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Author Topic:   Exploring wider orbs and more aspects re: Vertex-- also a blurb re: Draconic-Natals
yungang_grotto
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From: red river valley
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posted January 14, 2016 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Just wanted to share with you all that I recently had another (enlightening, as usual) consultation with Dawn at The Inner Wheel, who may not be infallible by whose work I deeply respect... and she was using quite wide orbs for Vertex contacts in synastry. She was treating it, full-stop, as an angle. The same way we would consider aspects to angles; she was considering trines to the vertex, all of it. Orbs of 6 degrees at least for conjunctions... it was a fascinating revelation for me. She was linking it to growth related experiences I believe; this must be in keeping with its association with vertumnus, growth and spring time. I have been reading in various places that it is particularly telling in romantic considerations. This makes sense given the myth...

Here I've copied the relation of the myth from Kim Falconer:

"Can mythology reveal anything about the vertex? Yes. The Roman god Vertumnus has roots in the Latin word vertere, to change, turn or spin. Vertumnus was a lesser god of gardens, fruit trees and seasons. Youthful and alluring, he had the power to change himself into various forms, just as the seed changes from root, to branch to leaf to fruit. Vertumnus used this ability in his avid pursuit of the goddess Pomona.

As the myth goes, Vertumnus fell in love with a strikingly beautiful goddess (in some versions nymph) named Pomona. Although she rejected all suitors, he fed his passion with the sight of her by changing his form and passing her gardens daily as a soldier, a harvester, a fisherman, etc. Ignoring him, Pomona remained devoted only to the cultivation of fruit trees. Vertumnus persisted and one day he altered his form to that of an old woman, greeted her with a passionate kiss, and proceeded to enter her gardens.

Vertumnus, (as the matron), talked to the goddess, attempting to convince her of the rewards of relationship and the dangers of rejecting love. The qualities and integrity of the youthful god Vertumnus were discussed. Finally, "she" told Pomona the story of a young man who cruelly took his own life after being spurned by his hard hearted love. He told of how the gods turned the rejecting woman into stone, but still Pomona was not persuaded.

Finally in exasperation, Vertumnus dropped his disguise and stood naked before Pomona in his true form. She thought she was seeing the sun immerge from behind the clouds and in the glorious light of Vertumnus, she opened her heart and reciprocated his love. Together still, they attend the gardens and fruit tress of the countryside.

The theme of this myth centers on a seemingly chance moment where an outstanding event occurs. To Pomona, it was like an epiphany, a sudden turn of fate, a radical awakening of perception. To Vertumnus, it was at first a well planned strategy, then finally an act of spontaneous desperation. Imagine his surprise when Pomona finally received him!

Love, relationship and union are highlighted here, not just in the desire of Vertumnus, but also in the story he told of the young man's rejection and the tragic consequences that followed. The imagery of the gardens, fruit and vine add to the feeling of ripeness, an event finally ready to happen, a fruitful experience."

More here: http://www.falconastrology.com/vertex.htm


Just wanted to share in case any of you feel like exploring the meaning of vertex contacts in this expanded context, as it seems that many of us have only been considering conjunctions/oppositions and perhaps squares, with only very tight orbs. This opens up a whole new world for me.

Interestingly too she was making note of draconic vertex connections to natals in a synastry comparison. My draconic vertex is conjunct my friend's natal North Node. My draconic Venus is conjunct his vertex... His draconic ascendant is conjunct my North Node, and my draconic Sun is conjunct his Jupiter and descendant. She considered this "nodal activation in the extreme," and relayed that sometimes we can see in draconic what isn't there in natal-natal synastry. Her considerations of the biwheels between his Natal and Draconic as well as the comparison between my natal and draconic chart were enough to finally really convince me of the applicability of draconic stuff.. there is lots there which isn't evident in the natals alone but which is crucial for a full understanding of each of us as people. The same seems to hold true for draconic-natal synastry.

Interestingly she didn't consider draconic-draconic synastry.. only draconic-natal. She considers the former too intangible... which is interesting. I have found that we can derive meaning from a great number of combinations and methods and everybody has their own take on it. At some point of course each of us needs to narrow down what works for us and just go with that.

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llewsacm
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posted January 14, 2016 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for llewsacm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yungang, this is great info! I've studied the vertex point quite a bit and believe it does have enormous power in synastry and relationships in general. I'm not a fan of draconic...mainly because I have yet to make a connection in studying synastries in my own relationships.

I did check out draconic to natal, and found some items that do resonate with me in my current relationship.

My draconic vertex conjunct his natal Juno.
His draconic vertex conjunct my natal Destin and amor.

My draconic dsc conjunct his amor.
His draconic dsc conjunct my moon and bml.
His asc also conjuncts my valentine.

We swing from an elated state of giving all of who we are to retreating and protecting our individual egos. I have a hard time understanding sometimes why this happens, and usual take blame with my Scorpio moon and bml. I'm not sure why this happens but would prefer the giving all scenario. I'm just very sensitive as is he. I'm continually looking for answers so I can Bette understand these energies. This post gives me another path to explore. Ty!

