posted August 28, 2014 11:10 AM            

Try the composite, too.

posted August 28, 2014 12:49 PM            

What is added from our regular synastry:

Because we have Sun opp Sun in synastry, in Helio his Moon/Earth exactly conjuncts my tropical Sun in Virgo, my Moon/Earth conjuncts his tropical Sun in Pisces. So there is a mutual Sun/Moon conjunction and a Moon/Moon opp flavor from the Helio perspective.

My Helio Mercury/Vesta (5th/8th ruler) conjuncts his Neptune (7th ruler) in Sagittarius. In tropical, my Mercury sextiles his Neptune. Poetry is suggested here and it is happening

In Helio, mu Moon/Earth conjuncts my Pisces stellium: Juno Jupiter Ceres Pholus. It is in tune with the Solar chart, where Juno/Jupiter conjuncts natal Sun.

In Helio, he has Pluto conjunct Vesta exact in Libra, conjunct my Mars/Pluto exact here, and ur Mars/Pluto conjunction is closer.

His Helio Cancer Mars conjunct my Saturn - my Mars squares his Saturn in tropical synastry. His progressed Mars is now at 0 Cancer.A DW with Mars/Saturn in square in Helio.

He has Venus conjunct Uranus (5th ruler) in Libra in Helio, conjunct my Uranus (ASC ruler)

We also have the lovely Venus trine Neptune in Helio. (Venus/Neptune DW with square and sextile in the tropical). Also, Venus sextile Venus here (Venus quincunx Venus in tropical)

My Venus/Amor in Leo opposes his Eros/Ceres/Juno.

The other aspects are also a variation of the tropical aspects.

The Composite Helio

A Trapezoid of the outers: Jupiter/Eros/Pholus Saturn Pluto and Neptune

Minor Triangle Moon Mars Uranus

Venus/Alma trine Mercury

Fixed Cross with Juno/Jupiter Mars Cupido and Mercury

Water GT: Eros/Pholus Vesta Saturn

posted August 28, 2014 12:58 PM            

His Helio Venus conjuncts my tropical Valentine
His Helio Eros/Juno conjuncts my tropical Psyche
His Helio Mars conjuncts my Tropical DSC/Saturn
My Helio Pallas conjunct his tropical Venus
My Helio Psyche conjunct his tropical Eros
My Helio Venus/Amor opp his tropical Venus/Juno/Ceres/Eros

Composite Helio 1st:

Mercury (MC, composite Sun ruler, NN star) conjunct tropical comp. ASC/Venus
Moon/Earth conj comp NN/Mercury
Venus conjunct Union exact in Helio composite
Mars conj tropical comp Priapus

posted August 29, 2014 04:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by libran_dream:
Is that... is that an ACTUAL Star of David??? Oh.my.god. Forgive the Valley Speak, I'm totally stunned.
Wow!

---

Yes, when I saw it, I was stunned myself. Still am as a matter of fact.
Seems we are missing a planet in 13 Cancer for a Water Grand trine, too.

As a matter of fact IQ pointed the helio composite out to me, and also concluding from this (and some others) that we might be twinflames. With a lot of kinky happiness.

posted August 29, 2014 04:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Go away with these perfect patterns

---

posted August 29, 2014 04:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
afraid of the competition

---

Watch Cappy come back with a double Kite tomorrow.

posted August 29, 2014 05:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by libran_dream:
@ Ceridwen - I haven't tried looking at composites yet, I'll do that!

@ LeeLoo - So many good aspects! I'm seeing a bunch of Saturn and Vesta contacts here, do you have them in tropical as well? It seems like potentially a very stable relationship.

---

Yes, we do have Vesta/Saturn DW, Vesta Moon DW, Vesta/Juno DW and other aspects and a nice Vesta trine Juno/Ceres in the comp

posted August 30, 2014 05:48 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by libran_dream:
[QUOTE
Anyway, back to that Star of David and Mystic Rectangle, that is some serious "planets have aligned" stuff.

