posted June 20, 2015 01:27 PM            

If you ask me, however, this is the very essence of karma: completely opposing views, lifestyles and approaches are being put together with the promise of bliss and fulfillment dangling before them. 'Ohhh, Scorpio VENUS: can you learn to live and let live and not take things so seriously? Ohhh, Sagittarius MARS: can you see the value of loyalty and emotional intensity?'

They may be frightening prospects at first, the blending of such energies alien to one another, but the mere fact that they are closely together, in what would normally be considered a conjunction, shows that these are areas that have been attempted and failed in other lifelines. So that you're both here, now, to work through them, hoping the circumstances and right, and the disparity can be left behind once and for all, in the spirit of true union.

posted June 20, 2015 03:13 PM            

See that's what I thought. Scorpio and Sagittarius are so different that blending them together seems daunting, and yet there is that conjunction that suggests a possibility of seeing eye-to-eye from such different points of view. It's...interesting.

I believe they are parallel if counting 2 degree orbs. My Venus is at a 22° 3'38" S declination and his Mars is at a 20° 5'57" S declination.

I've experience a conjunction with a Scorpio Mars so I know what an in-sign conjunction feels like. It was very direct energy, no question about it.

posted June 20, 2015 05:29 PM            

So, as to the orbs, there's a reason why we keep it so insanely tight. But it takes understanding a bit of how the conversions work to get the logic behind it -- which is way beyond the scope of this comment. Nonetheless, let's use the handy-dandy conversion tool available, since yours are within its bounds. (Otherwise you'd have to calculate outside of it, and that is SO not fun.)

Okay.

22ºS03 = 10SAG45.
20ºS05 = 29SCO39.

posted June 20, 2015 05:41 PM            

20ºS05.

19ºS05 - 21º05 will be the range of consideration, to be extremely rough with it. But here's where declination precision gets really, really crazy.

The range of our concern runs like so:

19ºS05 = 25ºSCO17
21ºS05 = 04ºSAG44

Wow, right? That's essentially ten degrees scrunched into a single minute of arc.

So, precision counts more here than it does anywhere else else, really. Sure, we can fudge a degree here and there when considering an applying asteroid conjunction, for example.

But declination? Nooooo siree, Bob!

This is also why, presuming your VENUS is at 29º SCO here, that a parallel can extend far beyond the assumed conjunction. We're not going to typically consider a conjunction, out-of-sign, to 04º SAG. But when they're in parallel, sharing a declination, there's a special link that goes beyond the longitudinal relationship.

posted June 20, 2015 06:47 PM            

I confess that I did make a mistake with the conjunction orb. I added too many dwarf planets in our synastry so the aspect grid was too tight to show the proper number.

The conjunction is at 3°41a orb.

My Venus is at 28°51' 2.

His Mars is at 2°32' 2.

Not tight, but maybe a whiff of something. Just a slight hint of pheromones? Wishful thinking on my part. It's probably not strong enough.

posted June 20, 2015 09:18 PM            

I'm not sure I quite grasped it until I saw this:

29N59 = 16° TAU 59
30N00 = 16° TAU 56

Now, you'll immediately notice the backwards 'motion' of the degrees along the zodiac, as the declination progresses forward.

But what stunned me was the 3:1 ratio. How 3 minutes of arc are sandwiched between a single minute of declination. Conclusion? The conversion rate is much faster than our usual 1:1. Literally, thrice to quadruply fast. (As some are actually 4' rather than 3'. Every other one, in fact.)

Let's take my boyfriend's EROS to my PSYCHE, which are parallel -- but a touch widely so. It'll help explain a bit more as to why declinations have their own longitudinal degrees in the zodiac, but they aren't always the same as the point's actual placement. Take my SUN at 19°LIB13. Its declination, 07S32, is oddly spot-on. However, my PSYCHE is 19N04; its correlating longitudinal degree is 25°TAU12 -- but it's placed at 20° GEM 49.)

(As to why it's sometimes right on and, at others, a bit off or even in an adjacent sign, I can't say. I'm sure it's intensively mathematical and beyond my limited comprehension. Heh!)

So, my boyfriend's EROS is 28° ARI 56, with declination of 18N29, placing it at 22°TAU51, longitudinally speaking.

Putting it together:

22° TAU 51 | EROS
25° TAU 12 | PSYCHE

... regardless of the actual degrees. By declination, there's the equivalent of a 2° conjunction, give or take several minutes.

That's why there's often a 'hidden relationship' between points that's revealed by declination. Most famously, perhaps, in terms of antiscia. As to what it means? I can share my personal experience.

My PSYCHE is conjunct his VALENTINE (1°) and a point central to our karmic / multidimensional history: MADHATTER. It's a major stellium, in fact, crossing from 17° to 19° Gemini, even involving one of my name asteroids; which is wonderful, as it's with VALENTINE.

