posted September 01, 2019 12:47 PM            

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Originally posted by Sinder:
We actually didn’t do the chart including Dejinara..

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posted September 01, 2019 01:35 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Well, Dejanira is the victim asteroid. You need to include it. Otherwise you start to assume having nessus on its own points to abuse.

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(I have Gemini Nessus conjunct DC and trine Aqua Dejanira)

posted September 02, 2019 05:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kikisaan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by hypatia238:
[b] Well, Dejanira is the victim asteroid. You need to include it. Otherwise you start to assume having nessus on its own points to abuse.

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(I have Gemini Nessus conjunct DC and trine Aqua Dejanira)

[/B][/QUOTE]

If you have that in your chart then there is a theme in your life were these archetype plays out somehow, in your case in relationships bc is on your DC.Themes such as infidelity for example.

Dejanira I feel connects to a source of misfortune from which there is no escape, this can play out in a number of ways depending on the house it falls in.

This is why I have an issue defining very narrowly Nessus and Dejanira. If you look at their story nobody is truly a victim, everyone is being selfish!

posted September 02, 2019 07:28 PM            

The central story about Deianira concerns the Tunic of Nessus. A wild centaur named Nessus attempted to kidnap or rape Deianira as he was ferrying her across the river Euenos, but she was rescued by Heracles, who shot the centaur with a poisoned arrow. As he lay dying, Nessus persuaded Deianira to take a sample of his blood, telling her that a potion of it mixed with olive oil would ensure that Heracles would never again be unfaithful.

Deianira believed his words and kept a little of the potion by her. Heracles fathered illegitimate children all across Greece and then fell in love with Iole. When Deianira thus feared that her husband would leave her forever, she smeared some of the blood on Heracles' famous lionskin shirt. Heracles' servant, Lichas, brought him the shirt and he put it on. The centaur's toxic blood burned Heracles terribly, and eventually, he threw himself into a funeral pyre. In despair, Deianira committed suicide by hanging herself or with a sword.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deianira

Heracles: he gets married 4 times, Dejanira is his 3rd wife and his mortal half died bc she poisoned him by accident, she thought it was a potion to make him be faithful to her and run back into her arms. He is quite the player but he is also a hero who rescues Dejanira from Nessus who tries to rape her. Heracles clearly has commitment issues and is constantly chasing romances, he can't keep his D*ck inside his pants and this leads to the death of his mortal side.

Self-Mastery: Hercules/Heracles needs to learn to honor his commitments and keep his di*k inside his pants hahahaha.

Nessus: his journey towards self-mastery is in some ways poetically similar to Dejanira's, they both need to learn to figure out when is time to walk away from a love interest or "f*ck interest." Dejanira was willing to use force to keep Hercules faithful and interested or in love with her (e.g. by brainwashing him with a potion which takes away his free will and robs him of his journey towards self-mastery/personal growth). Nessus was willing to use force to fulfill his desire to be intimate with Dejanira (e.g.rape). Both Nessus and Dejanira have issues with violating boundaries which lead to their premature deaths and Hercules is addicted to the chase.

posted September 02, 2019 08:23 PM            

For example:

I have nessus in the 8H and my ex has Dejanira in the 2nd house. Dejanira is an area were we tend to give our power away or were we use manipulative tactics to get what we want and Nessus takes what it wants and doesn't think about the other, it just acts on instinct in a very primal way and can be relentless and vindictive (e.g. while he is dying gets dejanira to kill her husband who killed him to protect her with a poison arrow).

^If we were to be married, I might take advantage of him financially bc he has Dejanira in scorpio (joint finances) in the 2nd house (personal income) and I have nessus in the 8H in LEO, so maybe I would be selfish and use his money to spend it on entertainment and things that make me happy and bring fun into my life or to start a business (e.g. leo reasons). Since is easy for him to give his money away to person he is married to bc this is an area were he gives away his power and joint finances is an area were is easy for me to take power you can see how this can play out but at any moment he can stop giving away his power.

