posted December 25, 2018 09:34 AM            

I have been researching on this house placement and found a voice recording which explains it in great detail - https://evolutionaryastrology.net/comp_pluto_4h/2015-06-17-14-08-segment-2-webinar-class-composite-pluto-in-4th-house/

Although I don't believe in past life stuff but it says due to past life separations by external forces, they act out their insecurities in this partnership and often feel threatened by a fear of being abandoned by their partner. They thus become controlling, manipulative etc and tend to close off their relationship from others who threaten to break them up. They will experience periods of intense togetherness (joined at the hips) and struggles for personal growth. One or both of them can also become confronting and demanding.

Their relationship can also be threatened by their careers or family interference. Children will become vehicles to help them heal. There could be stepchildren.

They desire to build a secure relationship (home...children...), have an intense need to be together and are able to love and accept each other unconditionally.

The urge to merge is intense and sexual merging can be emotionally intense and will serve as a vehicle to renew the souls. Even when they sleep, they need to embrace to feel emotionally secure. On the negative, one partner may use sex to control the other.

The resolution is to build inner emotional securities and understand where their fears come from. They each need to mature and learn how to respond, not react, to one another. They also need to learn (as a couple) not to allow others to interfere with their relationship.

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posted December 25, 2018 12:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Hikaru29:
I wonder if anyone has experienced this?

I have been researching on this house placement and found a voice recording which explains it in great detail - https://evolutionaryastrology.net/comp_pluto_4h/2015-06- 17-14-08-segment-2-webinar-class-composite-pluto-in-4th-house/

Although I don't believe in past life stuff but it says due to past life separations by external forces, they act out their insecurities in this partnership and often feel threatened by a fear of being abandoned by their partner. They thus become controlling, manipulative etc and tend to close off their relationship from others who threaten to break them up. They will experience periods of intense togetherness (joined at the hips) and struggles for personal growth. One or both of them can also become confronting and demanding.

Their relationship can also be threatened by their careers or family interference. Children will become vehicles to help them heal. There could be stepchildren.

They desire to build a secure relationship (home...children...), have an intense need to be together and are able to love and accept each other unconditionally.

The urge to merge is intense and sexual merging can be emotionally intense and will serve as a vehicle to renew the souls. Even when they sleep, they need to embrace to feel emotionally secure. On the negative, one partner may use sex to control the other.

The resolution is to build inner emotional securities and understand where their fears come from. They each need to mature and learn how to respond, not react, to one another. They also need to learn (as a couple) not to allow others to interfere with their relationship.

---

posted December 26, 2018 04:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
Wow all of this with having Pluto in the 4th house? I wouldn't think it would be so intense. Being as though the 4th house is about the home and nothing sexual.

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4th house reps home, security, intimacy/privacy (think Cancer) and Pluto being here brings an intense/obsessive need to feel secure in the relationship, then possessing/controlling/owning each other through sex is entirely possible. And when you bring such feelings into sex, it will feel deeply emotional. I think our Pluto squaring Sun/Venus/Mercury adds to the intensity. I'm thinking our Composite Pluto will make us go crazy unless we evolve and change.

Anyway, those are just possible manifestations. You may experience some, not all.

This is a very watered down version of Pluto in 4th https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtk8YECvZlY . It is from this video that I became curious of the personal insecurities in the individuals...thus leading me to the long recorded version.

Also, the traditional interpretation (see below) of Composite Pluto in 4th doesn't resonate with me. I also have this placement with my dad (and it conjuncts Venus) and I've never experienced any pressure/stress living with him. In fact, we enjoy a very peaceful co-existence. My dad is possessive of me though...he has told me before that he wished to live with me forever (lol).

posted December 26, 2018 04:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
I'd like to know about this as well.

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posted December 26, 2018 06:53 AM            

Our SN is Taurus in 11th house so I guess we will struggle with being a unit vs being part of a larger group (friends/acquaintances/strangers) as this threatens our sense of security within the relationship. Our Pluto is in Libra so I believe we will both strive to seek fairness and balance and we can get obsessed trying to achieve it.

posted December 26, 2018 07:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Hikaru29:
Do you have this in Composite with someone?

