posted September 21, 2014 04:45 PM            

We're both on the asexuality spectrum, and it's kind of an accident of a number of things that we've chosen to have a sexual relationship. Coming up on a year now. There's no doubt we have a strong connexion, but the sex has always been ... complicated. It started because we were dared to, (good God, don't dare a lunar Aries unless you want to be proved wrong), and continues because we found a mutual love of experimentation, exploration, and deconstruction.

It would be perfect -- if we didn't butt up against these moments of true sexual intimacy. Then my being reminded of how he has no need for sex (asexual schizoid, like me, and many years celibate prior to our relationship) can be a little disconcerting if I happen to be coming off an oxytocin surge and oestrogen cocktail. Then my usual, rational approach takes a nosedive, and I find myself feeling vulnerable.

My BML gets brushed to the side with PRIAPUS in full swing. It's horrible. I want to hide in very deep hole until it passes. I'm NOT fit for human consumption, as I like to say, and he's hardly ever in contact anyhow. (We tend to see each other weekly and stay intermittently in touch via email -- only if there's pragmatic reason for it.)

Only once my BML reasserts itself do I feel sane again and able to manage the relationship.

So what am I missing here? Is it as doomed as I feel, or do I just know too much about the intricacies of human coupling to where I'm overcomplicating and overanalysing?

Your input greatly appreciated. Synastry with relevant points below. (I'm your resident SUN-PLUTO-BML, natch.)

posted September 21, 2014 05:26 PM            

Since I've already given you some of my first impressions, how about you direct me a bit now? Any specific questions I should be looking up the answers for?

In the meantime, a little about what you said in your OP.
First of all, I bet the 7o9/Spock fanfic is seriously hot. Spock is practically walking sex, come on. I will freely admit that I had a long and very illuminating Pon Farr fanfic reading phase in my life, no shame in my game. No true Plutonian could skip this right of passage. It's our Danielle Steel.

I'd say that you're already sussing out the answers yourself, here. Yes, you're overanalyzing. But it's a professional deformation. Yes, it's probably doomed. But you probably enjoy it all the more for it. And doesn't everything fail, eventually.

BML conjunct Mars, ie, just relishes stimuli. Beating things into the ground. Like picking at scabs. So long as you're doing something, you know? BML is very "dumb", so to say. It's a very unintelligent energy, just blind stimuli.
You're both people that are very married to your respective intellects, and yet there is so much of the base and instinctive that touches here. Discomfort is inevitable. It's pushing you to live beyond your self-imposed boundaries, explore your humanity.

posted September 21, 2014 05:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
No takers, eh? No one wants to take a little trip into the complexities of asexuality, and how it may be playing out astrologically? I clearly need a fresh perspective.

---

I TYPED THAT AS YOU POSTED. Are we in sync or what?

posted September 21, 2014 05:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by libran_dream:
Spock is practically walking sex, come on. I will freely admit that I had a long and very illuminating Pon Farr fanfic reading phase in my life, no shame in my game. No true Plutonian could skip this right of passage. It's our Danielle Steel.

---

Yeah. All the walking sex, none of the Pon Farr. My husband asks, 'when are you going to consider what is NOW to be an overwhelming victory?'

posted September 21, 2014 06:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
I have a question - were you both diagnosed with SPD by a professional or is it your theory?

---

I was diagnosed at 19, cappy. As to him ... it's tricky. He's known of my schizoid personality for years, and did his own research in 2012. I never diagnose anyone outside of a professional setting, and I ALWAYS get second (and third) opinions.

In his case, he began to contemplate the label himself, and started to share the possibility with the few people close to him (two childhood friends he calls 'his brothers', as he, too, is an only child). My own therapist, who's met him twice said, once the topic came up, given his history and outward personality, 'he seems like a textbook case.'

I think he himself opted for 'the label' as a means to belong to SOMETHING. He was tired of feeling 'alien' and 'Vulcan' and like some bizarre combo of Spock and The Doctor. This artificial friendly facade in order to disguise a powerful xenophobia and inability to connect, period. I made it through the wall because, 'I'm rather persistent', (as he put it). Yes, well, rub it in. What he means to say is that I didn't actually run this time, as I'm wont to do, and HE had to do his OWN pursuing -- in order to maintain any sort of contact with me. He conveniently forgets -- or downplays -- that part of it. I don't blame him; it's very uncharacteristic.

posted September 21, 2014 06:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
No takers, eh? No one wants to take a little trip into the complexities of asexuality, and how it may be playing out astrologically? I clearly need a fresh perspective.