But what if instead he has dejanira in scorpio in the 2nd house and I had Hercules in the 8H. With a set up like this he feels he needs to give away his income to keep "me" interested and to avoid that I am unfaithful chasing after potentially "richer" men who can give me a better lifestyle (I don't care about money).

posted September 02, 2019 08:43 PM            

So each of these archetypes have strengths and weaknesses and free will and choices will dictate how the archetypes manifests in your life.

Dejanira gives away her power too easily but to fall in love you have to give away your power, Dejanira loves unconditionally, maybe loves too hard that it compromises her and leads to her lowering herself. Her strengths is her undying unconditional love and loyalty. Her weakness is that she is willing to manipulate so she can live with the illusion that who she loves also loves her in return or to force the person she loves to love her back instead of letting them go. She needs to learn that love sometimes is setting someone free instead of holding on blindly at whatever cost.

posted September 03, 2019 12:56 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Nessus on its own I don't feel is an issue. When both Nessus and Dejanira are featured strongly in synastry/Davison/Composite when looking at the three charts and you notice there is a theme with these two this is a red flag and you need to be aware and move forward with caution. Also understand when people have nessus aspect dejanira in synastry it doesn't always mean abuse either, often is an extra marital affair and if the person doesnt have natally an afflicted Mars it shouldn't manifest as physical abuse or violence bc that person is not prone to losing control or has anger issues ect..

Dejanira is more of an indicator of abuse and specially if both Dejanira and Nessus are featuring strongly and the theme repeats itself in multiple charts and there is an afflicted Mars ect..

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Wow, this is interesting. What is a strongly featured dejanira and nessus in synastry?

In a synastry, I have a few trines/sextiles with Dejanira and Nessus. In our composite, we have Dejanira conjunct Nessus 1'.

Nessus has always been attributed to abuse for me. Natally, I have Nessus square Venus in the 4th house. I experienced abuse - physical and emotional - at home until I left to attend college. I also have Dejanira in the 4th (makes sense) square my Moon in the 7th. I do feel I am the victim as I AM a victim. This also manifests as a mistrust in others intentions and a strong reluctance to be married (also relates to my Venus/Uranus conj).

posted September 03, 2019 12:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Nessus on its own I don't feel is an issue. When both Nessus and Dejanira are featured strongly in synastry/Davison/Composite when looking at the three charts and you notice there is a theme with these two this is a red flag and you need to be aware and move forward with caution. Also understand when people have nessus aspect dejanira in synastry it doesn't always mean abuse either, often is an extra marital affair and if the person doesnt have natally an afflicted Mars it shouldn't manifest as physical abuse or violence bc that person is not prone to losing control or has anger issues ect..

Dejanira is more of an indicator of abuse and specially if both Dejanira and Nessus are featuring strongly and the theme repeats itself in multiple charts and there is an afflicted Mars ect..

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Wow, this is interesting. What is a strongly featured dejanira and nessus in synastry?

In a synastry, I have a few trines/sextiles with Dejanira and Nessus. In our composite, we have Dejanira conjunct Nessus 1'.

Nessus has always been attributed to abuse for me. Natally, I have Nessus square Venus in the 4th house. I experienced abuse - physical and emotional - at home until I left to attend college. I also have Dejanira in the 4th (makes sense) square my Moon in the 7th. I do feel I am the victim as I AM a victim. This also manifests as a mistrust in others intentions and a strong reluctance to be married (also relates to my Venus/Uranus conj).

posted September 03, 2019 11:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ashes2Phoenix:
Wow, this is interesting. What is a strongly featured dejanira and nessus in synastry?

In a synastry, I have a few trines/sextiles with Dejanira and Nessus. In our composite, we have Dejanira conjunct Nessus 1'.

Nessus has always been attributed to abuse for me. Natally, I have Nessus square Venus in the 4th house. I experienced abuse - physical and emotional - at home until I left to attend college. I also have Dejanira in the 4th (makes sense) square my Moon in the 7th. I do feel I am the victim as I AM a victim. This also manifests as a mistrust in others intentions and a strong reluctance to be married (also relates to my Venus/Uranus conj).

