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Author Topic:   Draconic conjunction - tropical overlay
Selene
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posted August 19, 2015 07:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The situation:

my dr.Venus - Saggitarius 10'02
his dr.Mars - Saggitarius 9'49
his N. ASC - Gemini 11'53
my N.Mars - Gemini 14'07


my dr.Mars - Leo 9'46
his dr.Venus - Aquarius 9'26
my N.Jupiter - Leo 10'05
my N.Moon - Leo 13'21
his N.Moon - Aquarius 14'32
my N.Eros - Leo 12'28
his N.Psyche - 11'44


The question - do the exact draconic aspects of Mars and Venus (conjunction and opposition) are felt on their own or only through the filter of the natal planets/asteroids that are near the same degrees?


Does these aspects in draconic chart show the relationship we may have had in our past lives?

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Rosalind
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posted August 19, 2015 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rosalind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont have experience with draconics but wait for FAITH. She is the expert. A wonderful astrologer.

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Faith
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posted August 19, 2015 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aw Rosalind, I'm no expert, I just strongly believe in draconics. But thanks

quote:
do the exact draconic aspects of Mars and Venus (conjunction and opposition) are felt on their own

Yes they are felt on their own. There does not have to be a draconic-to-natal conjunction.

quote:
...or only through the filter of the natal planets/asteroids that are near the same degrees?

Whatever planets, angles, and asteroids overlap the draconic conjunction will have special importance and enhanced meaning.

So for example, an ex's draconic Jupiter is conjunct my draconic Mars. That would just be a bit of excitement, cooperation, inspiration...

But because that conjunction landed right on my IC and my own name asteroid in my chart, the significance took on larger proportions. It felt like that situation, that excitement, was my HOME (IC) and where I was meant to be.

Just looking at "the situation" you presented, I do think there is enough right there to explain your interest...your draconic Venus conjunct his draconic Mars on his tropical DSC is going to create and sustain attraction (if romance is possible.)

The fact that you have Mars-Venus contacts both ways is highly meaningful, and the involvement and overlap with your luminaries shows that you are both going to be more genuinely and fully invested in the physical side of the relationship.

Does that match what you are feeling?

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Aubyanne
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posted August 19, 2015 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I must respectfully disagree.

We're not given the Draco outright. We have to work for it. To that end, Draco aspects are absolutely lovely gifts which we have truly earnt as a result of our dedication to our soul's path.

I agree in that they are felt separately, on their own, yes. But they are not felt outright or immediately. Their nature and expression is not a given -- it's a reward.

As you truly incorporate the nature of your dVENUS, treating it as though it were your tropical, you are orienting yourself to its abilities, talents, and strengths. We don't want to develop the 'weaknesses' of our Draco points; we want to consciously elevate ourselves beyond those hangups, issues, and hindrances.

Likewise, as he is able to embody his dMARS, will you find yourself responding to it at the dVENUS level in a way that is profound, elevated, and truly magical. This is the mundane masculine and feminine experienced at the level of the divine; a preview into what lies ahead, once karma is cleared, debts are paid, and you are operating as your most enlightened selves.

It's beautiful to behold and worth working for.

Now, you asked an even better question. What happens when you have a tropical point near them? This makes the aspect transdimensional, anchoring it in the present lifeline, through the nature and energy of the tropical point.

Have you ever tried to drive stick after having learnt on an automatic? Manual is a completely counterintuitive way to drive when you've never had to operate a clutch before. Having to remember just when to engage the clutch, shift gears, and properly power the engine is daunting to any student driver, and even complicated for an experienced one first learning.

It really, really helps to have an experienced manual driver operating the clutch, as you learn to shift gears -- working in tandem to ensure that the engine is working efficiently, getting just enough to accelerate and not to stall out.

This is the nature of the tropical point in a transdimensional aspect -- be it sidereal (bringing in karmic influences from a 'past' lifeline) or Draconic -- working to elevate our present influences and conditions to where they are most aligned with our soul's path. It aids in the complicated work of having to do what we don't yet know how to -- but are learning.

Thing is, unless you do have something occupying 7º-13º Sagittarius, there won't be this 'helper' influence creating a 'bridge' between the two systems. It needs something direct to anchor it in the present lifeline -- in my experience.

Granted, I haven't explored this in terms of oppositions yet. Perhaps the better way to look at it would be his DESCENDANT which is 1º conjunct your dVENUS and his dMARS?

Then through his lens of relationship -- and his concept of commitment -- these energies can be expressed, 'brought down' on the mundane level, so long as their elevated nature is never neglected.

We must delight in the presence of angels, offering proper respect to their song, and enjoying their heavenly gifts. We cannot expect to change that song to fit our concept of beauty in the present, or question the practical nature of their gifts. Or -- far worse -- clip their wings, because none of us can fly. (Yet.)

Follow?

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted August 19, 2015 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm

From experience I believe that draco-to-draco conjunctions have power regardless of whether or not they are anchored to the tropical.

For example, I have dr Sun conjunct dr Sun with someone, at a degree that is not especially active in either tropical chart.

