posted December 12, 2016 05:16 PM            

At any rate, I have some questions. Now, bear in mind, I know everyone says to keep aspects tight - degree/orb wise - when it comes to synastry. However, I am much more liberal, and thus, offer more "liberty" in terms of range for degrees/orbs. Particularly when it comes to Sun, Moon, Ascendant, and the Sun/Moon midpoint in synastry. I know a lot of people argue that the tighter the orb, the more easily felt it is. However, I would argue that just because something is not so readily felt does not mean it does not exist as an undercurrent or something more of a "background noise". Still there, but not as radically noticed - like a spot of red paint on a purple wall instead of a black wall.

For example - the couple, whose synastry-chart I am studying - has these interesting tidbits.

Sun/Moon Midpoint of Her = Gemini (17 degrees, 14 seconds).

His Venus = Gemini (25 degrees, 2 seconds).

Degree for the aspect? 8 degrees, 12 seconds.

His IC = Gemini (7 degrees, 5 seconds).

Degree for Aspect = 10 degrees, 9 seconds.

They are conjunctions, as I believe conjunctions (as stated before, I am much more liberal) can go up to 15 degrees. (Yes, it is not IMMEDIATELY felt - like a nail being driven under one's finger - but it is felt; perhaps more slowly absorbed. Like a frog being boiled alive. Not pleasant metaphors, I know).

In their synastry chart, they have an Exact Trine Between Her Sun and His Moon. Their Moons Trine each other at 7 degrees. Her Sun Conjuncts His Venus at 11 degrees (yes, I count it) while Her Moon Conjuncts His Venus at 4 degrees. Her Sun Trines His Ascendant at 2 degrees while His Sun Conjuncts Her Ascendant at 12 degrees (yes, I count that too). Her Moon Trines His Ascendant at 9 degrees and His Moon Squares Her Ascendant at 13 degrees (yep, count that too).

What's also interesting to note between the two are these further midpoint aspects. (Still a degree or two wider than normal).

Her Sun/Venus Midpoint = Gemini (21 degrees, 37 seconds).

His Venus = Gemini (25 degrees, 2 seconds)

Degree for Aspect/Conjunction = 4 degrees, 35 seconds

His NN = Gemini (25 degrees, 55 seconds)

Degree for Aspect/Conjunction = 4 degrees, 18 seconds

(And yes, his NN conjuncts his Venus in his natal.) They also have, in their synastry chart, Venus Conjunct Venus (4 degrees) and Venus Conjunct/Trine NN DW (3 degrees/3 degrees). Her Moon also Conjuncts His NN at 5 degrees.

Her Sun/Ascendant Midpoint = Gemini (5 degrees, 11 seconds)

His IC/4th House = Gemini (7 degrees, 5 seconds).

Degree for Aspect/Conjunction = 2 degrees, 6 seconds

And then this was REALLY bizarre.

Her NN/Ascendant Midpoint = Libra (12 degrees, 44 seconds)

HIS NN/Ascendant Midpoint = Libra (18 degrees, 49 seconds)

Degree of the Aspect(?)/Conjunction = 6 degrees, 5 seconds

IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?!?!? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?!?!?! (And please, don't insist on tightness of degree/orb.)

HIS Venus/NN Midpoint = Gemini (25 degrees, 28 seconds)

= Conjuncts HER Sun/Moon Midpoint at 8 degrees, 14 seconds.

= Conjuncts HER Moon at 5 degrees, 22 seconds (Moon = Gemini; 20 degrees, 46 seconds).

= Conjuncts HER Venus at 4 degrees, 5 seconds (Venus = Gemini; 29 degrees, 33 seconds).

So yes, that's how I read/interpret things and I'm looking for some overall meaning to these aspects, if any can be provided. Not an argument as to whether or not they're valid depending on tightness of orb/degree. Thank you for your indulgence, cooperation, and overall view of my post!

posted December 12, 2016 07:53 PM            

Honestly I do think 3 degrees is pushing it, but all's fair in love and orbs!!

... We do like to keep those midpoints pretty tight though. As soon as a planet or point gets 3 degrees away from any given midpoint, it is in the territory of a whole new set of midpoints and their meanings. The midpoints are so fast and thick in any given chart that you really don't need to make up reasons to be finding them relevant.

Which midpoint is ACTUALLY conjunct/square/opposite or semi/sesquisquare that Venus? This will tell you much more real information than trying to stretch the Sun/Moon midpoint to 8 degrees.

