posted October 11, 2015 09:50 PM            

Idk what placements may explain this. We both have 12th house placements, there is no such "fear". It just feels sort of weird to call someone "my" something.

Plus it is totally entertaining to dwell in our half-a-sed ambiguity and make others shake their heads at us lol.

posted October 12, 2015 04:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12muddy:
I don't particularly savour "labels", but I'm not against them either. In real life, I didn't call him my boyfriend back then. I seldom call him my husband now, except for in legal situations, like in court or in the hospitals..etc.. Marriage was the one fail-proof way which allowed us to stay together and stopped a-holes from interfering. We take full advantage of it. But we don't need to call each other "husband" or "wife" etc...To me and to him, they don't affect our feelings or affect the quality of our relationship.

Idk what placements may explain this. We both have 12th house placements, there is no such "fear". It just feels sort of weird to call someone "my" something.

Plus it is totally entertaining to dwell in our half-a-sed ambiguity and make others shake their heads at us lol.

And I sort of don't really get how refusing to put "labels" on relationships is a sign of commitment-phobia if they genuinely love and invest in their relationships.

---

I guess I should have named this something else, hmm.

I was using the words my friends were using (saying themselves they are scared of the pressures a label puts on, and therefore the commitment involved. Kind of like, they need to pretend it's NOT a commitment, even if they are committed, in order to be comfortable persevering -- does that make sense???)

I am a pretty out there person with my relationships - as in, I have zero to hide, and if I am hiding anything it's generally because I am not sure. But, I have venus and mars in my 1st house, positively aspected by my sun in my 12th. So, for me, if I love you - the world knows.

posted October 12, 2015 04:33 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Any idea why you keep going for a 12H VENUS, Cappi? Is it due to the tendency (or potential proclivity) to have relationships 'outside of the public eye' ? Or even to be conducted very privately, in some respect?

I'm not sure how that relates to commitment, however.

---

Hmmmm... well i've only been with one 12H venus (current guy). I have a 12H sun, so I wonder if it's maybe that?

Like, maybe deep down, I prefer it all to be private too? This is a genuine journey I am trying to figure out.

posted October 12, 2015 04:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Sounds like you're doing A-OK, then. (Save for the upper respiratory stuff. Hate that.)

Definitely take it all as it comes. We're all going to have certain transits that lead to -- occasionally -- similar things. But never as a general rule. I try to approach things as, whatever is going to come down, is what I most need at the moment.

So, my best advice -- again -- when you're dealing with some of the rougher transits -- is to hold on loosely, and let the river shift you in whatever direction you seem to be moving. There's usually a reason for it. <3

---

posted October 12, 2015 06:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12muddy:
I don't particularly savour "labels", but I'm not against them either. In real life, I didn't call him my boyfriend back then. I seldom call him my husband now, except for in legal situations, like in court or in the hospitals..etc.. Marriage was the one fail-proof way which allowed us to stay together and stopped a-holes from interfering. We take full advantage of it. But we don't need to call each other "husband" or "wife" etc...To me and to him, they don't affect our feelings or affect the quality of our relationship.

Idk what placements may explain this. We both have 12th house placements, there is no such "fear". It just feels sort of weird to call someone "my" something.

Plus it is totally entertaining to dwell in our half-a-sed ambiguity and make others shake their heads at us lol.

And I sort of don't really get how refusing to put "labels" on relationships is a sign of commitment-phobia if they genuinely love and invest in their relationships.

---

I am exactly like this, I never introduce him ( a bf) as my bf, but as X (his name) and I like the same, and I didn't like it otherwise. But I know and assume people know we are together, those in our entourage obviously know, and strangers too, it's hard to hide people are in a couple and into each other, even if a secret mutual crush, the others can see it much better than ourselves sometimes. Plus, we do couple things in public, so everyone knows, more or less, when seeing us (speaking in general).