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Exactly so BOTH Nessus and DEJANIRA are tied into your 4H so yes this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In your case you experienced abuse and BOTH of these asteroids are featured in your chart in connection to your house of home and early home life.

If nessus was just tied to your 4H and not Dejanira you would have not put in all caps "I AM" before victim bc Dejanira in the story kills herself at the end and a big reason why is bc she feels so helpless and hopeless regarding life circumstances that feel out of her control. Since Nessus is also tied into your 4H in addition to Dejanira this is a red flag of potential for abuse when both show up in a way that they connect some how (via aspect or house ect) but I would also check for a strong pluto influence in your chart and an afflicted Mars etc if we are talking about heavy abuse like what you speak of that you endured.

My husband has Dejanira in the 6H square Nessus in the 3H and Dejanira sextile his chart ruler Venus in the 4H. He was NOT abused like you but his parents divorced when he was a kid and this deeply affected him and made him feel like a victim bc these circumstances were completely out his control and impacted his family system something that naturally meant a lot to him since Venus in the 4H rules his chart, a few years later his father died as well, another circumstance completely out of his control. I also noticed he tends to feel like a victim in the work place specially in the context of interpersonal dynamics that play out in the workplace (dejanira in libra in the 6H) were he often feels taken advantage of etc...Last, he never felt accepted by his mother and felt a clear message growing up that his mother favored his older brother (nessus in the 3H square his Dejanira with Dejanira sextile chart ruler Venus in the 4H).

In his case he did not experience abuse in this overt type of way like you but what we call in my field cumulative trauma from feeling misattuned with mother (e.g. not accepted fully, emotionally neglected at times, she remarried and sent him off to boarding school after he lost his father ect, and then sent him away to college too ect).

He has nessus square dejanira and issues with his mom (venus in the 4H sextile Dejanira which squares nessus) and for a while this affected our marriage bc he was displacing anger towards me every time she would show up and want to spend time with him. He eventually cut ties with her.

posted September 03, 2019 11:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kikisaan:
@hypatia:
Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

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posted September 03, 2019 12:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Exactly so BOTH Nessus and DEJANIRA are tied into your 4H so yes this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In your case you experienced abuse and BOTH of these asteroids are featured in your chart in connection to your house of home and early home life.

If nessus was just tied to your 4H and not Dejanira you would have not put in all caps "I AM" before victim bc Dejanira in the story kills herself at the end and a big reason why is bc she feels so helpless and hopeless regarding life circumstances that feel out of her control. Since Nessus is also tied into your 4H in addition to Dejanira this is a red flag of potential for abuse when both show up in a way that they connect some how (via aspect or house ect) but I would also check for a strong pluto influence in your chart and an afflicted Mars etc if we are talking about heavy abuse like what you speak of that you endured.

My husband has Dejanira in the 6H square Nessus in the 3H and Dejanira sextile his chart ruler Venus in the 4H. He was NOT abused like you but his parents divorced when he was a kid and this deeply affected him and made him feel like a victim bc these circumstances were completely out his control and impacted his family system something that naturally meant a lot to him since Venus in the 4H rules his chart, a few years later his father died as well, another circumstance completely out of his control. I also noticed he tends to feel like a victim in the work place specially in the context of interpersonal dynamics that play out in the workplace (dejanira in libra in the 6H) were he often feels taken advantage of etc...Last, he never felt accepted by his mother and felt a clear message growing up that his mother favored his older brother (nessus in the 3H square his Dejanira with Dejanira sextile chart ruler Venus in the 4H).

In his case he did not experience abuse in this overt type of way like you but what we call in my field cumulative trauma from feeling misattuned with mother (e.g. not accepted fully, emotionally neglected at times, she remarried and sent him off to boarding school after he lost his father ect, and then sent him away to college too ect).

He has nessus square dejanira and issues with his mom (venus in the 4H sextile Dejanira which squares nessus) and for a while this affected our marriage bc he was displacing anger towards me every time she would show up and want to spend time with him. He eventually cut ties with her.

