posted September 11, 2014 09:28 AM            

I have an aunt who has jupiter square pluto. She wakes up all night praying. She keeps watching stuff about christianity on TV all day. She barely sleeps.

She's so obsessed with religion at the point of craziness.

Not saying you have to be necessarily like that, but that's just what I know about it...

posted September 11, 2014 10:45 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Who said squares are bad?
You shouldn't believe them

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posted September 11, 2014 02:10 PM            

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
they are much harder to overcome than any other aspects? I mean…who say squares are good to have? None as I've heard of. Squares just means a lot of hard work, which not everyone is willing to put into anything. There has to be some nice and "easy" times too in any relationship?

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Hm...so you think a natal or synastry with only sextiles and trines is good?
The square is just a different energy than that of a soft aspect, equally important, equally good: action, the tangible, events, work, challenge, excitement, surprise, etc . My opinion, of course

posted September 11, 2014 02:52 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hm...so you think a natal or synastry with only sextiles and trines is good?
The square is just a different energy than that of a soft aspect, equally important, equally good: action, the tangible, events, work, challenge, excitement, surprise, etc . My opinion, of course

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And I'll second your opinion, again!

My easiest and longest relationship (so far) was dominated by squares and oppositions, including sun sq jupiter and jupiter square moon (and others, sun square saturn, moon sq pluto DW, Uranus sq Merc DW).

My current relationship also has lots of squares. Clearly, we don't know where this relationship is going as it's all quite new. But at least it feels like it's moving. As you write we feel there is something tangible to work with/for, to look forward to, etc.

The guy I dated before we had mostly trines and sextiles and it just stagnated. It wasn't going anywhere.

posted September 11, 2014 03:15 PM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

I agree with Leeloo and LucieLemonade, but there needs to be a balance.
If there are only squares it might get too much, too little breathing space or comfort zones.
However too many sextiles and trines, boredom sets in eventually. Though of course this also depends on each natal chart.

It also depends on the planets involved in the square a square between Mars and Saturn will feel quite different to one between Mars and Jupiter.
The square thends to increase the intensity of the aspecting planets, and with Mars-Saturn they are more prone to butt heads, whereas Mars and Jupiter or Venus and Jupiter are naturally compatibile. however one need to keep an eye on the exaggeration with Jupiter.

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Yes. This for sure! Mars and Saturn I personally find difficult to deal with. I have Mars opp Saturn (not even the sq!) with a friend and he is constantly "critiquing' my choices and I just want to slap him. LOL.

But a friend has the square with her husband and it doesn't bother her as she sees it all as positive to help her improve. I guess it's probably all in how the "critique" is delivered as well.

posted September 12, 2014 04:03 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hm...so you think a natal or synastry with only sextiles and trines is good?
The square is just a different energy than that of a soft aspect, equally important, equally good: action, the tangible, events, work, challenge, excitement, surprise, etc . My opinion, of course

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posted September 12, 2014 04:46 AM            

Actually sextiles seem to be more frequent in my synastries.

However, I am aware this could be mainly due to my natal chart which has only sparse aspects anyway, and those that are there are mainly conjunction and square, with a sextile here and there.

I think the only trine between planets I have is the one between Jupiter and Saturn, which I very much like btw.

As for other authors, well there are quite some who pay most attention to the 4th harmonic aspects and do not necessarily see them as negative, just as dynamic.
(well in my experience squares are more intense and extreme in manifestation which might be a little too much for some people, or in the case of some planets).

Actually there is a whole astrology school based on the use of dynamic aspects (Hamburg school, cosmobiology, Uranian astrology), and Noel Tyl and Basil Fearrington and Lauren Delsack also mainly use those in analysis (along with the quindecile).

Charles Jayne was among those as well. Actually he wrote in his chapter on synastry about this, too.
[URL=http://books.google.de/books?id=xgn6ka0MSSYC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=charles+jaynes+synastry&source=bl&ots=EXdbgIDKPq&sig=IpD6_P7Sj0Jx6-c7hwNbS2BtibI&hl=de&sa=X&ei=h7ISVJXUKcOqP P7rgZ]http://books.google.de/books?id=xgn6ka0MSSYC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=charles+jaynes+synastry&source=bl&ots=EXdbgIDKPq&sig=IpD6_P7Sj0Jx6-c7hwNbS2BtibI&hl=de&sa=X&ei=h7ISVJXUKcOq PP7rgZ[/URL] gC&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=charles%20jaynes%20synastry&f=false

Personally, yes, i would first of all pay attention to conjunction, opposition and square.
But not discrediting the other aspects either. However an isolated sextile or trine will not do much good in my observation.

What seems more significant are harmonic triangles. Closed patterns of at least 3 planets all aspecting each other at a reasonable orb (and that is very much up to debate, actually an ongoing one between Leeloo and me. )especially if the aspects are from the same harmonic.

THESE complexes are significant, core issues in a synastry.

