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Author Topic:   NESSUS and DEJANIRA: The Potential for Transformative Relationship
Aubyanne
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posted August 28, 2015 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sometimes, we stumble into something more than we ever expected. I've been exploring the interpersonal energy of NESSUS and DEJANIRA in combination for awhile now. I found the following to be the most precise and thorough investigation of the two that I've attempted thus far.

Hopefully, this will help illuminate some of the darkest recesses of these two infinitely complex energies.

--

On its own, they're a powder-keg. Or more truthfully, the Pharmakon; in one dose, it heals -- but in another, it can kill. And vice versa.

The couple with NESSUS in aspect to DEJANIRA must understand they are each holding loaded guns trained on the other at all times -- and there will be moments in which it's extremely tempting to pull the trigger to save oneself from the burden of relating to the other. If it's soft, it's more likely to be loaded with blanks; but if hard, ohhhh, we'll say hollow-point.

Why do they bring this with them? Many reasons.

For starters, each's childhood is likely to be filled with resentments, disappointments, or downright abuses and violence. One, or both, may've not learnt how to properly forgive, and could be paying the price for familial cycles of abuse and violence in which they were embroiled and have much unresolved pain regarding it.

However, such a couple is likely to be returning with ghosts that echo from beyond their dysfunctional pasts -- into karmic retributions and unserved vengeance. These are spectres of abandonment and betrayal, haunting by way of violence, abuse, the ruthless desire to possess -- or destroy if possession is disallowed or refused.

Remember the loaded guns. Now know that the bullets are each marked with some previous unresolved pain: Abandonment, Betrayal, and Revenge (as it's always the last one; Atroposian, if we're to be mythic; that which cuts the thread permanently). The combined force of the power that propels them is anointed with the curse of 'I'll get you before you get me.'

This is NESSUS' ironic vow as he slipped into death's grip; it's DEJANIRA's desperate plea for the fidelity of her husband Heracles.

... and it was all a lie.

NESSUS and DEJANIRA are fascinating as interpersonal energy, as the basis of all that they do is deception, manipulation, and subsequent vendetta -- the promise of assured vengeance. NESSUS desires DEJANIRA to the detriment of her own psychological health; he is disinterested in whether his advances or obsession is requited. He simply takes without asking; demands to possess without consent or confirmed mutual desire to be so possessed.

She is only saved by extraneous circumstances -- in the form of her own husband Heracles, who seeks merely control of his wife, and kills NESSUS for declaring himself such ardent competition. However, DEJANIRA believes that her marriage could be beautiful, if only her husband were truly faithful to her. And so NESSUS promises his would-be victim that she shall have what she most desires -- only to proceed in exacting his revenge upon Heracles from beyond the grave. DEJANIRA soon discovers the depth of NESSUS' deception, which in turn terrorises Heracles with such menace he takes his own life to end it. DEJANIRA soon follows suit, overcome with her own grief.

What do we learn? What are the prevailing themes?

DEJANIRA is a victim; once a brave, powerful, beautiful warrior princess who has overcome unspeakable tragedy, she has succumbed to a marriage which appears excellent on paper, but is, in truth, just another from of control and abuse.

NESSUS is a product of abuse. He has never been taught civility and is unfazed by societal customs or even political paradigms. He is unhindered by social convention, moral implication or ethical consideration. Like an id on steroids, he possesses what he desires, with neither thought nor care to its consequences. He acts on instinct, and is equipped with a powerful, unrestrained drive to acquire whatever is sought.

We can't help but see how the two are gunpowder, ready to ignite.

Trouble is, were DEJANIRA savvy, confident, and unafraid, she'd never have been swayed by NESSUS' deceptions, as it required her own desperate desire to believe his lies, which allowed her to succumb to them, and tragedy to prevail. Further, were NESSUS civilised, ethical and principled, he would never have dared to acquire DEJANIRA by force, instead using his masterful manipulation to reveal the unfortunate truths of her miserable marriage. He would have become confidante, adviser, and, most of all, the one to illuminate the most uncomfortable and painful realities -- which DEJANIRA keeps to herself so as to continue enduring the status quo: that she is in an abusive dead-end situation in which she stays, rather than strives to be genuinely loved.

We would have a very, very different story.

