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Author
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Topic: What truly glues: Saturn DW
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Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 03:04 AM
  
Whenever I see a couple who go through all kinds of r/s challenges but still stay together, I go to their Synastry to see what could be causing this 'glue' and I always found that they have their Saturn in major aspect to each other's personal planets in DW (e.g. his Saturn trine her Moon + her Saturn square his Moon or his Saturn conjunct her Sun + her Saturn sextile his Sun, or Saturn to each other's Venus or to a lesser occurrence, Mercury & Mars). And these contacts are all in DWs, not just one way. And it seems to me that you need only 1 pair of such DWs for the Saturn glue to really stick. I'm not sure if it works the same way if you have 1 major aspect combine with 1 minor aspect. I've not observed this e.g. but I've observed that if the DW is both in minor aspects, it doesn't glue as with the e.g. of my friend and her ex... on/off for 1+yrs until an eventual break over nothing. I also checked Synastry Saturn to angles but this doesn't really stand out to me. Some of those long-term relationships have this contact, some don't. I also noticed that even if you have a Saturn strong composite but your synastry doesn't have any Saturn DWs, the glue may not be strong enough, e.g. my first r/s which was short-lived despite cSaturn aspecting Moon/Venus/Mars but we've no DWs in Synastry. Also my friend's last r/s - Saturn conj Sun/Mars in their composite but they don't have any Saturn DWs in Synastry and the r/s only lasted 3 months. Did you notice this in your long-term r/s or those that didn't last despite your best efforts to make it work? IP: Logged |
Aries23Degrees
Knowflake Posts: 8310
From: South Africa
Registered: Dec 2012
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posted November 21, 2019 05:49 AM
I guess it makes sense since Saturn is the ruler of commitment & is therefore exalted in contract governing 7th house.But I see Saturn as more guilt-ridden than loving. More " I made a promise" than "I choose to do this" etc.So through hardships, people bound by Saturn tend to endure to face the end goal in mind(honoring a promise) than pure love. Perhaps love is a part of honoring a promise? I can't say for sure. All I know about Sat is that it feels burdensome and limiting before it feels joyful. With Saturn in 7th or on Venus for instance,you learn to work within the scraps that "love" gives you.Its painful long before it starts to feel good i.e you marry someone who doesn't love you or You them. But over time, you learn to deal because you feel "bound" to them as they to you. So DW's tend to emphasize this. It feels more like a business contract than a love relationship. A contract drawn by Kronos himself. Its DIFFICULT to break. IP: Logged |
margym0o
Knowflake Posts: 1230
From: The Great White North
Registered: Jul 2014
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posted November 21, 2019 09:32 AM
I tend to disagree, with Saturn being crucial to long-term relationships/marriages. At least in synastry. I'm sure statistically if you look at the charts of couples who have divorced, 9/10 times there is Saturn contact somewhere, but it has fallen apart in other unfulfilled areas. In my own personal life, I have had long-term relationships end with significant Saturn contacts, whereas my longest/most significant relationship now has only minor Saturn contact in our synastry, but strong Saturn trines in our composite. Is that the glue keeping us together? I think there is more to it than that. As Aries alluded to, strong Saturn contact can feel heavy, burdensome, like you "have" to be together...especially if there isn't enough other positive contact balancing it out. I think if the relationship is compelling enough to want to stay in because you truly enjoy being with them, and the willingness is there to work through any challenges that arise, you don't necessarily NEED Saturn to go the distance. IP: Logged |
GalacticCoreExplosion
Knowflake Posts: 1033
From: Somewhere
Registered: Sep 2019
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posted November 21, 2019 09:46 AM
It's probably obvious, but what do you mean by "DW"? IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 09:50 AM
I don't mean Saturn is unbreakable. What I mean is when you see a Saturn double whammy in Synastry, it usually takes a lot to break the couple. It could be like what Aries23 said, a sense of duty bound them, or in some cases, fear bounds them. I cannot assume there's no love. We have to look at the whole chart. Also just to clarify... if you have lotsa other nice things going on in Synastry, of course no problem staying together (lol). What I've highlighted is how Saturn DW works its "glue" in challenging relationships. Whether this is good or bad or whether this is love is not my point. IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 09:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
It's probably obvious, but what do you mean by "DW"?
Double whammy. And btw, I'm highlighting specifically DWs in synastry, not just having Saturn contacts in synastry which is EXTREMELY common. IP: Logged |
GalacticCoreExplosion
Knowflake Posts: 1033
From: Somewhere
Registered: Sep 2019
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posted November 21, 2019 10:32 AM
Ah, thank you for the explanation. My core partner and I of 18+ years have some Saturn stuff going on. Saturn is the ruler of her chart via late Cap ASC, and is very closely conjunct Jupiter in Libra. That conjunction is conjunct my Moon (ruler of the 12th). My Saturn is trine her Ascendant and in her 8th. Not in aspect, but my Saturn is in the opposite sign of her Mercury (ruler of 5th) and Mars (ruler of 3rd and 10th). Saturn is a sensitive/receptive point in my chart since it 's the faster moving ruler of my Sun, Mercury, Venus, and Descendant Signs. But we also have a lot of Venus, Sun, Ascendant/Descendant, Jupiter, Moon, Nodal, Mars, etc, stuff also going on. It's a pretty all 5 level/7 center connection. It's one of those relationships that only death shall do us part, but not even really that. If my body passes before hers (and she has had multiple dreams of this), then I will still look out for her. IP: Logged |
manymoones
Knowflake Posts: 161
From:
Registered: Aug 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 01:52 PM
My husband’s Saturn is on my NN/Venus and my NN is on his Saturn/Mercury. In late degree Capricorn (26-30 degrees) I have Saturn, Venus, and NN. He has NN, Mercury, Saturn. IP: Logged |
Kannon McAfee
Moderator Posts: 4226
From: Portland, OR - USA
Registered: Oct 2011
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posted November 21, 2019 03:30 PM
You know where synastry talk goes ... Moving this to Interpersonal Astrology. ------------------
Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations Guy
Expert birth chart rectification IP: Logged |
vansio
Knowflake Posts: 847
From: on the outskirts of Delphi
Registered: Dec 2017
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posted November 21, 2019 03:39 PM
.IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 10:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by manymoones:
My husband’s Saturn is on my NN/Venus and my NN is on his Saturn/Mercury. In late degree Capricorn (26-30 degrees) I have Saturn, Venus, and NN. He has NN, Mercury, Saturn.