You have to understand that EVERYONE has nessus and dejanira in their chart, everyone, so if we were to have only one interpretation or rigid way of looking at both of these asteroids then that means we are all abusive and we are all victims. Hence why I emphasize the role of free will and that nessus can manifest in a positive way and that is important to look for a connection between nessus and dejanira if we are seeking markers for abuse and not single out nessus without dejanira tying into nessus some how.

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Thank you.

Like your husband, I also have issues with my mother may speak to the moon/dejanira square. I hold her accountable for not doing anything to stop the abuse and where she was also abused - not being strong enough to leave. My mother also plays the perpetual victim card with me as a manipulation tool, she plays with everyone except the person who abused her.

posted September 03, 2019 12:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Exactly so BOTH Nessus and DEJANIRA are tied into your 4H so yes this is a perfect example of what I am talking about. In your case you experienced abuse and BOTH of these asteroids are featured in your chart in connection to your house of home and early home life.

If nessus was just tied to your 4H and not Dejanira you would have not put in all caps "I AM" before victim bc Dejanira in the story kills herself at the end and a big reason why is bc she feels so helpless and hopeless regarding life circumstances that feel out of her control. Since Nessus is also tied into your 4H in addition to Dejanira this is a red flag of potential for abuse when both show up in a way that they connect some how (via aspect or house ect) but I would also check for a strong pluto influence in your chart and an afflicted Mars etc if we are talking about heavy abuse like what you speak of that you endured.

My husband has Dejanira in the 6H square Nessus in the 3H and Dejanira sextile his chart ruler Venus in the 4H. He was NOT abused like you but his parents divorced when he was a kid and this deeply affected him and made him feel like a victim bc these circumstances were completely out his control and impacted his family system something that naturally meant a lot to him since Venus in the 4H rules his chart, a few years later his father died as well, another circumstance completely out of his control. I also noticed he tends to feel like a victim in the work place specially in the context of interpersonal dynamics that play out in the workplace (dejanira in libra in the 6H) were he often feels taken advantage of etc...Last, he never felt accepted by his mother and felt a clear message growing up that his mother favored his older brother (nessus in the 3H square his Dejanira with Dejanira sextile chart ruler Venus in the 4H).

In his case he did not experience abuse in this overt type of way like you but what we call in my field cumulative trauma from feeling misattuned with mother (e.g. not accepted fully, emotionally neglected at times, she remarried and sent him off to boarding school after he lost his father ect, and then sent him away to college too ect).

He has nessus square dejanira and issues with his mom (venus in the 4H sextile Dejanira which squares nessus) and for a while this affected our marriage bc he was displacing anger towards me every time she would show up and want to spend time with him. He eventually cut ties with her.

You have to understand that EVERYONE has nessus and dejanira in their chart, everyone, so if we were to have only one interpretation or rigid way of looking at both of these asteroids then that means we are all abusive and we are all victims. Hence why I emphasize the role of free will and that nessus can manifest in a positive way and that is important to look for a connection between nessus and dejanira if we are seeking markers for abuse and not single out nessus without dejanira tying into nessus some how.

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Thank you.

Like your husband, I also have issues with my mother may speak to the moon/dejanira square. I hold her accountable for not doing anything to stop the abuse and where she was also abused - not being strong enough to leave. My mother also plays the perpetual victim card with me as a manipulation tool, she plays with everyone except the person who abused her.

posted September 03, 2019 01:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ashes2Phoenix:
Thank you.

Like your husband, I also have issues with my mother may speak to the moon/dejanira square. I hold her accountable for not doing anything to stop the abuse and where she was also abused - not being strong enough to leave. My mother also plays the perpetual victim card with me as a manipulation tool, she plays with everyone except the person who abused her.

My "release" was actually my Venus/Uranus conjunction in the 4th house. Escaping the environment and starting anew somewhere else as well as religion. At the time I was experiencing the abuse, I sought solace in prayer.