---

Yes. Also I noticed something in respect to our tropical progressed composite.

Can you guess what got my attention?

[/URL]

And for comparision the tropical composite (I wished I could do a transposition. lol)

[/URL]

The symmetry axis made, wrapped up by the Venus/Pallas and Pluto/Priapus and Pluto/IC-mp goes through 01 Aquarius, 00 Leo, 01 Leo, so as you can see our ASC-DESC-line (relationship-axis) IS the very symmetry line of these planets and asteroids configured on the mid degrees of the signs.

In fact we have to add PROSERPINA and CIRCE on 14 Capricorn, and ARTHUR on 16 Capricorn, DIONYSOS on 15 Taurus, ATLANTIS on 15 Libra as well and probably some other I am forgetting. lol

posted August 30, 2014 07:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Exceptional Butterfly, Ceri! sitting right on ASC/DSC

---

Oh this is a butterfly?
Can you break it down for me, what makes it one?

posted August 30, 2014 02:10 PM            

"
by T Patrick Davis PMAFA 1980

1] Inserting the heliocentric positions of the planets at birth into a geocentric horoscope will, revolutionize the practice of astrology in every phase of its application. Bewildering gaps of knowledge are closed. Power-structures are found. The horoscope becomes sharper, clearer and easier to interpret correctly.

2] Neither chart is adequate by itself. Both the geocentric and the heliocentric positions of the planets are required for the greatest accuracy.

3] The influence of the helio planets is not confined to any single level of being but functions on the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual level in the same way as the geo planets.

LI] Progressed helio planets, using the day-for-a-year technique, were found to operate as effectively as geo-progressed planets.

5] Transit positions of helio planets were found to be as effective as those in the geocentric system.

6] The position of the helio planets should be calculated with the same procedure followed in calculating the gao planets: The GMT for the time of birth is used to interpolate between the positions given in an ephemeris for the day of birth and the day following.

INTERPRETING HELlO PLANETS

1] The helio planets in a sign and in a house should be interpreted exactly in the same way as the geo positions have always been treated. They denote another facet of interest or drives in the person which are as powerfully felt as those of the gao position.

2] The hello planets in aspect to other hello planets should be interpreted exactly in the same way as the same type of aspect has always been interpretred for geo planetary positions.

[Also see Whole Chart Patterns by Michael Erlwine]

3) When a helio planet is within a couple of degrees of an aspect to the Midheaven or Ascendant, its power in the life is considerably stronger than if no contact is made. It becomes a dominating influence under these circumstances and should be interpreted according to the basic principles associated with the planet and its sign location.

14] When hello planets aspect gao planets, and most especially between fast-moving planets, the orb should be kept narrow and they should be interpreted according to their basic nature of influence.

5] A strongly aspected hello planet is more significant in the life than one weakly aspectad in the same way as with geo planets.

6] A hello planet without strong aspects, or with no aspects, will operate through its sign and house position rather independently as an interest separate from the rest of the life. It should be interpreted in this way. It will prove to be a more “pure” manifestation of the planet in a sign and house than those blending interests through aspects.

7] When the rulership of a house finds the two locations of the ruling planet widely separated in the chart, the interests will be spread to both placements. It will not be weakened- it will go in both directions.

EXAMPLE: If Mercury rules the 7th house in the chart and one Mercury is found in the 5th house while the other Mercury is found in the 9th house, both positions will describe the marriage partner to an amazing degree. It will also describe the mental interests and drives of the individual represented by the horoscope.

8] While there is an interaction between the geo and hello systems, I suspect that an aspect between planets in the same system is more potent than when the two systems are mixed. Great difficulty has accompanied straightening out this magnitude of influence between the two systems.

9] In the progressed horoscope, the factors operating with the closest precision in the aspects formed, and most especially those being “touched” by the natal or progressed Midheaven or Ascendant, will be the most activated and responsive at that time - regardless of whether they are geo or helio planets.

