posted September 20, 2014 01:13 PM            

Well we generally look for Sun/Venus, Venus/Venus and Venus/Mars conjunction, trine or opposition within 2 degrees in the progressed synastry (and even that 2 degrees is already a stretch of the usual 1 degree orb used for progressions).

I have four synastries here, which do not (quite) tick these boxes.

1. my parents
2. my best friend and her husband
3. my brother and his girlfriend
4. another couple

Though I did check for the stretched rules, using greater orbs and different aspects and composite; THEN something comes up in most cases.

1. my parents
his p Venus squaring her n Sun 0°03 s

so they had a Sun-Venus-square separating, or actually just peaking when they met and then fading away.

Something we sometimes find at the outset of relationships, but usually accompanied with strong applying Venus-progressions, which is not the case here (in terms of the search-parameters)

in terms of their composite, they did not quite tick the box either, but almost.

pr composite Venus conjunct n composite Venus 3°57 a

pr comp Mars sextile n comp Venus 2°04 a

2. my friend and her husband

pr comp Sun conjunct pr c Venus 2°54 a

her pr Venus sextile his n Sun 2°00a
his pr Sunt rine her n Venus 2°55a

While this looks neat and describes the unfolding over the years, it does not fit the timing of their getting together.

Unless the sextile is really more important than we give it credit (it came up for my parents as well in the composite), at least if accompanied by building Venus-progressions.

Nevertheless, progressions take a rather long time, even if they are not pr-pr, and we can probably fit just anything in, if we exapand the orb wide enough.

3. the other couple

his pr Venus conjunct her n Venus 2°56 s
his pr Mars opposite her pr Venus 2°47 s

pr comp Sun conjunct n comp Venus 5°40 s

no they clearly do not tick the box, however I found it interesting that they had the fitting progressions years before they would meet, but when they did and fell in love, those progressions were far gone (separating aspects actually usually have a smaller orb of influence than applying)

4. my brother and his girlfriend

nothing at all

Well, of course, if we stretched the orb, we could say, at least 3 "fit", but I find that very unsatisfying and it feels too arbitrary and reaching to me.

What it sais to me that it is not enough to simply check Venus/Sun, Venus/Venus and Venus/Mars; while these, if present, may serve as explanation for a relationship unfolding (I do not doubt that for a second!), I don`t think we can come to the conclusion that the lack of these means there will not be a relationship building (cause I have four cases on my hand, and these were just the first four I checked. lol, where the relationship DID unfold and except one, thse are still going strong, years later).

I find it also unsatisfying to say that this might just be due to the strong natal synastry they have. Of course their underlying natal synastry is good or even amazing, in 3 of these cases, otherwise a progression might have kickstarted something that would die down quite quickly afterwards.

But the question - for me- is about the progressions as timing tool. Not only an IF question, but also a WHEN (and HOW).

For me the simple conclusion is that our toolbox is not complete yet, and more research needs to be done, without of course using so many objects, aspects and whatever, so it becomes completely random. Tricky slippery lope this one. lol

What I find interesting is - and that is possibly completely coincidental and has something to do with the individual in question- that every of these couple had a Venus-Jupiter-progression happening.

For other common ground I Have to do a more thorough check.
I do believe that the Moon and angles will play a role in progressions too.

(aspectwise the quindecile seems to be a common feature as well, have to check which planets though).

posted September 21, 2014 08:58 AM            

That's really the second thing I would look for.. I've seen those biggies appear several times now within tight orb. Even with Paul & Linda an exact V/M opposition.

Until now, I can't say it's NOT one of those biggies being the initiator. Even with the wider orbs. Westran says that an exact natal-synastry aspect MIGHT have the same intensity level as a 2,5 degree applying progressed aspect. So, I wouldn't exactly make those wider orb aspects exceptions to the rule. If there's a string of great progressed synastry aspects waiting for you it also wouldn't suprise me that we can feel that on some level. After all, we're basically just tsunami animals although a bit further driven from our protective instinct. People often come together during one aspect within-orb but I'm pretty sure that we can't put those other aspects awaiting to arise completely aside. The WOW-feeling comes more with the entire future bunch or with progressed beauties coming ALL together at the peak at-some-moment-in-time than with just one aspect within the 2-orb at-the-start. Although, ofcourse, that's also pretty wow.

