posted July 31, 2019 12:01 PM            

"Out of control" I mean that he might get crazy for you, and that with Comp. Pluto square Jupiter, the rs might have those control issues... so mainly, this plutonian influence in this rs might take you to a step back in your individual achievements, in the worst case scenario...

And I meant that even though he's a Capricorn Sun/Mercury/Neptune in 10th house, he might turn out unexpectedly pretty emotional... mainly, his Pluto opposite Moon is "intense" (yes, that's the word), and since it's Scorpio vs Taurus in addition to your DW Pluto square Venus and his Mars square your Venus, it all turns out quite possessive, distrustful and controlling (but also, intense, charming, deeply intimate, and you love this).

Well, all those Composite planets (stellium, SN and Saturn) in Scorpio, look pretty stable, but with the Saturn/Mercury conjunction (supposedly in 6th house, if the TOB was correct, but we dont know) it would require a discipline in maintaining stability and harmony, mainly through a constant questioning and rational testing of the relationship, and through devotion and self-control. This might certainly be helpful as equippment in keeping the negative plutonian impact under control, and you as a Virgo should be good at this... The Comp. Pluto square Jupiter in 8th house makes it an hard task though...

Chiron in (12th house?) Gemini square Moon/opposite Uranus looks like a karmic challenge, cause to make this work out you have to be well equipped against your worst subconscious psychological wounds that might be triggered in this control issue dynamic and turn out in emotional detachment. So it all requires maturity and rational self-control against the potential darkest emotions, and this is why I have talked of mind against heart. This all can be turned into a mainly sexual relationship cause this is the sphere where you might better relate to each other and find satistaction in the rs... not because the sexual sphere wastes the emotions, but because in this picture, with that Chiron square Moon and Saturn conjunct Mars, opposite NN, the power struggle might drain and frustrate the emotional side and let the sexual aspect become your main glue, actually frustrating the "true love" nature of the Comp. stellium. This all might work out through that constant Mind vs Heart dynamics, in my opinion, especially in case the 6th house placement of the Composite stellium was correct.

Your Saturn square to your NN 11th house and opposite to his Jupiter is why you might question his social background and fear the differences between you two... but you also have Mercury square Sun/Mercury. this is reflected by the Composite Jupiter square Sun/Pluto, but I would say this is mainly an issue of your own concern given by your natal Jupiter square Venus (in LEO, trine your ASC) that is in need to maintain that "status quo" you are talking about...

The karmic pattern might be given by Composite Mars opposite to NN and Chiron midpoint (supposedly 12th house, but we dont know again) with Chiron square to Moon. This looks like a past life debt or that a complete emotional harmony might be a challenge, serving you in resolving past subconscious individual fears.

posted July 31, 2019 05:37 PM            

The worst thing for me is that i dont think my chart would do it for you. Platonic friendship at best maybe

You have your ascendant at my eros/juno conjunction in Leo. Your sun on my Jupiter <3 (within 1 degree)
Your Saturn trine my Venus and your Pluto trine my moon by 1 degree.

My best shot might be my sun in trine with your Mars and my Uranus conjunct your mars

Yeah and your Venus sits on my NN.

And i already mentioned the cap moon. Its opposite my sun by 1 degree.

posted August 01, 2019 12:43 AM            

Well my sister is a Virgo with 1st house sun, 12th house Virgo Venus, mars in scorpio and moon in cancer (heh ) and well.
If you have to put it that way i believe you
Because i imagine dodging a intimate relationship with her is like dodging a bullet

My Gemini Venus, you will see it, loves to idealize women/people/ideas. And it just burst out in flames whem i read your thoughts about mr cap. I will secretly continue to have you on a piedestal though, that cap moon just might make a significant difference from my sister

I do have a unexplored relationship potential with a Virgo born 1-2 days before you. Shes a cap rising though. It remains to be seen if she is still around when i get my #### together.

