posted July 12, 2018 05:50 AM            

What happens when a T-square is formed via synastry?

I'm wondering about people with oppositions in their natal, and how they go when someone makes a T-square by squaring both ends of that opposition.

Does this square that is T-squaring the opposition via synastry bring pleasant relief to the tension of that opposition for that person with the opposition?

What about the synastry relationship with each other? Does the square maybe create too much tension? And maybe that tension is directed to the person who is squaring?

Please share thought and experiences.

Is it a core thing in your relationship? Can you get stuck in it? Is it binding? Is the squaring person an attractive or repelling force? Is it stressful in your relationship?

posted July 12, 2018 06:17 PM            

Lemme give you some background. My husband has a stellium of planets at the base of his chart (Saturn-10 degrees Libra, Jupiter-14 degrees libra and mercury-17 degrees libra. Pluto and Venus is in his 4th house too but further away). His moon at 10 degrees Aries is at the top of his chart conjunct his MC-13 degrees Aries.

My moon, at almost 10 degrees of Capricorn, forms the t-square.

It isn’t always the case of an imbalance between one extreme over the other as some may imagine with an opposition. There is a blending of imbalanced extremes, especially when immature.

Sometimes, he’s outwardly impulsive and selfish (Aires), and at others emotinally manipulative and passive-aggressive (Libra). Usually though, he passive-aggressively tries to act on and justify his impulses... Saying one thing, doing the complete opposite then acting like I’m some cruel headmistress. He resists my lunar influence.

I’m the voice of reason. The one saying, “do you think that’s smart? Slow down. What’s the better alternative?” His ASC is at 19 degrees cancer. I don’t really consider it as helping in this dynamic because it just aids in his perception of being victimized and treating himself like an innocent baby. Funny thing is, he’s not receptive to me unless I approach in a nurturing, cancerian way.

There is definitely lots of tension and I do feel like it’s directed towards me (or lots of pressure is on me to handle it properly), but I wouldn’t call it negative. Unpleasant but necessary. We just had our 17th anniversary. He told me, “thank you for controlling me!” I was ****** ! I don’t want to “control” him. I don’t feel like we’re equal partners. He’s like a child. He’ll say that he knows that I’m right, but he doesn’t care. He deflects a lot. Projects a lot. Tries to paint me in a harsh light.

Lemme give you an example...

We have different income sources. One has been specifically reserved for his discretionary use, BUT he will purchase things using accounts funded by other sources. As our money manager, I don’t like it when he does this. He doesn’t tell me about it. I’m not prepared for it. If I don’t notice it, he won’t mention it. When I do notice it, he’ll say he just forgot to tell me. This happens over and over and over and over again. He has a generous budget, but he’s insatiable. He does this to try to double his spending ability. If I let him, he’d bankrupt us. Our most recent compromise is: when you “accidentally” use the wrong account, you need to replace the funds.

The other day, he did it again! I noticed it, asked about it, he got annoyed. He told me something that suggested he didn’t have money to replace what he spent, which annoys me because it violates what we agreed to. I got upset. The story morphed. He had the money but it “wasn’t in his pocket” or somewhere “immediately accessible” (the taunting/passive-aggressive, low-functioning libran behavior), so I’m being unreasonable and emotionally volatile. This is the point where it’s up to me to sort it all out.

*I* wasn’t the one being emotionally volatile!!! “HE” was upset, knew he had no reasonable reason to be, but wanted what he wanted. Instead of doing the responsible thing, he chose to try to create the illusion that somehow, I was being irresponsible. In the past, my reactions were dramatic enough to overshadow whatever he did. It was overly harsh (Capricorn) and I felt guilty. Nowadays, Im better at holding him accountable. I had to revisit what happened from the beginning... point out that what he said suggested that he was spending money he didn’t have. Where a “yes” or “no” would have sufficed, he instead responded suggestively with something that was objectively upsetting. Why? This is his way of deflecting and projecting. Stir a crazy reaction from me and I’ll be the one apologizing.

posted July 15, 2018 09:59 AM            

Sounds like a petulant and goading Aries, I feel your Capricorn Moon's struggle! I hope it has some supporting aspects (does it?). So I'm assuming that your Moon falls in his H6 then. Which, for memory, I think is an ok position for the Moon, and I guess more ok for a Cap Moon than any other. That's lucky! Funny how things work out.

