posted October 21, 2015 05:59 PM            

If people can have great synastry, a great composite, and great midpoints, is it possible for astrology to not indicate a close relationship when there is one?

Since there are cases where amazing synastry and composites get nowhere, my opinion is it must be possible for the opposite to happen. It must be possible for awful synastry, an awful composite, and no midpoint connections to exist in lasting, happy relationships.

I don't think astrology should determine whether two people are meant for each other. It's nice to interpret astrology in terms of a relationship, but in the end, if two people truly want to be together they aren't going to care if astrology says their relationship shouldn't exist or that one person must be unhappy because of X number of placements.

I know that most relationships are going to have some relationship indicators. I mean, my boyfriend and I probably have enough connections for you to see why we're together, but we don't have amazing synastry or an amazing composite. We don't have double whammies or excellent midpoints making connections with each others' charts. I feel like astrology doesn't capture the depth and real strength of my relationship.

So, I am curious if astrology can lack the evidence that a relationship is lasting and happy for both people.

posted October 21, 2015 09:29 PM            

Hi Lorena, what a fascinating subject. Astrology is an imperfect science. Obviously, there's more to a relationship than a great synastry and composite. In my first book, I wrote that there are two basic factors in a romantic relationship: 1. Potential Synergy 2. Willingness and availability to relate intimately. Synergy potential includes synastry, composites, mutual progressions, transits, numerology, Chinese astrology, Vedic astrology, Mayan astrology, etc.

"If people can have great synastry, a great composite, and great midpoints, is it possible for astrology to not indicate a close relationship when there is one?"

It's possible for interpretation to be imperfect. I believe that there are always indicators when something is manifest.

"Since there are cases where amazing synastry and composites get nowhere, my opinion is it must be possible for the opposite to happen. It must be possible for awful synastry, an awful composite, and no midpoint connections to exist in lasting, happy relationships."

Depends on how you define awful!

"I don't think astrology should determine whether two people are meant for each other. It's nice to interpret astrology in terms of a relationship, but in the end, if two people truly want to be together they aren't going to care if astrology says their relationship shouldn't exist or that one person must be unhappy because of X number of placements."

Agreed. IMO Law of Attraction and Free Will trumps everything.

"I know that most relationships are going to have some relationship indicators. I mean, my boyfriend and I probably have enough connections for you to see why we're together, but we don't have amazing synastry or an amazing composite. We don't have double whammies or excellent midpoints making connections with each others' charts. I feel like astrology doesn't capture the depth and real strength of my relationship."

Depends on what you mean by amazing. Again, astrology is not a perfect science.

"So, I am curious if astrology can lack the evidence that a relationship is lasting and happy for both people."

Sometimes the evidence is subtle and intricate. Nothing can negate manifested reality--and nothing manifests without precursors. Our understanding of the reasons why can be limited.

posted October 23, 2015 12:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:
i actually disagree. I think astrology usually plays out.

Of course you are not gonna hook up with every single person you have a great chart with. At the end of the day, your natal is the most telling. Because your relationships reflect your personal baggage, issues, problems and strength.

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yes. And sometimes due to the natal, the seeker on the path of life is eager for incompatibility!--read: challenging synastry with particularly difficult aspects... It's so varied and nuanced...

I like the idea that we can transcend astrology through desire/acts of free will/good will/positive thinking. But the ability to do so will usually be reflected in the chart (s) too--in several ways...

our minds are soo powerful and ive personally experienced being very affected by my bias in favour of astrology---deciding to see if acting as if it didn't matter could change it--and watching it change.

But ultimately the patterns will re-assert themselves because of the depth of the grooves created by the planets as they follow their paths and interact. That's been my experience, on a grand scale...

I know we can step outside the wheel of samsara and transcend our own birth charts... I'm beginning to see the planets as representing this wheel very well. But these patterns and energies exist for a real reason and they really do indicate deep patterns and tendencies in our psyches/karma/soul's journeys... which can be observed in action over long periods of time, by transit, by progression, and in synastry/composite...

I've been at it a while--9 years--not really much in the grand scheme of things--and I think i know what ya'll are talking about, but I have observed the validity of astrology time and again, through periods of doubt, and ultimately find it very, very useful to consult and consider, in synastry as well as other areas...

posted October 23, 2015 02:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
I wanna see the charts of these people who have great relationships but are incompatible according to astrology. I have had friends with incompatible charts who stayed together--for a good long time--and then broke up... it was in there all along... and there are folks with difficult synastry who I can definitely find binding, harmonious indicators.. I think they're always there... as an astrologer... lol.. I'm biased in favour of astrology always being indicative of reality. It's just whether you know what to look for... imo.

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My boyfriend and I have an amazing relationship, but I am not sure that astrology captures that. From my perspective, it is almost like astrology doesn't think we'll make it.

posted October 23, 2015 06:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lerena:
I keep hearing about people having the greatest synastry and composite ever, but no relationships happening.

If people can have great synastry, a great composite, and great midpoints, is it possible for astrology to not indicate a close relationship when there is one?

Since there are cases where amazing synastry and composites get nowhere, my opinion is it must be possible for the opposite to happen. It must be possible for awful synastry, an awful composite, and no midpoint connections to exist in lasting, happy relationships.