I need to run off to work now and dont have time posting my natal, but i posted it in this thread the other day: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/025541.html

posted August 01, 2019 03:29 PM            

this is one of those potentially dangerous emotional charts.
eros/psyche midpoint is conjunct to venus and the sun/mars midpoint is conjunct to venus and mars is conjunct the south node with venus loosely conjunct the node.
thuis gives a very strong physical/emotional/sexual attraction. with the nodal energy added there are is a"magic" between you.you and he seem to be in your own reality when together. this can give a feeling of shimmering lights around each other.
cupid opposed to juno can bring expectations of affection leading to commitment. this can be reinforced by the moon/Saturn midpoint opposed to eris, adding more sexual chemistry .
these aspects being magical can allow you to leave your senses.

here Saturn conjunct to mercury and square to nessus bodes a dark and cold distance underneath the magic. this is a isolating aspect in a composite and bodes a block for real sharing of thoughts and emotions.

though the moon/Saturn midpoint/eris can bring further attraction, the moon/Uranus midpoint is conjunct to Jupiter which is a very unstable aspect. it bodes break ups .

though Jupiter is conjunct to juno giving feelings of potential union, pluto is square to juno and Jupiter which indicates that there are selfish emotional issues which usually work against a relationship.
pluto/Jupiter usually shows he is committed to his professional advancement and has no real desire or need for emotional completion as his ambitions rule his future vision.
this is a harsh aspect with little compassion and combined with the Saturn/nessus square the composite has strong separative dynamics.

the "danger" arises because the south node/vertex midpoint is conjunct to satrun. this can give a sense of destiny. a sense that even with great personal differences , the relationship was met to be.this commitment to destiny and advanced by the electric chemistry can lead to expectations that do not manifest.
the sense of destiny and the heat of affection are easily frustrated by the selfishness off Saturn/nessus and pluto/Jupiter.

there is no question there is a karmic element to the composite but it is difficult to integrate "karma" into the reality of a committed relationship.

in addition the sun/Jupiter midpoint is conjunct to Uranus and opposed to chiron. though this can add an excitement and psychic/mental energy,this in the final analysis adds to the instability.
with chiron there is a need to understand each others every thought and feeling and as such when the relationship is going smoothly,this gives amazing intimacy, but if difficulties arise ,chiron can destroy a relationship quickly as the intimate knowledge of each others strengths... and weakness, leads to criticism that cuts painfully to the quick.
if such a relationship is in straits, then Chiron resorts to needless and cruel criticism often heaping blame on the partner.

this is a difficult chart for a committed relationship

posted August 02, 2019 03:33 PM            

first I have to say I hope I can repy to your questions with the clarity you have used to ask them.

"I have a few questions: when you say "committed relationship" do you imply something specific, such as same place of living, children, common social circle... or just monogamous?
(asking because I am not made for picket fences and 2.4 children anyways "

I use committed relationship ,initially, to imply a monogamous relationship. though there can be variations on this theme, such as you enumerated.

"Then, is there any way it could be healthy? Not this specific relationship, but can a similar magic/attraction occur without all those terrible asides?"

you would need to look at the individual natals and see if both partners had the same "malefic" aspect, then it is possible a successful relationship could evolve, as both could have already lived through and worked out the potential deleterious affect of the given aspect

"Do I trigger that?
I have a history of abuse that I've healed (best I could, some things just don't heal) by taking care of others and developing compassion, keeping selfishness in check and making compromises are very therapeutic for me; he is a kind person that much I know, is there something about me that turns people into selfish hurters? It both scares and hurts to admit I don't know much else."

I would have to look at your natal to give a opinion on this question. but knowing you have already dealt with the abusive dynamic,i have two separate views.
one is that you would be able to sense the abusive dynamic in a relationship as you have already experiences these dynamics.

the second view is that, you could,subconsiocusly ,be attracted to the abusive dynamic if you haven't really come o grips with this dynamic, in which case you potentially might have an emotional blind spot that would make you unable to sense the abusive dynamic. you seem to have worked out your abusive experiences as much as is presently possible. but is still possible for some one to be drawn to the "residue" of such a experience

"I have Uranus in my 4th house, is any relationship going to be stable ever? (I swear you have a keyword when you say "instability", I detest Uranus for that, I don't want its electricity and originality at that price, instability is my kryptonite, the vague potential for unreliability makes me run through a door faster than a cheetah)."

thi is a tough one.yes urnaus in the 4th can manifest as you mention. but urnaus is also originality , which suggest that you should embrace and develop your innate abilities. find ways to integrate this aspect of your personality into your life experience. that is don't be afraid of the repetition of instability ,but focus more on what makes you an unique individual and find people and environments that you can be yourself in. much depends on the aspects to Uranus.it does seem from what you have posted that you are already following this path, as you realize the importance of" taking care of others and developing compassion, keeping selfishness in check and making compromises are very therapeutic for me." Uranus can show chaotic familial dynamics that might never be"normal" but accepting a responsibility to the grater social body is a way express your need of social coherence.