I know what you mean about resonance and all that, but in some cases you kinda gotta put your foot down.

posted December 12, 2016 08:29 PM            

Her Sun/Asc does = his IC

"In their synastry chart, they have an Exact Trine Between Her Sun and His Moon."

Sounds good...

"Their Moons Trine each other at 7 degrees."

Noteworthy, yes.

"Her Sun Conjuncts His Venus at 11 degrees (yes, I count it)"

Sure, you can count it. They're both inner planets after all. But like you say, it's just a spot purple paint on a red wall. It's not a purple wall.

"while Her Moon Conjuncts His Venus at 4 degrees."

That's enough right there.... there's really no need to validate an 11 degree conjunction when you have Moon conjunct Venus at 4 degrees of orb...

"Her Sun Trines His Ascendant at 2 degrees"

Nice!

"while His Sun Conjuncts Her Ascendant at 12 degrees (yes, I count that too)."

I think angle conjunctions can definitely be taken more liberally and would consider this conjunction as significant as well.

"Her Moon Trines His Ascendant at 9 degrees and His Moon Squares Her Ascendant at 13 degrees (yep, count that too)."

I think this is noteworthy because it is a double whammy, but it is SUPER wide for a trine, like really, really wide. If you want to practice like this, all the best to you, but you'll be getting wild readings which are not as accurate pr precise as they might be if you tightened the orbs.

These are all significant and interesting factors and it sounds like a meaningful relationship. The thing to do now is to focus on what it all really means for them and how it plays out and how it feels, right?

Take the orbs and the aspects you've noticed and find out what they mean to you, and to what extent...

As you say, it isn't black and white. It's not like "this is a conjunction and the cut-off for conjunctions is HERE so this isn't one"-- but knowing that, what DOES a wider one signify? A similar vibe, but not a super deep elementary compelling.

And you know why a tighter conjunction (within 3 degrees) means something? Ironically?

Midpoints. A wider conjunction/square/opposition doesn't have the same gravitas for the two people, because it doesn't hit off the same midpoints in each of their charts. And that really can't be compromised on because if we compromise on that it's kind of like we might as well be making up the whole system of astrology from scratch, which you're welcome to do of course if it is gratifying for you... but you won't find much support necessarily. Are you very Aquarian? Maybe you are seeing into the future when astrology is just an extension of our own minds and we can make up relevant meanings and they will come true! It kind of works like that after all... but then it kind of doesn't.

posted December 12, 2016 08:35 PM            

HIS NN/Ascendant Midpoint = Libra (18 degrees, 49 seconds)

Degree of the Aspect(?)/Conjunction = 6 degrees, 5 seconds

IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?!?!? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?!?!?! (And please, don't insist on tightness of degree/orb.)"

Of course it is possible. Many people have the same midpoints overlapping in chart comparisons. It does have some significance, but only at a tighter orb. You would know why if you observed any transiting or progressed planet crossing the midpoints in your chart for any length of time. You would see that when it is directly on top of the midpoint is when that energy is being activated.... not 8 degrees away... except in the case of the transiting angles, which I guess in that case you could maybe take this into account, a conjunction of midpoints between charts which is wider, because they will be feeling those similar things as the transiting Asc/IC/MC/Vertex/POF etc are transiting more quickly?... But yeah it's a stretch.

posted December 13, 2016 01:30 AM            

Hmmmm...*reads your responses*

I do appreciate and respect what you're saying. I suppose I do come ACROSS as Aquarian being that I hate following "tradition/the status quo" and rather like to challenge the rules. My NN is in Aquarius, as is my MC, if that helps.

I just find the "traditions" of astrology to be rather restricting and not so-easily bendable. For instance, there are many who would consider most aspects - especially the conjunction, opposition, and square - to be held at a "cut-off" standard, as opposed to the easier aspects. And somehow, that allows them to negate, ignore, or simply look-down-upon those aspects and say "they don't matter." I vehemently disagree.

My metaphor for the "red dot on the purple wall" was more about the fact that it blends in easily. That is, it's a bit harder to be seen - or felt, like a WIDER conjunction, opposition, or square - as opposed to an array of yellow, orange, blue, green, and black splatters all over it's purple-y canvas. The red dots would kind of get over-shadowed...unless, somewhere down along the line, it's tinge managed to catch one's eye and made you stop and think. It may take a long a time. It may not. All the same, that vivid red is still there, waiting to be discovered and appreciated.

