeed but one can wonder if the data set he used is large enough to build a theory on.

Also, in his research results, he has listed some natal aspects in male and female charts that on the one hand enhance long-term unions and on the other side prohibit a lasting union.

Our practice has shown that some natal aspects he lists as 'relationship enhancing' are rather blocking a lasting union.

Perhaps his data set is not large enough or it's a coincidence our findings differ.

Food for thought anyway!
http://www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/CosmiTecs_Love_L etter-love-letter-116.html

*****


HERE are the 20 most important "killer aspects" (from another page on CosmiTec);


1.Male Venus semi-square female Mars (orb 2°)
2.Male Moon semi-sextile female MC (orb 2°)
3.Male Mars conjunct female MC (orb 6°)
4.Male MC sesquiquadrate female Saturn (orb 2°)
5.Male Ascendant opposite female Saturn (orb 5°)
6.Male Saturn conjunct female Sun (orb 6°)
7.Male Sun inconjunct female Mars (orb 2°)
8.Male Sun opposite female Mercury (orb 5°)
9.Male Sun opposite female Uranus (orb 5°)
10.Male Mercury sesquiquadrate female Uranus (orb 2°)
11.Male Venus semi-sextile female Moon (orb 2°)
12.Male Ascendant conjunct female North Node of the Moon (orb 5°)
13.Male Venus conjunct female North Node of the Moon (orb 6°)
14.Male Ascendant conjunct female Pluto (orb 6°)
15.Male Pluto sesquiquadrate female MC (orb 2°)
16.Male MC semi-sextile female Sun (orb 2°)
17.Male Pluto conjunct or square female Black Moon (mean apogee of the Moon)
18.Male Black Moon (Lilith, the mean apogee of the Moon) sextile female Black Moon (orb 2°)
19.Male Uranus sesquiquadrate or inconjunct female Black Moon (orb 2°)
20.Male Black Moon semi-sextile or semi-square female Chiron (orb 2°)
http://www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/worst-aspects-in-synastry.ht ml

OK, so what is YOUR experience with the above listed Killer ones?

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 21, 2014 11:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting, Mir. In fact, many of them are rather classic, don't you think?

Interesting idea with that "popularity" concept, ASC conjunct NN.

We should discuss all aspects, one by one, it's an interesting topic.

I'm not sure about semi-sextiles though, but who knows? I definitely agree 4th harmonics show "cyclic" things and "events".

I didn't get it about Swiss couples vs. couples, what was that? and the difference between night birth and day birth?

I've experienced Sun opp Uranus and male Mars on my MC, I'll explain them.


Do you have a link about those natal aspects too? the ones pointing to long-term vs. not inclined to long-term in the natal? Thanks!


EDIT: to be honest, I have to check semisquares sesquisquqares and semisextiles in my previous relationships to see if they are there.
------------------

I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 21, 2014 11:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shall I understand from this list that the most common aspect he found in separated couples is her Mars semisquare his Venus and that's why it's number 1? and then the rest are listed by statistical appearance?

I'm crazy about statistics. It would have been nice if they had specified the rate he had found. Perhaps he found only ten. Just kidding. I assume the man did a thorough statistical analysis.

------------------

I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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amelia28
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posted July 21, 2014 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He definitely used a representative sample:

"His statistical research is based on the birth information of 6,143 couples and 53,635 Swiss couples of which 48,262 couples were divorced."

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mir
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posted July 21, 2014 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
We should discuss all aspects, one by one, it's an interesting topic.

Indeed!

quote:
I didn't get it about Swiss couples vs. couples, what was that? and the difference between night birth and day birth?

Great question! I was wondering that myself..
anyone an idea?? Otherwise I google.. and I'm also verry interested in those night/day births and its effect!

quote:
Do you have a link about those natal aspects too? the ones pointing to long-term vs. not inclined to long-term in the natal? Thanks!