So then, how do we do that, in the here and now? How do we operate with a courageous and savvy DEJANIRA, who refuses to allow herself to be victimised -- by anyone? How do we utilise the relentless drive of NESSUS, ruthless in pursuit of that which we most desire, while doing so in an ethical, considerate, and civilised manner?

Ahhhh. It's tricky.

In some ways, the very nature of each is what allows them to be what they are: The Victim and The Mastermind. It's only through the school of hard knocks has each graduated with so thorough an education that they were ready and primed to devastate each other -- and their lives (including whomever was in it).

The Victim has a few virtues: she has hope, and the power of belief. She will give the benefit of the doubt, at the cost of her own needs, ego, and safety. She is deeply devoted, and loyal -- to a fault, in fact. But she overlooks and forgives in service of maintaining harmony and upholding the status quo.

The Mastermind, on the other hand, often despises the status quo, and is forever seeking to bend it to his will, shaping and remaking it in the image of what he so desires. He is cunning and ruthless in his attainment of anything that he desires and realising his vision. He will stop at nothing, to manipulate, deceive, betray and beguile -- so long as he gets what he wants.

But just as we can find redeeming qualities of The Victim, so is The Mastermind capable of more than perpetrating evil in the name of conceit.

He is also untouched by criticism and praise alike; should he find himself devoted to a great cause or movement, societal perception is meaningless, and no matter of intimidation, fear of ostracisation or promise of retribution will deter him. He's already seen most of it and lives to tell the tale -- and solitarily, at that. Should a great artist or scientist be donned by The Mastermind, he will move mountains and change the world with the sheer force of his desire to manifest into being, or possess what he will not cease to have.

So, within DEJANIRA, we have the innate ability to overlook petty grievances and protect our greater interests. We can infuse our relationships with the dream of hope and a powerful loyalty, or be deceived, abused, and prefer to celebrate the status quo -- even material ideals -- at the cost of our own health and happiness.

We can choose whether or not to don the hat of The Victim or the Warrior Queen.

As with NESSUS, do we have the potential to perform -- dare I say, Herculean feats: requiring indomitable will, and the ability to stop at nothing to obtain our desired outcome -- be it a person or purpose. We can temper, but not destroy, this drive with civility, ethics, morality, and principles to guide our vision and its ultimate realisation.

Or we can suffer the greater consequences of succumbing to the demands of The Mastermind, where our perseverance is perverted into ruthlessness, and our will corrupted by the absence of empathy.

And that's what brings me to our final point. What is missing from NESSUS and DEJANIRA both: honesty, empathy, and the formation of proper boundaries. Were DEJANIRA not damaged, she would have been bold enough to leave her marriage. Were NESSUS not corrupted, he wouldn't have dared possess DEJANIRA without her consent.

Now, note that I said her consent. NESSUS still has little need for society and respect for its rules. Of course, he can become civilised. In which case, he would seek not only DEJANIRA's consent -- but her husband's as well!

Ahh, it's no mystery why we tend to find NESSUS present in relationships that challenge the status quo or convention in some way; pushing boundaries and taking great risks to obtain personal benefit. There must be a certain disregard for societal convention and the status quo in order to chance such things; one can't fear being made a pariah. The desire must be strong enough to withstand discouragement, disappointment, and even rejection.

And so the greater fault then would lay with DEJANIRA; her greatest lesson being to overcome her own victim mentality; to remember that she is a warrior queen, and behave as such. Not to be deceived, abused, and mistreated in any form.

In these newer, enlightened, and transformed states, the concept of NESSUS is an incredible force of will -- obsessive in his pursuit of DEJANIRA, a loyal and devoted warrior queen. He must simply remember the power of consent, as she, too, must never falter in the security of her own identity and its high esteem. Both must regard the other with respect and honesty. Games of manipulation will topple the whole house of cards.

Let's return to the loaded guns now, bearing in mind that both are assured of the other's loyalty, respectful of one another, and fear no abandonment by, or retribution of, the other.

It may be difficult to endure such a relationship; there's a great -- I'd even say, exceptional -- amount of trust that's required for its success. Both must not only trust each other, but themselves. We would only do harm to an enemy, but not a friend; and never our beloved. It's also no surprise why they appear so often in synastries where the couple is engaged in BDSM dynamics. This is an excellent way to explore such issues surrounding trust, loyalty, genuine (even unconditional) love, and fears of abandonment. Though DEJA must take care that her unconditional love never endangers herself, or her lover.