In all honesty, I even wonder at times if I SHOULD bother learning about mid points. In reading my own personal mid-points, and how they're activated by certain planets, I realized I couldn't relate to any of them. And I thought "how odd," when they're supposed to have the more intimate knowledge of our core's blue-prints than just the planets and the angles. My friend relates to her Taurus Ascendant, but does note that there is certain weight to be added onto the pile with her Gemini stellium. Though it is often brought to her attention, by others, that she is NOT like other Gemini's.

However, I do wish to point out a personal example of her natal chart. She has Venus (Gemini) Trine her Pluto (Scorpio) at 13 degrees. Now, I agree completely that that is an EXTREMELY wide trine and not something that would normally be noted. However, for her, it is something that relates enormously to her character.

I found this general explanation to give to her:
http://astromatrix.org/Horoscopes/Planet-Aspects/Venus-Trine-Pluto

And after reading it, she found it be tremendously accurate, despite the debatable weight of the orb for the aspect. (She has also has very WIDE conjunctions, oppositions, and squares that are also felt, for the most part). But then again, this could be supported by/covered up by the tight Sun-Jupiter conjunction (both in Gemini; 3 degrees) she has going on in her natal.

I would just say that, despite tradition, it really depends on the individual and how that aspect affects them, whether it's a minor-almost-nothing-inconsequential-aspect or a simply-too-wide-to-be-felt-intimately-orb/degree. Science and knowledge are one thing, experience and emotions are another. But I don't totally disagree with the fundamentals of astrology! Only that I feel - and she agrees - that the rules should be more relaxed and not so readily rigid when confronted with unseen precedence, depending on the case.

I suppose, in her case, she's just trying to assure herself that her and her partner are TRUE soulmates and not something that can just be classified as a "meaningful relationship." It's important to her, as it's been a monumental chunk of her life spent feeling/having faith that, one day, such an individual - the soul mate she was meant to spend this life with - would be with her and that that was it. That they would be married and have a long life together, for good or for worse, and grow together. But more than anything, that the evidence would be there to back her up and say that "yes, this relationship is the one - he is your soul mate - and it is right." We have had many lengthy conversations about this.

In her heart, she truly feels that they are legitimate soulmates. But she worries that without all of the "legitimate" aspects/connections between them (there's no Venus/Mars aspect between them in their synastry chart. Only in the composite), that they AREN'T true soul mates. With her Sun, Moon, and Jupiter in His 4th - Her Venus in his 5th, along with her NN - I try to point out that they are. Their angles are conjunct at 7 degrees - ASC/MC & DSC/IC - and they have binding NN connections and some Vertex action (which I know a lot of people like to use only the harder aspects with - conjunction, opposition, and squares - but I also like to use the easier aspects because they DW's in some cases. Especially the other DW's going on with their NN's and ASC's). But the mid-points have her scared. So I suppose I was trying to figure out a way to soothe her.

I admit that I don't know much about them, nor take the time to truly study them. In fact, I almost never counted them as much. I personally have never felt anything from any of my mid-points either. Instead, I choose to focus on the planets, their aspects, and the angles and their aspects. Despite the size of the orb. I feel more relatable to those, as does she, but I thought I would take a stab at it. Oh well. I suppose some things are better left alone.

Still, I thank you for your knowledge and your time! It was most informative! Perhaps for some, mid-points are heavily weighed and considered important and readily felt...for others, well...her own mid-points are a bit wide, so perhaps they were never supposed to be felt or considered. I suppose I allow such leeway - with the orbs - due to the fact that there is usually 30 degrees between one sign and the other. For example. From 00 - 29, you have Aries. From 30 - 59, you have Taurus. And so on and so forth. Ultimately, you get the full 360 - a full circle - that encompasses all twelve signs. For Sun and Moon, I allow up to 15 degrees, in synastry, for conjunctions and oppositions. 12 degrees for trines and squares while sextiles get a whooping 9 degrees. I apply the same train-of-thought to angles as well, because they are so heavy, and much like the NN, can be felt in the air, despite the low vibration. Outside of those categories, I usually go lower for the other inner and outer planets, though the latter is slow moving.

At any rate, I hope you weren't offended by anything I said or indicated. It was not my intention. Just trying to procure information. Happy Cold Moon in Gemini to you and many thanks, again, for your time and effort! Much obliged!