posted September 11, 2015 12:38 AM            

I'm looking at a midpoints report on Solarfire for a composite, and it seems likely that it is pretty accurate, although I'm kinda hoping it isn't... It indicates many disappointments and grand schemes which amount to nothing, characterized by Neptune on the Jupiter/Ascendant midpoint as well as the Jupiter/North Node midpoint... the Ascendant is also on the Jupiter/Neptune midpoint: "your general approach to the c world is dreamt and fantastical, and you are known for big expansive plans that are not realized. You inspire others with your visions but with little gain for yourself"

... the more I look at midpoints the more impressed I am by their significance, but I'm a total newbie and haven't even figured out how to calculate them in my own chart, or identify synastric midpoint conjunctions... I'd love to get better versed in the whole thang.

posted September 11, 2015 06:33 PM            

How about natal-composite midpoints? Probably quite telling also

posted September 12, 2015 07:17 AM              

I have the Saturn/Neptune and Saturn/Node both on 28 Virgo, Mars/Saturn on 26 Virgo and Saturn/ASC on 27 Virgo, esp. the Mars/Saturn clearly triggered by my Sun on 26 Sag.

However, despite all the negative implications with these (and yes I did feel the somber mood, my sa Moon has JUST passed the Saturn/Neptune-mp by one minute), I also noticed that they seem to always be triggered in events that have TANGIBLE results, and often enough surprisingly good ones.

As for natal planets on composite midpoints, I have not yet checked those, but maybe those midpoint energies crystallize on our natal planets, we sort of become an embodiment of these, and this reflects back into the relationship?

Let`s say a woman`s Venus is exactly conjunct the composite Sun/Venus-mp, it might be that she becomes the embodiment of these energies, which makes the other partner relate to her even more lovingly, as he participates in the Sun/Venus-experiences through connecting with that personal part of herself. Do you get what I mean?

I have to check Solar fire too for this.

EDIT
I do think however it is most prominent if a natal planet is 4th harmonically aspecting a composite planet within close orbs, and that composite planet is part of a midpoint(pattern).

posted September 12, 2015 12:11 PM              

I would count nodes, yes.

So the Node of the composite is in close 4th harmonic aspect to the Venus/Mars-mp (close orb meaning 1°00 to 1°30 MAX)?
seems like the purpose of the relationship is to give expression to the sexual energies of Venus and Mars (or alternatively creative energies). This is tied to one person`s path as well, so he or she might be very receptive to these energies.

However nodes are receptive energies, too, and I think there would need to be a planet in tight 4th harmonic aspect to it, for it to have enough energy to express these energies.

Is one of the partner`s personal planets or even outer planets in tight conjunction, opposition or square to the composite nodal axis (3° for conjunction and opposition, 1,5° for square)?
If so, this partner might sort of pull or push the relationship towards the path it is meant to be on.

BTW in midpoint astrology the nodal axis is seen as a point of connection and relationship, so any midpoint tied to it, characterizes the relationship itself (it makes sense if you think about it, after all the nodal axis is defined as the points where the path of the Moon intersects the path of the Sun, as projected on Earth, hence merging Moon-Sun-Earth together, now if that is not about relationship, I don´t know what is!)

So in this case the relationship is characterized by the merging of Venus and Mars, almost like having a conjunction of these. HOwever it is a passive conjunction - midpoints need some strong energy to be activated, so it should "wake up" through transits of important planets for example. or a natal planet (not a calculated point though, while they are all important, they do not have the energy to DO something, they just ARE. Planets are making things happen, or do something, and the angles magnify those actions. but there has to be an action (planet) for the angle to be able to magnify it, putting a focus on it; you know what I mean?)

So while I think theoretically that Node=Node=Venus/Mars-mp is VERY significant, it might lay dorment UNTIL a planet is triggering it (4th harmonic aspects, close orbs).

posted September 12, 2015 12:49 PM            

quote:

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Is one of the partner`s personal planets or even outer planets in tight conjunction, opposition or square to the composite nodal axis (3� for conjunction and opposition, 1,5� for square)?
If so, this partner might sort of pull or push the relationship towards the path it is meant to be on.