I don't think astrology should determine whether two people are meant for each other. It's nice to interpret astrology in terms of a relationship, but in the end, if two people truly want to be together they aren't going to care if astrology says their relationship shouldn't exist or that one person must be unhappy because of X number of placements.

I know that most relationships are going to have some relationship indicators. I mean, my boyfriend and I probably have enough connections for you to see why we're together, but we don't have amazing synastry or an amazing composite. We don't have double whammies or excellent midpoints making connections with each others' charts. I feel like astrology doesn't capture the depth and real strength of my relationship.

So, I am curious if astrology can lack the evidence that a relationship is lasting and happy for both people.

Your thoughts?

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Well, my take - to put it bluntly - is that of COURSE it's possible, because anything is possible.

Astrology is not fact-based. No matter what you see in a chart, it's only potential energy. It translates differently for every human being.

I believe the point of astrology is to see how it already applies to your life. It's not predictive - and shouldn't be. Some people do use it that way, and I find that is where everyone runs into trouble (I've been guilty of that myself). How often do you see on these boards "I thought we were so good then looked at our composite and oh noes we have saturn and uranus squares to everything, our relationship is never going to happen!!"

It happens a lot, and people are also quick to agree - yeah, the relationship is doomed.

So then, self-fulfilling prophecy happens and oops, you break up. Which you then blame on your awful composite chart.

posted October 23, 2015 07:41 AM            

The relationships and lessons we are meant to have may not always match up our astrological ideals. For instance, if we are an astrologer we may fantasize about what we think is the perfect synastry (Like insisting on only dating people who makes particular aspects to our chart). Alternatively, we could wildly crush on somebody completely unobtainable, and perhaps over think this, because of the person happens to fit some of our synastry ideals.

But… The reality is that sometimes we may not be meant to have the ’ideal’ synastry that we think is best. That doesn’t mean that astrology doesn’t work. If the person we have ideal synastry with turns out to be not the one for us, it’s not sign that astrology failed. We probably just weren’t fated to have that ‘perfect’ type of synastry with our partner in this life. Sometimes struggles with certain things are what we need to grow. The right fit might be different that what we expected. Some people do get exactly what they hoped for, some people get more of a surprise. Neither one is wrong. My thoughts are that if a certain relationship is not fated to happen then no amount of perfect synastry will force it into reality. And if a certain relationship is meant to happen, due to our karmic fate, then no amount supposedly ‘bad’ synastry is likely to throw it off course.

Sometimes people are meant to go through the experience of Pluto square Mars, Venus opposite Saturn, and so on. Some of these so-called 'bad' aspects turn out not to be as horrific as we feared. Yes, there are cases where Pluto square Mars could indicate one person murdering the other, but the aspect does not always manifest in such an extreme manner. For instance, maybe all it means for one couple is that they argue about household chores, and try to manipulate each other into cleaning the kitchen or doing the laundry, because Mars rules the 4th house and Pluto rules the 6th house in that synastry.

What is ’bad’ synastry anyway? Too many squares? (stressful for some) To many trines? (boring for some others). I’ve actually noticed the different people are attracted to different types of synastry based on the on the unique set-up of their charts. What’s terrible for one person works just fine for someone else. I’ve seen people report squares on synastry threads as being energizing and intense rather ‘bad’. Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher had the worst synastry ever (going by traditional rules) and they managed to stay together for quite a few years. Her stellium in Scorpio squared his stellium in Aqua. It’s very hard synastry but at least they were connected, they felt strongly about each other one way or another. Hard aspects aren't the end of the world after all. When it comes to synastry, you have to be realistic and take the good with the bad. No synastry will be truly ‘perfect’.

About synastry ideals. I’ll admit I’m guilty of having quite a few of them. I definitely prefer certain aspects over others, and certainly hope It’s going to be my lot in life to find a guy that can give me that. Yeah, I want that Venus/Mars trine and so on. I think it’s natural to dream optimistically like this. I even designed my own ‘weird science’ dream guy by trying to find the ideal match for me within a 10 year radius of my birth. In my mind this is my guy until reality brings me what I’m actually going to get. What that is, who knows? Of course I want my hopes to pan out but there are no guarantees.

I also want to state for the record that I believe astrology is a real force that actually works, and that it truly does describe the things as they objectively are. It’s the human error and interpretation that messes things up. It’s not astrology that gets it wrong, it’s astrologers. This goes for synastry, natal charts, transits, all of it. I’ve found that if you observe carefully with an open mind the answers are there.

posted October 23, 2015 12:57 PM            

I don't see the pint of idealizing long-termed relationships ... To each their own.

Something else to add: We all have placements we live but when a person with these placements interact with us, the composite which is the relationship itself turned awry because we are not the ideal person for our ideals.

posted October 23, 2015 01:18 PM            

I find that lacking certain 'soul mate markers' and indicators of sexual compatibility can be totally fine for certain people; for instance my sister and her partner do not share many sexual aspects but he has Mars in Aquarius and it suits him just fine... they hit each other off in some significant ways though, his Cap Sun on her North Node and some Juno action.

posted October 23, 2015 03:31 PM            

More than anything, I think that timing is the most important thing. You can have perfect compatibility with someone, but they're not at a point in their lives where they're willing and ready to welcome you into it and offer it to you, then it's not going to go anywhere.