It's fair to say then that in your experience, that opposition pendulum energy/blending of imbalanced extremes is "kicked" out and projected onto the synastry T-ing planet.

Are there any easier aspects from you to either end of his opposition? It would help to lighten things.

Also to consider, the dynamics of T-ing through synastry would vary depending what planets are involved. Which just makes it all the more interesting. For example: a Saturn opposite Mars would have a different impact on a Moon T-ing it. And also, if/whether there are easier aspects to channel some tension anywhere. If there were none for the Moon, I don't think it would cope and actually may be a red flag for abuse.

posted July 15, 2018 05:26 PM            

I love to see geometric patterns in synastry especially the T-square!! and grand cross and more! it can generate a lot of attraction!!!

it depends on the planets, rulers, signs were dealing with (all of this only tells us the story of the dynamic these two people engage in energetically) if that makes sense.

for example,

my chart ruler is venus in sag square Jupiter in virgo...when someone's mars in gemini makes aspect to this less then 4 degrees USUALLY i' am physically attracted to this person almost instantly! however i have had instances where I' am not physically attracted to the person and often feel repulsed by them! annoyed by them! which isn't good. I have had instances where the interest was not 100% mutual when dealing with the passionate combination of planets VENUS/MARS.

NOT DEALING WITH ROMANTIC encounters let me tell you when it comes to FAMILY ENCOUNTERS...my in law who I clash with has her Mercury in gemini conjunct her MC square her Moon in pisces/descendant. My venus conjuncts her IC and my Jupiter conjuncts her Ascendant/12th house. We clash because she is very snobby and thinks she is RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING and thinks she is soooo SMART! she fills a grand cross with my planets and I also do the same for her!

as I said I believe these geometric patterns can either be very harmonious or disharmonious depending on how these two people are in real life.

I think geometric patterns are very crucial when it comes to relationships, love etc. IT IS HIGHLY IMPORTANT because these aspects ENCOURAGE SOUL GROWTH between two people and as I' am saying this I wanna say this can also be KARMIC SIGNATURE were dealing with here.

I also want to mention the instant attraction that I feel when it comes to my natal venus in sag square jupiter in virgo I FEEL ASTEROID CUPIDO CONJUNCT my JUPITER can contribute to this instant attraction feeling as well.

I often notice when dealing with the love asteroids the geometric patterns can generate so much attraction as well!

posted July 15, 2018 08:21 PM            

But if the aspect in question is of a more problematic one, which would be with malefactors, then that might create a cautiousness sensation when being triggered by an aspect, and might be a repellent, depending on the rest of the chart and the experiences of the people. Like in my example above then, might be prudent to watch out for cruelty/abuse (Saturn), power-games (Pluto) or violence (Mars).

posted July 21, 2018 01:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
I hope it has some supporting aspects (does it?). So I'm assuming that your Moon falls in his H6 then. Which, for memory, I think is an ok position for the Moon, and I guess more ok for a Cap Moon than any other. That's lucky! Funny how things work out.

It's fair to say then that in your experience, that opposition pendulum energy/blending of imbalanced extremes is "kicked" out and projected onto the synastry T-ing planet.

Are there any easier aspects from you to either end of his opposition? It would help to lighten things.

Also to consider, the dynamics of T-ing through synastry would vary depending what planets are involved. Which just makes it all the more interesting. For example: a Saturn opposite Mars would have a different impact on a Moon T-ing it. And also, if/whether there are easier aspects to channel some tension anywhere. If there were none for the Moon, I don't think it would cope and actually may be a red flag for abuse.