Our relationship has been incredibly transformative for me.

ETA: But I guess you are saying, if that is the case, it's only because we've each individually worked to attain some of the power of our draconic suns? Should we all include this caveat when we attempt to translate draconic charts?

Also...sorry for all the questions...

If we have a tropical-to-draco conjunction, is that also only meaningful *if* the draco person is far enough on their soul path to really embody those traits? Or does the tropical person "activate" the draco person?

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted August 19, 2015 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Thing is, unless you do have something occupying 7º-13º Sagittarius, there won't be this 'helper' influence creating a 'bridge' between the two systems. It needs something direct to anchor it in the present lifeline -- in my experience.

Could transits anchor draco-to-draco, at least temporarily?

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted August 19, 2015 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In suspense!

It's been five minutes since my last edit above....where are you Aubyanne, I'm dying without answers....

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Aubyanne
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From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
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posted August 19, 2015 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gah! Sorry, Faith! I had an appointment, and I've been trying to catch up since.

Transits to Draco-to-Draco is a very intriguing thought -- almost like a preview; a 'test drive'. Yes, I can imagine that certain transits could activate the energy. We'd keep the orbs very tight for outer planets, but widen them for inners -- and asteroids, especially.

For example, tVALENTINE could ignite a Draco conjunction, I'd think! I'll have to explore this!

Great idea.

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted August 19, 2015 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi! Sorry for pestering you.

I'm obsessed with draconic charts...it's just plain weird.

I will check the transits for when it was most intense with my friend whose dr Sun is conjunct my dr Sun.

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted August 19, 2015 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh and the timing...it's always so lovely...I didn't plan it this way but...

Transiting sun now ~ 26 Leo
My draconic Jupiter 26.01 Leo

My draconic sun 25.47 Taurus
Friend's draconic sun 28.18 Taurus

We haven't talked for a while and maybe that's partly because Saturn has been opposing those dr Suns?

The slowest moving "thing" that could have anchored our draco-selves is the transiting node, which was opposing our dr suns when some of the most mind-blowing stuff happened.

Saturn in Scorpio has seemingly had the effect of disabling communication, though it could have been other things.

(Edited for stupid mistakes )

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted August 19, 2015 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I'm sorry for derailing Selene.

I'll make another thread.

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Selene
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posted August 20, 2015 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Aw Rosalind, I'm no expert, I just strongly believe in draconics. But thanks

Whatever planets, angles, and asteroids overlap the draconic conjunction will have special importance and enhanced meaning.

So for example, an ex's draconic Jupiter is conjunct my draconic Mars. That would just be a bit of excitement, cooperation, inspiration...

But because that conjunction landed right on my IC and my own name asteroid in my chart, the significance took on larger proportions. It felt like that situation, that excitement, was my HOME (IC) and where I was meant to be.

Just looking at "the situation" you presented, I do think there is enough right there to explain your interest...your draconic Venus conjunct his draconic Mars on his tropical DSC is going to create and sustain attraction (if romance is possible.)

The fact that you have Mars-Venus contacts both ways is highly meaningful, and the involvement and overlap with your luminaries shows that you are both going to be more genuinely and fully invested in the physical side of the relationship.

Does that match what you are feeling?


Thank you!

Actually yes, i do feel that way. It is still very new, but we can't get enough of each other. It's like i want him and now, please.

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Selene
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Registered: Apr 2013

posted August 20, 2015 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I must respectfully disagree.

We're not given the Draco outright. We have to work for it. To that end, Draco aspects are absolutely lovely gifts which we have truly earnt as a result of our dedication to our soul's path.

I agree in that they are felt separately, on their own, yes. But they are not felt outright or immediately. Their nature and expression is not a given -- it's a reward.

As you truly incorporate the nature of your dVENUS, treating it as though it were your tropical, you are orienting yourself to its abilities, talents, and strengths. We don't want to develop the 'weaknesses' of our Draco points; we want to consciously elevate ourselves beyond those hangups, issues, and hindrances.

Likewise, as he is able to embody his dMARS, will you find yourself responding to it at the dVENUS level in a way that is profound, elevated, and truly magical. This is the mundane masculine and feminine experienced at the level of the divine; a preview into what lies ahead, once karma is cleared, debts are paid, and you are operating as your most enlightened selves.

It's beautiful to behold and worth working for.

Now, you asked an even better question. What happens when you have a tropical point near them? This makes the aspect transdimensional, anchoring it in the present lifeline, through the nature and energy of the tropical point.

Have you ever tried to drive stick after having learnt on an automatic? Manual is a completely counterintuitive way to drive when you've never had to operate a clutch before. Having to remember just when to engage the clutch, shift gears, and properly power the engine is daunting to any student driver, and even complicated for an experienced one first learning.

It really, really helps to have an experienced manual driver operating the clutch, as you learn to shift gears -- working in tandem to ensure that the engine is working efficiently, getting just enough to accelerate and not to stall out.

