posted March 20, 2016 11:39 AM            

I'm reading 2 synastry charts right now--

One has a Pluto Square Sun at 0 Orb.
The other has a Pluto Conjunct Moon at 4 Orb.

Which is stronger? I'd assume Pluto/Sun since it's at 0 orb--but--I know all too well how strong Pluto/Moon can be.

Pluto in this case is the same person--Sun and Moon are 2 separate people.

posted March 20, 2016 03:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
sun square pluto exact makes me clinch lol... I've tried this aspect its no fun... its drama, drama and more drama

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yes it is. i have this in the progressed synastry just awful. but omg i feel so over powered by pluto.

posted March 20, 2016 04:23 PM            

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Originally posted by angel4845:
yes it is. i have this in the progressed synastry just awful. but omg i feel so over powered by pluto.

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posted March 20, 2016 06:46 PM            

What is the Pluto person looking to transform in Sun--ego, personality?

What about Moon? Control the Moon person's emotions?

I've been the Sun and Moon before--so I get how they are feeling.

When I was the Sun--it felt like Pluto was trying to create my identity, that i wasn't good enough.

When I was the Moon--it felt like Pluto wanted to know all of my emotions, wanted to know my soul--the whole interaction was soul-like--it was an exact though. He still haunts me today.

In the Sun situation--I left that relationship quite bitter and upset--and I was glad he was out of my life. But BOY--when I was in it--I was not able to break away. And it took years to recover--to gain back my identity.

posted March 20, 2016 08:51 PM            

Moon-Pluto is an aspect we can expect to see often in very very strong relationships of all kinds--often familial in nature, and people with this connection will likely feel a (sometimes very uncomfortable) familiarity.

posted March 20, 2016 09:03 PM              

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
I think the conjunction is always going to be experienced as an integral emotional experience and therefore essential, profound. The sense of mutual identification with the Moon-Pluto dynamic of visceral and intense change and embodied passion/control/dominance/resourcefulness/intuition--will be very strong. Whereas the square with the Sun is STRONG for sure--Sun-Pluto together is characterized by Personal Power--if we were to apply keywords. So if you want strong it doesn't get much more 'power'full than Sun/Pluto--and yet there is some perspective and distance there (if you're lucky! ) The Moon will get under Pluto's skin and stay there... The Sun will challenge Pluto to see how their internal power-urges inflict themselves on another person's vital self... and to modify them so as to be more compassionate--ideally (we need to see more chart factors for synthesis of course)-- and generate power which works for the greater good, in dredging up old patterns for examination, and changing what needs change.

Moon-Pluto is an aspect we can expect to see often in very very strong relationships of all kinds--often familial in nature, and people with this connection will likely feel a (sometimes very uncomfortable) familiarity.

For instance, my Moon is conjunct my daughter's Pluto (my Pluto is square her Moon, which is conjunct my IC). I don't feel too uncomfortable with her power because it's just absolutely right that we be in such a deep relationship. Plus I'm very Plutonian so it is like home to me.

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posted March 20, 2016 09:17 PM            

I try not to word astrological writing like that-- "this causes this," because it's more complex than that... I'm sure i slip up sometimes. It's not a direct cause and effect, as the planets are always in dynamic interplay with our personal energy and vice versa. I see human relationships... from an astrological perspective.. as somewhat non-linear and karmically complex. Did I cause her to have her natal Sun-Pluto-Saturn t-square bybeing a Plutonian mother? In a sense, yes--in another sense, my personal responsibility is limited by the fact that her being needed/wanted this experience. So did mine.

So we're embodied now and playing something out but hopefully generating a lot of good will and compassion and teaching and learning from one another about true compassion/empathy. I think we are. We probably both needed to learn things about power and control. I don't see children as passive canvasses onto which we project our will but as beings fully formed and experiencing things in their own right, as well as having an effect. Of course a power imbalance often develops between parent and child because of perceived right to dominate--this struggle then reverberates between them and causes all kinds of complexes.

Our synastry is actually characterized by squares all throughout--and we love each other so much and thrive together in many ways. Things get hard and we dominate and control one another! But we're together 24/7... and she has A LOT of freedom. Her Moon is in Aquarius on my IC if that tells you anything. We free school/home school. I wonder what is going to happen in the future. I'm hoping with communication and commitment to presence and compassion we will remain good friends. My influence on her is apparent in her chart, despite my rambling about non-linearity our relationship is clearly written there (she has a Venus-Neptune-Chiron-Ceres stellium around 1 degree Pisces).

posted March 20, 2016 09:45 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Did I say that? I wonder where?

I try not to word astrological writing like that-- "this causes this," because it's more complex than that... I'm sure i slip up sometimes. It's not a direct cause and effect, as the planets are always in dynamic interplay with our personal energy and vice versa. I see human relationships... from an astrological perspective.. as somewhat non-linear and karmically complex. Did I cause her to have her natal Sun-Pluto-Saturn t-square bybeing a Plutonian mother? In a sense, yes--in another sense, my personal responsibility is limited by the fact that her being needed/wanted this experience. So did mine.