---

People aren't online all the time and you post a lot about this thing, only to seem to run to the next post about the same thing after having had some epiphany or a twist happen that seems to change something for you, making you forget the previous post/s? Hard to keep up sometimes even if there was something new to contribute. I'm not equipped to do that for the most part I imagine. Plus you seem to get quite a bit of attention or comments to these in any case, even when some people never get any replies. Your own drive to pick at something perhaps drives even the responses you get, but not everything has (easy?) answers.

As for asexuality, I think it's difficult for people to say much about unless they're familiar with that side, or comfortable discussing sexual topics from one end or the other.

For example, "Then my being reminded of how he has no need for sex (asexual schizoid, like me, and many years celibate prior to our relationship) can be a little disconcerting," leads to the kind of comment I made about being alone on the other side. People can go for years celibate, or more precisely, without having sex with another person, without it meaning that they have no need for sex. Even if the sex drive was lower people may still like some element or side of it in their lives, and if someone who has chosen to not have partners for years before changes the pattern, then they must have had reasons for getting involved with the other person. Whether the choice to stay involved with someone remains or not is their thing and little you can do anything about, other than try having good relations with him on the whole? Insecurities happen, but aside from your feelings of insecurity over too much intimacy, it's hard for us to see anything that would specifically wreck the sexual side of the relationship. And if you're against the intimacy, are you willing to stick with the thing either, or looking for something to end it, and an excuse to pin the ending on?

posted September 21, 2014 06:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Is it me or do you want to fix him and believe he could fix you too? I think you know this is a recipe for a disaster.

---

That's a more complex question. Here's a brief timeline.

Okay. Summer of 2012, he came to me and said he was tired of being the way that he is, and has determined it's abnormal, dysfunctional, and unhealthy. I considered he might be jumping the gun, but asked what I could do. That's when he started doing something of a core dump which unfolded over months; just unloading everything that happened to spring to mind. All well and good. While he maintained his imperceptible-unless-you're-looking-for-it distance, he still revealed more than he had before; specifically, his experience of what had just been a sort of rote recitation of events of his life (from 2010 until that point).

2013, March, he suddenly tells me, in one fell swoop, that he's finding himself 'feeling' again, in a way he never really has before; that he's 'reconnecting' all of that which was disconnected long ago, and, as a result, his feelings for me had never changed, which he'd only just then truly realised, and he wanted to explore a more personal relationship again. Honestly, I wasn't ready. Yet.

By that September, I felt that I was. The summer took a huge toll on him (mostly financial and career upheaval as studios went overseas for casting) and he was 'disconnected' again. I was blunt with him, saying that IF he wanted to try again, I did, too. Around Hallowe'en, we resumed our relationship, after a 2-year respite.

Mid-December, word got back to us that, the family with whom we'd just spent Thanksgiving (my husband's ex-girlfriend) -- her family, they're wonderful people -- was actually commenting on the great likelihood that our relationship would ever become sexual. No, I'm not at all kidding. How ... embarrassing. I'd remarked upon it in an email, somewhat joking (I thought) that apparently we appeared as hopeless as we are. He didn't reply back -- or in regards to that.

We slept together for the first time a few days before Christmas. We had been focussed upon going through the normal stages of a becoming-sexual relationship prior to that. I'd remarked before that I was comfortable with our intimate activities including actual sex. That night it was both extremely calculated, and still a bit impulsive. We were both tired of being 'hopeless' and rather proud of taking the leap forward.

A year of rather fascinating study followed. He remarked, in January, that I'd created the conducive environment in which he could finally explore his sexuality. I felt wonderful about that. But the purpose of our sexual relationship has always been rather ... elusive. We agree it's mutual healing and becoming comfortable with having a sexual identity; with contemplating ourselves as sexual beings. But we're always both raging against being too analytical, too intellectualising, and hiding from the emotional intimacy that DOES develop at times during the course of sexual relating and exploration.

Short answer ... we're trying to fix ourselves, which happens to involve each other to a great extent. Because, while it's easy to be a loner, and a hard decision to be vulnerable, you HAVE to make that choice eventually, whatever the decision.