But I am not sure what Cappi means here to be honest, what the situation is: not knowing how she stands with him (which is very unpleasant and shady IMO), him pretending not to be together in public while she wants to (equally unpleasant) or something else. I don't get the issue here.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted October 12, 2015 07:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I am exactly like this, I never introduce him ( a bf) as my bf, but as X (his name) and I like the same, and I didn't like it otherwise. But I know and assume people know we are together, those in our entourage obviously know, and strangers too, it's hard to hide people are in a couple and into each other, even if a secret mutual crush, the others can see it much better than ourselves sometimes. Plus, we do couple things in public, so everyone knows, more or less, when seeing us (speaking in general).

But I am not sure what Cappi means here to be honest, what the situation is: not knowing how she stands with him (which is very unpleasant and shady IMO), him pretending not to be together in public while she wants to (equally unpleasant) or something else. I don't get the issue here.

---

GAH, guys, this isn't about ME!!!

haha.

I keep stating this- I did in my initial post, too.

The background was I was talking to friends of mine ( girl friends) who had dated guys who dated them for lengthy time but never wanted to 'label' the relationship, as in, call them their girlfriend.

So they were curious about why this is something people do. And I thereby posted here wondering what kinds of placements would make someone otherwise committed (exclusive, wanting to continue seeing them, basically acting like a boyfriend) hesitate to commit fully to the definition as well.

In most circles, this IS viewed as shady and commitment-phobic. Like, they want the benefits of the relationship, without ever calling it a relationship.

So, to me, I established this in my mind as commitment-phobic as well,and wondered what kinds of placements make someone who otherwise does love people be so scared to call it a relationship/ call their partner their girlfriend or boyfriend. Wondered if it was a 12H thing.

THIS WAS JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY and NOT something I am currently living in my relationship. For the 100th friggin time. hahahah

posted October 12, 2015 07:35 AM            

Are you talking about secret relationships, or on and off relationships? A boyfriend to me is your "official" so. If he keeps the relationship secret or it's an on and off relationship, he is not their boyfriend and he realistically doesn't see himself as their bf.

Plus, when two people are in love, they usually like to scream it off the roofs somehow, to each other, or by the way they behave in public, in their own way, of course, especially the awesome lovers that men are at least this is my experience.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted October 12, 2015 07:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Cappi this is where you loose me, I don't get it. If the person acts like a boyfriend, if they go out together in their circle of friends and are a pair and everyone knows they are together, why do the girls need to hear it every day? It's important how he acts.

Are you talking about secret relationships, or on and off relationships? A boyfriend to me is your "official" so. If he keeps the relationship secret or it's an on and off relationship, he is not their boyfriend and he realistically doesn't see himself as their bf.

---

I actually like your take, it's just VERY different from the world I live in here.

For some reason among my friends... if someone doesn't call it a relationship outright, or call them their gf/bf (label it), then there's something wrong with it, or it's a lack of commitment.

I'm fascinated that so many people on this thread disagree actually, because it seems like the MOST popular viewpoint of thast is that the guy just isn't feeling it (I say guy, but I know girls who do this as well).

In my relationship, I have never had an issue with labeling it, but I agree with the views you guys have - that for me, it became a relationship on its own. No need for me to be like "So, are you my boyfriend now? circle yes/no." haha

So I guess perhaps it's more a discussion about what people actually consider commitment-phobic! It seems that way anyway.

It also strikes me as a bit of a limited view of relationships among my friends currently (we're all in disagreement here on this). I had one friend say that even if it's always positive, the guy has always been good to her, says he loves her, etc... if he won't call her his girlfriend she will break it off. Because it means something shady is going on.

^ That was the argument that caused me to post this thread actually. She, btw, has an Aries Venus in her 7th house. So maybe she's just super driven about her relationships and needs things a specific way to fully commit?

posted October 12, 2015 07:57 AM            

The general advice from psychologists and relational counselors is to give the relationship action time. Women are advised not to have these clarity discussions, if possible ever. Just to base their evaluation of the guy's interest and commitment based on his actions. Men are advised to back their persistent actions and interest by words too (declarations of love and so on, since women need the verbal part a lot too). Usually, these things do happen naturally though, if the two people don't have insecurity issues or are too young and inexperienced and if the relationship is indeed what it's supposed to be: a committed love relationship. The transition to becoming an official couple happens naturally, with a blending of actions and words (but not conflictual or demanding from one side)