"It seems that we both become abusers here. I don't question it,"

?????what do you mean????????

"I just need to say it's hard to swallow having been abused to even imagine I would do something even having just the flavour of what has been done to me.
Does that mean, I can only protect myself and others by having passion free relationships? Does that mean he will never be able to have a relationship that isn't sacrificed for his career? He is very hard working and is happy accomplishing a lot, does it have to be a cold thing? Can't he love too even if it doesn't rule his schedule?"

this is a tough one....my assessment of pluto/Jupiter square is based on years of reflection and observation, so statistically this aspect is not favorable for relationship is because in a sense , his work is his relationship.
with juno conjunct to Jupiter ,here there is a possibility that you might have similar interest and actually be able to contribute to his vocational interest. one way this aspect does function positively in a composit is if both have the same long term views and aptitudes, so that you both advance in the same avenue. what happens with this aspect usually is that as one partner advances in their vocation, they grow apart from the other.

"When you say "expectations that do not manifest" you mean despite actual work? I'm asking because I once had a Neptunian relationship that fooled me and what allowed me to heal was that I never did anything to turn the dream into reality, I just sat on my tush drinking the kool aid lol"

this comment of mine is based on the south node/vertex midpoint is conjunct to Saturn.
the vertex is the fount of all levels of reality in our"solar universe". as such, though intense, not all the energy of the vertex can be used by our human plane of existence. the node focuses the energies of the vertex that are available to our plane of reference/existence. here the midpoint is conjunct to Saturn and mercury/Saturn is the single planet that most closely rules our reality, so this relationship has a combination of "supernatural energies/other worldly sensations/experiences".this is why,actions in our reality may not have the affect that normally one would expect to occur or manifest results from our actions.so it is not a function of inappropriate actions or misguided actions.here there is a intersection of "transcendent" energies. so normal desire inspired actions may not able to affect thee ethereal planes.
satrun makes this all very difficult, asreality ,here is enmeshed with 'paranormal" dynamics. here reality is much more complex than one could imagine.
psychologcallt this aspect can bring a sense of soulamte or the feeling that ht erealtionshop has ahigher detiny involved.this I because usually both partners have had such singular other worldly experiences in their lives, that I is imaginable that they could met someone else you can relate to such singular experiences in their lives. although the experiences that lead each partner to a sense of higher force being activated, can be totally different, the psychological affect in each partners life are very similar, which leads to a sense of common purpose in life.
I say this is a aspect of emotional danger because in spite of gut feeling of love and attraction, higher planes can be unconsciously affecting the individuals reaction and as such can be unpredictable.

"Could you please develop/explain this "it is difficult to integrate "karma" into the reality of a committed relationship." ? I'm not sure what exactly does "karmic" mean, it's not a word I use to describe my feelings, I struggle to imagine integrating it to any relationship actually so if you had examples, it would help, please "

I use the term "karma" here loosely. I use this in reference to the dynamics that I have described above.
I example would be say...a intimacy might develop between you based to a degree on the similar other worldly feelings above, yet the emotional intimacy might not seem to make you more committed of strengthen you love for each other s would be expected. this might reflect that there are "karmic" influences for good or bad that are involved in the development of the human expectations.

i have to stop here for now and will return tomorrow to answer ,to the best of my abilities, the remaining points you bring up and any other questions that might need clarification.

todd

"the intimate knowledge of each others strengths... and weakness, leads to criticism that cuts painfully to the quick. if such a relationship is in straits, then Chiron resorts to needless and cruel criticism often heaping blame on the partner."
This, right there is what I have witnessed between my parents my entire life and I'd rather die than re-enact any of it. There is no love to me when you attack the other and hit below the belt. Love to me is all about cherishing that knowledge as a treasure, NEVER forging it into a weapon and much less using it as such. I don't even try to get even with my enemies, again I'd rather die than do that to someone I love and wouldn't suffer it if it was done to me.

Finally, and it is very important as I ask all this to stress that I am not trying to alter or question your reading in any way, it's hard to take, but taken and I am thankful.
It's just that I was partially brought up by an astrologer who had convinced me that a certain family member was my other half and that our bond was pure and loving and healthy (Opposite suns etc...) and it turned out to be a heartbreaking abusive relationship that destroyed so much in me I still fight some of the vision of the world it carved in me some days, even after over 10 years of being entirely free from it. To heal from that relationship I had to convinced myself there ARE bad charts, that some relationships, some people, won't bring you no good (I consider good that is overpowered by bad, bad). So, I read your "difficult chart for a committed relationship" as a gentle way to put it, but I would like to confirm, you do believe there are bad charts and this is one of them? Or you do see this as a worst case scenario? I'm not necessarily asking in regards to this man, but in general, can you avoid the bad chart without avoiding the person? Is there hope or is there not?