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Sorry so late! I just realized you asked follow-up questions.

My mercury sextiles his moon and trines his Saturn, so it forms half a kite (is that called a wedge?!). Mercury is my chart ruler and domicile in Gemini in my 12th house, which I think helps in many ways, especially with self-reflection and empathy. With all my experience with Aries moons, it is a formidable energy. If I wasn’t a first house sun, I’d have no chance with this particular t-square. 😂 I could have lost myself.

Potentially Abusive? We had our moments. Mostly, it’s emotional abuse. He’s a Venus in Scorpio too (conjunct my Jupiter), so that doesn’t always help. While so far, this may sound very Plutonian, I read that Saturn square or opposite moon is about love feeling conditional or having conditions placed on giving and receiving love.

A large part of our marriage involved me taking responsibility for his bad behavior, which was a painful experience. There is an acronym used to describe the “transactional dynamics” of emotional blackmail: FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt! This is exactly how this t-square operates. Love is leverage.

I’ve been told that I’m “horrible(!) and no one else is capable of loving me!” “You’re lucky to have me.”

Are you kidding me!? 😂

We’re a year apart, so I also have Saturn in Libra squaring my moon in about a 5 degree orb (mars too). Obviously, I had some of my own issues I needed (need) to work out! I already feel like I’m too harsh to be loved! Lol. He doesn’t think twice about leveraging those insecurities to upset me and stimulate a reaction I’ll feel guilty about. Saturn squares my nodes as well (I have NN in Cancer, 2nd house). Soul growth? Life lesson? Absolutely! Now, I don’t believe the things I was told (or the things he tells me) so no need for consolation here. Although, I did stop to second-guess myself and wondered if it were true, eventually, I came to understand the underlying dynamics behind those comments (12th house domicile Mercury).

My point is, soul growth, transformation, binding pattern completions, attraction... these aren’t necessarily things to be romanticized and idealized (says the 7th house Neptune! 😝 ). It’s painful. Some people don’t learn the things they need to. Without a strong sense of self and a healthy value system, I wouldn’t have been able to successfully traverse the “FOG”. That’s why I say, “I could have lost myself”.

The example in my previous post may seem superficial but it’s not. It may seem like a textbook example involving money, Saturn, Capricorn and the 10th house, but it’s much deeper. I have a 7th house moon. We had an agreement. A contract. He broke it. That offends me deeply. I feel like he undermines my efforts to manage our finances. Ignores my opinions. Is dismissive about how that makes me feel. I guess I project my expectations that he be considerate of our mutual roles and responsibilities within our arrangements and that he prioritize these things when making decisions ... his moon is his chart ruler - a defining part of who he is. Conjunct the MC, he puts a lot of value on status and things that communicate status. The car he drives. The things he owns. The things he thinks will help him get attention. Getting accolades. Being acknowledged. He has an emotional attachment to these things like I have to fairness and following through on my agreements. When I tell him we don’t have money for something, I think he feels a little robbed of his identity. He takes it personal where I just see it as product of our circumstances. Also, as a first house sun, I find him to be a little too impressionable.

It’s like we have to have this high definition awareness of our emotional patterns and fight against the unhealthy ones. It’s hard to notice and understand these patterns because of the subconscious and automatic nature of our lunar condition. That awareness is what I am most grateful for. I may sound like a masochist, but no other placement but the impulsive, selfish little Aries moon could have inspired the emotional development it has 🤣.

I agree with you. I think how a t-square manifests depends on the planets involved, their role in the natal chart and the individual’s circuitry.

I don’t know if the energy is projected towards me because I have the T-ing planet or because it’s the moon of a man and an energy that is already prone to projection. I think I notice the pull to the opposite extremes. I see the stress of it developing and I intervene. My influence isn’t pleasant. It feels like a necessary evil.

posted July 23, 2018 09:10 PM            

Thank you for your incredible share. What a strong and evolved person I feel I'm talking to.. I'm still mulling over your generous response. You've not only regarded the post query, but you've deepened it with your personal story. Which I really appreciate the time taken (my Venus is at 10 degrees cap btw ).