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I am glad you are no longer in that awful environment.

posted November 22, 2019 07:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Well, Dejanira is the victim asteroid. You need to include it. Otherwise you start to assume having nessus on its own points to abuse.

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posted November 23, 2019 04:33 PM            

Nessus has been specially present in my life and childhood, and I’ve noticed its theme being quite present in some composites. And the past few years I have faced Nessus related issues as transit Node passed by my natal Nessus and composite Nessus with my husband.

In my chart Nessus and Dejanira forms a grand trine to my Aries stellium. Dejanira also conjuncts Uranus.
There are also harsher aspects with Nessus, mainly Nessus square Saturn and Pluto midpoint.
I never really saw myself as a victim, although there were times my childhood was not great with my parents, they were harsh and abusive in a way. But I never blamed myself, I knew it was about them, even thought I inherited some unhealthy patterns that I need to work on. I think that I always saw myself as capable of working things out or that I was not too affected.

But the reason Nessus is still a theme in my life, specially with my husband, is because I was used to insensitivity and coldness, so I was familiar with such dynamic. We don’t realize something is not good when we don’t know what is healthy normal. My therapist said that I also chose him so I don’t truly connect emotionally and therefore won’t get seriously hurt.

As Saturn represents the father, it shows the harshness and coldness of my father. I actually never noticed until I gained more awareness. And now with the therapy, I also realized how restrictive he has been, and how it affected me.
My father may be a good person but he can be harsh and negative and hurtful too.

Then as Node transited to my Nessus and the Saturn and Pluto midpoint, I had to deal with my own resentments specially coming from my relationship.
It was a very hard moment of my life, and I was resentful of many things besides my husband. In our composite we also have this Nessus square Pluto and Saturn midpoint and oppose Mercury and Psyche. This aspect reflected well on how we couldn’t truly communicate with sensitivity. At the beginning I never really noticed the harshness and coldness of my husband, again because I was used to it, then recently it became clear.

To me, Nessus feels passionately resentful, but he also is at fault to get in the circumstances he is resentful of. Then he either can choose to be resentful and take revenge or heal and move past it.

But in synastry, me and my husband’s Nessus are in the same sign while his Nessus trine my Dejanira by sign and my Nessus conjunct his Dejanira by sign. His Dejanira may also complete the tsquare of my Mars oppose Pluto and square Jupiter. There were times when I was feeling too hurt by his lack of sensitivity that I became verbally mean to him. But he often took it, despite resenting it and in return I’d get more irritated as he should be more direct. He can be quite passive aggressive and not telling what he feels or thinks. I guess that I may find Dejanira too passive and at times passive aggressive when it comes to standing up for herself.

My sibling has Nessus conjunct Moon and Mars and displays BPD traits. My sibling got it worse when it comes to childhood trauma, was neglected and often left alone, plus our mom was quite mean and busive too. Our dad also was harsher to him. Now my sibling has lots of emotional issues and can be quite Nessus like in terms of resentment and engfulness. Whenever there is anger and explosiveness everyone notices and walks on egg shells.

posted December 01, 2019 01:12 PM            

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Originally posted by Sinder:
Hi! What about Nessu exact conj Deja in synastry?

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posted December 02, 2019 05:20 AM            

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Originally posted by Orange:
Nessus is very charismatic in relationships but more often than not, Nessus ends up taking advantage pf the planet person after seducing them in a passionate way.

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I had someone's Nessus conjunct my Sun. Totally seduced me. He hurt me. Even though it was not intentional. He just recently jabbed me a few punches, emotionally. But for some unknown reason to me, I cannot hurt him or even say or think a bad thing about him. I could very easily, but I just can't do it. I'd rather just keep quiet and not hurt him as much as he has hurt me. Go figure!

posted December 02, 2019 10:43 AM            

But now I'm worried I have his Nessus sextile my Venus in synastry. Orb 1 degree

And plus, his Nessus conjuncts my As tightly. Orb 0' 06 deg. Yeah... And tho I don't use the As in my work, the aspect disturbs me. Too tight.