POWER-STRUCTURES

1] Power-structures are formed when the same type of information is found in the geo positions as in the hello positions of the planets, or if the geo and hello blend forces to accentuate the contact. If the angles of the chart are also in close contact with the planetary pattern, it is safe to assume that the meaning of the pattern will be of the greatest possible importance to the entire life.

2] Power-structures may be indicated through aspects, through house locations, through sign locations, through equivalent-type significators, through contact with one or both of the angles of the chart, and through an interaetion between the geo and hello positions.

3] Power-structures provide the astrologer with a clearer picture of the magnitude of a talent, character traits, personal circumstances, obstacles and/or advantages which will be unique in their manifestation. EXAMPLE: Those with an intensely magnified financial picture of advantages or luck shown through both the hello and geo patterns may be born poor but become extremely wealthy. Those born into a stable, wealthy financial situation will not have the same kind of picture for it is a part of their personal circumstances from the beginning and no effort is required to manifest this fortune.

ORBS OF INFLUENCE

1] A much greater precision is possible through the addition of hello planets. Therefore, a much narrower orb of influence between planets in aspects is recommended than accepted previously.

2] The addtion of hello planets to the horoscope will provide a graphic picture on why such wide orbs of influence were felt necessary when only the geo planets were being used. This Is especially true of Jupiter, whose extension of influence has generated consideration that its massive size and multiple Moons spread out from it might be responsible for the need to broaden its sphere of influence beyond those given to other planets. The number of degrees between the geo and hello positions of Jupiter can vary from a conjunction to around 12°.

3] The closer the aspect is to exactness between planets, the more powerfully it will operate in the life. This is as true for geo-to-helio planets as for hello-to-hello planets as well as for geo-to-geo planets.

4] Natal chart aspects between hello and geo planets should not extend beyond a 3° orb unless another planet is positioned in such a manner that it creates a bridge-of-influence which will broaden the effect. In any case, this would rarely extend beyond a 4° orb. Aspects with a 3°-to-4° orb should be considered weak. It is in this area that extensive experience is decidedly helpful. There is a reluctance to lay down hard and fast rules without noting that there are various situations which will provide exceptions. FOR EXAMPLE: If slow moving progressions are moving to tighten the natal aspect, a slightly wider orb could be effective. While this would be the result of progressions, the lengthy or life-time influence would operate as though a close aspect existed in the natal chart.

5] Progressed aspects should be maintained at the usual 1° orb of influence although there have been occasions noted where a few minutes beyond the exact 1° was obviously effective through its appropriateness in describing the situation. The usual cause of this appears to be an early precipitation into response through the exactness of other strong factors operating simultaneously. The cumulative influences of several indicators working within the same time span will quicken an aspect which is still a bit wide of the exact 1° rule.

posted August 30, 2014 02:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Oh this is a butterfly?
Can you break it down for me, what makes it one?

---

The Butterfly, IMO, is a structure with a Pluto/Neptune vibe: it heralds transformation and metamorphosis leading to a new kind of freedom. For a couple (in synastry or composite) it shows their relationship possibly frees them (at least one of them) from some sort of "prison" either of the mind or a previous restrictive situation. It also shows, especially in the composite, a relationship with a strong "ideal" vibration: this is where the Neptune part comes in: the couple has a world of their own, when together, and their romance is flying high, they actually feel high when they are together Some call this configuration The Bird. I prefer the Butterfly, I have seen it in the natals of people who experienced some sort of Plutonian metamorphosis at some point in their lives.

The Butterfly can include several type of aspects giving the same symmetrical Butterfly config, but the "classical" Butterfly is made of 2 squares and 2 trines. The most important point is the mdp - it shows the "release" of the Butterfly's energy, the direction of the configuration.

posted August 30, 2014 02:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
http://astrologystudy.blogspot.de/2011/02/heliocentric-astrology.html

"
by T Patrick Davis PMAFA 1980

1] Inserting the heliocentric positions of the planets at birth into a geocentric horoscope will, revolutionize the practice of astrology in every phase of its application. Bewildering gaps of knowledge are closed. Power-structures are found. The horoscope becomes sharper, clearer and easier to interpret correctly.

