posted May 28, 2015 06:13 PM            

I'm intrigued by these obscure ones - everywhere I look they're labelled as rather impenetrable and hard to understand; strangely impersonal, but generally very dark and murky.

I became very intrigued by Hades when I found out I'd got my birth date slightly wrong, and in the amended chart, Hades was exactly conjunct my MC. Considering everything that Hades is supposed to stand for, this is actually eerily accurate: my most important career goals have to do with archaeology and with secrets from many centuries ago.

So, being impersonal and impenetrable, do these have any specific role in synastry? Can their 'meaning' be teased out at all, or is it more like they have an influence but you can't really tell what it might be?

posted May 29, 2015 04:50 AM            

"1. Hades: Hades is the place where we all start in the soul’s journey. The original delineations of Hades involved disease, secrets, death, lack, poverty, famine, and evil. Many believe this is the Underworld, the source of evil, Satanic or demonic spirits, but this is hardly the case! Hades is easily the most misconceived planet and it is a combination of other planetary energies, involving Saturn (responsibility, discernment), Neptune (addiction, spirituality), and Pluto (destruction, transformation). Hades also represents the collective consciousness, karmic debts, and paying back for whatever does not serve your Highest Good. When we start this “life” thing, at the beginning of the soul cycle, we all begin here and work the evil out of the soul and decide unconsciously to become higher vibration beings. However, it is the overarching realm we enter in the dream state, as this Hades is the keeper of the portal to the other worlds and only shows us what we are ready to know. Unlike Zeus and Vulkanus, Hades is largely unconscious and has very little subconscious energy attached to it, though it still does exist in this domain. Authentic purpose is the theme here."

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

LeeLoo's Esotericorner

posted May 29, 2015 04:50 AM            

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

LeeLoo's Esotericorner

posted May 30, 2015 03:12 PM            

My husband and the woman he's dating begun their relationship on the day ALGOL was conjunct the SUN, and exactly on their Relationship Chart's MC. ... Wow. So, it's been VERY public.

I'd say the keyword is 'emotional' and 'transformation'. They've been digging out the most unsightly bits in each other, and it's tough to accept at times. My husband has learnt a lot through me (how couldn't he?) and just being witness to my practise. She, on the other hand, hasn't really been through therapy, and has a hair-trigger reaction to too much delving.

Just yesterday, I had to keep their entire relationship from imploding because both were hitting the eject button, acting from a place of pure, raw emotion. All it took was getting each to calm down long enough to see the other's perspective to engender empathy. Amazing how 'impossible' that can seem in the heat of the moment.

So ALGOL can definitely indicate the likelihood that one, or both might 'lose their heads'. I think it's almost a purely emotional state; ALGOL can remind us of the tendency to forget our logical rationale and react with explosive, gut instinct over reason -- and even true empathy. We can be blinded by our emotional reaction so severely, we don't see the other's perspective at all.

This is also involved in the karmic profile I have with my twin. Indeed, we suffered the inability to see each other's perspective and establish true empathy, leading to tragic consequences.

posted May 30, 2015 04:38 PM            

It's so interesting that these (especially Algol) have such bad reputations… but your example, Aubyanne, does show that it doesn't have to be negative exactly. I suppose anything can help you grow as a person, if you respond to it in a constructive way...

Perhaps Algol, like Hades, has been at least partly misunderstood?

(I noticed that I have Algol conjunct Eros (exact) natally. I hope that's not an overly bad sign )

posted May 30, 2015 05:35 PM            

The key with it is 'losing one's head' like the myth. It operates too instinctively, forgetting to incorporate logic. That can be a bad thing when really both are supposed to NOT be flying off the handle, making snap judgements.

In their case, my husband interpreted her statement as 'an ultimatum', when I immediately perceived it as her being more afraid of his leaving. So she was creating the exact circumstance she feared most. It took me getting them both to THINK which defused the situation.

My boyfriend and I have the opposite problem; we can't react instinctively or emotionally if we try. We approach everything with logic, pragmatism, and rationale.

To contrast our two relationships is a fascinating study in the variance of human behaviour.

She was concerned about ALGOL, too. And rightly so. But I think we both know now that they can experience profound, raw, intense transformation of their most wicked selves exposing their darkest sides IF they approach each other with love and understanding.

Otherwise ... 'Off with its head!'

Very ALGOL.

posted May 30, 2015 06:10 PM            

I just realised I must have been seeing what I wanted to see in my own chart. I actually have Hades retrograde at 29, conjunct Eros, not at 26. I'm so disappointed - I really wanted the exact Hades-MC conjunction because it seemed so promising with my career goals Oh, well.

