posted December 08, 2016 04:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Enneline:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b] She can say her piece the same as everyone else can!

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of course, always jumping on the train that might discredit a business rival = LeeLoo or shall I say a professional astrologer that is far more complex and better than you Ami!!! nothing but jealousy in your mind

apart from that, i only have one thing to say about you:

you are

[/B][/QUOTE]

Sending to Randall

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Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.

posted December 08, 2016 04:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Sending to Randall

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Enneline is a valued member who contributes a lot of valuable insights. She is not a troll like Page One.

posted December 08, 2016 04:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Ceri, I hate to ask you to stay, but it's nice seeing you here.

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YAY!

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted December 08, 2016 05:03 PM            

Thank you, guys. I appreciate this.

Not going to stay, but maybe put my head in now and then.

posted December 08, 2016 05:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Faith and Leeloo and Enneline,

Thank you, guys. I appreciate this.

Not going to stay, but maybe put my head in now and then.

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posted December 08, 2016 05:10 PM            

I was actually thinking the same thing.
Can you shoot me an email, so we can keep in contact like that?
Cause what I said last month, still stands, I want to keep the meaningful communication to email.

posted December 08, 2016 05:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Enneline is a valued member who contributes a lot of valuable insights. She is not a troll like Page One.

You provoke a lot of people to the point of wanting to throw up, she is just bold enough to give it full expression.

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posted December 08, 2016 05:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
Let's make our discussion here about the ideas and the approach to astrology, not generating bad blood with ad hominem words about fellow forum members.

As I see it there are a few issues that were brought up:

[b]Astro keen's: The use of synastry factors (asteroids) in synastry to make a prediction about a third party. This involves three things:

(a) queries about the charts/lives of third parties (rarely helpful). This is usually a desire by the querent to relieve their own anxiety about a loved one's situation. The problem is their anxiety. The third party will do what they will do without or without advice from an astrologer they do not know, even if it comes through the words of a loved one. This grapevine astrology is ineffective and basically a futile exercise at relieving anxiety that would be better relieved by taking a walk, some deep breaths, or meditating.

(b) picking out one factor or aspect to make a prediction or interpretation, not a good idea, especially with the chart of a third party.

(c) over-reliance on minor factors like asteroids, which never have the importance of planets.

These alone form an ideational obstacle course in which little agreement can be reached because of the different approaches astrologers will choose to take.

Here are some suggestions:

I suggest that you not make queries about third parties. Ask about your own chart, post an actual chart or data sheet, or offer your birth data.

It is best to answer questions with a specific interpretation only when looking at the actual chart in question. Secondhand information is often wrong or in some way misconstrued. Astrology is complex and newbies (and veterans) sometimes miscommunicate in the transfer.

It is best for third parties to make their own inquiries.

Astro keen's: Free will of the person in question. This is a biggie, because it is far easier to come up with simplistic interpretations that are actually predictions, which can hold a kind of sway over the mind of the querent, lending an apparent authority to the astrologer giving it. I don't care how psychic or intuitive a person is or how long they may have followed, studied, or practiced astrology, no one -- NO ONE -- has the right to step in between a person and the free will given them by nature and Creator.

Free will is not a question of whether any of us have the power to immediately choose to transcend gravity or some other unavoidable dynamic of nature. It is about the choice of the individual in expressing the energies shown in their birth chart. We make thousands of these choices each day within our thought processes. Brain science has documented this.

We all have choice in how we direct the martial energy of Mars or any other energy.

That is what is missing too often - failure to see astrological factors as energy potentials that can be used in a variety of ways and informing the native of that. Otherwise, we continue the superstitious notions of the astrologies of old that the planets 'rule' us (thus commanding rather than nudging), that there is some 'law' formerly attributed to the pantheon of gods, but now lent to anthropomorphized planets. But what is always given in that mindset is the astrologer's personal take on exactly what that means for a given chart, or some borrowed cookie cutter 'cook book' notion.