Yes, the Moon and angles also might play a big role. I'm not excluding them either.

posted September 21, 2014 09:30 AM            

Why would people come together at THAT moment during the span of several years ?(in case of progressed-progressed aspects involving Mars-Venus for example the span can be VERY long. 3 degrees does not really sound that much, but I can give you my own progressions as example: Pr Mars came into 3 degree orb applying to conjunction with my n Venus in 2013; the conjunction will peak in 2017, and leave the 3 degree separating orb in 2021. Of course the same would happen in a synastry as well.
So even if just take the applying orb, we are talking about FOUR years her. That is hardly useful for timing an event, even though i does mark a gradual development of course).

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For the same reason the existence of natal synastric aspects does not do all that good for progressions either. Not applicable as timing tool either.

(of course the basic synastry will ALWAYS play a role).

--------------------------------

While I am intrigued by the helio charts and I am not yet ready to dismiss them, i think we have to be aware that we are broadening our search-modus quite a bit here, and from one point on it becomes arbitrary?

Of course the same could be said about including the sextile or the quindecile.

----------------------

However I AM still inclined to take note of the helio charts, and I am especially inclined to take the composites serious, because they are simply the result of the natal or progressed synastric geomentry, that we might not see on first glance, but that is being there anyway.

But I am not really certain about its importance in terms of physical manifestations like events yet. Have to research that one.

I also find that astrology in terms of progressions and transits is an amazingly exact tool, and I don´t see why this should suddenly fall flat in terms of progressed synastry.

So ultimately I think in this case we will have to agree to disagree.

EDIT:
I do believe in the significance of progressions piling up, and the orb then might spread a little (a little - not over the span of 10 years!), but I expect at least one or two exact ones.

posted September 21, 2014 09:45 AM            

1. as indicator of a gradual development over a timespan, with an increase of "tempo", which can be felt with a larger orb (though in this case a larger applying orb, not separating. Waht is over, is done with, at least after a fall-out or fading-out-span)

2. as precise timing - tool, which is more event-than developmentally oriented - and this one needs pretty exact orbs.

posted September 21, 2014 10:10 AM            

1. my parents
------------

his p Venus square her n Venus 0°04 s

2. my friend and her husband
-----------------------------

his p Venus conjunct her n Venus 1°42 a
that fits!

3. my brother and his girlfriend
---------------------------------
his p Venus trine her p Venus 2°31a
his p Venus trine her p Mars 1°48
pr cVenus square pr c Mars 1°15 a

4. the other couple
----------------------
her p Earth opposite his n Venus 1°46a

his p Venus trine her n Earth 2°16a

Yes, the helios seem to give a convincing picture.

posted September 21, 2014 10:33 AM            

quote:

---

2. my friend and her husband
-----------------------------

his p Venus conjunct her n Venus 1°42 a
that fits!

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^ Lee had this with her current guy when they got together... LEEEE?? lol.

Well, I even disovered and witnessed the exact peak of this happening on board here

posted September 21, 2014 10:45 AM            

I will still keep an eye on these quindecile that, well, caught my eye.

as for my parents, maybe you can have a look, I don´t see it.

him: 25th january 1950; 9:00 p.m. Oldenburg / Germany
her: 27th october 1951; 8:25 p.m. Luckau/ Germany

posted September 21, 2014 11:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mir:
^^ That's what I mean!

^ Lee had this with her current guy when they got together... LEEEE?? lol.

Well, I even discovered and witnessed the exact peak of this happening on board here

---

You know my progressions better than me, Mir Let's hope it wasn't the peak, I like things to get better and to take a long time

But the progressions were definitely classical at the onset of our relationship: Sun/Venus, Venus/Mars, Venus/Mars/ASC/DSC, both having Sun Moon aspect in the progressed natals, but most of these aspects weren't peaking, they were applying, Sun/Venus was at 5 deg appl if I remember correctly.