But the fact its declination gives it relationship to late Taurus is a bit eerie. The other major stellium is mid-latter Taurus, containing a wide stellium of his spanning from 14° to 19° Taurus, conjunct my CHIRON, right in the middle at 17°, which is also square my NODES, and thus my 'karmic skipped step'.

What to make of the relationship takes some thought, and there've been many helpful theorists. Some call it a 'hidden agenda' for the longitudinal points, claiming the degrees on which the declination falls can provide a means of solution, or to operate as a 'bridge' between what is otherwise not linked by aspect.

I have to say, I've found that to be the case, in my experience. There is definitely a resonance and relationship between his Gemini and Taurus stellia which is not strong enough to be expressed by a loose semisextile, and can't be merely through my sidereal PSYCHE falling at 26° Taurus. It's another hidden relationship, but how the tropical and sidereal operate in karmic and multidimensional synastry is altogether different.

Besides, there's a definite means by which it's all somehow related to his EROS and my PSYCHE. And nothing has really come about to show a relationship as strongly as the parallel does, by the way it 'bridges' so much behind-the-scenes.

posted June 20, 2015 11:38 PM            

Alas, I think I must continue to study the orbs, the signs, and the houses before I can get deep into declinations. I learn in a sporadic, non-linear way. I tend to skip ahead and get into the juicy parts first and learn the details piece by piece of the rest of the puzzle later on. Is there an orb table you can recommend?

posted June 21, 2015 12:50 AM            

I wrote that and immediately went, ' ... and her head just exploded. Nice job.' It was an afterthought in which I realised, oooooh this is probably not the level of your present understanding. So, legitimate apologies.

Astrology is vast, UNBELIEVABLY so.

Do get a hang of the basics, and explore declination early, as it'll provide you with the ability to synthesise sooner than most do. And it's not that daunting of a subject.

posted June 21, 2015 01:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aquarian Moon:
Is there an orb table you can recommend? ... I have my Sun parallel my Pluto at under one degree in the declination. In my natal, the conjunction is a wide 9 degree orb.

---

That's the sort of thing that brings us to consider wide conjunctions. The parallel. And the reason for it is due to the hidden relationship the points share via declination. 9° is quite wide for an outer planet (PLUTO) conjunction, but the presence of the parallel binds them. Karmically, you're less here to take on present issues having to do with others dominating your personal power, and where your identity can suffer from such domineering power plays. Instead, it's a test to ensure you HAVE mastered the lesson and can truly hold your own in this way.

As for orb tables, I highly recommend learning moiety. That's a great way to approach it, even though it's variable.

There remain a few hard and fast rules, however: for asteroids -- 0°-3°. If related by declination, I personally will expand to 4° at absolute max. But that's because of the potency of a superconjunction in my experience.

And the following is even quicker n' dirtier than before:

CONJUNCTION : 8° (standard) 10° (karmic) 12° (wide)
OPPOSITION : (same)
SQUARE : 6° (standard) 8° (wide)
TRINE : (same)
SEXTILE : 3° (standard) 5° (wide)
QUINCUNX : 2° (standard) 4° (wide)

And some minor aspects that can be very useful:

SEMISQUARE : 2°
QUINDECILE : 2°
SEMISEXTILE : 1°30
QUINTILE : 1°30
SEPTILE : 1°30
NOVILE : 1°

posted June 22, 2015 05:23 AM            

I've got Venus at 29 Sag... being so close to the end of a sign means out-of-sign conjunctions are not uncommon for me. I also have Moon at 29 Cancer, Saturn at zero Virgo, and Jupiter at zero Cancer. I can state with absolute certainly that they out-of-sign aspects in general ‘work’. Because of how many planets I have at the beginning and the end of a sign I’ve had many synastry experiences of this, plus I can feel the natal aspects in my chart that are out of sign but very tight.

Getting back to Venus and Mars…

I had a big crush in high school on a guy that had Mars in early Cap conjunct my Venus. At the time I felt I was really attracted. I also had a female co-worker that I really got along with who had Venus in very early Cap conjunct my own Venus in Sag. Even though I’m a Cap Sun I tend to like brighter and lighter colors, she on the other hand once made a point of showing me a painting she really liked because it had ‘dark colors’ in it. We had an affectionate friendship (Venus conjunct) but there were some differences in our artistic taste. Our Venus positions may have functioned differently but they were still touching each other, and still felt.

Celeb Keith Urban has Mars in early Cap conjunct my Venus and I’ve always thought he was such a handsome guy.

I wouldn’t ever discount out-of-sign aspects, especially if they are very close in orb. I don’t think the dividing line between signs stops the planets from reaching each other if they are close to the same location. Aspects aught to be tight though, like under 3 degrees of orb.