posted November 09, 2016 07:33 PM            

I've been a member here on LL since 2013 and I've asked a million questions since then regarding my relationships and our compatibility.

As I get older and a little wiser, I'm starting to see the negative side to all of this.

If you're not a strong-minded person who is extremely mentally strong then coming to LL for any answers about your personal relationships is a death sentence in my opinion. If you can use Astrology strictly for entertainment without applying it to real life, I salute you but a lot of us internalize the information and sabotage our relationships because of it.

Astrology is very accurate and very true, but even the best Astrology can't predict the outcome and/ or inner dynamics of a relationship.

I see so many professionals handing out fatalistic interpretations off Composite aspects let alone one and I don't think that's necessarily a good idea.

Astrology can't predict the future of determine how two people's energies will interact regardless of Synastry/ Composite aspects. No one knows how astrological aspects will transfer into real life.

Telling someone their relationship isn't likely to last or this person will most likely cheat on you, etc etc based off aspects is very unprofessional and fatalistic.

You can interpret a chart from top to bottom but a transit alone might change the entire workings of a relationship.

Life is unpredictable within itself so Astrology can't and won't change that. we seem to forget that by getting so caught up in this fascinating art.

I love Astrology and believe in it whole-heartedly but I'm done looking for answers from strangers based off potential charts.

And this is just my own realization.

Feel free to disagree.

But Astrology isn't as fatalistic as many on here make it out.

A million bad aspects won't kill a relationship or my parents wouldn't be married HAPPILY 20 + years.

Or let's use Uranus and Saturn. The big bad bullies.

Uranus isn't always a relationship killer and neither is Saturn.

posted November 09, 2016 07:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Yanmorg:

Telling someone their relationship isn't likely to last or this person will most likely cheat on you, etc etc based off aspects is very unprofessional and fatalistic.

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posted November 09, 2016 11:23 PM            

I hesitate to post anything here anymore, the more I learn, because the importance of looking thoroughly at both natal charts, their transits and progressions, the synastry, the composite/Davison, and the interactions of each chart with them is absolutely necessary for a truly ethical reading which gives enough information to be really reliable. However even then it is, of course, actually impossible to get to the "bottom" of a chart, just as a doctor appraising a person's physical health can not get inside that person's body and know about all their emotional/psychic/physiological triggers, and therefore can not predict how their health/state of disease may actually progress, but only give their educated opinion based on their learning and observations.

The thing about it is, that this is, or has been, a huge element of the nature of the art of astrology for a very long time... this fatalism. It takes a great deal of tact and delicacy to avoid saying that a relationship is fairly unlikely to be an everlasting happy one, while still making clear what issues are likely to arise within it, to be worked through.

It is important though to give the scope of the relationship without saying outright that it will not or can not work--of course!! It takes a lot of skill and time and delicacy, and the ability to interpret and translate aspect patterns and create a chart synthesis which is resonant with the querant and provides constructive advice to go forward with.

I have been reflecting on how Robert Hand's book, Planets in Composite, features many fatalistic interpretations based on single aspects. I agree with you that this can be very problematic, but this issue is not limited to LL by any means. Rob Hand's book is referred to by countless professional and amateur astrologers hoping for clarity in their relationships.

Dawn Bodrogi says we are moving away from predictive and towards depth astrology. I agree with her. It is not so much about what will happen... but why? And how will it feel? And how can we influence our present state of being with an awareness of the energetic patterns which are discernible?

posted November 09, 2016 11:45 PM            

A consulting astrologer is not going to live it for you. They are going to help you as much as they can to see clearly in the time that they have with you, and they might not see everything, because again, that's too much to expect.

When people hire professional astrologers in India, though, to consult about whether or not to marry somebody (a VERY common occurrence, as there are so many arranged marriages there still), they will give their opinion with a yes or no answer, and that is often respected and considered good enough, because the professional astrologer has been rigorously trained, and can tell whether the people in the relationship will be basically happy and well respected by one another or not. Of course, the Indian astrologer reads the chart in the context of cultural gender roles, and the institution of marriage as it is in India. So it is an entirely different situation than what we have over here, a different metaphysical situation and way of being, in fact... because the tendency for abuse is higher in a place where divorce is very frowned upon, etc etc...

Of course you can stay in any relationship, and love conquers all. A lot of really quite terrible relationships which enable both partners' bad habits, etc., last for entire life times because of love and dedication and the refusal to leave one another. This is seen as romantic.

And I do not claim to know all of the karmic reasons for these situations (although the charts usually tell the story anyway). But whether that's actually the optimal situation for you, or just operating off of the addictive element of relationship, is another matter.

We all have free will, yes. We can transcend our own charts, and we can operate alongside heaven as a co-creator of our lives. I believe this is true. I also know that the dynamism and applicability of astrology is different moment to moment, situation by situation.

