posted June 08, 2009 05:27 AM            

You have Sun at 1 Aries, Mercury at 17 Aries and Venus at 22 Aries.

posted June 08, 2009 05:30 AM            

Personally I am fond of 3 degree orbs for synastry and about 6 degrees in natal charts or relationship charts.
Even though I admit, since I started looking at asteroids I usually only consider aspects to 3 to 4 degree in a natal / relationship chart, too.

The reason for this is two fold:

1. The Fullmoon / Newmoon shows us a 3 degree orb in the sky (it is only considered full or new while being in 3 degree orb)

2. I want to focus on the most significant things, and I want to avoid grasping for straws, which could possibly happen using too wide orbs. At least that is my opinion.

posted June 08, 2009 05:43 AM            

welllll i ask because if 9 degrees are allowed, there are 4 squares! if not, there are zero aspects to the planet. haha, of course i think zero aspects is preferable. just find it interesting that on this particular day there is a a 9 deg orb (on either side) OR nothing, depending.

posted June 08, 2009 12:42 PM            

I have learned that what's REALLY important is to look at each natal chart and--this is key--the reality of the two people's relationship outside of astrology as you read the synastry.

Wide orbs can be useful for:
-looking at the subtle dynamics between couples in long-term relationships--people who actually live together and have a high level of mutual involvement
-looking at one-sided attractions, in conjunction with the birth chart, in order to better understand the nature of someone's fixation on another person...be aware that these dynamics play out differently for each person...let's say for example that we are looking at a couple who have known each other for five months and spent the night together three times, and the A feels that there is an intense connection between them that might lead to a close, intimate relationship, while B has two other lovers and feels very obsessed with one of them. Because the synastry isn't activated in the same was for B as for A and doesn't hold the same importance in his/her life or natal chart, the way that aspects will play out will be different for each person.

Remember that we each have "soul mate" synastry with millions of people we will never meet, and thousands of people we will meet but never feel an attraction to.

One reason I used to use such tight orbs was that a lot of people use synastry as a way to find "evidence" that they have a "Soul Mate" connection with someone, that there's some great destiny or meaning between them and some dude who lives four states away. But the truth is that you can have AMAZING "soul mate" connections at a 0 degree orb and that isn't enough to create mutual love. Astrology is not the whole story.

So--choosing which orbs to look at is an art, not a science. But if you're reading for yourself (and Cosmica23 made a brilliant point about this last night in another thread), carefully ask yourself as you look at each aspect how, if at all, you are feeling and experiencing each aspect in real life. If you are feeling it, consider how best to work with and understand it.

If reading for others or for strangers, look at each natal chart and natal transits to see how each native might feel and expreience the synastry. You cannot assume from charts that a relationship has equal importance to both parties.

If you've only just met someone, you've NEVER met, or you've never spent a lot of time together in person or been physically intimate for more than a month at a time, I recommend using very narrow orbs in the synastry and paying particular attention to how/why this relationship is hitting your natal chart--the person's planets in your houses, etc. Remember that your role in that person's life might be different and he/she might have other, more intimate involvements, so he/she might not feel or experience those dynamics.

Imagine, for example, a 24-year-old woman--the 68-year-old, married manager of the local grocery store who she has never met, but sees when she buys potatos, has a giant stellium, including his conjunct Mars-Venus, falling in her natal 7th house, and the two of them have a 0 degree double-whammy Eros-Psyche conjunction. Her gorgeous live-in boyfriend's Eros is sextile her Psyche at a 4 degree orb, none of his planets fall in her seventh, and his Mars-Venus fall in her 9th. In her life, those connections with her boyfriend will be a million times more important than the seemingly bigger connection with Grocery Store Guy. You might want to examine their synastry accordingly.

New rules of thumb:

-if you're looking at the synastry of two people who have never lived together in an intimate relationship, start by looking at aspects at a narrow orb, and pay particular attention to the natal chart of the person who is asking to have the synastry looked at. You will be able to see how the relationship/connection is affecting that person. The other person might not care as much or be as affected and the synastry might not be activated--it's not only about astrology.

posted June 08, 2009 01:15 PM            

you have given this a lot of thought.
Yet I disagree with you.

If we differentiate between synastry between a longlasting couple and for example a short affair, and give the same aspects a different value, then this deems astrology practically invalid or "unusable".

Imo astrology should reflect what is going on between two people regardless if I know, if they have been married for 30 years or just met each other.

Anyway, I agree there is this difficulty to see that we apparently have several links with several people, who are not our spouses.

Personally I think you CAN see the reasons for why we hook up with someone and why we don`t hook up with someone else. But it is a combination of natal chart interpretation and comparision, synastry and progressions / transits.