I wish I had! LOL.

quote:
Shall I understand from this list that the most common aspect he found in separated couples is her Mars semisquare his Venus and that's why it's number 1?

I was thinking about that also... great question again!

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2014 12:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ah yes, received it today, too.

To be honest though I was crazy for them some years ago, it all just seems so arbitrary and isolated to me nowadays. Plus it never had worked with my examples either (Solar Return and marriage for example)

On the other hand Mr Sag and me do not have one of the killer aspects mentioned

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2014 12:30 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mir,


"I didn't get it about Swiss couples vs. couples, what was that?"
I think he used couples living in Switzerland.
I think it is a lopsided research though, as he has used so many more examples of divorced couples than those who stayed married.


" and the difference between night birth and day birth?"
If your Sun is below horizon, you are a night birth, if it is in the upper hemisphere, you are a day-birth (meaning the sun had already risen).

This is to some astrologers important, as there are different formulas for the Part of Fortune (and some other arabic parts), depending if you are a night or day birth. Though some astrologers do not make this difference.
Even astro.com has the option btw, for calculating POF.

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amelia28
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posted July 21, 2014 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:

I think it is a lopsided research though, as he has used so many more examples of divorced couples than those who stayed married.


Very good point.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 21, 2014 12:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by amelia28:
He definitely used a representative sample:

"His statistical research is based on the birth information of 6,143 couples and 53,635 Swiss couples of which 48,262 couples were divorced."


The rate between divorced/not divorced seems huge, however. Almost all of them are divorced, so no witness group for comparison, in fact.

------------------

I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 21, 2014 12:56 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:

I think it is a lopsided research though, as he has used so many more examples of divorced couples than those who stayed married.



Exactly!

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 21, 2014 12:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So there's no way for him (and us) to know if the still-married couples have the same rate of Venus/Mars semisquare as the divorced sample

I love statistics in astrology though

------------------

I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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mir
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posted July 21, 2014 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yea ok, well then.. before we are really done with this topic ...

quote:
I've experienced Sun opp Uranus and male Mars on my MC, I'll explain them.

... an explanation of Mars on your MC would be very welcome! O_O

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mir
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posted July 21, 2014 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lol guess what...


When I started this topic the Moon was at 29'16 Taurus!

C o m p l e t e l y VOID-OF-COURSE!

Even past the Sun at 28'47 Cancer.

Nothing coming out of it...

(eeey but the Mars/MC question remains! ;D)

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GeminiKarat
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posted July 21, 2014 02:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I give credit to this person. I did read a little excerpt of his book and I find it good.
The beginning of his journey was a walk through a graveyard in his youth and later in his live he took a photo of every grave that he found 7 years ago.(The whole graveyard). He did not find any significance, so he decided to go a different way.
He did not find a correlation of a planet in a house or the zodiac.
He also likes job, crime and disease found in the chart.
Medical astrology with references to death, disease, depression and suicide will be his next project.

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GeminiKarat
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posted July 21, 2014 02:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
His chart:


Source: http://wiki.astro.com/astrowiki/de/Harald_Hoffmann

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starrynight
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posted July 21, 2014 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for starrynight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Following his findings, the male Venus semi-square the female Mars (orb 2°) is a very significant inter-aspect that may bring divorce/separation.

Well, I've always been told by the old school astro ppl that while male Mars square female Venus means volatile passion and isn't romantically negative, male Venus square female Mars is not such a good thing.

quote:
Male Saturn conjunct female Sun (orb 6°)

Had this at 7°. The Saturn person was quietly jealous all the time, blaming me for not paying enough attention while at the same time not paying enough attention to me. In short, demanding, but not hotly--in a bitter, understated way.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 21, 2014 03:21 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mir:
Lol guess what...


When I started this topic the Moon was at 29'16 Taurus!

C o m p l e t e l y VOID-OF-COURSE!

Even past the Sun at 28'47 Cancer.