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posted December 26, 2018 08:17 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
Yes Pluto in Scorpio and South Node in the 3rd house.

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posted February 03, 2019 04:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vansio:
Wow... this really resonated with me. My longest partnership, Sun/Moon/Pluto in 4th house. Venus In 5th. Jupiter conjunct ASC.

What hit home the most was the sleeping completely embraced coiled with one other. Every day, for three years straight. It was so utterly naturally for us. I knew things were not ok the nights this didn’t happen.

I also agree with the other things. Thanks for sharing.

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posted February 03, 2019 10:13 PM            

I'm not sure how mine will turn out but the unconditional love part sounds about right.

posted February 06, 2019 12:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vansio:
Hikaru, yes. To describe it would be to go into depth (Pluto) and for that I do not feel comfortable writing personal on this forum. This separation is still very close to me. If you are interested, maybe we discuss this privately.

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Sure, let's converse in private. But how do we exchange email addresses because I understand we can't post them here?

We also have a busy 5th house with Davison Moon conjunct NN & Priapus. Uranus and Cupido are also in 5th but not conjunct.

I'm wondering if Pluto in 4th will cause too much stress as ours is also conjunct Karma.

posted November 19, 2019 10:08 PM            

quote:

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PLUTO IN THE FOURTH HOUSE OR CANCER

Composite Pluto in the Fourth House or Cancer will correlate to a couple who has had a mutual desire to create a tightly structured reality through which to feel safe and secure. These types of desires are a reaction to prior lifetimes in which various kinds of circumstances or interpersonal dynamics have occurred which caused great emotional upheavals. This would include separation from one another, either through forces that were beyond their control, or because of problems between them that lead to the necessity of separation, even though neither one really wanted to separate. The specific causes leading to separation can be determined in each case by examining the conditions symbolized by the house and sign of the composite Pluto, stressful aspects that it may be making to other planets and the houses and signs of those planets, the location of the South Node by house and sign, and the placement of its planetary ruler by house and sign. Examine closely the stressful aspects that the South Node is making to other planets, and the stressful aspects that its planetary ruler is making to other planets.

Whatever the conditions may be, a couple with a composite Pluto in the Fourth House or Cancer will be deeply insecure because of the separations in prior lifetimes. There can be an intense fear of being threatened by external forces, or of suddenly being left by the partner. This fear, and the reaction to it, has been a causal factor in creating different situations within the relationship, and reactions to the external environment. Within the most recent of past lifetimes, the reaction to those separations has been to secure the relationship. For example, within the relationship one may have attempted to emotionally control and manipulate the other. The forms of such control and manipulation can range from creating emotional and psychological conditions wherein one is made to feel absolutely dependent on the other, to creating conditions of psychological and emotional terror and fear wherein one or the other is afraid to leave, to creating a mutual situation wherein each compulsively focuses on the existing emotional wounds of the other in such a way as to create a de facto parental dynamic, to a situation in which each alternates between the roles of helper and helped. This effectively maintains not only mutual dependency, but also the wounds which neither one really wants to heal. Either partner could also use emotional withdrawal as a way of inducing insecurity in the other in order to emotionally manipulate them into meeting their needs.

The reaction to the external environment, relative to this underlying insecurity, has been to close off the relationship as much as possible from the impact of anyone, or anything, that could pose any potential threat. In combination, these reactions within the relationship and to the external environment have produced a situation of intense psychological and emotional proximity to one another. The intensity of proximity has created a high degree of emotional compression within the relationship. This emotional compression has produced cycles of silent internalization together, and cycles of emotional interaction that can range from total togetherness to total emotional explosions of a confrontational nature. Excessive proximity has psychological and emotional distortions, and a lack of "breathing room." As a result, each can harbor anger relative to the feeling of being restricted in their personal development. Each can blame the other without ever realizing that both have had a simultaneous need to keep the relationship close and proximate, but also to step outside the relationship in order to engage in independent activity. These dual desires or needs have created an emotional paradox within the relationship. Without realizing that this paradox originates from within, each partner blames the other for their own feelings of being contained and restricted.