Likewise, I think that sometimes we can love bad people for us with all of our hearts. Sometimes we end up in relationships with these people because they bring us past life karma and either we are teaching them something, or they are teaching us something. I really do believe in this.

posted October 24, 2015 10:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Lerena, do post if you'd like to discuss the specific charts...

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In our synastry, I am the blue and my boyfriend is the red.

Synastry:

Composite:

posted October 24, 2015 10:47 PM            

Astrology by itself does not indicate who you will choose to relate to.

If you had great relationships with every person with whom you share good synastry and have met over the years, you'd be overwhelmed with relational chaos!

Besides, what is your notion of 'perfect' synastry?

Most astrologers are inconsistent at best in identifying the real relational potentials indicated in two persons' charts. IF you don't include declinations (parallels, contra-parallels) in synastry ... IF you are not working with two 100% validated charts (which takes time and work), then there is no guarantee you are going to see the full picture.

Also, it depends on how much karama there is between you, and upon the nature of it. I have some of those 'bad' synastry aspects with my wife's chart, Mars-Pluto, etc. But my Moon contra-parallel her Jupiter goes a long way to changing the tone. And we have no karmic debt between us so we started clean. Most people who are still working on their karma (whether they know it or not) subconsciously feel 'no potential' in response to someone with whom they share no karma, or they will find other (karmic) relationships run interference with trying to start up such a relationship.

Love overcomes all, but it may take time. Take that time. Its good for your soul.

quote:

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There is me and my boyfriend. I've researched all kinds of relationship indicators, marriage indicators, soul mate indicators, etc. I can't find anything worth getting excited over. I'm not going to argue that astrology definitely says we're incompatible, but the search for our binding connection has me going around in circles at this point. Of course, I may not be looking for the right indicators.
My boyfriend and I have an amazing relationship, but I am not sure that astrology captures that. From my perspective, it is almost like astrology doesn't think we'll make it.

---

This is almost certainly from misguided astrology.

Look here at what I count up with + and - (5-degree orbs/ 1 for declination)...

- His Sun-Mercury closely conjunct your Jupiter; a good start right there. ++
- His Sun-Mercury trine your Venus. ++
- His Moon conjunct your Uranus, best friends aspect, and your Neptune, spiritual connection. ++
- His Moon sextile your Pluto. +
- His Venus trine your Mars. +
... So far 8 POSITIVES, 0 negatives!!!
- His Jupiter quincunx your Sun. Sun-Jupiter aspects are always positive. +
- His Jupiter trine your Saturn. +
- His Jupiter square your Uranus-Neptune. --
Finally, something negative ...
- His Saturn square your Pluto. -
- His Saturn trine your Moon. +
... sextile your Mercury. +
- His Uranus-Neptune square your Mercury. --
- His Pluto square your Saturn. -
--- sub-total longitude aspects:
+ Postives = 12
- Negatives = 6

Declinations ...

- His Mercury Parallel your Venus. +
- His Mars Parallel your Pluto. Intense, but gives strong staying power. +
- His Uranus Contra-parallel your Moon. -
... Parallel your N.Node. +
- His N.Node Parallel your Neptune. -
Adding 3+, 2-
= 15 positives
8 negatives.

That is a fantastic synastry!

Who told you it wasn't???

posted October 24, 2015 11:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
That is a fantastic synastry!

Who told you it wasn't???

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posted October 24, 2015 11:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lerena:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
[b]That is a fantastic synastry!

Who told you it wasn't???

My brain and inexperience, mostly. I didn't see much there. I felt like maybe I could just be inexperienced, but my inability to tell for sure clouded my judgment. Every time I looked at our synastry, it just seemed like we had nothing there.

I am relieved to hear that about our synastry though. It is quite reassuring. Now I need to get better at interpreting charts, because I overlooked some of those things you listed.

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Yeah,

I have to concur that the synastry is actually pretty good even by conventional standards. So I wouldn't worry about it. I particularly like the Venus/Mars trine (it's very tight even though it looks to be an out-of-sign aspect), his Sun on your Jupiter (very warm and positive), and his Sun trine your Venus (very affectionate). And it looks like the two of you have a Sun trine Moon aspect as well. Your Taurus Sun trine his Capricorn Moon. That is typical of very good compatibility according the any astrological text book. Honestly, the synastry is fine.

You have a Taurus Dsc which ruled by Venus and his Sun trining your Venus should very very good to you in terms of him fitting what you like partnership-wise. Also Taurus rules the 2nd house traditionally, and so his Moon in your 2nd house (the Taurus house) attracts you as well.

He has a Cancer Dsc, and so in a similar fashion he could be attracted to his 4th house for getting what he likes partnership-wise (the 4th house is the traditionally ruled by Cancer). Your Venus and Sun fall into his 4th house, plus he has his own Venus in the 7th house which means he likes Venusian types (Taurus is ruled by Venus).