I always look over my comments and see how I could've articulated better, lol. I always find it hard to pose the queries I have in mind. Guess, what I was trying to say, if I was to correct/make more clear here (for anyone else who's listening), is that, malefactor planets in the natal opposition will create a different tone than benefactors. This, at surface, might seem to be stating the obvious, but, the devil is truly in the detail. Because the variance in the potential planets (malefactors or benefactors) of the opposition could, in the end, create a significant impact and variance to the relationship (obviously it depends on the evolution of the people too but just using simplicity here to support complex points). And of course, too, any trines or sextiles ("wedging" - you're correct!) made to that other person's opposition - either from the synastry, or in that natal chart itself - will provide some "good" channeling and support for the tension of the opposition.

Yes, you're right.. [and it's funny because I've been pondering this strongly of late! Trying to take personal responsibility in my life!] A strong sense of self is so important. I say ego though because a strong sense of "self" might still be possible (12H, or Libra/other-people-focus), but, if it's not a sense of Sun-self (ego) that is individuated strongly, one might lose oneself (as you describe) from being too malleable/reasonable/forgiving/dissociated/giving .. etc etc.. If any of that makes sense ? You need a strong self-focus.

I'll keep pondering your response now, and your journey too. Thanks for sharing

Also, there's not a lot of info I can find on the net about squaring the opposition by synastry OR transit, MAKING the T-square. Mostly I find articles and snippets about the empty leg of an already, natally formed T-square. I find this surprising because the odds are higher that we have a square or opposition in our charts, and thus more likely that a t-square will occur in synastry (and transit).

posted July 23, 2018 10:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
Thank you for your incredible share. my Venus is at 10 degrees cap btw .

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Awww, it’s conjunct my moon! 🤗 You already knew that though.

I was told twice in my lifetime, “you need to be responsible for the things you don’t say” (once in the 6th grade and once in college). I guess I feel a responsibility to share what may be helpful to others.

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
I always look over my comments and see how I could've articulated better, lol. I always find it hard to pose the queries I have in mind.

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Me too! I just reread some of the stuff I wrote in the past 😲🤦🏻‍♀️! Like, really? That was me!? Only now noticing all the conceptual and grammatical errors... I want to find every post I made and edit it! That 12th house mercury of mine is sloppy! Lol. The Virgos here must be pulling out their hair! 😂

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
Also, there's not a lot of info I can find on the net about squaring the opposition by synastry OR transit, MAKING the T-square. Mostly I find articles and snippets about the empty leg of an already, natally formed T-square. I find this surprising because the odds are higher that we have a square or opposition in our charts, and thus more likely that a t-square will occur in synastry (and transit).

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Agree with everything you said.

The empty leg was important in our interaction. I mention my husband not responding well to me unless I approached in nurturing way.

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
What a strong and evolved person I feel I'm talking to.

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If this is the way I come across, I think it’s because I had to learn to balance the Cancer/Capricorn axis. My NN is in Cancer after all. 🙂 I had to learn to nurture myself too.

posted July 23, 2018 10:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
I think.in the case of a square adding a leg to the tsquare is more beneficial, but it puts the pressure on the Apex planet. Squares are locked in combat, and the t gives another out. In the case where the opposition exists, the Apex planet becomes the "decider" and both opposition planets are... resentful?... of the intrusion because now an outside force is making them balance.

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posted July 23, 2018 10:58 PM            

How is playing out is that his mars opposite pluto find my venus conjunct mars a perfect spot to release all the tension his Mars opposite pluto on his angles may be feeling, like an explosion, it sure seems that way.

posted July 23, 2018 11:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Well he has Mars opposite Pluto on his AC and my venus and mars square his opposition, the sex is amazing, I don't think his mars opposite pluto resent my venus conjunct mars, at least with this particular tsquare it doesn't feel like is playing out like that..