The inherent danger with composite Pluto in the Fourth House or Cancer is one wherein the couple keeps recreating conditions that are echoes, remnants, and reflections of other lifetimes in which the separations took place. The fear of separation can be so strong, and the issues in past lifetimes so unresolved, that the couple keeps unconsciously projecting those conditions into the current life. In this way, forever living in the past, they effectively keep recreating the very conditions that produced the fears of loss in the first place. Thus, the relationship cannot ever feel secure and safe. Even during the cycles in which the relationship does feel close, safe, and secure, the unconscious fear that this condition may end creates conditions that lead to intense insecurity. This syndrome represents the evershifting rug under the feet of the relationship, so to speak.

Amazingly enough, these ever-shifting emotional cycles are intentional from an evolutionary point of view. The evolutionary intention symbolized by Pluto in the composite Fourth House or Cancer is for the couple to penetrate together to the very causes of their different emotional dynamics and states, both as a couple and as individuals. This correlates to their desire for self-knowledge at an emotional level and for the knowledge of the emotional basis of their fears for the relationship. The key is to create a conscious intention to focus on the causes for the different emotional states or dynamics, and not to become simply become engulfed and lost in those emotions. The additional challenge contained in composite Pluto in the Fourth House or Cancer has been for each of them to create conditions of developing a state of inner security with each other as individuals. This intention can be very hard to consciously understand, because most people on Earth generally project their security needs outside of themselves, forming dependencies of all kinds. Yet until such a couple grasps and understands this intention, the projection on one another to get their security needs met will persist in the ways that we have been discussing.

The intention to penetrate to the causes of the different emotional states that manifest individually and within the relationship can cause either or both to take the role of a psychological interrogator. The person in this role will attempt to penetrate and demand explanations for whatever the other has or has not done---"Why did you do this, why did you do that, what was the reason for this or that, what were your motives or intentions for this or that," and so on. This can create a situation wherein the interrogated partner feels like they are being emotionally and psychologically raped. What motivates this type of behavior is the fear of emotional dishonesty, the fear of trust, and the need to be the "one and only" to the other---the most important person ever in the other's life.

Pluto in the composite Fourth House or Cancer can also correlate to a couple who, in evolutionary terms, has just recently switched gender roles. Previously, the man had been the woman and the woman had been the man. This can create its own unique set of emotional and psychological dynamics. Since the woman had been the man, and the man had been the woman, each of them will have memories to this effect at a subconscious level. As a result, both of them can psychologically and emotionally operate within those old gender roles. The man will be essentially operating through the female emotional psychology, and the woman through the male emotional psychology. When this is the observed situation, the evolutionary reason is to evolve the relationship forward, since they had reached an evolutionary limit to further growth in the old roles. In addition, it will correlate to the evolutionary need in each of them as individuals, and through the relationship dynamics, to begin the process of consciously integrating the inner female and male into a state of equal balance and actualization. Negatively, this switching can produce all kinds of emotional and psychological power plays involving who is going to control who, and/or who is going to be the "boss" within the relationship. It can also create a profound confusion with respect to the roles of giving and receiving.

In the Consensus state, this placement will corelate to a couple that has desired to secure the relationship through the creation of home and family in the most recent of prior lifetimes. The intention to do so will occur on contact with one another as a reaction to their subconscious memories of separation that preceded the most recent lifetimes together. All too often, such a couple experiences a high degree of interference from one or both sets of parents, who issue one judgment after another toward the relationship, and toward each individual person. Such parents are also highly insecure, and the compensation for this insecurity is to try and control the two people and their relationship through the use of negative and critical judgments. The unconscious motivation in this has been to try and drive a wedge between the two so as to maintain a primary orientation to the parents. By allowing this wedge to occur, each partner would have become progressively isolated from the other on an emotional and psychological basis. Over time, this isolation would become the causal factor generating separation.

