posted August 23, 2019 03:55 PM            

My Mother

Since I was born I had a difficult relationship with her, mostly at the beginning because she was mostly at work, and my nanny from then raised me mostly, and of course, the violence and controlling ways that my dad have, all maybe had some kind of bad influence on me(and my sister), and my mother always rebelled on going on family meetings and stuff, and of course that all kind of hit me, and through time, I simply ended up resenting her. By not trying to be all of us 4 in the meetings and stuff.

As the years go by, she decided to be a housemom, but mostly as she had difficulties to face the competitiveness of her job and she couldn't deal with her peers(as an introvert and rigid person)... But as my dad left us, she literally got broken and never got back, as she literally isolated herself in our place, barely hanging with people or doing something to keep her stable, she only does cleaning and cooking, no mental or physical excercise, literally decaying herself for her order and structure, as me and my sister tried to continue with our lives in our different ways, my mother stayed the same, it's just now that I think it's the tipping point for me, as she's carrying too much stuff, moving here and there, to find an order it won't ever come, and many other stuff.

Of course I got a part on this as well, as my spoiled brat way of being raised, and my pseudobohemian lifestyle clashes all of the time with her, rigid, conservative and traditional lifestyle. And through my teenage and young adult years went by, I never really got to have a proper relationship with her, the accumulated resentment from the childhood never got released, and never really could materalize with her in the slightest, the mother-son bond. And even at every single little thing, I rebel, mostly because of the lack of respect I have for her, as she never got the willpower to leave her ditch. And I believe she can, but she doesn't.

Unfortunately she's killing herself trying to mantain an order, while my dad left a long ago, my sister's having her own life, and me with all of my historical difficulties, I'm trying to make my life, my way, she stays the same, and at this point, I think from day one, our bond I guess was always broken, and I don't think it will be repaired, and she won't change, or let go, or relax enough to just live and have some fun.

There's some more, but it's hard to explain it all in english as it is not my first language, but more or less I said most of what can be said.

It's kind of a shame that the most difficult relationship is with my mother, but, I guess that's part of my life journey and how to deal with it, and through my own adventure, how to break the karma, to make it better..

And that's just with my mother, then it's with my sister, and with my father, but that's for another day...

Here are the charts

posted August 25, 2019 06:24 AM            

Whenever I see these aspects in a natal, I ask the person whether they've had a difficult relationship with their mother and most of them say that they basically hate their mother. Then there are those who say that they have such a close and beautiful relationship with their mother. When you analyze it a little bit more though, the 'close' stands for some weird, obsessive and unhealthy bond between the two.

posted August 25, 2019 08:41 AM            

quote:

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As the years go by, she decided to be a housemom, but mostly as she had difficulties to face the competitiveness of her job and she couldn't deal with her peers(as an introvert and rigid person)... But as my dad left us, she literally got broken and never got back, as she literally isolated herself in our place, barely hanging with people or doing something to keep her stable, she only does cleaning and cooking, no mental or physical excercise, literally decaying herself for her order and structure, as me and my sister tried to continue with our lives in our different ways, my mother stayed the same, it's just now that I think it's the tipping point for me, as she's carrying too much stuff, moving here and there, to find an order it won't ever come, and many other stuff.

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From what you say and how you say it, I don't think you hate your mom. The feeling I get is that there's a deep pain involved when you see you parent "decaying" as you say it, that's because it's of your mother you're talking after all, and if you see through your resentment you can probably see that what you're resenting is her inability to be the strong mom you wish for, and what you regret is the "lack" of the kind of example she could have been for you, and what you miss is the kind of care she could have given to you if she were different... but as you say, she can't take care properly even of herself, from your point of view, just remaining trapped in her "old ways" and "rigid structure". Astrologically, I see that in hard Saturn and Pluto contacts in the natal; my mother has got something similar, I get the sensation that she's always been the same and has done little to move on, but again the point is the deep pain within (her emotional pain that leads to her own isolation): she doesn't have any friends, she doesn't hang out, she doesn't have hobbies or interests, she doesn't read or "feed" her mind, she's very into cleaning, more cleaning and the house stuff.... But what I have understood so far is that there's a profound difference between "hating your mom" and feeling pain for this because you'd like things to be far different and your complex inner feelings (that keep growing since childhood), that can't seem to find a way out, build up to resentment; the positive thing is that you've already realized that the only way to escape the same fate (you said karma) is to find your direction in life, evolve, learn; to use your experience positively instead of indulging in self-pity!
That's good!