Again, except for rare cases when someone is a hardcore bachelor (or someone is too young and keeps their options open due to age), most men really interested in a woman are very active in "monopolizing" her, by actions first, and also words. This is how you know they want you, love you, and are committed to you. So the commitment phobic label can't be generalized based on how someone acts with you, you need to see them doing this with everyone for most of their youth and adulthood to use this label.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted October 12, 2015 08:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
The problem is, especially with women, is that they think things can be talked out. It's a gender difference. Women, especially young girls since it's also a trend now, are very verbal creatures and believe things can be talked out. They go out on a few dates with a guy and then they have a "clarity discussion". While men show their interest by the way they act towards someone. As I said, they will try to "monopolize" you if they want to be your boyfriend. Men are generally put off by these discussions and labels. Women, for some reason, believe if the guy says something under pressure, as a result of such a discussion, it means something, while it doesn't. Of course, gender differences are blurring as we speak.

The general advice from psychologists and relational counselors is to give the relationship action time. Women are advised not to have these clarity discussions, if possible ever. Just to base their evaluation of the guy's interest and commitment based on their actions. Men are advised to back their persistent actions and interest by words too (declarations of love and so on, since women need the verbal part a lot too). Usually, these things do happen naturally though, if the two people don't have insecurity issues or are too young and inexperienced and if the relationship is indeed what it's supposed to be: a committed love relationship.

Again, except for rare cases when someone is a hardcore bachelor (or someone is too young and keeps their options open due to age), most men really interested in a woman are very active in "monopolizing" her, by actions first, and also words. This is how you know they want you, love you, and are committed to you.

---

Maybe I will just say all this to my friends, Lee... so well said.

I consider myself (to just fully make this thread about me afterall haha!!) really bad at relationships. I have no idea what's normal.

A lot of this is because I was raised with a really screwy relationship at the core of my life. My parents just celebrated their 37th anniversary... but I would say, for the majority of my life they've either not spoken to one another, or my mom was having an affair. (With a friend of our family, whom I knew well. I knew what was going on the entire time).

I have yet to find a perfect example of a relationship, so to ME what I think is 'normal' other people look at me sideways for.

For instance, I don't think cheating is awful and a deal breaker. I DO think deception and lying is ( to me these are very diff things ).

My idea of commitment is what you stated above - someone who just IS there day to day. Someone who makes you aware of his/her stability in your life whether or not he puts words to anything.

BUT when I made this argument - that a label doesn't make it any more committed - I got shot down big time. So I guess maybe I've had some internal struggle/ confusion about my argument. It's good to see these opinions here!

posted October 12, 2015 08:25 AM            

Yes, this is the thing, in my view: someone who is by your side, day by day, that is the boyfriend. He won't even give you time to question him or you or your relationship In the meantime, it's best to show or say from the beginning to your pretenders you are interested in a relationship, a boyfriend, in general (because there are so many scenarios now, and people may get confused). If you say it, say it from the beginning, only once, and never mention it again. Then just watch how the other's behavior towards you is what you want and like (or not).

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted October 12, 2015 08:55 AM            

I think that between the two people, if they're compatible and on the same wavelength, things would just happen naturally. There won't be such gnawing need for confirmation.

Sort of like a dance, one takes a step, the other takes a step. Eventually they dance their lives away. Or until the music ends lol.

posted October 12, 2015 08:57 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12muddy:
I'm a bit baffled reading the part where your friend said that if a guy wouldn't call her his gf, she'd break it off. But then again, her reactions could just be a results of her experiences.

I think that between the two people, if they're compatible and on the same wavelength, things would just happen naturally. There won't be such gnawing need for confirmation.

Sort of like a dance, one takes a step, the other takes a step. Eventually they dance their lives away. Or until the music ends lol.

---

posted October 12, 2015 09:07 AM            

Ugh.

posted October 12, 2015 09:32 AM            

This forum is fascinating to me - I realize you are all insanely perceptive people, and that stirs s*** up for me occasionally.

I've been working out my 8th and 12H placements a lot in the recent weeks and months. Today the new moon is in my 8th House, which I'm realizing is causing me to react in very guarded ways, even among my closest friends.