Thus, the most recent reaction to this has been to secure the relationship through the creation of home and family, so that the symbolic nature of home and family equaled permanency, consistency, and continuity. Yet each will have subconscious memories of not being understood by the other because of projections that each made on the other that were extensions of the judgments of the parents. These memories can create an unconscious fear of the same thing happening again, which, in turn, can lead to the effect of emotionally hiding from one another even though they feel intensely drawn and attracted. When this occurs, they will then relate emotionally to each through their own children, instead of directly interfacing with one another. The displaced anger from other lifetimes can then be triggered relative to how the children should or should not be raised, or other parental disagreements which are used as a vehicle to work out the unresolved emotions with one another. Some in this condition will resist having children together because of the nature of their own childhoods.

For a couple in the Consensus state, the roles within the relationship will be more or less fixed because of the nature of current cultural conditioning. The man will be the man, and the woman will be the the woman, as defined by the prevailing social norms. This creates additional isolation, because they are not allowed to go beyond the boundaries of the roles. These sexually stereotyped roles can also be used to hide behind. It is essential that this type of couple learn how to create situations wherein they can relate to each other openly on a one- to-one basis, and in so doing relate a pure expression of the emotional dynamics that each needs to openly discuss with one another. They must learn how to confess to one another their deepest fears, feelings, needs, desires, and the causes of their anger toward one another without fearing more negative judgment. This results in emotional and psychological self-knowledge of each other, and thus creates the awareness of the dynamics within their relationship as a result. In the last analysis, this is the actual intention for the relationship, and the reason they came together in the first place.

Sexually, this placement will correlate to a couple who has been, and will be, quite conventional in their sexual relationship, allowing the nature of their sexual relations to be defined by the society that they are in. This can also be a situation wherein they stop being sexual with one another at a certain point within the relationship usually when the last child has been born. This is a reaction to emotional isolation, if each feels that their emotional and psychological needs are not being fulfilled through the other. In the worst of cases, this can correlate to one or the other (usually the man) using sex as a form of acting out rage and anger. Thus, sexual power is used to humiliate, subjugate, or actually hurt the partner.

In the Individuated state, this placement will correlate to a couple who has had an intense desire to merge on an emotional and psychological level, as a reaction to the subconscious memories of separation in other lifetimes. The desire to merge in this way is a reaction to the fears of separation, and will lead into an almost total need to "hang on" to one another at all times. The intensity of proximity that this produces induces incredibly intense emotional dynamics to occur between them in which each can feel as if they are being swallowed up by one another. Confrontations occur at key and regular intervals as a result, and in time produce an intense degree of personal knowledge. Both will have a keen interest in psychological knowledge of a humanistic (as opposed to clinical or behavioral) nature. As a result, there is a deep temptation to psychoanalyze each other to tears. All too often, the nature of this analysis reflects the projections of their own unresolved emotional dynamics as individuals. They will project judgments about each other's intentions, motivations, desires, and agendas. Back and forth the projections fly until each individual begins to own and take responsibility for their own reality. Because of being in the individuated state, the nature of which is to rebel against external authority in order to individualize from the consensus, the causes of separation in other typically based on the rebellion that occurred when one attempted to overly control or manipulate the individual development and needs of the other. This creates the subconscious memory or feeling in which each will feel that they have been abandoned by the other. The problem was never one at a Soul level, because the Souls loved each other dearly, and want to be together. The problem was the inability to accept individual differences at a personality level, since those differences were perceived as threatening to the relationship. This was the basis of the need to control or manipulate, judge, or put down the individual needs of each. These memories only fuel and intensify the lifetimes is the mutual projections, as well as fueling the need to merge as a safeguard against another separation.