The emotional difficulties you have with your mother are clearly reflected in that Pluto oppositions in the Composite and Davison, Moon-Pluto opposition is hard and as the 8th house overlays give that love-hate feeling, a very conflicting pattern to the relationship, it's hard to feel nurtured plus I see a Venus-Saturn conjunction and Saturn aspects that point to that "rigidity" you perceive and the lack of nurturing in childhood. Pluto is strong and you could go on forever identifying your mother with these archetypical energies; I had a turning point in my life years ago when, studying astrology, I read somewhere that having external planets in strong aspect with your natal inner planets or luminaries, can make you see you parents through the lenses of these energies, but on the other side you lack the understanding of their "humanity"; personally it helped me a lot -once these energies were understood- to stop perceiving my parents as Saturn-Pluto and it healed me a lot when I started to consider them for what they are, just as "humans" that have limits, and that made mistakes, they have their own personal (and familiar) history and pain, and they're also struggling to go on in this life as they can, doing what they can. I think that's the path that can lead you to forgiveness.
And now it's time to think about you and about the best that you can get from life, independently of them.
Expecting her to change will just make you more resentful because you don't see the changes you desire; so implement those changes in your own life instead. You will be more at peace with yourself; gradually maybe you will just be more at peace with her, even if you clearly see the clashing between your lifestyles; this leads to more pity towards her; even if it's difficult, try to see the dignity in her for what she is now; just break the loop of resentment and pity; just stop projecting an idea of mother she cannot live up to.

I send you blessings and hugs

posted August 25, 2019 09:18 AM            

Mom may have lacked maternal skills or was inconsistent in her affection. She was certainly a maverick and considered "crazy"(Moon in Aqua)

posted August 25, 2019 12:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HelixID:
[B]
Plutonian Moons are the worst thing to have in a natal chart.

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Come on, this is such a terrible, mean and extreme thing to say. Way to condemn a huge chunk of humanity because of one aspect.

I have moon square pluto and I'm very cool with it. I do not understand the gloom so many people make about it, it's the 90% cocoa dark chocolate of placements IF you want, but it's still chocolate, it's fine.
O and I don't hate my mum at all, poor silly *** her lol We're not close either, last word I'd use to describe our relationship, it's as low key as it gets.

posted August 25, 2019 02:45 PM            

quote:

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LF DX,
Moon square Pluto isn't just often a case of a "bad" mum (not loving enough etc....) it's also immensely talented at processing hardships and growing from them, making sense out of them. So is mars in Scorpio (I have that too).
Do not despair, you can 'recover' from a tough family life and find someone you'll be able to share that beautiful 7th house Libra venus with It just won't be easy vanilla, but then it'll be that much more exciting and rewarding.
Hang in there.

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posted August 25, 2019 04:14 PM            

The child-mother bond is one of the most important relationships in one's life. A bond that sets the course of one's entire life. If this relationship is bad and the insecurities acquired from that relationship are being played out in every other relationship someone has and if we agree that a Moon afflicted by Pluto is the indicator of such a dynamic, then I don't know what worse aspect there can be than that.

If someone would rather pick a gaslighting, manipulative and cruel mother over let's say a distant and non-available mother, then a Plutonian Moon would be better than a Saturnian Moon but this is not how I feel about it. That's why I find the Plutonian Moon the worst placement one can have.

posted August 25, 2019 04:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HelixID:
@Moonbeth
The OP wanted to know why he has a bad relationship with his mother and when I finished reading his post I immediately looked for a hard Moon-Pluto aspect in his natal and found it.
If you have a better theory I'd really like to hear it.

The child-mother bond is one of the most important relationships in one's life. A bond that sets the course of one's entire life. If this relationship is bad and the insecurities acquired from that relationship are being played out in every other relationship someone has and if we agree that a Moon afflicted by Pluto is the indicator of such a dynamic, then I don't know what worse aspect there can be than that.