It may be tough, but then changing the world, leading by example, and implementing new paradigms -- never is easy.

But, as one with a strong NESSUS, who is terribly and helplessly in love with a man whose DEJANIRA is conjunct it (0°), I can say with absolute certainty that it's worth the risk of total transformation.

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Gabby
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posted August 29, 2015 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow!! Thanks for sharing this Aubyanne! It makes ally of sense and helps put my Dejanira/Nessus/Hercules relationship into perspective.

So Hercules was unfaithful to Dejanira? She was putting up with abuse from both sides Nessus and Hercules?

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Aurora_girl1990
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posted August 29, 2015 06:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aurora_girl1990     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Funny you should mention that Nessus-Dejanira usually appears in couples or people practicing BDSM with each other.

Remember my soul brother?Well we do do some BDSM and talk a great deal about it even though for now it's mostly online.

We have an exact square of Nessus conjunct Dejanira in the composite chart which stood out to me.

In synastry,if i remember correctly,his nessus squares my sun and nessus ,and conjuncts my jupiter/lust.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 29, 2015 07:19 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aubyanne,

I am VERY glad you pointed out that Heracles, the saviour, is not as heroic in a personal sense as we migh be tempted to project onto him. Ironically he wanted to have DEjanira just as much as Nessus did (and was not particularly concerned with HER feelings), but the difference is he married her first and thus redeemed himself in the eyes of society.
He also of course protected her from the bodily harm being raped by Nessus would have meant, however we do not know how much bodily harm he might have inflicted on his wife behind closed doors.
Or if it was "just" mental and emotional mainupulation, control and abuse.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 29, 2015 07:25 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ROFL

Just checked and incidentally Tr Heracles is conjunct my natal Dejanira by just 25 minutes of orb currently.

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mereiposa
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posted August 29, 2015 07:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mereiposa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I responded on my other post how it is effecting me currently. Our trine in composite is a lesson for me to stop being Dejanira here.

Interestingly, my progressed Nessus and Dejanira are almost conjunct each other, straddling my progressed IC and directly opposite my progressed Venus. How appropriate.

I sure hope these aren't lessons for the entire year.

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Orange
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posted August 29, 2015 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orange     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very well written, you have a way with words.

I started paying attention to these two asteroids ever since Ami Anne brought them here to this Forum a few years ago for the first time. Especially Nessus. and the immense obsession between people whose Nessus / Deja were aspected.

We do have them in our synastry and it does describe the dynamic of our relationship so well. Especially with Heracles in the mix. Reading your post was like reading my own story.

The funny thing is, we have all three of these asteroids aspecting each other in our synastry.
His Nessus squares my Dejanira, and his Heracles conjuncts my Dejanira (exact).
So, in a way, he is both to me - the Nessus and the Heracles.

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Aubyanne
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posted August 29, 2015 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Aubyanne,

I am VERY glad you pointed out that Heracles, the saviour, is not as heroic in a personal sense as we migh be tempted to project onto him. Ironically he wanted to have DEjanira just as much as Nessus did (and was not particularly concerned with HER feelings), but the difference is he married her first and thus redeemed himself in the eyes of society.
He also of course protected her from the bodily harm being raped by Nessus would have meant, however we do not know how much bodily harm he might have inflicted on his wife behind closed doors.
Or if it was "just" mental and emotional mainupulation, control and abuse.


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Aunt Anomalia
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posted August 29, 2015 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is having Nessus opposite Sun and Dejanira conjunct Moon in one composite potentially dangerous?

------------------
Anomaling around since 1911.

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Aubyanne
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posted August 29, 2015 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
Is having Nessus opposite Sun and Dejanira conjunct Moon in one composite potentially dangerous?

Depends entirely upon the situation and the people in it. How this energy is expressed.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 29, 2015 06:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just realized this, in our composite


DEIANIRA on 16 Gemini in 5th house making a Grand trine with
Pluto on 15 Libra in 8th and
Nymphe on 15 Aquarius in 1st

Additionally Deja is conjunct my natal Karma exact and Nymphe is conjunct my natal Moon by 2 degrees.


Then there is HERACLES on 14 Cap in 12th house, conjunct Venus at 1,5 degrees, and also Circe-Proserpina. It also is quinkunx DEJANIRA of course.


dEJA is quinkunx Heracles and also MC, almost a Yod, just we do not count angles in a Yod I supose.
However Deja is also opposite the Mercury-Neptune-Sappho conjunction from 15-17 Sagittarius in 11th house.