We both decided to be together. Go figure. It's hardly without its issues, of course. This is a big one. My husband argues that, while he refuses to run and will keep trying, he acts as if the sexual relationship is far less important -- 'take it or leave it' -- as a coping strategy. I buy that. I even believe it.

posted September 21, 2014 06:37 PM            

Sometimes, and for my own edification, I have to take a step back from the enormity of everything and focus more specifically. Especially when there are a few individuals whom have brought me an exceptional insight.

I chose this particular topic as it deals with a few things -- especially, asexuality sexuality. Maybe there are markers here I'm not aware of? Or, maybe it's all in his natal, and I'm too close to it. Many different explanations here.

I'm ready to delve more deeply into THIS part of it. It's time now. We're in a relationship -- not just playing at it -- and there are real issues here. I think he's very conflicted; I'm having to go against my essential nature here.

But maybe that's what I have to do? Just seeking insight.

posted September 21, 2014 06:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
... People can go for years celibate, or more precisely, without having sex with another person, without it meaning that they have no need for sex. Even if the sex drive was lower people may still like some element or side of it in their lives, and if someone who has chosen to not have partners for years before changes the pattern, then they must have had reasons for getting involved with the other person ...

---

This I know -- especially being a sex therapist. My own 'distance' from it has helped me in staying objective, but I've been lacking in the empathy department until recently.

I'm not putting words in his mouth, however. He SAID this. In a conversation he, my husband and I were having. It went as so:

'May I ask you a rather intimate question?'
'Sure.'
'Do you 'need' sex?'
'Absolutely.'
'Fascinating. ... Why?'
' ... Are you seriously asking me -- '
'Yes. I ask because I don't. Need sex, that is. It's ... nice. But I'm perfectly fine without it.'

posted September 21, 2014 08:06 PM            

This is why I opened this here. It helps me to gain perspective via the very curious population we've got on this forum. We're a mixed group for sure.

Without crossing boundaries here, I'll say that the 'solo practise' is purely based in discomfort, and 'managed' weekly. He's the first case of asynchronous E I've ever seen. (Google that one; the gist is, 'the mess without the O'. That's a huge sign of psychological issues interfering with basic processes.) So, no fantasy, just 'taking care of the problem'. He once mentioned, back in February, when I'd asked him more thoroughly about his habits, that he's thought of me. My mind was blown.

I DO enjoy the fact he doesn't need fantasy in order to be present in the act. What bothers me is the downside of sex in a controlled environment. Take that away, and it seems that someone can be completely at a loss. It's almost a rote script.

Combine that with the general lack of fantasy or sexual enjoyment (regular solo habit to handle discomfort, otherwise, inability to climax with a partner -- a form of DE that's life-long, but still likely psychologically induced), and verbal declaration of the lack of need for sexual relating, and ... I have two choices.

Continue exploring methods to treat the DE, so that he can actually climax with me. And just ignore the nagging voice in my head telling me he's only doing this for me -- and a secondary desire to be 'functional' and 'normal'.

Or ... ask him why he wants to continue something that's 'nice'. If he doesn't need or even DESIRE it, then what on earth are we doing? I understand, actually, not needing sex. My desire nature is entirely linked to nothing that's biologically motivated. But IF that connexion exists, THEN I might find myself desiring it. If I let myself. Which I had done for awhile, until it just felt as if he was so ... that we weren't at all on the same page.

posted September 22, 2014 01:57 PM            

--
Reading through your posts, I find it a little difficult to get to the heart of the problem. As most professional writers, you hide the core of an issue in too many words.
I'm used to more specific pointers when looking at charts, ask me the right question and I'll zoom in like a bloodhound until I find the cause. Ask for generalities and I'm a little flummoxed.

So I'll present what I see from what I think you're basically asking.
As Vajra pointed out very perceptively, don't expect to hear "the truth" about their feelings from an Aries Moon. The feelings are so bound with the instinctive, sometimes it's difficult for them to realize they have them. Multiply that by many, many times with a square with a retro Mercury. He might have made progress by now in his life, but this is a person that does not understand, or care for, his feelings. They're just pesky things that disturb the mind. And the mind has enough problems of its own, with being retro, Water, and in H8.

This is the wrong attitude to have, certainly, and it's obvious to anyone with a nicer Moon-Mercury connection that no one can actually live like that, but to him it's just a fact of life.

What's funny in your relationship, is that you sexualize that wannabe "dry" Mercury with your 2 conjunct asteroids. Bit of Fate's turnabout for him, if you want to get poetic. I didn't want to get into asteroids, but I can't help it since they're right there...