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posted September 12, 2015 12:53 PM            

quote:

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BTW in midpoint astrology the nodal axis is seen as a point of connection and relationship, so any midpoint tied to it, characterizes the relationship itself (it makes sense if you think about it, after all the nodal axis is defined as the points where the path of the Moon intersects the path of the Sun, as projected on Earth, hence merging Moon-Sun-Earth together, now if that is not about relationship, I don´t know what is!)

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posted September 12, 2015 01:32 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Ahhh... Thank you for explaining this. I had noticed that it was being interpreted this way and I wasn't sure why. I guess natally the North Node is about our entire relationship with the cosmos too then, eh?

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posted September 12, 2015 01:50 PM            

Yeah... I am still wrangling with the meaning of Saturn on the composite South Node... "refuses what it touches in a composite".. hmm I'll have to think about the meaning there...

The other party's Vesta is conjunct the Saturn, within 1 degree, opposite the composite NN too. Also, Saturn's Pluto is 3° off the composite South Node...

I feel like it's too heavy to continue in a positive way right now... (I am Vesta here). But the composite planetary geometry is pointing to the NN with a grand kite which is reinforced by a natal Juno etc etc etc. So I am trying to creak the code of the NN so that we can get on with learning this relationship lesson--but I guess it is just something which will unfold and reveal itself to a great extent.

Composite Venus is also on the composite Asc/midheaven midpoint, 1°37, and the North Node/Midheaven midpoint 0°13--

"you divulge and make known your innermost feelings and your affections and attractions. You talk about your relationship to the whole group"

posted September 12, 2015 02:04 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Do you think of the Asc as a calculated point? .

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I do not think of it as one, but it IS a calculated point.

Which is not downplaying its importance in anyway, in fact I view it as pretty much the most important point, oh well, maybe not most, but you can`t really overestimate its meaning, it is THAT important.

HOwever its importance does not change its definition, and that is that of a calculated point, as opposite/compared to a planet.

It`s defined as the point where the horizon(plane) intersects the ecliptic(plane). A calculated point just like the nodal axis, or the MC_IC-axis or the Vertex-axis, and none of these I would deem insignifant!

But they are different from what planets are, in fact the rising sign and the net of houses it produces (depending of course which housesystem you prefer) determines our frame of reference, how we experience the planets, which are of course up in the sky. It`s through the angles that we experience them on earth, letting them touch and shape our physical experience.

posted September 12, 2015 02:41 PM              

As for Saturn, well I think the rejection-restriction scenario is just as possible as the dedication-commitment scenario; curiously often they seem to go hand in hand (or in phases).

my Saturn is exactly opposing our composite Venus, and square our composite Pluto. I did the rejection-thing, or refusing or denial thing for a long time, but unlike when you are REALLY indifferent to something, it just wouldn`t disappear, something made me stick there with an almost obsessive NEED to find out what it`s all about, especially my defensity, I ust reacted TOO defensive, to dismissively (at least at first), I know myself well enough to realize that something was going on inside of me, and I was masking it as disinterest, which was some defensive mechanism on the basis of some sort of fear (my Saturn is in Cancer in 8th house).
The composite Venus falls into my 2nd house - this connection had pushed me to face my issues about self-value and esteem, especially as a woman (hence it had to be composite VENUS possibly).
The thing is I`ve always felt strangely valued by him, something I could not understand nor accept for the longest time.

Well it is a little complicated.

my natal Pluto/Chiron-mp is on 14.33 Cancer, too far off my Saturn on 16.57 Cancer; however I find it most intriguing that it is in wide opposition to the composite Venus on 16.01 Cap, and square composite Pluto on 15.14 LIbra naturally.
Plus my progressed Saturn has been progressing over it.