If someone would rather pick a gaslighting, manipulative and cruel mother over let's say a distant and non-available mother, then a Plutonian Moon would be better than a Saturnian Moon but this is not how I feel about it. That's why I find the Plutonian Moon the worst placement one can have.

It has nothing to do with being mean to someone.

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I'm sorry I mistook you being a prophet for meanness.

Thank you so very much for making me realise who my mother really is: gaslighting, cruel and manipulative, and what my relationship to her, and everyone else since, actually is. I was so lost before you proved me, by simply insisting, that your narrow opinion is THE truth.
I cannot believe I have thought of myself as an individual and imagined others could be too, when all this time all we only were was your reduced and extreme take on moon-pluto.

It is so fortunate too that you looked for it immediately, so much else in the charts could have explained parts of the rapport, but thanks to your clairvoyance those won't matter as you have seen THE only truth.

Thank you very much for freeing me and opening my mind with your gentle approach, clearly explained points and truth.

I will now proceed to commit suicide as it is the only way to ensure I break that loop you have seen all of us with moon-pluto in.

posted August 25, 2019 04:53 PM            

Well said Moonbeth![/B][/QUOTE]

posted August 25, 2019 05:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Moonbeth:

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Well said Moonbeth![/B][/QUOTE]

Thank you my lovely.[/B][/QUOTE]

posted August 26, 2019 03:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HelixID:
@Moonbeth
This was a really unecessary response from you to my post. If you feel personally attacked by what I've said, then this is your problem.
I don't have anything to add anymore.

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Of course my response was unnecessary, it's a bloody forum lol My response was as unnecessary as your gross generalisation and condemning that anyone with moon-pluto has a mother-hater aspect they can do naught about.

It is a form of attack to every person with that aspect (though I'm not personally hit; being fortunate enough to not be able to relate, can't imagine the potential damage something like this could have on a young soul in a close relationship with their mother; just tired of seeing so many people here use astrology as a shield for obtuse ideas on people) simply because judgement that implies someone cannot be whole or have a healthy relationship with a parent is an attack (precisely because of what you actually understand: that these relationships are founding. Someone poured out about their difficult relationship with their mother and you told them "yep, you hate her, nothing to do about it". Do you load the gun for people who express suicidal thoughts or hand a knife to any hot blooded person who says "I'm so angry I could kill him/her" too?

You're right, it's not your problem that your judging and reductive comment is offending or hurting or whatever to others, exactly like racists feel it's not their problem when they claim people with different skin colours are inferiors. After all, you all are only speaking your truth.

posted August 26, 2019 03:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chaitaly:
I think "processing" here is the key, and gaining strenght from hardships it's true that the strenght to go through the difficulty it's there as well in the individual

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posted August 26, 2019 02:19 PM            

I know that the hades moon sucks, I saw the article, and I had some of what it said through my life, but at the same time, it's very fatalistic and negative the way it expresses, and I hope to never reach those lows again, if not with my mother, with the women I'll meet on the road.

But that's my experience, and I know that other people can handle better their plutonian moons, and that view of the moon-pluto square being a guaranteed bad thing, I disagree with that. I know with time and more learning that I'll properly handle this troublesome energy, and as you can see, I have not just pluto, but sun and mars squaring that moon, so I have a lot of work to do to learn and to heal in the nurturing part. Even the worst aspects in our natal chart can bring something good if you know how to channel the energy.

@Chaitaly: your response is the one I liked the most, and I think it's probably one of the hardest things for me to do, to learn to forgive my entire family for the ****** childhood I have. I still harbor resentment to everyone, and even if my life kinda improved in so many things, the core of my humanity it's still very broken, and is probably now that I have to resolve some of it, specially with my mother because I live with her, and as I don't have a stable job(being a musician in bloody Paraguay and stick to your calling even if economical stability is missing it's quite a challenge) to move or to help a bit more, I have to learn how to live with her, and not getting burned in the process, my dad left my house a long time ago(that **** has a lot to do with my troubles as well), and my older sister(she also had a part), who had a better and more stable childhood lives her life pretty much outside the place, so it's me who has to carry the hard burden. And it's getting harder and harder with the more fights we have.