Are there grey relationships possible for me? Something BETWEEN the karmas of vanilla and Amy Winehouse?

Thanks again for your input and for any further help you could provide Todd

posted August 03, 2019 06:16 PM            

todd

"the intimate knowledge of each others strengths... and weakness, leads to criticism that cuts painfully to the quick. if such a relationship is in straits, then Chiron resorts to needless and cruel criticism often heaping blame on the partner."

This, right there is what I have witnessed between my parents my entire life and I'd rather die than re-enact any of it. There is no love to me when you attack the other and hit below the belt. Love to me is all about cherishing that knowledge as a treasure, NEVER forging it into a weapon and much less using it as such. I don't even try to get even with my enemies, again I'd rather die than do that to someone I love and wouldn't suffer it if it was done to me.

Finally, and it is very important as I ask all this to stress that I am not trying to alter or question your reading in any way, it's hard to take, but taken and I am thankful.
It's just that I was partially brought up by an astrologer who had convinced me that a certain family member was my other half and that our bond was pure and loving and healthy (Opposite suns etc...) and it turned out to be a heartbreaking abusive relationship that destroyed so much in me I still fight some of the vision of the world it carved in me some days, even after over 10 years of being entirely free from it. To heal from that relationship I had to convinced myself there ARE bad charts, that some relationships, some people, won't bring you no good (I consider good that is overpowered by bad, bad). So, I read your "difficult chart for a committed relationship" as a gentle way to put it, but I would like to confirm, you do believe there are bad charts and this is one of them? Or you do see this as a worst case scenario? I'm not necessarily asking in regards to this man, but in general, can you avoid the bad chart without avoiding the person? Is there hope or is there not?

I do believe that some composites describe difficult and in some cases bad relationships that have virtually little chance of having any possible effects. I am some what of a traditionalist in that ,i believe some charts or aspects are "bad". I say this in contradistinction to the body of humanistic psychology/astrology that posits a good side to everything and the need to accentuate the positive and not to mention the negative.your composite has very destructive aspects . the mars/Saturn/south node conjunction square to nessus is extremely malefic in most cases. ihave left you some fudge roombut as I haven't looked over your natals yet, i have for now have to retain pessimistic view. again the complicating factor is the inclusion of the energies of the vertex and the node. these energies can introduce unconscious forces that may not be apparent under "normal' considerations, but Saturn and the south node particularly can be very destructive.
hard aspects such as square to mars/Saturn/pluto,orcus invariably over ride the favorable possibilities of trines and sextiles.

( I have run into a problem as my browser can not open the photobucket site of your chart, so I can not respond to questios about you natla charts right now.)

Are there grey relationships possible for me? Something BETWEEN the karmas of vanilla and Amy Winehouse?

Thanks again for your input and for any further help you could provide Todd

posted August 03, 2019 06:48 PM            

I'll look up malefic aspects and get back to you if you don't mind once I have educated myself a little first, would that still be relevant for him knowing his tob is unknown though?

without an exact time of birth,some aspects such as the angles and the moon would not be relevant but still, many of the other aspects significance can be determined.

>>> I would have to look at your natal to give a opinion on this question. but knowing you have already dealt with the abusive dynamic,i have two separate views.

It's very interesting you associate my healing path to Uranus.

as I said ,I haven't looked at you natal yet so I can't really comment of the incisive insights you have added.

>>>>"It seems that we both become abusers here"
?????what do you mean????????

I mean that when you wrote those things about Chiron going awry and using the other one's weakness to hurt and resent... I really saw my parents and I think their relationship is void of love and they both are abusers. Yet they have been together forever and can't/won't quit.

this is a good point because some relationships stay together inspire of incompatibility. many tines this is because some "victims" bond with their abusers and some abusers search out those who are easy to victimize. generally a person will be a abuser if they have hard aspects with Saturn/orcus,pluto,nessus,chiron and mars or combinations of these. a person is often a victim of abuse if they have the same hard aspects but also have trines between what would be considered"good"planets such as juoiter,sun and moon. these are by necessity generalizations but give a rough overview of what distinguishes the abuser from the abused. both have the same hard aspects but he abuser is devoid of the favorable aspects.