And I think we haven`t found the "formula" so far.
I know I am in the clear minority here, but I definitely think there is such a "formula", which would at least give a high probability (there is still free will, though).

But then I`m still looking for that myself, and everyone has their own approach.

posted June 08, 2009 01:27 PM            

except I use 5 degree for synastry,and that's just with the regular stuff. The conjunction,opposition,square,trine gets 5. The sextile gets 3. The quincunx,semisextile,semisquare,and sesquiquadrate gets 1 1/2. The orbs that Robert Hand recommends in HOROSCOPE SYMBOLS. I use no more than 1 to 2 degree orb for outerplanets though. I feel comfortable with 2 degree orb for Uranus and 1 degree for Neptune. Those are in regards to conjunctions,oppositions,squares,and trines. The other aspects get considerably smaller orbs.

I am controversial as an Astrologer because I don't view Pluto as a planet. I just view as a kuiper belt dwarf planet like the astronomers do. Eris, Makemake and Haumea are also kuiper belt dwarf planets. I consider giving them an orb of 30 minutes of arc. Eris might be given an orb of 20 minutes of arc.

If I consider Pluto in synastry,I might as well as consider Pluto's fellow kuiper belt objects too. the slower they are, the more generational they are,and so the narrower the orbs have to be.

for instance Sedna with its orbit of over 10,000 years would have an orb of 5 minutes of arc.

aspects to the other kuiper belt objects could account for feeling wide orbs involving Pluto....especially plutinos, Orcus and Ixion.

in a natal,composite,davison, I only use 3 degree orb for the large kuiper belt objects...especially the dwarf planets. I would use only 1 degree orb for the small kuiper belt objects. Those are referring to conjunctions,oppositions,squares,and trines. The other aspects get considerably smaller orbs.

That's just how I am as a 21st Century astrologer.

posted June 08, 2009 01:42 PM            

If you look at synastry between a heterosexual, non-pedophile 45-year-old woman and her best friend's 9-year-old daughter and they have a lot of aspects that in a chart between two straight 45-year-olds of the opposite sex would mean bigtime erotic attraction and sexual sparks, supported by both natals, you STILL would not look at that synastry and say, "Boy, these people really want to get it on." We read synastry differently for different kinds of relationships, period.

I think it's just factual, and statistically/practically unavoidable, that we only meet a small fraction of the other humans in the world, and we only connect with a small fraction of those.

I also don't think something like genetics can be examined in a void. Our choices strongly affect how our genetic tendencies play out in our lives. I wrote in another thread that a chart is a map, not the territory. You can make the same type of map for flat terrain as hilly terrain, but your crossing in real life will feel very different. Part of an astrologer's job is to know when a topographical map instead of a flat one is needed. Another part of an astrologer's job is to understand that if you are 4 years old, legless, or dying of late stage lymphoma, your mountain crossing on foot will play out differently than if you're a healthy 30-year-old marathon runner. And the map won't show that. A good astrologer can WORK WITH THE MAP and work with your real-life condition and help you use it to make the crossing.

Astrology maps tendencies and energies that real-life human beings work with, in our individual ways. It doesn't accurately, consistently show when or how we'll die or when or how or with whom we'll fall in love--it just shows us a clearer picture of the possibilities.

We don't read a 0 degree Eros-Psyche conjunction in the 1st and 7th houses the same way for an adult couple as for two heterosexual women, one an adult and one a child--so why on earth would we read it the same way for a couple that's mutually in love as for a woman who's obsessed with a guy she's slept with once, who is madly in love with and committed to a different woman?

posted June 08, 2009 01:57 PM            

Raymond, do you ever notice, looking at your personal synastry with partners, that sometimes you "feel" aspect at a wide orb? I've been noticing this all the time--I'll look using a 4 degree orb and then expand to a 9 degree orb and suddenly the synastry will make so much more sense.

posted June 08, 2009 02:02 PM            

Yet, I think, astrology should be consistent, at least for people with comparable "background" (for example, grown up, heterosexual etc.).

posted June 08, 2009 02:02 PM            

if so, I'd consider midpoint pictures

after all, I am into Cosmobiology.

I never felt comfortable using wide orbs...especially for outer planets and Pluto.

also...right ascension might actually account for wide orbed aspects...especially with Pluto and other kuiper belt objects, there is a significant difference.

there is also the declinations too.

posted June 08, 2009 04:58 PM            

I am not by any means trying to say that I have anywhere near the astrological knowledge of anyone in this thread, (as I can tell you all are very learned astrologers). However, I would just like to use my relationship as basis for evidence on this matter.