Well Sandbachs midpoint interpretations are most intriguing to me

Saturn=Pluto/Chiron
A fear of letting in messages from beyond, and of acting on them. A feeling that one is inadequate to do this, or does not know how to do it. But a sense that one MUST do it, and through patience and focus one WILL eventually do it.

(Saturn in the 8th house and ruling the 2nd house for me natally, it has to do EVERYTHING with how I relate to other people on a more intimate level, and prior to that with how I value myself)

When the composite comes into play

Venus=Pluto/Chiron
To be intensely and compulsively drawn to certain things which you need to embrace, for doing so will help you to connect to those energies which will optimize your evolution. Love expressed as a potent and transforming therapeutic force.

It seems very fitting; at the same time while he has not a planet on the mid cardinal degrees his Mars/Uranus and Jupiter/Uranus-mps are there.

So of course it means that synastrically my Saturn falls onto his Mars/Uranus and Jupiter/Uranus-mp, and at least initially he might have experienced me as always kind of pulling the brakes (which I did, honestly speaking).

At the same time however it means that the composite Venus falls onto his Mars/Uranus and JupiterUranus-mp.

c-Venus = his Mars/Uranus
One's love expressed in an assertively uninhibited fashion, which can possibly intimidate the loved one. One love's doing unusual things, or common things in unusual ways. A love of experimentation. One is assertively independent about one's values.

c-Venus=his Jupiter/Uranus
To fall in love very suddenly or quickly, but possibly to fall out of it just as swiftly. A love of anything speculative and/or experimental. To be drawn to people who are extremely independent. To love anything or anyone who has about them an exuberant freedom.

Quite a different response to the same composite planet, right?

and since he is not having any natal planet there, the whole midpoint picture pattern really rests on my poor vulnerable, fearful, defensive Saturn. lol

If I look up the midpoint made of our synastry

my Saturn= his Jupiter/Uranus
A desire to be freely enthusiastic about something, but holding back from doing so, possibly because one is unsure of how one's actions with be construed. A fear of going too far.

To wish to be uninhibited in one's actions, but to be shy about it or afraid of doing so. To act in an independent or uninhibited fashion, but to do so with caution and circumspection.

Oh do I not know how true that is?
I once called myself when describing this as his "very own walking ice-bucket-challenge".

I`ve brushed him off more times than I can count, and it`s only since I started valuing myself, that somehow communicating became much more constructive. Something which I had been obsessing about. I just had the feeling I HAD to put things right, to find SOME way to connect in a more constructive, direct, straightforward, honest fashing, that was NOT shadowed and masked by some hard understandable fear.

And yes, I think that was Saturn,t oo, he just does not let up, until you learn the lesson I suppose.

Interestingly Pluto/Chiron is a big one for us as it seems.

composite Moon is on the Pluto/Chiron-mp, too, composite Mars squares it.
While his natal Venus almost would have been on the composite Pluto/Chiron-mp.

But the composite itself:
Pluto/Chiron 22.31 Cancer
Moon 22.52 Capricorn
Mars 23.08 Libra

Moon: To experience feelings of great intensity, which, if given into, can lead to profound healing.

Mars: Action which has a deeply healing and transformative effect. Extremely intense impulses are felt, and need to be acted on, or else great stress might be the result. Spiritual forces are pushing hard at one to take the initiative to further evolution.

It`s inscribed in our composite. lol

Interestingly the DESC is conjunct his OWN Pluto/Chiron-mp by 0°37, right on my Priapus and squared by my Uranus.

I guess the push goes both ways somehow. Of course Pluto/Chiron is never an easy one to mess with.

And there we have in synastry his Pluto opposing my Chiron by 1°19, with his Pluto conjunct the composite NN (0°35) and my Chiron on the composite SN (0°44)

and suddenly a usually generational aspect does not look all that generational anymore.

sorry I got carried away a little. lol

posted September 12, 2015 02:56 PM            

Accessing the healing which is available in that relationship sounds very rewarding, to say the least... it's really encouraging to read that you feel the Saturn lessons within a relationship CAN be learned, and the hardship overcome, giving way somewhat at least to the rewards of working through what Saturn is pointing to (urging, requiring, demanding...). That's good work right there, methinks.