Now NESSUS the usual suspect, but he is not doing much, just brooding away on 8 Cancer in 6th house, okay EXACT on the hypothetical planet VULKANUS, and on the Sun/Moon-mp-axis (far mp though) in that composite, but seriously? That is not looking like a nasty Nessus, not that I would WANT a nasty nessus. lol


But then - out of curiosity- I checed the DRACO composite

Not only is Draco composite ASC on 10 Cancer, and hence near tropical Nessus.

BUT Draco composite NESSUS is on 17 Sagittarius, conjunct tropical Mercury-Neptune-Sappho, and also opposes tropical composte DEIANIRA on 16 Gemini.

Well what should I think of THAT?

especially the Draco composite Nessus oppoing tropical composite Dejanira?


and sidereal composite Nessus is widely conjunct tropical composite Dejanira? (2°52)

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hypatia238
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posted February 07, 2020 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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hypatia238
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posted February 09, 2020 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Currently Transit Nessus is conjunct Tr Dejanira...

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Aubyanne
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posted February 09, 2020 02:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yay! Thanks for the heads up.

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hypatia238
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posted February 09, 2020 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Yay! Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks for starting this thread!

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Banana Boat
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posted March 31, 2022 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Banana Boat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Currently Transit Nessus is conjunct Tr Dejanira...

The whole world was about to be put under house arrest around this time. Interesting.

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sashavittoria
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posted April 01, 2022 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sashavittoria     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Banana Boat:
The whole world was about to be put under house arrest around this time. Interesting.

Wow, fantastic point.

Aubyanne, this is such an incredibly well-considered and well-written analysis. I'm so impressed and inspired, and have much to ponder considering your insights. Thank you so much for posting this, and for expanding my understanding of these asteroids beyond a merely black/white abuser/victim interpretation.

I've been unable to figure out myself what my own retrograde Nessus exactly conjunct someone's natal Venus/Lilith conjunction (exact) means (all Libra). Natally, my Nessus is unaspected in my 4th house and this guy's Venus/Lilith is also unaspected, in his 11th, but trines his North Node. I know I was his mother in a past life and had to abandon him, but that's just one of many lifetimes I've learned about.

quote:
Further, were NESSUS civilised, ethical and principled, he would never have dared to acquire DEJANIRA by force, instead using his masterful manipulation to reveal the unfortunate truths of her miserable marriage... What is missing from NESSUS and DEJANIRA both: honesty, empathy, and the formation of proper boundaries. Were DEJANIRA not damaged, she would have been bold enough to leave her marriage.

Strangely, I decided to end my marriage shortly after meeting this Venus/Lilith guy. My former husband was not directly or overtly abusive towards me in an intentional or malicious way (a la Heracles), but I certainly experienced his sometimes violent and certainly emotionally unstable behavior as a repetition of experiences with my abusive mother. However, there was no betrayal and the Venus/Lilith guy was totally above-board, although we both obviously wanted one another. Aaaaand soon I'll be going to school with him... BOUNDARIES is indeed the keyword here!

Natally, my Dejanira is conjunct my SN Cancer 12H, Heracles conjunct my MC in Pisces 9H. Meanwhile, there are loose conjunctions between this guy's Heracles (Virgo) and SN (Leo 9H), and between his Dejanira and moon (Scorpio 12H). His Dejanira squares his Heracles and nodal axis. So there is this repetition of Cancer/4th, Pisces/12th, and 9th house in common with all of them, and all playing along the nodal axes. I suspect some past life sh** went DOWN lol

I wonder if that Nessus-Venus/Lilith conjunction portends some BDSM exciting

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sashavittoria
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posted April 01, 2022 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sashavittoria     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, just checked synastry with my former husband and we have Nessus square Heracles, Dejanira trine Nessus, and North Node conjunct Heracles, plus a lot of aspects between the asteroids and personal planets... interesting... He experienced significant abuse in his life (his Nessus square his Nodes) and our relationship was very healing for him. Chiron trine Chiron.

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Sinder
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posted April 01, 2022 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sinder     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Banana Boat:
The whole world was about to be put under house arrest around this time. Interesting.

What happens when they are together?

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