But, yes, Algol on my MC. Perhaps I can make that work with ancient secrets, too, somehow…

posted May 30, 2015 07:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Petronilla:
I just realised I must have been seeing what I wanted to see in my own chart. I actually have Hades retrograde at 29, conjunct Eros, not at 26. I'm so disappointed - I really wanted the exact Hades-MC conjunction because it seemed so promising with my career goals Oh, well.

But, yes, Algol on my MC. Perhaps I can make that work with ancient secrets, too, somehow…

(Oh, and the man's NN is at 27 Taurus - right between the Algol/my MC and my Eros/Hades - but I don't know if that's too wide to count in any way.)

---

I kind of figured. I've got HADES at 29º TAU, and you didn't seem older than I am. This is ... curious, however. He's got NNODE at 27º TAU ... and you've got HADES at 29º TAU ...

Boy, is THAT familiar.

My twin ray (DEC '84) and I (OCT '80) have this same aspect. Let's say he wasn't ready to face his own dark side, or stare down his demons. Consequences have been 'tragic disappointment', as he once said.

You don't want ALGOL on your MC with HADES. One's enough. Both is ... complicated.

Someone once suggested that my karmic chart would have ALGOL on the MC. Considering that persona was a criminal profiler whose bizarre circumstantial expertise ended up serial murder whose signature MO were decapitation? Oh, yes. That fits.

Perhaps if you specifically studied the skull, or something having to do exclusively with the head separate from the body. ALGOL just doesn't seem to be able to evade that connotation.

I also have it opposite my MOON (1º) which is conjunct SHERLOCK and GRAVES. Seeing as I actually am a trained profiler, but later chose to apply it to crafting fiction, the connexion oddly works. My signature killers of the series I'm adapting for TV do have the MO of decapitation.

Not that it MUST have that connexion, but I've noticed if it's not literal, it's at least figurative. But it's there.

posted May 30, 2015 07:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Petronilla:
Yes, I see what you mean - it's interesting to think that the same person can behave utterly differently with two different people, triggering different parts of him. Is there something about the woman's natal that makes her 'very Algol' in a prone-to-lose-her-head kind of way?

---

I'd say that's the essence of human nature. Nothing in her natal, either. She's a double Virgoan with Cancer rising, actually. A packed 4H! Nothing about her is dominant in any fashion, so the ALGOL presence, I feel, is definitely the indication that she needs to delve, dig, and come a bit apart, in order to properly transform and become who she's meant to be. To evolve.

Not to bring up BDSM again, but it's never so prevalent as when examining psychosexual dynamics. We all fall somewhere on the spectrum of dominant versus submissive, but certain individuals will bring out aspects of one over the other.

My husband is 7 years my senior, and I cannot see him in a dominant light no matter what I do. He will always be my submissive. Period. It's just the way it is.

My boyfriend is 13 years my senior, and he was the first to inspire true stirrings of something approaching submission in my life. (At 30, so I was a wee bit behind the curve.) He's fully acknowledged these dynamics between us which are strangely hardwired, despite our mutual respect and admiration for each other. He just brings out the more ultimately feminine, even 'submissive' traits which were actually quite buried before that point.

My twin ray is 4 years my junior. We've always been two dominants fighting for control. Just how it is. He's never felt younger to me, and his dominant nature is just naturally present.

Now, take my husband and the woman he's dating, his submissive. Though he's actually 4 years her junior, she felt instantly submissive towards him; it's just a hardwired dynamic. Does she cause him to 'lose his head'? No. But the relationship does. From the very start, he's actually been quite absent-minded to the point of being hurtful and thoughtless. Despite his being her dominant, I had to wrench control away from him, with her coming to me in order to seek permission for certain activities and what-not. (It's been totally fine, though. He's actually submissive, with this relationship with her being his first real crack at dominance.)

In a way, I guess their D/s relationship was 'beheaded' by his mishandling it so egregiously, that I had to step in and remove him from being 'the head' of it.

When on earth have you heard that a Dom had to clear everything first with his Domme because he failed to show proper restraint and good judgement? Sheeez! And yet, within nothing short of 3 days of its beginning, I informed him that she and I would be handling the details from that point on. I even saw the bit of embarrassment on his face when he discovered that, I assume, something he thought was private had already been shared with me.

Think of ALGOL's basic nature, too. It's feminine. It's not just feminine, it's dominant. So, at the head of this thing, (the MC) in a very powerful position, almost like operating as president or CEO, is a dominant woman. Who's intimately connected to the man involved, being conjunct the SUN.

Of course, though Medusa was the one beheaded (by Perseus), we can still understand, through delineation, that the influences are all kind of wrapped up and mischmasched.