So we're embodied now and playing something out but hopefully generating a lot of good will and compassion and teaching and learning from one another about true compassion/empathy. I think we are. We probably both needed to learn things about power and control. I don't see children as passive canvasses onto which we project our will but as beings fully formed and experiencing things in their own right, as well as having an effect. Of course a power imbalance often develops between parent and child because of perceived right to dominate--this struggle then reverberates between them and causes all kinds of complexes.

Our synastry is actually characterized by squares all throughout--and we love each other so much and thrive together in many ways. Things get hard and we dominate and control one another! But we're together 24/7... and she has A LOT of freedom. Her Moon is in Aquarius on my IC if that tells you anything. We free school/home school. I wonder what is going to happen in the future. I'm hoping with communication and commitment to presence and compassion we will remain good friends. My influence on her is apparent in her chart, despite my rambling about non-linearity our relationship is clearly written there (she has a Venus-Neptune-Chiron-Ceres stellium around 1 degree Pisces).

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posted March 20, 2016 10:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
I think the conjunction is always going to be experienced as an integral emotional experience and therefore essential, profound. The sense of mutual identification with the Moon-Pluto dynamic of visceral and intense change and embodied passion/control/dominance/resourcefulness/intuition--will be very strong. Whereas the square with the Sun is STRONG for sure--Sun-Pluto together is characterized by Personal Power--if we were to apply keywords. So if you want strong it doesn't get much more 'power'full than Sun/Pluto--and yet there is some perspective and distance there (if you're lucky! ) The Moon will get under Pluto's skin and stay there... The Sun will challenge Pluto to see how their internal power-urges inflict themselves on another person's vital self... and to modify them so as to be more compassionate--ideally (we need to see more chart factors for synthesis of course)-- and generate power which works for the greater good, in dredging up old patterns for examination, and changing what needs change.

Moon-Pluto is an aspect we can expect to see often in very very strong relationships of all kinds--often familial in nature, and people with this connection will likely feel a (sometimes very uncomfortable) familiarity.

For instance, my Moon is conjunct my daughter's Pluto (my Pluto is square her Moon, which is conjunct my IC). I don't feel too uncomfortable with her power because it's just absolutely right that we be in such a deep relationship. Plus I'm very Plutonian so it is like home to me.

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Yungang--once again another amazing analysis by you.

Can you go deeper into what you mean the Moon gets under Pluto's skin?

posted March 21, 2016 01:00 AM              

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Yeah we have power struggles for sure. Big time. It's a thing.

But WHERE did i say that? I don't think it was even me. This whole exchange is reminding me of something from my past. So interesting...

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I dont have anything to do with your past and it doesnt interest me.

posted March 21, 2016 04:23 AM            

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Originally posted by Spongebob:
I dont have anything to do with your past and it doesnt interest me.

At least you're consistent though , that if you're going to negatively stereotype an aspect you apply it to everyone including yourself.

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posted March 21, 2016 04:28 AM            

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Originally posted by ScorpieScorp:
Yungang--once again another amazing analysis by you.

Can you go deeper into what you mean the Moon gets under Pluto's skin?

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Kinda said it in the first part--it's literally an embodied conjunction, where the Moon is taking on Pluto, into the essence of its core being... physically, intuitively... Pluto in the veins, in the lunar tide... in the water. This is why i mentioned my daughter--literally she was Under My Skin! In my womb. It's that literal, which is why Pluto relationships are so difficult to leave and so compelling.

posted March 22, 2016 08:09 AM            

The relationship with the Sun-Pluto square in composite was with a double Taurus and me being a Scorpio, that vibe of power and control was there from the beginning. Not to mention in our synastry we had tons of oppositions and comjunctions between our luminaries and Pluto. The relationship was very intense, sexy, but very heartbreaking. I ended up losing everything while dealing with the guy only because I was blinded by the intensity of feeling I felt. Never have I felt such an intense pull towards someone until I met him. Our relationship wasn't healthy at all though. We fought all the time and I would be the one chasing after him, waiting around for him to call, etc. i'll never forget him because he's the ONLY guy who, even until this day, had complete power over me and I still can't figure out why. I envied the way he moved but admired it at the same time. I have a Taurus ASC so I admire Taurus energy anyway but with him, it was even better. I have a Scorpio stellium so I'm pretty sure you can see why this one affected me so much.

posted March 23, 2016 12:33 AM            

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Originally posted by next to neptune:
But it's also a necessary lesson to learn from pluto... we all gotta experience a truly dramatic relationship to grow as individuals... after a relationship like this you're gonna find out what you dont want and need - probably something to do with jealousy and powerstruggles

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yes i agree with you, yes jealousy and power struggles for sure but MORE with power struggles and the EGO as of right now with him.i feel i have strong ego issues with him, he is too proud to admit his vulnerabilities and power issues with women, he expresses it passively. i've dealt with this before.

posted March 30, 2016 12:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Kinda said it in the first part--it's literally an embodied conjunction, where the Moon is taking on Pluto, into the essence of its core being... physically, intuitively... Pluto in the veins, in the lunar tide... in the water. This is why i mentioned my daughter--literally she was Under My Skin! In my womb. It's that literal, which is why Pluto relationships are so difficult to leave and so compelling.

Pluto rules the 8th house of merging. We don't want to let go. It's a life or death bond feeling. Pluto is the resource for continuation of life which we find in the union of self and other. It's a pivotal life experience... not easily given up.

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