I could never be happy like that, I would wither if belittled by someone I bed with and I would self loathe to dangerous extent if I belittled someone who beds with me. This attitude to me sounded like what you meant the relationship could become, a relationship were everything is turned into power and ammunition and both protagonists are abusers only collecting those weapons against each other.

many times such relationships don't survive. it depends how distorted their personalities were by their early childhood experiences.

>>> this is a tough one....my assessment of pluto/Jupiter square is based on years of reflection and observation, so statistically this aspect is not favorable for relationship is because in a sense , his work is his relationship.

But this is in the composite right? yes

so it would mean all people with our specific age difference are doomed to be split over such a dramatic career approach by the younger party?

you must keep in mind that the ascendants and house position will play a part in how the individuals personality structures have developed and hence all individuals with the same age difference need not have the same outcome as to how they resolve the underlying dynamics.but in a general sense ,yes, the severity would be very similar if they individuals had the exact same TOB and day and year of birth

or is it something personal to him, because if his work is his relationship then it is, not just for me, right?
true, it is his preoccupation with the need for achievement and success/power that would determine his single mindedness to emphasis his personal destiny over a relationship.

that wouldn't make much sense otherwise, and it sounds quite extreme that an entire portion of a generation would abstain from relationships because of work.

that doesn't mean an entire generation would abstain from this type of relationship. your parents had difficult aspect but stayed together.

It's funny because I have always had this fear in me that if I accomplished anything in my work or socially then no one would ever love me because they'd love what I am and not who I am. I made peace with the idea that I will only be useful and not live my passion as a job, but I'm very happy he's got a different scenario and I actually love his job, I'm on the receiving end of it and it's something I respect and sort of understand (stressing that because I learnt at my expense that "Pisces" love didn't really work, I was naive when I was younger, I thought I could love someone who does a job I despise, like someone doing illegal stuff or hurting people through their job, as if doing that didn't affect the person doing it...)

>>>with juno conjunct to Jupiter ,here there is a possibility that you might have similar interest and actually be able to contribute to his vocational interest. one way this aspect does function positively in a composit is if both have the same long term views and aptitudes, so that you both advance in the same avenue. what happens with this aspect usually is that as one partner advances in their vocation, they grow apart from the other.

I could decidedly not do his job, but I wouldn't mind being supportive of it in terms of adjusting my own work activities to its requirements. I need to work, be useful, I don't need to have a career as I feel my ultimate job and what I have to achieve is myself, that work is constant and ongoing, it's my sanity. Craft is the most important thing to me as long as I develop one, work or even free time, I'm doing my job.
Now, I don't think he can advance more in terms of his job, I mean there's always more prestige but as far as the job goes he's already accomplished a lot so it would tend to say that he'd not get involved and go straight to the growing apart part...

Saturn/south ndoe and the pluto/Jupiter square are extremely power oriented. and power is the most addictive of all drugs....you can love an addict but you can't trust him...

I am afriad I have ran out of time again but I will return till we clear these points up
also could you post the natals?
todd

>>> it is not a function of inappropriate actions or misguided actions.here there is a intersection of "transcendent" energies. so normal desire inspired actions may not able to affect thee ethereal planes.

This, for example was very clear I have a much better grasp on the vertex/Saturn dynamic and the pointlessness of the notion of effort or even the impact of maturity in such a setting.

This remains blurry in parts, I thought karma was you do bad in one life, you pay in the next, so it's difficult to integrate that to you break up with your boyfriend because he doesn't take out the trash (caricaturing ). But I think what puzzles me the most in this notion is this dichotomy between emotions and love and sexuality. It's all one to me and it's VERY difficult to conceive that any relationship could involve sex and attraction that wouldn't strengthen the bonds and make me more committed because to me sex is a huge deal, I don't think I'd in fact go for it again UNLESS I feel committed. It thus frightens me to no end to think it could one sided and devoid of real love, or not nurture the emotions, with what you've explained I tried to imagine being close to someone physically and then being in the same room with the cold world between us. It would literally kill me, my organism struggles to compute the dichotomy, it's as if you told me that the ground beneath my feet, the rain on my skin... are an illusion, how could karma trick that? I guess I do have a lot of earth in my chart, sexuality to me is sensuality above all, it's constantly happening, not just in bed.