In this evolutionary condition, each will have to be born into families in which neither one was understood or nurtured by their parents. As a result, each will have feelings of being rejected or disdained by their parents in some way. These displaced emotions of childhood become "acted out" via yet more projections onto the partner. In the individuated state, there will still be a strong need to "nest"---to create a home and family. Yet, because of the individuated state, they will desire to raise their children in exactly the opposite way that they themselves were raised. They will be totally emotionally present and available to their children, and encourage the actualization of the individuality that is inherent to each. In this way, they will subconsciously heal their own childhoods by raising their children in the ways that they wanted to be raised. This is a good thing, and will actually have a maturing effect in their own emotional and Í be psychological interactions over time. The couple will rebel against traditional roles of gender assignment, and will more or less attempt to raise their children equally through role interchangeability. They will be fiercely protective of not only their children, but of the relationship itself. Not too many others will actually know what is taking place within the inner sanctum of their relationship.

Sexually, this placement can correlate to a couple who uses sex as a form of emotional control, and as a way of expressing unresolved anger. On the other hand, there is such a strong desire to merge emotionally and psychologically that the sexual union that does occur will be very intense the sexual energy will be intensified through and because of the emotional energy. Many will have the subconscious desire to be in the other person, so to speak, as is they can never be close e enough. This desire reflects the need in each to "return to the womb"---the source of maximum security and safety. There will be a rebellion against the sexual conventions of the current culture, and a desire and need to experiment with different ways of being sexual. For many, there will be a deep fascination and/or attraction to anal sex and oral sex. There is also a deep need to be held and touched, and to sleep together in ways that the bodies are always entwined in some way. Massage, including sexual massage, are strong needs in each because both will have needs for sexual healing in some way. Coming together sexually serves as a vehicle for emotional and Soul renewal. Some will use sexuality as a way of healing the emotional rifts and difficulties that occur.

In the spiritual state, this placement will typically correlate to a couple that has unresolved emotional dynamics as individuals, and together. For any of us to move towards spiritual life and reality, we must undergo a progressive surfacing of all the impurities within us. Thus, in this condition such a couple will necessarily have a surfacing of all the unresolved emotions. This can create real turmoil for each of them, and for their relationship. This turmoil is caused by cycles in which their life together, and as individuals, seems very calm, peaceful, harmonious, and spiritualized. Then comes the cycle in which he unresolved emotions surface in varying degrees of intensity. These emotions are caused by deep insecurities in each of them, and between them. In evolutionary terms, they are in the process of progressively disengaging from all external dependencies, including the mutual dependency on one another. This can create fear in each at various points because of the emotional fear that “they don’t need me anymore.” The cyclic surfacing and projection of these emotional fears and insecurities will be quite child-like in essence. The challenge and key for such a couple is to interpret correctly why this is occurring, and to really that this is a natural consequence in spiritual development. Maintaining this perspective will allow them to not take that which is projected too personally. Responding in this way will allow for a progressive working through and resolution of these unresolved emotions. The worst that could happen is for one of the other or both to feel that these emotional projections are undermining their spiritual growth. This will lead to polarization, and possible separation. This can occur when one or the other fails to understand that these emotions must surface as a consequence of spiritual development. In essence, these emotions surface because there is a transference between the external home and the inner home of God.

The highest level of this stage of evolution will reflect a couple that has desired to create security together through a common commitment to the “inner home”—a commitment to God. As a result, the very structure through which they actualize and establish their relationship will be a total restructure of reality that is defined by their mutual commitment to God and spiritual living. They have learned as a reaction to memories of separation that the only real security, that which cannot be taken away, is that which is found within. As such, they have learned to trust God as the ultimate parents, a parent who is ever loving and providing for what they need. Trusting this, the intensity based in the fear of separation has now almost totally dissolved. Inwardly, their desire to be together is beyond question. Yet if this does about, they know that it is only a physical separation, not a separation of Soul or spirit.