Taking the peaking ones with rulers from Ceri's thread (I don't know if you've seen them, Mir, what do they show you?), they are:

my natal 5th/8th ruler Mercury
my natal 7th ruler Moon/Sun

my p Sun opp his p Sun
my p Moon sextile his n Sun (1)
my p Sun conj his n Uranus (5th ruler) (1)
my p Sun trine his n Mercury (ASC,MC ruler) (1)
my p Sun trine his n MC/Saturn ( also IC ruler) (1)

his natal 5th ruler Uranus/Saturn
his natal 8th ruler Mars
his natal 7th ruler Neptune/Jupiter

his p Uranus conj my p Venus (0)
his p Uranus conj my p Mars (1)
his p Saturn (also IC ruler) trine my p Sun (1)
his p Mars trine my p Sun (1)
his p Neptune square my p Jupiter (1)
his p Neptune quindecile my p IC (1)
his p Jupiter conj my p Jupiter (1)

his p Uranus conj my n Uranus (ASC ruler) (0)
his p Saturn square my n Mars (0)
his p Mars square my n Mars (0)

posted September 21, 2014 12:01 PM            

------------------

posted September 21, 2014 12:10 PM            

His p Venus conjunct my p Moon (0.04s)
My p Venus opposite his p Moon (1.00a)

His p Venus quincunx my p Venus (0.21s)

His p Mars opposite my p Venus (1.32a)

My p Sun opposite his p Moon (2.23s)

His p Venus conjunct my p Uranus (0.51a)

My p Venus sextile his p Neptune (0.02s)

My p Moon square his p Neptune (0.15a)

Can't tell you how it's going to turn out; went just dandy for exactly 1 year; weathering a somewhat rough patch right now.

posted September 21, 2014 12:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
It makes perfect sense to me, Ceri, I don't know about Mir , but Uranus should be the official ruler of FMs that feel like a life-changing FM!

---

You mean like an electrical current going through your body when you meet? Although technically, June 1, 2013 was not our first meeting.

posted September 21, 2014 12:28 PM            

his p Venus trine my n Uranus 0°26 a

and now it`s

my p Venus square his p Uranus 1°00s

plus

his p Sun squrae my p Uranus 0°03 a
his p MC square my p Uranus 1°03 s
his p Vertex conjunct my p Uranus 3°49a
his p Mercury squrae my p Uranus 1°11 s

my p Moon trine his p Uranus 2°49 s
my p Vertex squrae his p Uranus 2°35 a
my p Mercury square his p Uranus 0°34 a
my p Venus squrae his p uranus 1°00s

my p Vertex square his n Uranus 1°02a
my p Mercury square his n Uranus 0°58s
my p Venus square his n Uranus 2°33 s

his p Sun square my n Uranus 1°00s
his p MC square my n Uranus 2°07 s
his p Vx conjunct my n Uranus 2°32 a

composite_
pr Uranus conjunct pr Mercury 0°18s
pr Uranus quindecile pr Juno 1°33a

pr Mars conjunct n Uranus 2°57a
pr Juno quindecile n uranus 0°15a
pr Uranus quindecile n Lilith 0°15s
pr Uranus conjunct n MC 3°00a

Uranus seems quite fun, and he rules our composite.

Anyway I find it funny how we seem to have switched roles. First it ws my Uranus aspecting his p Venus, now it is his Uranus attacking my p Venus. lol

posted September 21, 2014 12:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delilah423:
You mean like an electrical current going through your body when you meet? Although technically, June 1, 2013 was not our first meeting.

---

That was EXACTLY The feeling I got, and to be honest, it feels like it is only getting worse everytime we meet again. lol

posted September 21, 2014 12:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delilah423:
In my progressed synastry when we got together last year:

His p Venus conjunct my p Moon (0.04s)
My p Venus opposite his p Moon (1.00a)

His p Venus quincunx my p Venus (0.21s)

His p Mars opposite my p Venus (1.32a)

My p Sun opposite his p Moon (2.23s)

His p Venus conjunct my p Uranus (0.51a)

My p Venus sextile his p Neptune (0.02s)

My p Moon square his p Neptune (0.15a)

---

There were, BTW, several other 0 degree major aspects. This is a partial list only; all progressed to progressed:

My Mercury (my 7HR), Neptune, and Pallas conjunct his Juno and ASC

My Mars conjunct his Psyche

My Chiron opposite his Vesta

My Ceres opposite his Venus and quincunx his Moon

My Pluto trine his ASC (in natal, it is the reverse)

posted September 21, 2014 12:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delilah423:
You mean like an electrical current going through your body when you meet? Although technically, June 1, 2013 was not our first meeting.