I'll look up to the rest of your explanations Todd, thanks again for all this knowledge and help [/B][/QUOTE]

posted August 04, 2019 04:24 PM            

my comments are your chart are initially related to the Saturn/mars/node/nessus aspects in the composite.

you natal reflects these dynamics and are the aspects of your abusive experiences.

you have pluto exactly square the vertex along with Saturn. in addition your nessus/north node midpoint is square to the Saturn/pluto midpoints. in addition the eros/psyche and eros/mercury midpoints are square to the nessus/node midpoint.

related to other personality characteristics, you have mars square to venus and the moon square to eris.

as you can see you have very similar dynamics to the "questionable"aspects in the composite.

the former series of aspects ,all point to the extreme abuse you have survived.

the psyche/eros midpoint square to nessus/node, is very germane to the currently composite ,as this shows a emotional "attraction" or rather an inclination to be associated or drawn to abusive relationships.
the mercury/pluto midpoint is conjunct to cupid and these are sqyuare the node. this would specifically show that you have emotional blocks so that you cannot distinguish the abusive nature of relationships.

in reference to the current composite, the eros/psyche midpoint indicates that part of your current attraction of the similarity of the composite mars/venus/node emotional energies with the natal eros/psyche energies.

your integration of sex and love, is clearly shown by psyche conjunct to mercury and the mars/venus midpoint conjunct mercury and psyche.in addition the eris/moon square adds a similar emotional connection for sexuality and emotional congruency.
so both mentally and emotionally, love and sexuality are inseparable.
I think the moon/eris midpoint on your descendant and square to mercury and chiron, is clearly the aspect that lead to your comment:
"I have a few questions: when you say "committed relationship" do you imply something specific, such as same place of living, children, common social circle... or just monogamous?
(asking because I am not made for picket fences and 2.4 children anyways "

the ersi/moon/urnaus aspects to symbolize aemotional turbulence that is set off by the amazing emtoinal attractions and affection that are part of your experience. Uranus gives the most electrifying emotional sexual connection but it is extremely unstable because the unearthly intensity can not be sustained for ever. and when this intensity wanes,very often the affair/relationship ends as the emotional requirements for a "normal" relationship do not have the passion first experienced.

again ,I have to continue tomorrow when I look at his chart in comparison to the composite and might add a bit to your natal situation
todd

posted August 06, 2019 01:31 PM            

his composite,right off, shows very dominating and controlling energies as well as a overall cold and distant personality.
the node is exactly square to Uranus and square to Saturn and eros and square to /Chiron and dejaniera opposition.the Pluto/psyche conjunction is semi square to Saturn
in addition pluto is conjunct to psyche and square to venus.nessus is opposed to juno and if he was born near to midnight the moon wopuld be square to venus et.al.
the nessus/dejaniera midpoint is opposed to venus.

the Jupiter/juno midpoint is conjunct to the node .the mars/venus midpoint is square to juno/Jupiter.

this is quite complex as venus/mars gives seemingly a positive emotional outlook for serious relationship but these aspects are superimposed over the harsh and controlling . Uranus/Saturn is quite hesitant to commit so even though he might be warm toward you, it is doubtful he will continue this relationship TOWRD YOU,after is needs are meant.

though he seems very sensitive with the sun/Neptune/mercury stellium sextile to pluto and psyche, nessus opposed to juno implies he would treat a steady partner abusively and with the nessus/dejaniera midpoint opposed to venus,this disrespect for his mate is also clear.
pluto/psyche square to venus is n aspect great sexual energy but it is not an aspect of emotional intimacy and indicates his carnal desires have nothing to do with this feeliongs off love.
pliuto/psyche square to venus is actually a indication pf a master/slave type of relationship. the position of nessus and dejaniera also shows a darker emotional nature,one that desires the option of inflicting emotional and even physical pain.

Neptune/sun can be very deceptive so I can't really see this as a healthy relationship. and wit the insights you have given to your personality and looking at your chart, I feel he is more like a cat playing with a mouse. he does project a warm sensitivity and even loving nature, even inclined to a serious relationship, but the darker aspects as very strong and I sense ,as I have said, he has much darker desires of control ,domination and even masochism.
the image that keeps coming to me,is that he has a iron hand under a velvet glove.

posted August 08, 2019 03:27 PM            

Thank you again very much for your time and all of this, I am sorry because I'm afraid I'm unpleasantly confused at that point...
You started with magical attraction, deep intimacy, strong emotional connexion BUT also coldness and separative aspects that lessen the emotions; and now I'm an abuse junkie who seeks pain and he's a cold manipulative power hungry tyrant who plays cat and mouse with daft little me. Boy that escalated quickly! lol