Planets are mirrors. They are external bodies that represent the energetic aspects of ourselves, of the cosmic body. That is why Steven Forrest named one of his books, The Inner Sky. This perspective is more humanist and more spiritual.

Astrologers missing a genuine experience and understanding of this will give simplistic interpretations that can easily be wrong, and yes, will be do more harm than good.

Violets: "Qi Vampire Psychics" link:

http://mysticmedusa.com/2016/12/qi-vampire-psychics/

I can concur with this even without reading the article. One of the biggest challenges to keeping my ego in balance over the last two decades has been related to this astrologer's ego, the [b]I know something you don't (about you). It is very seductive and can steer judgment away from the balance of logic and intuition, away from respect for the free choice of others (past and future). It obscures a clear, contemplative view of any birth chart.

The purpose of studying or applying astrological information is for liberating the mind to greater soul development.

Finally, when a person gives a specific predictive interpretation for especially a third party this is not a general introduction to astrology. It is the attempt to perform astrology in answering a specific question about a specific person's life.

Having astrological insight is a responsibility. If I violate appropriate boundaries or fail to honor a person's free will -- ever -- please, feel perfectly free to call me on it. I will apologize and correct myself.

[/B]

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Quoting this as well like some others have, in case it gets lost in the arguing.

It's worth reading! Very informative, structured and respectful.

Indeed we're still looking at a person, even if it's "just" a natal chart and if they think something doesn't click for them, there may be something in the chart to explain it.

posted December 08, 2016 05:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
Maybe one needs an alt-LL . Any techies here?

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yes, that is a good idea

i might not be there any longer since Randall might stick to AmiAnne

posted December 09, 2016 05:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Choc:
Y'all act like a bunch of dogmatic children.
Some of us "simple fellas" with no extensive and profound knowledge of astrology, start off with those simplistic cookbook definitions, because they are helpful and easily "digested" to out untrained minds. The more someone delves into a specific subject, the more they learn though. Unfortunately, sometimes $hit happens and one misses the chance to continue on this journey of astrological exploration. So what.
Astrology should be fun and educative too, not just math calculations and psychoanalytical gibberish.
Not saying AmiAnne is correct in her predictions, though. Noone appreciates a fatalistic approach to a freaking synastry reading.
So y'all F*ING CHILL.

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You have a right to your view. Yet I have to say you demean astrology by fracture it from math calculations and psychoanalysis. You're saying astrology is not a science, just some myth ancient people made up, and as such I doubt it has much educational materials.

As for if Enneline is banned for speaking that, I'd be happy to follow her stead. I hope Randall will realize trying to suppress the voice of reason will only bring more resistance. Better find a more appropriate policy.

posted December 09, 2016 08:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
Yet I have to say you demean astrology by fracture it from math calculations and psychoanalysis. You're saying astrology is not a science, just some myth ancient people made up, and as such I doubt it has much educational materials.

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Great point, Tulipe. Astrology is an esoteric predictive psychological science working with myths and archetypes. In psychology, we define psychological traits which allows us to understand, heal and predict behavior. Then they are statistically tested and subsequently used in practice. Just like social sciences/psychology and all science for that matter, in order to hold any validity, astrology implies the same 3 main stages: 1. hypothesis 2. statistical analysis 3. theory.

Of course, at its beginnings, like any science, astrology was in its experimental, empirical stage and focused on event prediction. Modern astrology is still very new when it comes to integrating and verifying the theory behind the concepts with advanced scientific technology/methods.

My current personal theory is that astrology, like all esoteric sciences, is and will be pivotal in understanding the dynamics between mind (consciousness) and visible reality (matter). With astrology, we give meanings to the universe around - creation of archetypes - (eg. attribute the concept of "love" to planet Venus, "time" to planet Saturn) and then we notice this attribution reflects reality and becomes a tool enabling us to accurately predict and understand events/people (self-realization of myths). The answer to the question "why does this happen?" will be a scientific breakthrough.

As far as astrological interpretation goes, it is similar to any psychological analysis, its mathematical formula is pretty much what Enneline posted, very advanced combinatorics applied to a case-by-case basis.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...