If it is a 4th harmonic pattern (T-square, Grand Cross), it will be totally impossible to ignore. it might be a really tough cookie, or providing the spark and energy that is needed to fuel an attraction and shared growth. It depends on the planets and people involved.

Honestly though, while I like the Jupiter-squares to the relationship planets, I really tread carefully around Saturn-squares.

posted September 12, 2014 09:21 AM            

About the hard aspects/soft aspects thing. I think both types of aspects have their place. Personally I love trines and sextiles a lot. Especially to my 7th house ruler Mercury, and my Venus. A trine to my Venus turns also turns into a square to my Moon, which is okay as long as another soft aspect is made to my Moon to compensate for the hard one. To me, trines have a stimulating flow that allows you to just pour forth with somebody. The Fire trines are super fun (to me at least).

Maybe because of my chart I love mostly conjunctions, trines, and sextiles in synastry, with a few oppositions and squares. The five tightest aspects in my chart are a trine (Venus/Saturn), a sextile (Saturn/Jupiter), a conjunction (Mercury/Asc), an oppostion (Venus/Jupiter), and a quincunx (Venus/Moon). All these aspects have an orb of less then one degree. I tend to prefer peace most of the time. I have an opposition but I think oppositions are more civilized then squares, and tend towards negotiation rather then a full-on collision (which is more a square thing). Squares are a little alien to me, but even I recognize how they bring dynamism, growth, and excitement into your life. A little of that is good. Hard aspects give you the drive you need to put a lot of effort into something, and to push for change. Too many are exhausting though, just like too many soft aspects are boring. I love trines but I certainly wouldn't want a synastry with no hard aspects at all either!

I think each person has there own tolerance level for the different types of aspects, and it's about finding the right balance for you. Different planets in our chart also seem to have different tolerance levels for certain synastry types of aspects. We might love hard aspects to our Mercury and hate hard aspects to our Venus, while another person might prefer the opposite.

Going back to Jupiter, squares to Jupiter challenge us to use our Jupiter to put effort into something, and to push for change. There might be discussions about ethics that get quite heated, but also warmth and good humor are likely to be shared. If someone challenges you to use the happy, positive side of you to push for something, it can make you rather forceful with your excited, optimistic side around that person.

Jupiter square Saturn for instance...

Saturn says: "Life sucks, and it's so hard".

Jupiter says: "Do you dear say that! There's always hope!!! Hey, did you ever hear the one about the... (insert funny joke)"

Jupiter would feel like they were on a mission to show Saturn how to be more idealistic, and just to relax more. Jupiter might also have ethical disagreements with Saturn's ambitions, or obligations, and see Saturn as 'a downer'. Saturn might think that Jupiter is too blindly hopeful, too opinionated, and may even find fault with Jupiter's humor even if they are funny (Like Saturn might think Jupiter's humor is too rude, or blunt, even if they can't help but laugh).

These two would eventually rub off on each other. Jupiter would eventually be able to get Saturn to just laugh at life's problems once and a while, as well as to look at the ethical side of things, and not just at the practicalities. Saturn would get Jupiter to try to use a little more tact when expressing opinions, and to view some of their idealisms in a more realistic light.

This aspect is not the easiest. Jupiter/Venus, or Jupiter/Mars, are a lot more workable in synastry for most because the natures of the planets do not contradict so much. I hope the above description showed the essence Jupiter hard aspects though.

posted September 12, 2014 02:42 PM            

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
Nope, I never said that. A synastry isn't that black and white, there need to be a balance, but I would prefer a synastry with more nice aspect and a few squares and oppositions, over a synastry loaded with squares and oppositions and only a few "easy" aspect. And would you prefer the same thing?

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What I prefer to see is a synastry with aspects on both sides completing the other's natal needs, which includes a formula of hard/soft aspects, customized for each person.

I don't believe in "malefic" - or "bad" as you put it - aspects and "benefic" aspects and in "afflicted" planets. I have numerous arguments against this view, but I would limit myself to this thought: if your theory were correct, we would see a substantial amount of blue synastries among long-term happy couples and at least a few synastries exclusively blue, which I personally have never seen. We would also see red charts for "bad" people and blue charts for good people (enlightened leaders, positive personalities of the world etc.) if there were such a thing as bad (malefic, afflicted, difficult) and good aspects.

Dynamic, unfamiliar, externalized, eventful and action-oriented (the 4th harmonic) is as positive as smooth, familiar, internalized, uneventful and flowing (the 3rd and 6th harmonic) and what we usually need (and have) is the proper combination of both.

As for these specific squares...I suppose Saturn squares are generally focused, constructive, restrictive, disciplinary, while Jupiter squares are somehow the opposite: expansive, liberating, encouraging carelessness, freedom, expansion, fun and recklessness sometimes etc. Some people prefer one or the other depending on their natal chart needs.

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posted September 13, 2014 01:57 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

What I prefer to see is a synastry with aspects on both sides completing the other's natal needs, which includes a formula of hard/soft aspects, customized for each person.

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