Nothing coming out of it...

(eeey but the Mars/MC question remains! ;D)


LOL
Yes..well, this one was pure Mars/Pluto conj (exact, my Mars though) Great passion and tension. His Mars on top of my MC and it felt just like that: he felt overshadowed by me in public (duh! says my Leo Moon hahahahaha) He didn't behave like that with other women, but with me, it's like I had to be in his shadow all the time for him to feel "manly". Totally weird! He was protective though.


Another important fact: at some point we worked on an artistic project together - this Mars here also could show such a combo - (a theatrical play)> He was the director, I was playing a role, also helped with the graphical part etc., an independent project. He wanted me to behave like I was his secretary or something, he even put me in my place in public (how daring! hahaha) but I don't think it was a conscious thing with him. I think his Mars there felt overshadowed by my "shining" side - the Midheaven.


I think it could be a good position if Mars finally understands why he was put there in the first place: to admire MC and put it on a pedestal and just worship it ...sorry her (I mean me)

------------------

I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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mir
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posted July 21, 2014 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL that was a great read Lee! And the truth is... NO ONE overrules a Leo-Moon ON stage! (only off stage haha). I just mean, they're born to be on the plank bridges.


Starrynicht Yess ^^ I'm also familiar with the male Saturn on my Sun (by 5*).
I had NO idea he was jealous (but admittedly, he clearly could have had his reasons to be, since I was a verry flirtatious type back then with not much of a limit) UNTIL... he (a full Aqua-stellium incl. Sun) erupted like a volcano! Scary!


Thanks GeminiKarat!
His Sun is right on my DESC. And his Moon right on Lee's Sun! So.. I'm sure that enthusiasm of ours didn't just fall out of the sky

Interesting read also about the graveyard visits.. I had the same (astro-)fascination years ago (no reason to visit those yards again nowadays).

I wish there was an english wiki-page for Harald..

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LucieLemonade
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posted July 22, 2014 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LucieLemonade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting thread! I was sure I had read about this astrologer before. But I'm not thinking it must have been another Swiss astrologer as I can't find any pages on Harald in French or in English. I don't read German.

I also see certain problems with the study though as some have already mentioned.

The MC ones or the "too many outside meeting" in particular could very well be an issue with Swiss society in general. Even today it's difficult for women to have children and a career. So I can easily see at least that "killer aspect" having to do with Swiss societal norms and a woman's frustration with not being able to have a career and children, more than something with the couple. Or maybe these women struggle with the traditional Swiss society.

Anyway, it's interesting non-the-less.

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next to neptune
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posted July 22, 2014 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow thank god me and my boyfriend does not have those aspect lol!

We do have my saturn opposite his ASC, but the opposition is over 7 degree, so I just act like it's too wide to count

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 23, 2014 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by amelia28:
Very good point.


Yep. Survivor bias can certainly be confounding.

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geminigal2805
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posted July 23, 2014 05:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for geminigal2805     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think some of those 'killer aspects' could have actually what brought them together as a couple. The initial attraction factor.

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LuckyStar
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posted July 23, 2014 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LuckyStar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My husband's venus is exactly conjunct my north node. Everywhere I have read this is a soulmate aspect. I don't know if it would be a Killer aspect. I would think Uranus square venus (we have in synastry) and Saturn square venus (both in synastry and composite) would cause more problems -for us at least. We are still married some days happily and others not.

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ariesdragon
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posted April 15, 2018 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ariesdragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyStar:
My husband's venus is exactly conjunct my north node. Everywhere I have read this is a soulmate aspect. I don't know if it would be a Killer aspect. I would think Uranus square venus (we have in synastry) and Saturn square venus (both in synastry and composite) would cause more problems -for us at least. We are still married some days happily and others not.

Thanks for sharing did you have any moments where you weren’t around each other for a few days cause of the venus square uranus?

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Randall
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posted April 21, 2018 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump!

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