The consulting astrologer is matched to the querant by the same mysterious waves of fate and time as two people are brought together by... The way the astrologer interprets the chart, and the way this interpretation is interpreted by the querent, is part of this mystery.

I appreciate your caution and your opinion. I think it is of the utmost importance that we each maintain our own "strength of mind," but not such that we are blinding ourselves. We must be ruthless with ourselves and others if we wish to relieve ourselves and other beings of suffering and see things clearly. I am not in the business of placating people and giving them what they want to hear, because often that isn't actually in their best interests (in my opinion). But I do everything I can to offer constructive avenues for self expression, exploration, and development of a radiant and joyful experience of life, of relationship, and togetherness. I try to be practical as well; I try to make sure that the advice I give is both encouraging, inspiring, and realistic...

I'm not always on. No consulting astrologer is. Everybody makes mistakes and has a bad day sometimes, and accountability and the willingness to reflect on mistakes and do better next time, or rectify mistakes which are acknowledged as having been made, is very important in any profession, any relationship, any area of life. The consequences of an astrological consultation can be very high for people, indeed. And the need for ethical and considerate phrasing is paramount. I try to give the most balanced and constructive advice I can, without making predictions just for the sake of having something to say. I will answer direct questions indirectly, guided by intuition and compassion, and this is always satisfying for the client because my answer is the considered answer that any oracle would give. It doesn't do to tell the future, because it can't be known... we are all creators in the matrix of being. But we can watch patterns and give projections based on those patterns.

Are you driving towards a brick wall at 100 miles per hour? Chances are you are going to hit that wall. Have you constructed a facade of a brick wall--will you drive right through it? Yay. Astrology is nuanced and deep, and chart synthesis can tell us things like whether that wall is even real brick or not...

posted November 10, 2016 12:12 AM            

I have not studied with that kind of depth and fervour. I have been learning for 10 years and I still have a long way to go before I can confidently give an absolutely accurate analysis and know how things are likely to play out.

It would take me so long to consider a composite chart fully enough that I actually got it right.

I was just looking at a thread where I had commented, and I think I totally underestimated the significance of a few key aspects which would have changed my interpretation dramatically. I didn't take enough time with it. So it goes, but as you say, there is a risk posting on an internet forum and requesting peoples' opinions. People are gonna give them, based on any number of personal experiences and observations, and we must not allow our minds to focus so strongly on these words and concepts that they cloud the totality of our real experience.

Of course, this is true of most of life too, and if we personally have a tendency towards obsessive thinking, projection of our thoughts, impressionability, gullibility, fantasizing etc etc... then that will play into how we receive an astrological interpretation, just as the words of a friend about our relationship could echo in our minds for months and months and influence us in countless ways.

Everything we do matters.

I honestly move more and more towards non-doing, not speaking, not giving my opinion on anything... in my life, I am happiest when I am on my own being quiet and not trying to influence anything or look like anything. I became a professional astrologer out of perceived financial necessity, in part, to be honest. It is a way I can stay at home with my daughter and provide therapeutic counseling to people using my skills. I enjoy counseling people and they seem to derive real benefit from what I can offer.

Honestly I consider intepersonal astrology to be one of the most complex branches of astrology.

My mentors, the professional astrologers I've learned from and witnessed in action, when they give interpersonal readings especially seem to need to display a certain amount of detachment. When somebody comes to see you to ask about their relationship, they simply need to be prepared to hear your opinion and to use your insights to the best of their ability within the context of what they know and are experiencing.

This is a mysterious art which does not operate outside the bounds of its own rules, and the interpersonal dynamic between the astrologer and the querent, and the relationship chart and the astrologer, etc., do have a bearing on the outcome of the reading and the experience and meaningfulness thereof...

However, as a consulting astrologer and a taoist/yogi/alchemist, I do try to transcend my own astrological chart when giving readings and hold truly lucid and open space for the unveiling of the truth within the chart I am looking at, from as detached and objective a perspective as I can muster.

posted November 10, 2016 01:28 AM            

The thing is that even the astrologer is an aspect of you yourself...that which they have to say is a manifestation of you. That's my real opinion, that if indeed we do not attract that which isn't right for us, then we won't attract an astrologer to give us advice we don't need either.

Astrologers don't somehow operate outside of the bounds of personal need/karma/etc (unless they do).

posted November 10, 2016 03:30 AM            

The body doesn't lie. Listen to it. Always.

posted November 10, 2016 05:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by EmGem:
I'm just going to say what I always say...

The body doesn't lie. Listen to it. Always.

Yun, you're amazing btw 😉💜

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EmGem, I whole heartedly agree.

I am guilty of wanting to know the answers ahead of time, and I am probably susceptible to fatalistic interpretations. But that's my own doing. I know I have free will. I would never take the advice of someone else and then blame it on them if I regretted it. I understand completely that if I choose to take someone's advice, it is MY choice and mine alone to act on it.

posted November 14, 2016 01:31 PM            

Especially you, yungang_otto . I agree completely and after rereading my initial post, I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone and I did not mean to come off as insensitive or ungrateful because a lot of you have helped me tremendously when it comes to relationships, family, trauma, and emotional baggage.