In evolutionary terms, this placement will correlate to a couple that has been together a long time, and has experience a tremendous amount of life experience together—they have been through a lot. As a result, they will have a deep degree of emotional wisdom together, one another, and because of this they will exhibit an unconditional acceptance and love of one another. They will be simultaneously male and female tougher, the relationship evolving into a natural state of androgyny. Even when residual emotions linked with insecurity or fear do surface (which they can even in this state), they will have a way of gently letting such emotions move through one another while at the same time sustaining the spiritual and emotional awareness and understanding which allows for resolution of whatever specific emotion is.

Spiritually, they will both be attracted to emotional forms of spirituality that are experiential and provable. In this condition, there will still be a need to isolate the relationship from the undue impact of the external environment. This, again, is a reaction to the separations that have occurred in other lifetimes. Thus, even though they manifest the understanding that God is in control of their lives, and that they can not really be separated anyway, the desire to be together in flesh and blood leads to this desire to isolate the relationship as much as possible anyway. Some will have families, and some will not. For those that do, they will raise their children in a spiritual atmosphere, yet allow for the independent development of each child according to the individual needs and realities of each. The love will be constant and unconditional, no matter what occurs in their children’s life.

Sexually, some such couples will desire to make love to each other’s Souls and, through extension, to God. Others will have no need to have sex at all, or quite irregularly. The primary orientation will be to touching and holding, and allowing the sexual act to be very gentle, yet deep. Eye contact will be constant and sustained.

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posted November 26, 2020 11:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hikaru29:
I wonder if anyone has experienced this?

I have been researching on this house placement and found a voice recording which explains it in great detail - https://evolutionaryastrology.net/comp_pluto_4h/2015-06- 17-14-08-segment-2-webinar-class-composite-pluto-in-4th-house/

Although I don't believe in past life stuff but it says due to past life separations by external forces, they act out their insecurities in this partnership and often feel threatened by a fear of being abandoned by their partner. They thus become controlling, manipulative etc and tend to close off their relationship from others who threaten to break them up. They will experience periods of intense togetherness (joined at the hips) and struggles for personal growth. One or both of them can also become confronting and demanding.

Their relationship can also be threatened by their careers or family interference. Children will become vehicles to help them heal. There could be stepchildren.

They desire to build a secure relationship (home...children...), have an intense need to be together and are able to love and accept each other unconditionally.

The urge to merge is intense and sexual merging can be emotionally intense and will serve as a vehicle to renew the souls. Even when they sleep, they need to embrace to feel emotionally secure. On the negative, one partner may use sex to control the other.

The resolution is to build inner emotional securities and understand where their fears come from. They each need to mature and learn how to respond, not react, to one another. They also need to learn (as a couple) not to allow others to interfere with their relationship.

---

Hi, I don't think I have pluto in 4th composite with anyone but I've had pluto in my 4th for my solar return and my experience with that is a complete transformation of my idea of the home. I had a strict idea of what I wanted my family life to be, how many kids I wanted, who I wanted to marry etc. but all of that has changed drastically to the point of idk what I want anymore. I have Jupiter in there too so there's an expansion on that but I would assume it may play out similarly in a composite chart.

The relationship may transform your ideas of a family, your childhood etc. It seems simple or self-explanatory put like this but depending on your natal chart, that may really affect you. It really did for me.

posted September 21, 2021 08:44 PM            

There was an instant trust in our beginning, over time it became a bit of jealousy and I develop a fear of losing him. He said the same. I feel I act out more on this energy. Our cPluto square cVenus/cMercury too. So you see it can get overwhelming. I feel whenever he isn't as obsess as I am, I feel strangely "unloved" because obsession does not equate to being love. Somehow I associate with it.

Our Pluto's in Scorpio, I wonder would this make the relationship a double dose, with 10th ruler (Venus on DSC) squaring. We don't have many people So far interfering with our rs. My mom by far prefer I date someone else. Nothing too crazy really. Phew

Our NN (Aries) is also in the 8th. Um wow... I didn't expect our relationship to be Pluto/Scorpio/8th oriented until I typed this all out.

posted September 23, 2021 04:20 AM            

However, what I said still stands… as in the physical intimacy, emotional intensity, control issues and fear of losing one another.