How is playing out is that his mars opposite pluto find my venus conjunct mars a perfect spot to release all the tension his Mars opposite pluto on his angles may be feeling, like an explosion, it sure seems that way.

I am not balancing out anything, I am helping him release with my venus conjunct mars at the apex the tension of his mars opposite pluto. I should add my alma conjunct lust conjunct exact his mars too and that sextiles my abundantia and forms a Yod with my Pluto which squares his nodes.

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Yes.. and this is part of the exploration of my query, and why I said that the devil is truly in the detail: if it was you moon squaring.. it might be a whole and quite completely different relationship! One that may not be healthy at all for a lil moon.

You have two planets that can hold some ground, and Mars has some force to push back and defend too. I find the odds of a good fit fascinating! The odds of his opposition finding a square that will fit ok. Not to mention the rest of the planets in the synastry combination.

Also, the length of the relationship is relevant (and of interest); sex is always a high activity in the early period of a relationship (referring here to the traditional sexual implications of these planets involved: Pluto, Mars, Venus). What happens after several years though? This is just a rhetorical question for the discussion, not meaning to imply anything scary about your synastry for the future!

posted July 23, 2018 11:26 PM            

I sense your Saturn journey, that your understanding has come from effort and lessons. And your manner of communicating feels to me integrated and "rounded", coming from reflection, intuition, testing and your own hard work, rather than just relaying data. It's hard to squish all those concepts into 2 dimensional language. Feels ok to my 12H Venus anyhow

Glad you moving toward your NN Cancer and taking care of yourself

posted July 24, 2018 12:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
^^ I guess a possible negative side effect from that tsquare is that he sees me as someone who can make all his sexual fantasies come true and puts pressure on me to make them come true LOL but best sex I have ever had so liking the tsquare and pluto mars double whammy we have (square and inconjunction).

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posted July 24, 2018 01:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:

Yes.. and this is part of the exploration of my query, and why I said that the devil is truly in the detail: if it was you moon squaring.. it might be a whole and quite completely different relationship! One that may not be healthy at all for a lil moon.

You have two planets that can hold some ground, and Mars has some force to push back and defend too. I find the odds of a good fit fascinating! The odds of his opposition finding a square that will fit ok. Not to mention the rest of the planets in the synastry combination.

Also, the length of the relationship is relevant (and of interest); sex is always a high activity in the early period of a relationship (referring here to the traditional sexual implications of these planets involved: Pluto, Mars, Venus). What happens after several years though? This is just a rhetorical question for the discussion, not meaning to imply anything scary about your synastry for the future!

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Possibly, you bring up a good question, if my moon was there instead maybe it would feel too vulnerable between his mars and pluto both squaring it as perhaps I would fall very hard for him fast, he would have all the power, too much power, I guess you are right is a good thing that my mars is at the apex along with my venus, he is attracted to my femininity but his mars opposite pluto will not overpower me and I hold my own with my mars there and surrender willingly. Add that his mars trines my sun and his pluto trines my moon both exact, it seems his mars opposite pluto is releasing itself all over my chart. Its the perfect set up for him perhaps although I enjoy him VERY much...we also have mars inconjunct and square pluto so a mars/pluto double whammy and venus sentagon pluto/venus square pluto.

posted July 24, 2018 01:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by angel4845:
T-square in my opinion when analyzing charts of married couples, and couples in general often have T-squares in synastry and/or composite!!

I love to see geometric patterns in synastry especially the T-square!! and grand cross and more! it can generate a lot of attraction!!!

it depends on the planets, rulers, signs were dealing with (all of this only tells us the story of the dynamic these two people engage in energetically) if that makes sense.

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Lots of attraction [or entrapment ], sure. Some questions though are: what kind, and what for (release tension on some willing victim possibly if Mars is involved).