None makes much sense to me, you said a difficult composite could be "transcended" if the natals showed similar issues, it makes sense, you've worked on it for yourself, you can keep on working at it in a relationship, in fact it's somehow more desirable than to find yourself facing a whole new set of issues, there's only so much growth you can achieve within a lifetime. But then you say that my natal and the composite share so much in common and it makes me someone with a blind spot not able to recognise abusive relationships? (as for his natal, I'll get to that but the picture you paint of him as an individual makes the composite come off as a lovely summer day at the beach lol) Do you realise how bad saying that is?
I believe that you see what you see and it is true. I just think it's not as radical as you make it out to be and in this specific case your interpretation feels sorely mislead and reductive and thus potentially damaging. Of course my chart would show abuse I am unaware of. I was abused by family members since infancy. How could any animal recognise as abnormal something that is all they've ever known?
But to present it as a trait of my grown adult personality is extremely clumsy at best, dangerous and actually abusive at worst because it does not take into account the evolution of that premise, the fact awareness is a process nor my willingness and/or ability to work on myself as well as the intervention of outer help and other relationships that would have triggered other aspects of the chart enabling them to counter the difficult parts.
I don't know much else because I have protected myself to a fault after getting out of my abusive relationships and even if I've proven to be able to have positive, rewarding relationships, my biggest experience still is with abusive. But that's just math bias, that data is largely impacted by my bench time, it does not reflect my personal evolution.
I was a victim before I had the age to form a reflexion, to consent to anything, to physically or verbally fight back. That's not a blind spot, that's a contextual blindfold. You cannot discard the acquisition of all those things because of an instant stellar snap of the moment I was born.
You can only tell me I was to be given it at birth and what types of tools I would naturally have to go with. What other tools I have acquired over the years and how I worked at it are not to be undermined by my birth. Saying that insight I have provided confirms them just shows how deformed my words hit you to fit this radical reading of my BIRTH chart.
It's not as if I was in my late teens and were using terms I identified with on the internet, I have acquired the ability to refer to my past as "abuse", I am not using the term loosely nor figuratively.
Telling me I now have a blind spot and am perpetually attracted to abusive dynamics without even recognising them is basically blaming me for the innocence that was stolen from me as a child and is in fact extremely abusive. Shaming a victim is wrong regardless what science or craft you base it upon. I did not attract the abuse I have been through, nor was I attracted to it, just as women wearing skirts do not invite rape.

Where that discourse really has a strong abusive side is that, a) I essentially open up and give you entry points to me as an inferior, trusting your expertise over my appreciation of specific elements, it does not make me helpless, but it gives you power. b) You've identified as a traditionalist and so did the astrologer who brought me up. She believed charts over people. I remember her telling me about this Taurus client. A young woman who rejected her entire reading and the astrologer said "nope, I believe what I see". What a person feels and how they perceive themselves, their lives, if astrology is so powerful it must be in the chart, so how could the tale of the experience and the reading be so different? You have opposed traditionalist to humanistic and I think this is wrong. I have a profession in which this question lies at the core of my activities and I deal with very fragile people. My ethics are constantly questioned and worked on because of the responsibility I carry in that job. The guidelines we are given are to encourage and underline the positives ONLY in order to build confidence. I actually disagree with that entirely, I think acknowledging one's weaknesses and dark side are critical in building solid confidence and a truly functional identity. But the thing is those two approaches aren't to be opposed. Looking for positives, when done with integrity, is in no way exclusive of acknowledging issues and threats. Exactly like taking negatives into account isn't a way to rip situations of their prospects for positive outcomes. On the opposite, seeking the path for integration/redemption in any negative is the healthy, balanced approach and it is essential to a comprehensive view of any situation..Otherwise you're not analysing, you're merely judging and condemning.
So, if I put a and b together, this predicament puts me in a situation where if I don't accept your reading I am at fault for being in denial and not knowing better. I am a victim triggering abuse. But if I do accept your reading, I am the same.
See why it can't work that way? It can't be a 2 options choice when both options amount to the exact same thing. That's judgement, not analysis.
And if that's what being a traditionalist means to you and what astrology is about, then I have missed a critical point of how it works because I thought it was meant to show the path: texture, themes, hurdles *and* ways out, not violently push my psyche against a wall, pronounce an inextricable sentence and shoot.
Opposing traditionalist and humanising views does bear that very disturbing notion that should anyone reject your traditionalist view it would be because they don't accept the truth and can't take negative comments. Nobody likes to be told something unpleasant, but building a setting in which negatives can't be questioned or redeemed is just as biased as its opposite. Thus expressions such as "invariably out wiefgh tthe trines" work against trust and literal comprehending of your reading because they subtly make it impervious to, well, life.