The combination of Moon opposite Mars and H8 Sun makes for an interesting sexual dynamic in a person. There is a tendency to go overboard and lose sight of the self, so there is an overcompensation of self-control. When younger, you can be so impulsive about sexuality and lack the fine control that your insight into people needs. And this just "will not do, at all", so with age, an obsessive self-control can form in a person. The more eagle-eye oversight you have over it, the better. Even to the point of shutting it all down. What's more satisfying for a control freak than to control the sexual instinct itself. It's a high of its own.

posted September 22, 2014 04:41 PM            

I appreciate your taking the time to, well, beat the dead horse a little more. I wish there was something there which I don't already know, or haven't analysed to death; some kind of, 'eureka!' moment. Alas, perhaps the fact there just isn't is the most telling. That may be novel or enlightening to the majority of the population, but it's Tuesday for me. Hence, my frustration.

I think I'm second-guessing myself. In everything. I know far more than to simply be dangerous; I have intimate, expert knowledge. I know enough to see the mismatches and misalignments. Unlike most women, I CAN come to the uncomfortable realisation that the physical ability does NOT mirror the internal state. Which I'm then saddled with deciding whether to maintain the illusion or shatter it?

I chose the latter. It'd be one thing if I actually enjoyed sex. I don't. Further, I think I've resorted to astrological analysis because, @libran_dream I think I've stumbled upon my real question:

Why are we having a sexual relationship at all? What exists in our synastry which has made this an unconscious driving force in we both work so diligently to deny?

Is it as simple as the 5H/8H overlay combined with his T-Square and the means by which my Libran points activate parts of it -- involving our BML/PRIAPUS axes -- or is it deeper than that?

I was taking note yesterday at the ease with which he's come to relate with my stepdaughter, who just adores him. There's no doubt that our sexual relationship has changed him in fundamental ways -- allowing him to be more social (with those already important to him) and a bit more demonstrative. Markedly more confident, and less afraid of being perceived as 'intimidating and overbearing'. But in watching them, something else was coming through; the 5H nMOON, perhaps -- the means by which he has no trouble relating to children. Not because he's a child himself, but he doesn't condescend, nor act in the usual dismissive way many adults do. He's just comfortable. Outgoing. Relaxed. Able to thoroughly enjoy the conversation with full attention and engagement -- not necessarily to instruct or guide, but merely to share, brainstorm, and appreciate. Their interactions have REAL value to him.

It reminded me of Charles Dodgson, (Lewis Carroll) and his child friends. While I always knew the allegations (of my distant matrilineal relative, from which I likely derived my schizoidism) painting him a paedophile were false and a misunderstanding of the times in which he lived, it took my understanding of his unique personality type to grok why.

It wasn't until yesterday, however, when my partner was yet again bewildered when I announced that my husband and stepdaughter would be returning from their gaming session in a half hour, that we really, finally, discussed it. I don't doubt the time gets away from him, but I become suspicious of my own tricks being unconsciously played back at me.

After all, I'm a decades-long master at avoiding sex.

One of my best diversions is filling the time with other activities -- talking, typically. So when he has a queue -- or agenda, as he calls it -- you can guarantee each item of that list will be crossed off until the thought of being sexual can even enter his brain.

I get it. I'm the exact same way. A history of boyfriends, and most notably, my husband, can attest.

So, oftentimes, my relationship with this man feels like a strange and hefty dose of bad karma. At long last, I'm in their shoes, insofar as wondering: 'is he just ... not at all into me?' Which is evidently what I've inspired most in the men I've known intimately.

I'm just not like most other women.

And again, I find myself wondering -- why bother at all? Why care? Why try? Why is it, that when we DON'T have the outlet, it quickly does what all stifled and sublimated libido does: morphs into anger, conflict, resentment, retaliation and eventual avoidance?

After all, HE was the one who'd commented back in 2010 that we begun exploring a non-platonic relationship because 'it was affecting our work.'

... Whaaaaa? You could have knocked me over with a feather! I'd had ZERO idea. And I'm so skilled at reading another person it's been called 'scary'. But reading him? The man's inscrutable. I NEVER know. (Likely those 12H overlays.)

One thing to touch on of grave importance, though, Vajra.

He may not be designed for polyamory, but the greater likelihood is that he's not made for anything. There's a deep conflict there: what he thinks he wants, and what his actions would denote. In 47 years, he'd never had a sexual relationship, and a grand total of 10 encounters -- 8 of which took place from December 2013 to September 2014. In his own words, if he was seeking a companion of his own generation, he would have chosen someone and married over a decade ago. His life would be very different.