2] Neither chart is adequate by itself. Both the geocentric and the heliocentric positions of the planets are required for the greatest accuracy.

3] The influence of the helio planets is not confined to any single level of being but functions on the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual level in the same way as the geo planets.

LI] Progressed helio planets, using the day-for-a-year technique, were found to operate as effectively as geo-progressed planets.

5] Transit positions of helio planets were found to be as effective as those in the geocentric system.

6] The position of the helio planets should be calculated with the same procedure followed in calculating the gao planets: The GMT for the time of birth is used to interpolate between the positions given in an ephemeris for the day of birth and the day following.

INTERPRETING HELlO PLANETS

1] The helio planets in a sign and in a house should be interpreted exactly in the same way as the geo positions have always been treated. They denote another facet of interest or drives in the person which are as powerfully felt as those of the gao position.

2] The hello planets in aspect to other hello planets should be interpreted exactly in the same way as the same type of aspect has always been interpretred for geo planetary positions.

[Also see Whole Chart Patterns by Michael Erlwine]

3) When a helio planet is within a couple of degrees of an aspect to the Midheaven or Ascendant, its power in the life is considerably stronger than if no contact is made. It becomes a dominating influence under these circumstances and should be interpreted according to the basic principles associated with the planet and its sign location.

14] When hello planets aspect gao planets, and most especially between fast-moving planets, the orb should be kept narrow and they should be interpreted according to their basic nature of influence.

5] A strongly aspected hello planet is more significant in the life than one weakly aspectad in the same way as with geo planets.

6] A hello planet without strong aspects, or with no aspects, will operate through its sign and house position rather independently as an interest separate from the rest of the life. It should be interpreted in this way. It will prove to be a more “pure” manifestation of the planet in a sign and house than those blending interests through aspects.

7] When the rulership of a house finds the two locations of the ruling planet widely separated in the chart, the interests will be spread to both placements. It will not be weakened- it will go in both directions.

EXAMPLE: If Mercury rules the 7th house in the chart and one Mercury is found in the 5th house while the other Mercury is found in the 9th house, both positions will describe the marriage partner to an amazing degree. It will also describe the mental interests and drives of the individual represented by the horoscope.

8] While there is an interaction between the geo and hello systems, I suspect that an aspect between planets in the same system is more potent than when the two systems are mixed. Great difficulty has accompanied straightening out this magnitude of influence between the two systems.

9] In the progressed horoscope, the factors operating with the closest precision in the aspects formed, and most especially those being “touched” by the natal or progressed Midheaven or Ascendant, will be the most activated and responsive at that time - regardless of whether they are geo or helio planets.

POWER-STRUCTURES

1] Power-structures are formed when the same type of information is found in the geo positions as in the hello positions of the planets, or if the geo and hello blend forces to accentuate the contact. If the angles of the chart are also in close contact with the planetary pattern, it is safe to assume that the meaning of the pattern will be of the greatest possible importance to the entire life.

2] Power-structures may be indicated through aspects, through house locations, through sign locations, through equivalent-type significators, through contact with one or both of the angles of the chart, and through an interaetion between the geo and hello positions.

3] Power-structures provide the astrologer with a clearer picture of the magnitude of a talent, character traits, personal circumstances, obstacles and/or advantages which will be unique in their manifestation. EXAMPLE: Those with an intensely magnified financial picture of advantages or luck shown through both the hello and geo patterns may be born poor but become extremely wealthy. Those born into a stable, wealthy financial situation will not have the same kind of picture for it is a part of their personal circumstances from the beginning and no effort is required to manifest this fortune.

ORBS OF INFLUENCE

1] A much greater precision is possible through the addition of hello planets. Therefore, a much narrower orb of influence between planets in aspects is recommended than accepted previously.