This is the nature of the tropical point in a transdimensional aspect -- be it sidereal (bringing in karmic influences from a 'past' lifeline) or Draconic -- working to elevate our present influences and conditions to where they are most aligned with our soul's path. It aids in the complicated work of having to do what we don't yet know how to -- but are learning.

Thing is, unless you do have something occupying 7º-13º Sagittarius, there won't be this 'helper' influence creating a 'bridge' between the two systems. It needs something direct to anchor it in the present lifeline -- in my experience.

Granted, I haven't explored this in terms of oppositions yet. Perhaps the better way to look at it would be his [b]DESCENDANT which is 1º conjunct your dVENUS and his dMARS?

Then through his lens of relationship -- and his concept of commitment -- these energies can be expressed, 'brought down' on the mundane level, so long as their elevated nature is never neglected.

We must delight in the presence of angels, offering proper respect to their song, and enjoying their heavenly gifts. We cannot expect to change that song to fit our concept of beauty in the present, or question the practical nature of their gifts. Or -- far worse -- clip their wings, because none of us can fly. (Yet.)

Follow?[/B]


Thank you a lot! Yes, it helped much!

Actually really interesting thing you mentioned about sidereal. I just checked it out and it turns out HIS sidereal chart has many hits on my natal tropical chart whereas mine - not so much on his. What could that mean? I mean, there was definitely some kind of interaction between us in the past but was it one sided?

Here:

His Sid.SUN conjunct my tr.SUN EXACT
His Sid.Mercury conjunct my tr.Sun 2
His Sid.Moon conjunct my tr.Saturn EXACT
His Sid.Venus conjunct my tr.IC EXACT
His Sid.Jupiter conjunct my tr.Mars 2
His Sid.Saturn opposite my tr.Mars EXACT
His Sid.Uranus conjunct my tr.IC 1
His Sid.Neptune opposite my tr.Mars 1
His Sid. Pluto conjunct my tr.Sun 2
His Sid.DSC conjunct my tr.Pluto 1
His Sid.MC conjunct my tr.Uranus EXACT
His Sid.SN conjunct my tr.Chiron EXACT

pretty much heh

And from my side it's just

My Sid.Uranus conjunct his tr.DSC EXACT


And that's about all.

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Aubyanne
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From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014

posted August 20, 2015 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Selene:
Thank you a lot! Yes, it helped much!

Actually really interesting thing you mentioned about sidereal. I just checked it out and it turns out HIS sidereal chart has many hits on my natal tropical chart whereas mine - not so much on his. What could that mean? I mean, there was definitely some kind of interaction between us in the past but was it one sided?


I have that with my karmic soulmate. It's freaky. Though, logical. His tropical is mostly 30-45º ahead of mine, meaning lots of sidereal-to-tropical conjunctions between them.

My theory is that the tropical is 'carrying' some of the sidereal for karmic purposes. It's almost as if we're trying to understand them better by acquiring points in those signs here. Perhaps they did something we couldn't fathom, or for which we had no empathy. We couldn't 'get it'. Here, we're trying to do just that.

He's a bit hung up there, too, having brought his sMOON with him to be his SUN. 0º. And so is my twin, with his ASC being 0º30 conjunct.

It's easy to look at the patterns here and see why we've held onto these 'pieces' of each other, for lack of better. My karmic soulmate is keeping his karma very, very close to himself -- by incorporating his sidereal SUN into his tropical MOON. He's reliving a lot of his karma -- mistakes, 'previous' experiences in another lifeline -- by way of his childhood. Almost as if he needs to recreate a lot of his former 'profile', to get to some particular moment in which he can change course somewhere.

What's most fascinating is how this soul split into so many fragments -- most of which are significant in my life in some form: my karmic soulmate (ex producing partner, the 'false twin'), my husband, (companion soulmate / karmic partner), costar (soulmate), and another soulmate who genuinely found his twin flame through the growth and healing he did while working with me back in college.

I guess this soul had to split this way. And the 'signature' is that 4º-5º Sagittarius 'degree' which keeps repeating throughout. Hell, even another split soul, (but only into three) is part of THAT soul's overall group.

Are you confused as all get out yet? Bear in mind, it took me FIFTEEN YEARS to figure this all out! So. There's that.

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Aubyanne
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From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
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posted August 20, 2015 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW: sSUN conjunct SUN (0º) is a HUGE karmic marker. You're here to resolve the debt between you and release each other. This is most likely to be done here in the present. It's something you've been working towards in other lifelines. Think of it like this way: after this lifeline you'll be 'free' of each other, able to begin again in new circumstances, starting the cycle over again.

I've got this with my husband's girlfriend. We felt the karmic pull immediately. I can safely say it's the ONLY way we were able to find ourselves in this situation (as we're all straight, and there's no bisexual attachment anywhere). But she and I bonded pretty quickly, and then found we couldn't understand each other AT ALL and were holding the other at a distance due to past pain incurred by other people.

So we wiped the slate, and started to relate through what we both share: that 23º Virgo degree -- my sidereal SUN, her tropical.

Pretty frakkin' crazy.

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