I'm interested in the interplay of Saturnian/Uranian energy... in part because I have the Saturn/Uranus conjunction natally, and I'm still working out the impliactions of that...

I'm glad you got carried away, that's what it's all about! I'm really interested to hear personal experiences with composite midpoints, that's where the learning happens, and the teaching, because after all, we know our own charts and relationships the most intimately... and when we give a window into our own personal learning/experiences we are giving a great gift of understanding to the astrological community as well... So cool how the personal becomes empirical and then back again...

posted September 12, 2015 03:03 PM            

quote:

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Venus=Pluto/Chiron
To be intensely and compulsively drawn to certain things which you need to embrace, for doing so will help you to connect to those energies which will optimize your evolution. Love expressed as a potent and transforming therapeutic force.

It seems very fitting; at the same time while he has not a planet on the mid cardinal degrees his Mars/Uranus and Jupiter/Uranus-mps are there.

So of course it means that synastrically my Saturn falls onto his Mars/Uranus and Jupiter/Uranus-mp, and at least initially he might have experienced me as always kind of pulling the brakes (which I did, honestly speaking).

At the same time however it means that the composite Venus falls onto his Mars/Uranus and JupiterUranus-mp.

c-Venus = his Mars/Uranus
One's love expressed in an assertively uninhibited fashion, which can possibly intimidate the loved one. One love's doing unusual things, or common things in unusual ways. A love of experimentation. One is assertively independent about one's values.

c-Venus=his Jupiter/Uranus
To fall in love very suddenly or quickly, but possibly to fall out of it just as swiftly. A love of anything speculative and/or experimental. To be drawn to people who are extremely independent. To love anything or anyone who has about them an exuberant freedom.

Quite a different response to the same composite planet, right?

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Indeed! I'm sure that helps with things feeling exciting and romantic, as well as serious and reluctant. Maybe adds an element of romance to the reluctance itself?...

quote:

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and since he is not having any natal planet there, the whole midpoint picture pattern really rests on my poor vulnerable, fearful, defensive Saturn. lol

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aha! lol... pooor 8th house cancer Saturn!! aw...

quote:

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If I look up the midpoint made of our synastry

my Saturn= his Jupiter/Uranus
A desire to be freely enthusiastic about something, but holding back from doing so, possibly because one is unsure of how one's actions with be construed. A fear of going too far.

To wish to be uninhibited in one's actions, but to be shy about it or afraid of doing so. To act in an independent or uninhibited fashion, but to do so with caution and circumspection.

Oh do I not know how true that is?
I once called myself when describing this as his "very own walking ice-bucket-challenge".

I`ve brushed him off more times than I can count, and it`s only since I started valuing myself, that somehow communicating became much more constructive. Something which I had been obsessing about. I just had the feeling I HAD to put things right, to find SOME way to connect in a more constructive, direct, straightforward, honest fashing, that was NOT shadowed and masked by some hard understandable fear.

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Yep, sounds like an important relationship for you, for sure! So beautiful to see this interplay. Midpoints really lend a depth to things, eh? The combined energies of several planets acting in concert like that is really exciting... (you know it well!).

posted September 13, 2015 07:56 AM              

BTW it`s not a relationship. Though of course we do relate to each other some way or the other. But of course that is true for all human beings.

It`s a connection, too, in which boundaries are strangely blurred, as it defies the usual categories. Something which btw is very Chironic as well, the blurring of boundaries, or maybe not blurring (that would be more Neptune), but the transition or even transcendence of those categories.

"cel the Saturn lessons within a relationship CAN be learned,"
Yes, though Saturnw ill NEVER feel like Jupiter, even if you express him in a mature way.
The seriousness and responsibility will always be a part of it, but it does not have to be cold, indifferent, fearful, insecure, suffocating etc.
There are healthier ways of expression.