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EmGem
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posted January 14, 2016 08:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for EmGem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I definitely feel my vertex conjunct his sun even though it's a 5 degree orb! I knew it!
Also his antivertex conjuncts my sun by 6 degrees - no doubt about it he feels it for sure. It also parallels my sun/merc/venus/jupiter very very tightly.

interesting, thanks yungang!

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Orange
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posted January 14, 2016 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Orange     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I havent really paid that much attention to Vertex in the Draconic. I've never been a big fan of Vertex. I am going to read that article you posted above.

His and mine are conjunct at 15-16' Libra, and that's exactly on our tropical synastrical opposition of Sun-Venus. Atlantis is there too.

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Elysia
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posted January 15, 2016 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Elysia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for sharing this with us, Yungang! This is great info...Don't have time to explore all of it right now, but I will..

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todd
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posted January 15, 2016 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the only thing about using myths in this case is that the vertex was calculated in the late 19th century as a mathematical point.. so it has no mythological etiology what so ever.
I embrace myths to understand symbols, but in this case I feel it is over reaching to find a word that looks like vertex and put these ideas on the vertex. but you could be correct as quantum physics shows that quality can be a quantum characteristic.

todd

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yungang_grotto
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From: red river valley
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posted January 15, 2016 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
todd-- hmm.. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were also discovered much later than their etiological namesakes were developed... do we not ascribe them qualities in keeping with their mythological counterparts? I only do so to a certain extent but they do have a bearing on our interpretations and understanding.

The same thinking underpins the significance of the asteroids... nonlinear quantum agreements about reality, something like that, yeah?

I only use the Greek myths to a certain point myself, but they do have a bearing on my understanding of these symbols to some extent and I found the myth of Vertumnus particularly interesting given its connotation of sudden fateful revelations which continue to have a bearing long into the future; to develop and fruit. It is a really helpful myth for me actually.

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yungang_grotto
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posted January 15, 2016 04:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by llewsacm:
Yungang, this is great info! I've studied the vertex point quite a bit and believe it does have enormous power in synastry and relationships in general. I'm not a fan of draconic...mainly because I have yet to make a connection in studying synastries in my own relationships.

I did check out draconic to natal, and found some items that do resonate with me in my current relationship.

My draconic vertex conjunct his natal Juno.
His draconic vertex conjunct my natal Destin and amor.

My draconic dsc conjunct his amor.
His draconic dsc conjunct my moon and bml.
His asc also conjuncts my valentine.

We swing from an elated state of giving all of who we are to retreating and protecting our individual egos. I have a hard time understanding sometimes why this happens, and usual take blame with my Scorpio moon and bml. I'm not sure why this happens but would prefer the giving all scenario. I'm just very sensitive as is he. I'm continually looking for answers so I can Bette understand these energies. This post gives me another path to explore. Ty!


Sooo interesting because BML is highlighted in each of our draconic as well as in our draconic synastry... my BML on his draconic ASC... well, tropical too (my True black moon opposes his Moon and my Mars)... and what you've written here really resonates with our patterns so far also.

The giving all scenario is totally preferable

I'm learning to embrace my assertive BML and use her as a tool rather than be afraid of her. He WANTS me to embody BML. That's what he's looking for! So i need to step into the role (which I feel is natural to me anyway but which many of us have been encouraged to suppress--hence the fear and rage and scary...). Demetra George states that lilith can be a master negotiator. It is important to know when to be firm and state your unalloyed truth. If other people can't handle it in its pure form that situation is untenable anyway..

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yungang_grotto
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From: red river valley
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posted January 15, 2016 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EmGem:
I definitely feel my vertex conjunct his sun even though it's a 5 degree orb! I knew it!
Also his antivertex conjuncts my sun by 6 degrees - no doubt about it he feels it for sure. It also parallels my sun/merc/venus/jupiter very very tightly.

interesting, thanks yungang!


Yeah!!

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yungang_grotto
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From: red river valley
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posted January 15, 2016 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My friend's draconic-natal comparison involves a doublewhammy Juno-Descendant conjunction. Crazy. My draconic midheaven falls right on my natal Juno. We both are exploring themes in this lifetime, then, of equality in partnership. Juno's associations with demonstrations for civil rights and equality on various levels, as well as ecological/climate related awareness, is very very evident in my friend's worldview and cosmology, and also brings to bear on my life path in a significant way. Juno seems to comprise much, exists as a spectrum of experiences and possibilities, just as the other planets and astral bodies do. I'm really expanding my understanding of Juno right now. We place our Junos in one another's 4th houses--his is in his 11th natally conjunct my North Node and mine is in my 10th natally. We both naturally want to benefit the group,the collective, to do visible things with our Juno energy. Dawn says the 11th is the house of the audience which I find vfascinating as he is a musician and performance is a crucial part of his life. She says Juno in the 11th means he is looking for a permanent audience in a partner. Ha.. he's got it. I'm a big fan...

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