2] The addtion of hello planets to the horoscope will provide a graphic picture on why such wide orbs of influence were felt necessary when only the geo planets were being used. This Is especially true of Jupiter, whose extension of influence has generated consideration that its massive size and multiple Moons spread out from it might be responsible for the need to broaden its sphere of influence beyond those given to other planets. The number of degrees between the geo and hello positions of Jupiter can vary from a conjunction to around 12°.

3] The closer the aspect is to exactness between planets, the more powerfully it will operate in the life. This is as true for geo-to-helio planets as for hello-to-hello planets as well as for geo-to-geo planets.

4] Natal chart aspects between hello and geo planets should not extend beyond a 3° orb unless another planet is positioned in such a manner that it creates a bridge-of-influence which will broaden the effect. In any case, this would rarely extend beyond a 4° orb. Aspects with a 3°-to-4° orb should be considered weak. It is in this area that extensive experience is decidedly helpful. There is a reluctance to lay down hard and fast rules without noting that there are various situations which will provide exceptions. FOR EXAMPLE: If slow moving progressions are moving to tighten the natal aspect, a slightly wider orb could be effective. While this would be the result of progressions, the lengthy or life-time influence would operate as though a close aspect existed in the natal chart.

5] Progressed aspects should be maintained at the usual 1° orb of influence although there have been occasions noted where a few minutes beyond the exact 1° was obviously effective through its appropriateness in describing the situation. The usual cause of this appears to be an early precipitation into response through the exactness of other strong factors operating simultaneously. The cumulative influences of several indicators working within the same time span will quicken an aspect which is still a bit wide of the exact 1° rule.

6] Transits may be allowed an orb up to 2° from exactness, but 2° should be considered wide. It is not uncommon to find transit conjunctions exact to the minute or within minutes of exactness. The hello transits to helio planets should be considered a little stronger in effectiveness than to a geo planet, or visa versa, but if they are simultaneously moving to a cross-over or interaction, the aspects formed should be considered quite powerful. EXAMPLE: Natal geo Jupiter 2° Aries with natal !telio Jupiter at 13° Aries. If hello Mars is transiting across geo Jupiter while geo Mars is transiting across the hello Jupiter at the same time, the aspect should be considered dynamically effective - very powerful!
http://www.solarcharts.co.nz/Heliocentric%20Astrology.htm

---

Thanks for the post.

I suppose the houses are the ones in Geo?

1] Power-structures are formed when the same type of information is found in the geo positions as in the hello positions of the planets, or if the geo and hello blend forces to accentuate the contact. If the angles of the chart are also in close contact with the planetary pattern, it is safe to assume that the meaning of the pattern will be of the greatest possible importance to the entire life.

In this case, our repetitive aspects in Helio synastry and composite (a variation of the geo aspect, for example Venus sextile Neptune in Geo synastry, Venus trine Neptune in Helio synastry - I have noticed almost all aspects in Helio, if not all, have a correspondence in geo synastry/comp) could be considered a "power-structure"?

posted August 30, 2014 03:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
The Butterfly, IMO, is a structure with a Pluto/Neptune vibe: it heralds transformation and metamorphosis leading to a new kind of freedom. For a couple (in synastry or composite) it shows their relationship possibly frees them (at least one of them) from some sort of "prison" either of the mind or a previous restrictive situation. It also shows, especially in the composite, a relationship with a strong "ideal" vibration: this is where the Neptune part comes in: the couple has a world of their own, when together, and their romance is flying high, they actually feel high when they are together Some call this configuration The Bird. I prefer the Butterfly, I have seen it in the natals of people who experienced some sort of Plutonian metamorphosis at some point in their lives.

The Butterfly can include several type of aspects giving the same symmetrical Butterfly config, but the "classical" Butterfly is made of 2 squares and 2 trines. The most important point is the mdp - it shows the "release" of the Butterfly's energy, the direction of the configuration.

---

Thank you. And yes it makes sense. Meeting him certainly led to a liberation and especially freeing my mind from some weird ideas I had about myself.

So the release point her would be our ASC?