@Aries23Degrees: yeah, she kinda makes me feel unstable at times

I will add some more stuff in the future, but to express it all in english it's hard, so it'll be in pieces.

posted August 26, 2019 03:21 PM            

quote:

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@Chaitaly: your response is the one I liked the most, and I think it's probably one of the hardest things for me to do, to learn to forgive my entire family for the ****** childhood I have. I still harbor resentment to everyone, and even if my life kinda improved in so many things, the core of my humanity it's still very broken, and is probably now that I have to resolve some of it, specially with my mother because I live with her, and as I don't have a stable job(being a musician in bloody Paraguay and stick to your calling even if economical stability is missing it's quite a challenge) to move or to help a bit more, I have to learn how to live with her, and not getting burned in the process, my dad left my house a long time ago(that **** has a lot to do with my troubles as well), and my older sister(she also had a part), who had a better and more stable childhood lives her life pretty much outside the place, so it's me who has to carry the hard burden. And it's getting harder and harder with the more fights we have.

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My dear, thank you so much.
I understand the difficulty of living with your mother having unresolved issues with her, harbored in yourself for so long; they all tend to come to the surface in the worst way.
I know what it means because I had to live the same situation 2 years ago, and to say that we had some very dramatic fights is to say the least.
Our fights were quite violent.
What I can tell you is that your your mother has only 50% of responsibility; I know you won't like this, but it's what I realized living with mine; you can think she's guilty because she triggers you and she gets on your nerves, but the truth is that you CAN change or better the situation if you work on yourself: if she triggers you, for example, it's also true that you probably have innate responses towards her, or you react in ways that are automatic and seem out of your control. If you work on this, it will get better. At the beginning it can be hard, but try this: just ignore what triggers you; sometimes when I didn't respond to the provocation I saw that the reasons to argue would vanish pretty quickly, because I was not alimenting them!
It takes work but you can do it! Just try to hold yourself despite the triggers; the fight won't go on and you can turn yourself to something more useful and less destructive.

posted August 26, 2019 05:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HelixID:
@LF DX

What I tell myself and others with such a Moon is not to seek for approval or affection of the mother. She can't give it for some reason or other. Distance and limited contact helps a lot. I can't change my mother and how she feels about me but I can control how I deal with all of it. The hard part is letting go of resentment, resolving trust issues and the feeling that everyone is out there to get you. But the good thing about this part is that it's within our control and that we can decide whether to dwell on the past and blame our mothers for our issues or to turn it into something positive.

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posted August 26, 2019 05:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LF DX:

Thanks to all
Cheers

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posted August 27, 2019 07:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HelixID:
@LF DX

What I tell myself and others with such a Moon is not to seek for approval or affection of the mother. She can't give it for some reason or other. Distance and limited contact helps a lot. I can't change my mother and how she feels about me but I can control how I deal with all of it. The hard part is letting go of resentment, resolving trust issues and the feeling that everyone is out there to get you. But the good thing about this part is that it's within our control and that we can decide whether to dwell on the past and blame our mothers for our issues or to turn it into something positive.

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posted April 27, 2020 12:32 PM            

Unfortunately, I can no longer coexist with my mother anymore. In these quarantine times she had a bad nervous breakdown, as she didn't took her medication for hypothyroidism, and she got altered so badly that she even punched me, her obsessions and paranoias went at a all time high, and as we tried with my sister to take her to her mum's place (my mom's family lives there) she said a few things that she couldn't do a thing without me, that made me realize that I could no longer tolerate her anymore, that I wanted my freedom, that every posibility to have a connection are done. We left her at her mum's place to chill, and I stayed alone at my house to be apart from her, and learnt how to do the chores and to cook at the tender age of 28. But the most important thing, is that I felt peace, and for the first time, after learning my first steps to take care of a house, I found also my first signs of order and discipline that I lacked for my entire life... I think is a thing of my saturn return I guess; but anyway, I spend the majority of april on my own, with some visits from my sister to give me provisions, and I didn't miss my mom at all.