And I do agree that the individual is just as responsible for a reading, if not more than the professional. We were never supposed to internalize advice or suggestions.

This is our own fault.

Thank you all for the replies.

My schedule is too busy this week to reply like I want to each one so I'll leave it at this but I did reread this post more times than I can count and I appreciate the responses.

posted November 18, 2016 12:46 AM            

You've just got to know how to read it properly... If you go around telling people overly fatalistic things based on synastry it can really give people the wrong end of the stick.

Hard aspects are not the end of the world. They show a certain challenging or confronting dynamic between people, but some people deal well with that energy style.

Also, house rulership synastry can shed light which otherwise wouldn't show.

posted November 18, 2016 02:35 AM            

Is ur more important to put planets into and activate the 5/7/8 houses for romantic rel or conjunctions to Venus and house rulers?

posted November 18, 2016 03:00 AM            

Not only can I attest to how a "bad" composite/ synastry reading is not fatalistic and does not signal failure in the future of the relationship... but on the other side of the coin, a GOOD synastry/composite reading also does not mean the relationship is supposed to continue on.

I clung to a toxic, abusive relationship for years in spite of all of my deep gut, intuitive reactions to that man, just because I saw strong love/ positive aspects with him. I knew in my heart of hearts that the match was wrong (and, of course, was warned on this forum and elsewhere that things were definitely not all sunshine and daisies even according to those 'strong' charts), but I struggled to accept those harsh realities and it was a very hard thing to get over at the end.

posted November 18, 2016 06:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by EmGem:
Lotis, just a quick question for you that I e been thinking about.

Is ur more important to put planets into and activate the 5/7/8 houses for romantic rel or conjunctions to Venus and house rulers?

What if you put planets in their 5/7/8 that are activated in synastry but no conjunctions??

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I use both overlays and house rulers. House ruler stuff is great for chemistry. However in the case of overlays there's a catch...

That catch is that if the overlaying planet is not aspecting our chart (even if it sits in one of our relationship houses) we can totally overlook it and not feel that loving vibe. Aspects = feelings. Without them we tend to be pretty neutral about a person.

There's also something I like to think of as the X factor in astrology. We tend to relate to people according to what houses they put planets in but how that manifests can depend on karma or fate. As in, whether or not we're meant to have a platonic, romantic, or even as a one-sided crush, with that person.

What I mean is, the 7th house is not just about love and marriage (although it has a LOT to do with this). It's also about partnership, cooperation, and negotiation in general. Someone may put planets in our 7th but if we're not fated to partner romantically with that particular person it won't manifest that way. But the 7th house connection in synastry WILL manifest one way or another. Maybe the person tn is just someone we like to be around, and cooperate with. Maybe we talk about relationships or social skills with them often. Or maybe they're even a kind of rival to us, with whom we have opposing views. The 7th house connection will function in the synastry if it's there, but how it manifests is where the question mark is.

So yes it can happen that sometimes someone will put a bunch of planets in your 5th house (or 7th, or 8th) but that the relationship will only operate on a platonic level. Simply because that's all it was ever meant to be.

What I have noticed, though, is that 5th, 7th, and 8th house overlays do increase the likelihood that a connection will be romantic. There's no denying that these three houses are heavily laden with romantic symbolism, so when someone puts planets in these houses it certainly does give increased romantic potential. It's just not guaranteed that an actual romance will ensue. Potential is not the same thing as a guarantee. There's a lot of different topics associated with these three houses that could potentially manifest on a platonic level as well (eg 8th house = tax accountant).

It's the same with house ruler synastry. Having someone heavily aspect the 5th, 7th, and 8th house rulers increases the likelihood of attraction. Simply because there's a lot of potentially romantic symbolism associated with these houses. But again, if the relationship was only meant to be platonic because of fate/karma some other part of this house symbolism will manifest in synastry (eg 5th house ruler aspect = shared interest in children or performance).

This X factor is one reason why fatalistic interpretations can be misleading.

Your boyfriend may have Moon in your 5th house. And they may work wonderfully for the 'spark' in your relationship because the 5th house has to do with flirting and courtship. However, your show-off co-worker may also have Moon in your 5th house, but in this case you just think they're too much of an attention grabber (5th house is also about self-expression).

Aspect configerations often help explain these differences. Boyfriend's Moon in your 5th may trine by degree your Venus, but show-off co-worker may have Moon at a different degree opposite your Pluto (you see their attention grabbing ways as a type of power play). Now, if you're one of those that actually gets a kick out of hard aspects, or maybe it's cos Pluto rules one of you love houses, you might actually prefer the confronting energy of that Pluto/Moon opp to the Venus trine. Some people are actually like this.