Oh and the two squares would be Venus/Pluto and Pallas/Eros-Priapus-Dionysos-IC, right?
With the trines being Venus/Eros-Priapus-Dionysos-IC, and Pallas/Pluto?

it also consists of two mystical triangles (squre, quinkunx, trine).

One being made from Pluto, Venus, Eros/Priapus/IC with Pluto at the powerpoint (meeting point of the square and quinkunx).

posted August 30, 2014 03:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Thank you. And yes it makes sense. Meeting him certainly led to a liberation and especially freeing my mind from some weird ideas I had about myself.

So the release point her would be our ASC?

Oh and the two squares would be Venus/Pluto and Pallas/Eros-Priapus-Dionysos-IC, right?
With the trines being Venus/Eros-Priapus-Dionysos-IC, and Pallas/Pluto?

---

Yes, these are the aspects. Amazingly enough, the ASC - direction of the Butterfly is EXACTLY on the mdp of Venus/Pallas.

The Butterfly on ASC/DSC involving the other angles as well gives the couple an almost mythical/mystical vibration - it gives purpose, romance, passion/compulsion (Venus/Pluto_, a transformative relationship, Eros/Priapus/Dyonissos kind of union, and an ideal fulfilled for both of them, away from the prosaic of the world, yet not necessarily isolated, of course. Pallas in this case is most certainly the goddess of Victory, being in the 1st house and all: the triumph of love (Pallas/Venus exact semisextile with ASC mdp)).

------------------

posted August 30, 2014 03:26 PM            

"have a correspondence in geo synastry/comp) could be considered a "power-structure"?"
Yes, I think so. It is what the magi call a transdimensional aspect I think.

I find it also interesting that while Mr Sag and me are decidely missing a Venus-Pluto-aspect in tropical synastry (though our natals have the square and the composite has the square as well), we have the Double Whammy in helio synastry.

his helio Pluto squares my helio Venus by 0°26
- and boy does THAT make sense, with my compulsiion, right? -

my helio Pluto quinkunx his helio Venus by 0°18

Taken together that results in Pluto trine Venus by 0°02 in the helio composite.

So the Venus/Pluto is there but becomes most obvious in helio.

Well my ASC conjuncts his Venus/Pluto-mp in tropical, too. But that would be him, being obsessed with me not the other way round.

Funny enough that gets even transported to helio in a way, as

my Earth is opposed his Venus/Pluto-mp by a bit more than one degree (and of course my tropical Sun as well. lol)

posted September 03, 2014 03:01 PM            

Well I coincidentally found it gain.

It is NYMPHE. of all asteroids. lol

So the release point is not only the ASC in composite and the Venus/Pallas mp, but also the Venus/Nymphe midpoint as well as Venus/Ishtar, as our Pallas is conjunct ISHTAR and NYMPHE (am I the only one getting a very sexualized imagery here, with Isnthar and Nymphe? though Pallas might rationalize some of it away)

Interestingly this is conjunct my natal Moon and his natal SAPPHO (doesn`t make it any less erotic or passionate. lol).
And also interestingly it is just 2 degrees of our helio composite Venus (of course it is, what else? )
and incidentally our pr composite Mercury is currently there as well.

Oh and you mentioned the anglosaxon ones, celtic, ARthurian.

We also have STONEHENGE and TRISTAN both on 13 Aquarius, 2 degrees off Nymphe. lol

Maybe I really should check the Draco celtic ones.

Especially since I just remember that CAMELOT is precisely on 20 Libra, right on the NN on 20 Libra, Cupido on 20 Libra and Amor on 20 Libra.

Always floors me that one. same degree.

happening on my natal DNA on 20 Libra and Sappho on 21 LIbra, with Chiron-Phoinix on 20 Aries.

also liniking to his Pluto on 21 LIbra, Anteros on 22 Libra.

Seems there is a lot of energy flowing through this composite node.

posted September 03, 2014 03:18 PM            

------------------

posted September 03, 2014 03:23 PM            

My freakiest spiritual experience happened with Pallas transits.

Wait a moment. I was having one on sunday night. Let me check if Pallas was transiting/ transited.