At its heart, their relationship is a wild, unrestrained, mostly blind and headless Frankensteinian monster, with the potential to destroy just as much as it can transform, even heal, and plumb the depths.

But it does so, because the seat of its power is actually feminine -- not masculine.

posted May 30, 2015 08:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Petronilla:

I just realised I must have been seeing what I wanted to see in my own chart. I actually have Hades retrograde at 29, conjunct Eros, not at 26. I'm so disappointed - I really wanted the exact Hades-MC conjunction because it seemed so promising with my career goals Oh, well.

But, yes, Algol on my MC. Perhaps I can make that work with ancient secrets, too, somehow…

(Oh, and the man's NN is at 27 Taurus - right between the Algol/my MC and my Eros/Hades - but I don't know if that's too wide to count in any way.)

---

When it comes to fixed stars, it's crucial to keep it a very, very tight orb. Some say it's okay to expand to 1º, but most don't even want to go beyond 0º30.

So his NNODE is definitely conjunct ALGOL, providing it's within 1º of conjunction. In the case of my twin ray, it is, but lord, has he been kicking and screaming anytime I've tried to help him delve, and learn to feel. Once upon a time, I figured we were going to take that journey, discovering the depth of human emotion together. Sigh. That was a pipe dream.

If your EROS and HADES are conjunct at 29º TAU, I'd say that's outside of the influence of ALGOL, definitely. EROS will carry more weight than HADES by far, but it's still too wide to consider a conjunction.

posted May 31, 2015 07:13 PM            

How would you interpret that Hades meets North Node meets Algol part in your charts?

I must apologise in advance, as I will probably have to reply to this in bits and pieces; I may be called away at any moment, and you've given me so much to think about again. So the following will probably be very choppy!

But wow, you're definitely a woman after my own heart Criminal profiling is utterly fascinating. I suppose that's a bit similar to what I'm doing in historical research, too… seeking to know the unknowable. And truth never gets old, justice never gets old - that's probably the main drive behind my own research. (Is that the Mars conjunct Pallas in Libra talking?!)

I wish you much success with the TV series! I'd love to hear more about it.

posted May 31, 2015 07:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I wouldn't bother with Waldemath, to be honest. In all of the research I've done it's come up very ... meh.

Have you explored the true and mean BLACK MOON LILITHs, however?

---

Yes, I have, a little bit. I was even a bit disappointed that my BML(s) don't seem to do anything much in my chart at all, as I like to think of myself as an independent-minded woman Until I discovered the quindeciles, that is: I now realise that my Mean BML is quindecile Hades (exact). Well, well…

posted May 31, 2015 07:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Not to bring up BDSM again, but it's never so prevalent as when examining psychosexual dynamics. We all fall somewhere on the spectrum of dominant versus submissive, but certain individuals will bring out aspects of one over the other.

---

Yes, I agree. Very interesting what you told about you and the people close to you. I do hate to sound like I'm saying it's some kind of a biological imperative, because I don't like to think of human psychology in those terms, but it does seem as though there's some kind of a natural order: dominance and submission only come out in relation to different individuals, don't they? I'm thinking of a pack of dogs or wolves here… the dominant dog is only dominant in relation to those around him, if they accept him as the dominating one.

Then again, dogs are born with dominant/submissive traits, too, or at least those come out very early in their puppyhood… but I digress.

I wonder if we can ever truly know where we, ourselves, land on the spectrum. It might be easier to analyse others in this respect. Speaking of myself, I always think of myself as a shrinking violet, always apologetic and trying to appear non-threatening, and it comes as a surprise to me how often people think of me as intimidating. Then it occurred to me that despite trying to come across as non-threatening, I generally do get my way with little effort, if I need to influence people in some way. So perhaps I'm a quietly dominant sort

And yet I tend to think of female sexuality in terms of submission - giving in and giving up, in equal measure - which probably explains why I'm still completely inexperienced in my 30s. It all seems so wrong, so 'alien', somehow. Like a vaguely ridiculous fantasy world where I have no place at all, beyond being seated alone in a corner with my nose buried in a book. I just can't reconcile the idea of wanting to submit with my staunch refusal to submit even an inch of my integrity, ever.

Wow, this seems to be a day for major oversharing, hehe.

posted May 31, 2015 08:32 PM            

I'm going to enjoy getting to know you, I can tell it already. It seems we are much alike. A bit too much to delve into just at the moment, but that's as fine a start as any.

posted June 01, 2015 10:41 AM            

Re: the time period: late Mediaeval. A rather specific area of study, but I'm afraid of being more specific here, as I'm paranoid about being recognised - I've run into my friends online in the strangest places, and I really wouldn't want them to know about my submissive fantasies and the like