Well Saturn is my current "subject" as seriously, it`s all over my chart at the moment and for the recent years.

Starting with the transiting Saturn squaring my natal Moon in 2013/2014, just following my pr Moon being conjunct natal Saturn.
While pr Saturn is slowly creeping up to my pr DESC (will hit in 2016).

Additionally Tr Uranus has been on and off squaring my n Saturn, Tr Pluto prepares to oppose it.

a few years ago (I think that is when the Saturnian times started) solar arc NEptune was opposing my natal Saturn, solar arc SN was conjunct it, followed by solar arc DESC conjunct the n Saturn.

and now I am looking forward not only to Tr Pluto opposing n Saturn, but solar arc opposing n Saturn, plus transiting Saturn will transit over all my planets in Sagittarius (Mars - 5°; ASC 7°; Neptune-NN 10°, Sun-Mercury 25-26° and Venus 6° Cap).

there is simply no way around Saturn for me at the moment. well it all started with the solar arc SN on my natal Saturn at the end of janury 2011, and it has not let up ever since. and it will not (at least not until 2022 or so, though of course through different aspects)
examining pretty much everything in my chart, and especially Saturn itself of course.

"I'm interested in the interplay of Saturnian/Uranian energy... in part because I have the Saturn/Uranus conjunction natally, and I'm still working out the impliactions of that..."
I think it needs to be tied to a personal planet or angle to be "personalized", unless it is really tight (under 2 degrees).
However Saturn/Uranus is probably not easy to deal with (I have the Saturn/Uranus-mp conjunct my Neptune-NN-conjunction btw).
Anyway there is a "Shall I stay or shall I go?" theme coming with it. The old, the status quo, vs. the new and unproven.
The old known path or the one noone ever walked on before?
Saturn/Uranus-people are always faced with this choice, which can make for considerable inner tension. They want to hold on to the past and to the things they know and at the same time want to go into the future, leave the past behind.

However there is the chance to discover really new paths, new discoveries, breeaking up defenses and structures and rebuild things in a more progressive way (Saturn/Uranus is a "breaking-up-point", not just in terms of relationship, can be that way, too though, but also shatters old structures, sometimes it is nasty, but sometimes it was needed actually).

posted September 13, 2015 02:08 PM            

quote:

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However Saturn/Uranus is probably not easy to deal with (I have the Saturn/Uranus-mp conjunct my Neptune-NN-conjunction btw). 
Anyway there is a "Shall I stay or shall I go?" theme coming with it. The old, the status quo, vs. the new and unproven. 
The old known path or the one noone ever walked on before?
Saturn/Uranus-people are always faced with this choice, which can make for considerable inner tension. They want to hold on to the past and to the things they know and at the same time want to go into the future, leave the past behind.

However there is the chance to discover really new paths, new discoveries, breeaking up defenses and structures and rebuild things in a more progressive way (Saturn/Uranus is a "breaking-up-point", not just in terms of relationship, can be that way, too though, but also shatters old structures, sometimes it is nasty, but sometimes it was needed actually).

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Yes... transiting Saturn is going to enter my 2nd house on or about September 17, which is the day I'm slated to take possession of a very unique property and I'm having some serious angst about whether this is the right path for me. But I'm reassured by Saturn's transiting into my 2nd house--as if now is the right time to be developing some real solid material assets and putting the work in there. It is not going to be your run of the mill land project that's for sure, lots of mold breaking going on every step of the way. I think I've handled the first house transit pretty well and now it's time to do this... see how it goes. I'm really sad to be giving up my beautiful home in the city but I think I built myself up there and am ready now for a challenge... I hope so.

So yes... i really identify with what you've said there about Saturn/Uranus-- that's very helpful, thank you...

In the composite with my partner Saturn is at 0 Sag, so it's our Saturn return right now and it's really intense given how young the relationship is. I definitely have the "should I stay or should I go" mentality almost 24/7... inner tension is right. I just found out that I have solidarity there and he has magnanimity (the asteroids). Makes sense.