---

Yes, but not only that yummy lightning bolt lol. Uranus is the bringer of life-changing events.

posted September 21, 2014 12:36 PM            

Uranus seems quite fun, and he rules our composite.

This is a most interesting fact, me thinks. Shouldn't be the composite chart ruler the one actually bringing together those people, no matter the planet? In this case, wouldn't be an interesting idea to check progressions involving that planet at the onset of a relationship?

Well, my chart ruler is Pluto (maybe Mars), so I guess I should also check SA, what do you think, Ceri?

posted September 21, 2014 12:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Uranus seems quite fun, and he rules our composite.

Anyway I find it funny how we seem to have switched roles. First it ws my Uranus aspecting his p Venus, now it is his Uranus attacking my p Venus. lol

---

I'm not very happy with Uranus right now; he is dealing with a transiting Uranus retrograde conjunct his natal Venus (which at the moment seems to mean he's not sure about me). It's going to be there for a LONG time. Just for added life-changing experiences, I have an applying Uranus-Uranus square.

In progressed composite, we've got Uranus aspecting pretty much across the board; the closest being square Sun and Mars (2), both applying.

I'm not sure the applying Venus conjunct Sun (also in progressed composite) is enough to survive. Hopefully, our natal Sun/Saturn double whammy and my natal Venus trine his natal Sun will help a bit.

posted September 21, 2014 01:42 PM            

I keep my fingers crossed for you that it will all transform for the best.

Uranus is so unpredictable, you can never be sure about what is going to follow.

Could be a sudden break up or an unexpected breatkthrough. You just never know.

We have Tr Uranus currently opposing composite Pluto on 15 Libra and squaring composite Venus on 16 Cap. And the ecclipses will hit these points as well.

Well, I think whatever that brings, it is what is needed. Even if it means that a clash is inevitable, or not, noone knows with Uranus. lol

posted September 21, 2014 01:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Oh, my, Ceri, the Uranus you have there

[b] Uranus seems quite fun, and he rules our composite.

This is a most interesting fact, me thinks. Shouldn't be the composite chart ruler the one actually bringing together those people, no matter the planet? In this case, wouldn't be an interesting idea to check progressions involving that planet at the onset of a relationship?

Well, my chart ruler is Pluto (maybe Mars), so I guess I should also check SA, what do you think, Ceri?

[/B]

---

Yes SA is of course always important too. And I agree with the chartruler, I do not know if it will always be there, but definitely deserves a special note, if it comes up.

Well our pr MC is applying to a conjunction with the composite Sun right now, and with Sun ruling the DESC, I definitely pay attention to that one, too.

posted September 21, 2014 04:39 PM            

quote:

---

EDIT:
except for my parents, I thnk I have to have a closer look again, maybe I missed something.

first meeting was in summer 1971, not sure when exactly, but at the end of august my mom was leaving for a trip to Paris with her colleagues, and it was just a few weeks after having met my Dad.

---

Well, Ceri…

Close enough to my taste in GEO (10th of august ’71);

Your Mom’s pVenus;
6’48 Libra
Your Dad’s nMars;
9’19 Libra

(2’31 appl. ^)

(His p-NN is also involved at 8 Libra exactly + his p-VERTEX at 6’27 Aries)

posted September 21, 2014 06:35 PM            

Pluto - our composite chart ruler

SA Pluto was on 14.28 Scorpio for me, 14.52 Scorpio for him

It triggered our natal cross made of:

my IC 16.44 Scorpio
his Moon 16.30 Scorpio
my Moon 14.43 Leo
my Lilith 14 Aqua
his Juno 14 Aqua

also, his pVenus 15 Pisces at the time, my pASC 16 Pisces at the time. Not bad, I think.

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