It is also disturbing and a tendency I have learnt to fight within myself to think and establish that because negatives are negatives and more easily discarded by human nature they matter more and are stronger than positives. A minor positive event can generate as much good as a bigger negative event can deter. There is no hierarchy between good and bad. For bad to outweigh good it takes a will, it takes commitment to the bad aspects and that's a personal decision in all of us that we make repeatedly throughout life.

I would explain better where I think things are twisted in the snippets I gave about my experiences and personality but I've got to say it's difficult after having read something so definite about my own person, it feels no matter what I say, it will fuel this idea you have of me.

Same for that poor man lol You almost make me want to defend him cause you paint him SO bad! You say iron hand in a velvet glove and well, that's not sweet or nice but it's a temper many people have and I don't see why it's so wrong, the thing is that what you describe isn't an iron hand in a velvet glove it's a full blown sociopath, in heterosexual context misogynist and that's a bit much for a natal. It's been proven that personality disorders correspond to specific rewiring of the brain due to experience, a natal will show you a potential at best. The fact his show Ted Bundy aspirations doesn't mean he will follow the same path (plus even Ted Bundy did real good by helping people when he was working at that suicide hotline, so there IS always a good side, how much it weighs is a decision each and every one of us makes.).
As for your conviction that I am fooled or being played.... it's never pleasant to be seen as a naive goose, especially when you're not in a position to be one. Thing is I actually feel the cold, for 4 years I have watched him from a distance and kept my distance because of that cold vibe. I have also seen him evolve over the past 2 years and was surprised to enjoy being properly introduced and having time to talk with him. He has a lot of problems expressing his emotions and does come off as controlling but mostly of himself.
I wouldn't presume to know whether he's got a heart of gold underneath this awkwardness or if he's just one of those asperger evoking types who never really get into the human warmth main stream society equates with "good" but I know I have never seen him mistreat anyone, regardless of their status which I think is in large parts due to his education, something his chart can't reveal.
technically he isn't playing anything, I am in control of whether or not to see him again and I sincerely have not decided yet so I'm not under any spell, I have other bigger things to work on at the moment that will come before any relationship anyway so there's a pretty big fail safe too.

I had to convince myself there were bad charts at an age I was too young to understand that there was no reason to the violence I was put through. But reality is, if there are bad charts then I am one and the very fact I have grown from so much already proves that the same elements that cause the issue carry the solution, just like a vaccine.
But your interpretations don't even offer such possibility, you assert every harsh aspect as something the native has fully integrated and thrives in expressing and label all positive ones as mere appearances. You say he appears to have a sensitive side but really is cold and detached. If both energies interact, why couldn't it be the other way around? My questioning is quite general at that point, you've said abusers and their victims share harsh aspects, but abusers fail to have positive ones. But if you belittle the positive aspects as weaker than the hard ones or less prominent, aren't you reading a victim into an abuser?
My nessus was conjunct my grand-mother's sun and we also had nessus sextile venus in composite. I did nothing but take care of her, the love she gave me is what saved me from all the abuse I went through and before she died she asked me to leave because I was too kind to her and she could never let go of this painful life if I was around. What I's was so very aware of how much I could have hurt her, she was at my mercy being handicapped. Nessus makes the ugly visible, it doesn't make you succumb to it. We also had sun trine moon in the composite.
This is what makes it overall very confusing.
Also you said he was into domination and enjoying other's pain...Etc and then added also possibly a masochist, which is the opposite, and about the career desire overshadowing any relationship one (which honestly is a possibility, I again don't see why it has to be destructive, someone wants to work and not love, their right, they tell you, you part, all cool) you said the asc could be critical, which we don't have for him, but then you reverted to that interpretation full blast as if it were dead certain... so, I'm not even sure what that all means.

What I know is I am not a mouse. I don't get off sniffing at psychos and I don't enjoy pain or naively believe I have the ego I can change people. I do believe we all have the capacity to do right by others, whether by changing for them or letting them go.

Moon