posted February 03, 2017 04:02 PM            

Trying just to learn and understand the Astrology aspects here.
I believe we all have some level of narcissism, as it's the driving force behind why we get up each morning and tackle the day to create what we believe is best for us. That's a healthy ego/self-love. Obviously here we're talking about unhealthy narcissism.
I'm involved in a relationship with a woman who I've discovered is a classic narcissist. However, I believe in the Law of Attraction, and I've attracted this woman into my life. Did I miss the signs, or do I bring it out? I'm thinking her ex was a narcissist, but not sure.

Note: This can apply in ANY relationship synastry (parents, work, etc).

Here's some of her aspects:
Leo Sun - Leo certainly has a bad rap, but not all are narcissists.
Venus Square Saturn - Treats people harshly.
Saturn in Libra, 1st house - Basically says: "I over-emphasize MY needs/whats in the relationship that I MUST be in."
Jupiter Conj Mars in 1 & 2 deg Scorpio - Um, yeah.
Virgo Asc - Judgmental & criticizes often.
Nessus Square Mars - Much dark internal conflict.

But here's where I fit into this puzzle:
Her Jupiter/Mars squares my Moon AND Mercury. The way I see the world, how I think, approach tasks, my ideas, as well as my emotional needs & expression...are all perceived as a direct threat to Mars. I've just had to shut down. Anything I say in a conflict just makes it worse.
Also, her Nessus is conjunct my Moon. (Emotional abuse towards me?)

As well, my Neptune is in my 12th house ...I feel guilt & blame myself for the troubles.

And, of course, a narcissist manipulates their partner into believing that the partner is the problem source and needs to change. (She's literally said this to me.) This reinforces my own Neptune. <sigh>

So, is my energy (the synastry) bringing out narcissist behavior?
In other words, if I responded differently early on (ie, had different planetary aspects), would the outcome be different (no narcissist behavior)?

posted February 07, 2017 09:04 AM            

Her Sun sits in my North node.

posted February 07, 2017 07:42 PM            

As an aside:
What's quite fascinating (frustrating?) to me is...

cafeastrology.com
https://cafeastrology.com/synastry-2.html

My synastry compatibility analysis score with this woman is a +52.
Paul Newman & Joanne Woodward score a +59.

Though, it does explain why I find it emotionally impossible to just walk away.
And, yes, there are MANY things that I like about this woman and where we are on the same page, but I'm not deeply happy and I feel I've given up my identity to be in it. Can't say it to her, tho.

posted February 07, 2017 08:10 PM            

^^ my current feelings, please forgive the tone of "do this do that!" I'm sorry I can't be more thoughtful and understanding at the moment.

OK I can be though... forgive me. I'm processing a lot right now.

I identify so much with all of what you've said and where you're coming from and am very moved by your honesty and self awareness. I am just speaking from personal experience and where I'm at after a long LONG year of dealing with a narcissist/co-dependent relationship.

Finally getting on my own feet and it has taken a health crisis to shake me up and get me to really REALLY see that I need to put myself first. We all do. That's the ONLYway to have a healthy truly beneficial relationship. ( more preaching... I am loath to say "the only way")

Of course we must care about the other. But it is never caring to lose yourself to emotional vampirism when they'll just take advantage of it... and not even be benefited by it.

Sorry I know this wasn't really answering your question.

I know how it is to see deeply how the Narcissist is just mirroring and magnifying our own worst qualities, how we project and accept and in forgiving them perhaps can learn to forgive ourselves.

But that's a long road and certainly hard to stick out unless you really REALLY like the person.. I really like the person and have stuck it out like a madman. But I'm finding out I have to like myself more. We all do.

I liked the one article re narcissism I found which stressed the codependent... and it was noting how if we add codependents can set healthy boundaries the narcissist might rise to the occasion/they'll have to heighten their vibration to match or else leave.

I understand the disentanglement process is near impossible When you "really love them"

But that's Neptune/12th/pisces big shadow thing right... is sacrificing yourself for something. It's not romantic. It is just losing yourself and dissolving yourself and there is no Thunderclap or congratulations or true love at the end... well OK maybe after death! But even then I think it's more likely we'd look back and go sh*t, I really should have stood my ground and taken care of myself first back there lol.. maybe hey

I know it's more complicated than all this but then maybe not really.

If you want to be free of a narcissist (it sounds like you might not, but if you do), then you need to stop being a codependent. They really are two sides of the same coin and the line can be blurry.

posted February 07, 2017 08:34 PM            

narcissists never operate alone.

They always have another side of the coin. The thing about narcissism is that these folks literally don't feel they can survive without another person. It's very very similar to the codependent.

Truth is we all need one another. It's just how ruthless are we going to be about getting what we need--and what are our particular needs--and why do some of us need to feel better than everyone else?

That need is epidemic. Low grade narcissism is also epidemic

the illusion of separation is the cause of suffering...

it always comes back to that for me.

Favoritism and the need to be special cause the majority of the lateral violence in our world.

If we could remember and truly live life knowing that we are connected, that we are not isolated entities, we would not feel or cause harm in the same ways because we would know that that which we do to one another we truly do to ourselves.

so that's how I try to operate with my friend I'm referring to... knowing he is part of me and I am part of him.

But I need to find my healthy boundary and honour myself as a whole. While it's true that I'm connected to everything everything isn't the same. I'm my own little world. I know I project and experience the things I do because of this in large part. I am working on real healing and self forgiveness. It is not enough just to forgive the other and hope they'll stop. You need to forgive yourself and stop believing you deserve it.

for me as an ultra Neptunian who has strong overtones of Saturn on my Moon/Neptune (in Capricorn, conjunct Saturn)--I am challenged by this because I do lose my boundaries and find them in funny places... OK rambling not stringing it all together... can't touch the mystery andeexplain it all!

But overall I guess on a more practical level... I try to be gentle with myself about all of this. I try to see how it's a process. What a very intense and transformative process!

posted February 08, 2017 02:30 AM            

what do you think about this theory: hard aspects of outer planets triggering narcissism?

* especially the clash of the planets pluto, saturn and jupiter in synastry

the case I have in mind, have in synastry:

his saturn conjunct her pluto (the orb is 2)

his jupiter square her pluto (the orb is 2)

her jupiter square his pluto (the orb is 4)

her saturn square his pluto (the orb is 4)

the guards will be up (pluto) and each person will try to defend their own beliefs (jupiter) or structures (saturn). if things get out of control, there will happen some sort of harsh and cold criticism, or even going out of one's way to prove the other person wrong or humiliate them.

actually I have found the situation to be similar when there are harsh pluto/saturn/jupiter aspects in the composite as well.

posted February 08, 2017 07:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ScandinavianCrab:
Sounds like My sons mother....

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Your son's mother?

Should we assume you mean your step-son's mother?

posted February 08, 2017 07:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
^^ my current feelings, please forgive the tone of "do this do that!" I'm sorry I can't be more thoughtful and understanding at the moment.

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No worries at all. It was very well-received and feel your sincerity. Thank you.

My Neptune, Jupiter and Mars are all in my 12th in Sag, trine my Cancer Moon & Sextile my MC, with my Asc at 27 Sag.
Personally, I think it's a peculiar mix.

I'll post more soon.

P.S. She didn't remember TODAY is my birthday, but I didn't expect it and I'm not feeling very guilty about it. I intentionally didn't bring it up. Just quietly observing and learning from the experience.