But he didn't. His dysfunctional childhood is a deep scar that expresses itself in terms of a potent underlying mistrust, and the ultimate fear of choosing WRONG, and ending up in a miserable obligation, that he's opted out of committing at all.

Then there's the overwhelming feeling he had, for the first time in his life at 42, that he'd FINALLY found her. I had no ring, either. (My husband opted to propose without one; I only began wearing a little slip of chain around my finger that I'd cut from my jewellery supplies since I worked in a casino, and was actually grateful to show I was not available to their harassing advances.) But he did learn, about half an hour after our meeting, at my fiancé agreeing to arrive later to pick me up, that I was indeed engaged.

It was the first time it seemed a legitimate problem to him. He couldn't just brush it off. To make matters worse -- or better, depending -- he was an exceptionally ideal casting choice, and auditioned formally about 2 weeks after.

So we became familiar with each other, working the long hours we did to get the demo ready. He was working every other series in town at the time in some capacity; it's remarkable he made the time he did -- not only for the project, but to cultivate a friendship. Had he never dropped bizarrely forward hints about the fact he'd initially intended a romantic relationship, I would never have known. He just doesn't give off the usual vibe. At all. If he says he's admiring the beauty of a nude model, there's something about him that conveys he's absolutely being truthful.

And therein lies the heart of the matter. Something so rare that it's wonderful, and yet so different that it becomes confusing, too.

I've never taken it personally. Never once. Our relationship ended in November 2010, a month prior to the wedding, because he'd suddenly begun reinterpreting his own reticence as situational, rather than intrinsic.

It was a month of hell.

He brought a bouquet of white roses in apology to a gathering which we were both attending. Oddly, in that moment, he was so overcome by the circumstances at hand, he didn't seem to bother with how all of it was perceived by the several others present. I was actually stunned. The apology, he'd later stated, was that he couldn't be anything other than what he was. But it's quite something to have a man of his character, demeanor and calibre, offer such a dramatic display.

I certainly look upon that as proof that even when he's his most 'unaffected', he's startled me with his capacity for throwing away ALL sense and decorum. I'm sure there were more than a few wagers settled that evening with equally surprised bettors.

When I'd confessed my desire to continue a professional relationship but not a friendship in 2011, he interpreted my actions (and lengthy letter) as losing me entirely. That's when HE decided to change -- or try. A fear I've had to work to banish is the fact he just didn't INFORM me of his renewed reticence to continue a non-platonic relationship. It just faded into the background of hectic schedules and neither mentioning its absence by October 2011.

Which brings us to the present. Sort of. October 2013, he decided he WANTS to have the sort of 'moral flexibility' that would actually allow him true happiness. He then began to contemplate the deeper roots of why he'd been so opposed. Marriage to his principles, with a personality of one more belonging to the Silent Generation than his own, more than likely.

So, fortunately, it's not a subconscious stress over nonmonogamy. In his own way, he's decided I'm the one he was to be with anyway, and he's making it work in all its complexity.

posted September 22, 2014 07:06 PM            

I should hasten to add that I've been under a lot of extra stress as of late, and am not handling myself very well. Forgive me, as I greatly value your input and appreciate your time. My tact has been ... Mars Returning, shall we say. There's something else hovering about it, too; I forget what.

Plus, tSNODE conjunct my nPRIAPUS is like sand in my soul. It's this itch that can't be scratched. An extremely raw spot upon which heaping scoops of karma is being poured. AUGH! Since this means the tNNODE is right on my nSUN, I'm confronted with incredibly fortunate undertakings which force me to deal with deeply buried things because of how vulnerable they make me.

Does that make sense?

Unfortunately, I haven't been my usual diplomatic Libran self since the Mars Return a week ago. Very tetchy. None too tactful. Mea culpa.

Your points are all extremely valid -- and very known to me. THAT's what I tried to convey. Hence the frustration. Perhaps the most dominant emotion, because I'm usually the cool, unflappable, logical one.

It all confuses me to no end. Especially why I care as I do. I spent a good while acting as if I simply didn't, but that was dishonest. I quit that in 2013. Rather, 'care' isn't the right word. The fact that a sexual relationship even matters. That's flabbergasting for me. It's like it's NOT me. And yet, I can't deny that it is. Not anymore, at least.