And attraction for who, mostly, if we are to delineate (for fun)? I speculate that (if we just isolate this configuration and not consider the whole charts and synastry), it is the person with the opposition that will feel the impact, because the square will suggest a release from the tension of the opposition. But that's just me speculating theoretically for fun.

quote:

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for example,

my chart ruler is venus in sag square Jupiter in virgo...when someone's mars in gemini makes aspect to this less then 4 degrees USUALLY i' am physically attracted to this person almost instantly! however i have had instances where I' am not physically attracted to the person and often feel repulsed by them! annoyed by them! which isn't good. I have had instances where the interest was not 100% mutual when dealing with the passionate combination of planets VENUS/MARS.

NOT DEALING WITH ROMANTIC encounters let me tell you when it comes to FAMILY ENCOUNTERS...my in law who I clash with has her Mercury in gemini conjunct her MC square her Moon in pisces/descendant. My venus conjuncts her IC and my Jupiter conjuncts her Ascendant/12th house. We clash because she is very snobby and thinks she is RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING and thinks she is soooo SMART! she fills a grand cross with my planets and I also do the same for her!

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Interesting!

quote:

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as I said I believe these geometric patterns can either be very harmonious or disharmonious depending on how these two people are in real life.

I think geometric patterns are very crucial when it comes to relationships, love etc. IT IS HIGHLY IMPORTANT because these aspects ENCOURAGE SOUL GROWTH between two people and as I' am saying this I wanna say this can also be KARMIC SIGNATURE were dealing with here.

I also want to mention the instant attraction that I feel when it comes to my natal venus in sag square jupiter in virgo I FEEL ASTEROID CUPIDO CONJUNCT my JUPITER can contribute to this instant attraction feeling as well.

I often notice when dealing with the love asteroids the geometric patterns can generate so much attraction as well!

It has binding effect yes but like i said i think we to see the situation between two people first and then analyze the planets, signs, houses were dealing with first.

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Thanks angel4845, I just saw your post and still thinking it over. Yes, the whole picture is vital.. planets involved, rulers etc, and of course the peeps themselves! And yes "soul growth" that's what we call it lol Just having a laugh out loud at the fun times I've had with my soul growth that wasn't fun at all. Not at you

Thanks for your thoughts and insights! I don't have any oppositions so I've always been curious about them. Sounds like you might not either.

posted July 24, 2018 01:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ReachingForTheStars:
This is just great! 🤦🏻‍♀️ You get a “best sex of my life” tsquare! 😧 I feel so robbed right now! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

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Don't get too jealous, my love life is no fairy tale trust me

posted July 24, 2018 01:39 AM            

Also, maybe it's worth considering that people with a challenging opposition might have a history of troubled relationships? Maybe it does take that right one to come along and be able to manage their opposition tension in just the right way, and in a way that is good for both people?

Anyhow.. keep up posted down the line as to your progress if you want/remember to.

posted July 24, 2018 01:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
FWIW, Mars square Venus in synastry is hot AF to begin with. So, throw in an extra dose of Mars and Pluto... Yeah, I can see it...

Just watch out for arguments. They have potential to be hot as well.

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Yes GB I know you always mention that you love that aspect, apparently I love it too if pluto is also hitting my venus/mars. I am starting to appreciate why you love this aspect.

posted July 24, 2018 01:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
hypatia238, you sure have a mix.. maybe those extra outlet points for the opposition will be just the right amount to guide and soften.

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Yes I think it helps me have access to his soft side which he tries so hard to pretend he doesn't have but there is a crack there and I have some access to it, light comes in.

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:

Also, maybe it's worth considering that people with a challenging opposition might have a history of troubled relationships? Maybe it does take that right one to come along and be able to manage their opposition tension in just the right way, and in a way that is good for both people?

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posted July 24, 2018 02:05 AM            

I'd personally be wary of a guy who claimed his ex was BP. But that's just me. And anyway we don't have the rest of his chart.