I have been living with my boyfriend for a year now and to be quite honest, our synastry worried me quite a bit from time to time. I, as Lucia pointed out, often find myself checking our chart in order to find "evidence" that he and I are soulmates. We have some good aspects, but no real out-of-this-world aspects between our charts (at least not at a small orb). No planets in either of our 7th or 1st houses. Nevertheless, the connection is very strong. Stronger than what the charts suggest. However, I've looked at synastry charts with guys that I've known that were much much much stronger apect-wise, and felt, well... close to nothing for them.

I think that everyone on this thread made some very valid points, but in my personal experiences, you do have to make your own judgements about the relationship, and how it feels outside of the astrological calculations. Although astrology has a pretty good explanation of how things will work out in most cases, there are life circumstances that can alter the results.

posted June 08, 2009 07:31 PM            

quote:

---

Yet, I think, astrology should be consistent, at least for people with comparable "background" (for example, grown up, heterosexual etc.).

---

Well, even our idea of a comparable "background" varies wildly from culture to culture. In some places, it is legal for children to be married to adults. Because of stigmas about homosexuality and bisexuality, some people "come out" late in life or have only one same-sex lover in a full lifetime. Stigmas about people having sex with relatives vary from culture to culture. I could go on and on. Race, religion, gender, sexuality, local, taboos about age and kinship, all affect how synastry might play out.

Even looking only at, say, middle Americans who identify as heterosexual and are over age 18, there are many non-astrological issues that shape how a synastry may be activated. For example, let's say that a woman closely fits the society's beauty ideals (to the point that she is regularly approached by modelling agents), comes from a very, very rich family, and has two world-famous movie star parents.

Now, a natal can show wealth and personal magnetism, but all RELATIVELY to the person's culture and class background. I don't think astrology shows the particulars of the culture a person is born into. It might show tendencies--to be rich, beautiful, or born into fame--but it's all relative. Let's say 20,000 people buy my book and I get 10 fan letters a month--that's famous compared to some people--but it's totally NOT famous compared to Madonna. Also, we each express and work with our natal tendencies in our own unique ways. I love the example of Ghandhi's chart as evidence of this. That guy could have used his chart just to be a heartbreaker and get laid all the time.

Now, let's say she goes to the 7-11 and buys a Coke, and the man working there is her age, straight, of a different race and religion than she is, from a very, very poor family background over many generations, speaks very differently than she does, has little education. He is not conventionally good-looking. He lost a leg in an accident as a child (again--indicated by the natal, but the natal would never prove conclusively, "oh, when this person is 6, he'll get hit by a car.") Let's say they have AMAZING Soulmate synastry.

The fact is that, although they might be more drawn to each other than the average 7-11 clerk and customer, their relationship will probably play out very very differently than if she met some guy she had equally intense synastry with at a party, a two-legged, rich guy of the same social class and milieu. All for non-astrological reasons.

The vast majority of our synastry is with strangers or near strangers--it really does have to be ACTIVATED to play out in any important way. To me that just seems like common sense. But I would be very curious to hear some solid examples substantiating the other arguments!

posted June 08, 2009 07:40 PM            

quote:

---

Personally I think you CAN see the reasons for why we hook up with someone and why we don`t hook up with someone else. But it is a combination of natal chart interpretation and comparision, synastry and progressions / transits.

---

I can find an explanation of ANYTHING looking at natal, synastry, draconics, and progressions/transits. That's all about clever use of metaphor.

Empirical tests of astrology that aren't axiomatic have come up very lacking, except one study that found a disproportunate number of Aries-influenced daredevils, LOL. I still find it useful--especially very basic, crude, sun-sign astrology, actually! In everyday life, I can usually guess a person's Sun Sign on first meeting (never from pictures, and I can never guess their ASC), and I can always guess the element of their Sun. It's helpful in figuring out how to deal with people.

posted October 01, 2015 02:03 AM            

Yes.

quote:

---

Originally posted by woah city:
i'm most interested in the orbs considered too wide in a relationship chart (ie the time you first get together). is nine degrees way too wide or what? what orb do you typically use?

---

I limit synastry orb to 5*, excepting the luminaries, which can stretch to 6-7, depending on the aspect (conj/opp).

posted October 01, 2015 02:51 AM            

I use a 1-3-5 rule.

1° or less: This is a core aspect and colors the chart. Enen areas unrelated to the two planets involved are viewed through the filter of this aspect.

3° or less: This is a greater aspect. Its influence is felt in the areas indicated at all times.

5° or less: This is a lesser aspect. It's influence will depend on other factors. When a third planet, be it natal, transit, progressed, or synastry, aspects both planets with a 3° or less orb, the influence will increase such as to be felt as a greater aspect.

My $0.02