Saturn-Nodes is very gluey as well even if you just have it one way, and you have a DW!
IP: Logged |
Plut0nian2
Knowflake Posts: 1047
From:
Registered: Apr 2014
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posted November 21, 2019 11:20 PM
I wish this was true but in my case hard synastry Saturn aspects act as an obstacle, once you overcome it, another larger one appears and this circle never stops. I agree with quite a few interpetations saying Saturn synastry aspects prevent a relationship from happening altogether.
That's the only side I've experienced, I never got the glue side, specifically I'm talking about Saturn in partner's 7th H
Saturn conjuncting the DSC
Saturn opposite Sun Saturn square Mars
Saturn opposite Moon
Saturn conjunct North Node
Those Saturn aspects were in synastries that otherwise were very nice.
IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 11:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vansio:
I’ve wondered how declinations play a part in synastry double whammy. for example: one person’s Saturn conjunct their NN and other person’s Saturn *parallel* their NN (orb 0°09).I have this with someone alongside Saturn/Venus DW
Not sure, it probably works too? Some say declinations is also impactful while some say it's of lesser effect. Then again, you have Venus-Saturn DW so that's significant. Are they in major aspects? In declination, his Saturn parallels my Sun. I read up the conjunction interpretation but I don't feel he's that hard on me as Saturn. He sometimes checks on me and I always thought that was Pluto.
IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 11:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
It's a pretty all 5 level/7 center connection. It's one of those relationships that only death shall do us part, but not even really that. If my body passes before hers (and she has had multiple dreams of this), then I will still look out for her.
That's a really nice relationship you have! Saturn being one of the angle rulers or relationship house rulers makes it more significant. Do you also have angle to angle conjunctions because you mentioned you have ASC/DSC stuff going on? Btw, how do you feel having your Saturn in her 8th house? I also have my Saturn is my guy's 8th house conjunct his Mars and I've read horrible descriptions of these 2 connections. My Saturn also square his Moon and this is yet another so-called worst aspect in Synastry (haha). But I don't experience what the interpretations say though, maybe because these are our relationship house rulers - Saturn rules my 8th, Mars rules his 5th and Moon rules his 8th. IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 21, 2019 11:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Plut0nian2:
I wish this was true but in my case hard synastry Saturn aspects act as an obstacle, once you overcome it, another larger one appears and this circle never stops. I agree with quite a few interpetations saying Saturn synastry aspects prevent a relationship from happening altogether.
That's the only side I've experienced, I never got the glue side, specifically I'm talking about Saturn in partner's 7th H
Saturn conjuncting the DSC
Saturn opposite Sun Saturn square Mars
Saturn opposite Moon
Saturn conjunct North Node
Those Saturn aspects were in synastries that otherwise were very nice.
Sorry to hear that your Saturn contacts only serves to block. Maybe Saturn harsh aspects Sun/Moon/Mars altogether proves to be too much? I also noticed there's no double whammy (DW) in there which is the emphasis of my OP. Once 2 people get into a relationship and you see a Saturn DW in their Synastry, I noticed it glues them for good or bad through very difficult times. I'm in a relationship with Saturn trine/square Moon DW. In addition we have Saturn conjunct Mars, Saturn square Nodes, Saturn square Mercury and Saturn parallel Sun. It's not easy for us to be together and we gave up a few times before... but somehow we kept coming back together (couldn't do a clean break) and finally we decided to give it a shot. I'm trying to find answers in our Synastry as to what caused us to keep coming back together. We don't have significant Nodes or Vertex except Saturn square Nodes which I mentioned above and Nodes square IC/MC, Vertex conjunct Psyche/Ceres (are these even significant)? But Vertex is featured strongly in our Composite. One other synastry explanation could be that our angles are conjunct - ASC conj DSC, IC conj MC - it's highly attractive IMO but some say this is no glue.
IP: Logged |
vansio
Knowflake Posts: 847
From: on the outskirts of Delphi
Registered: Dec 2017
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posted November 22, 2019 01:38 AM
-IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 22, 2019 03:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by vansio:
My Saturn trines his Venus, his Saturn squares mine—which I find ridiculous because the Saturn-squaring person is notoriously the “insecure” one in the dynamic.
I feel that too! My Saturn square his Moon but I feel that I'm the insecure one. IP: Logged |
AriesLilith
Knowflake Posts: 836
From:
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted November 22, 2019 04:56 AM
I'd also vote for Saturn aspects, more of positive ones, in composites. Synastry can show how two people perceive each other but composite can show how the relationship energy is as a whole.IP: Logged |
Bismarck2
Knowflake Posts: 464
From:
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted November 22, 2019 07:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
Whenever I see a couple who go through all kinds of r/s challenges but still stay together, I go to their Synastry to see what could be causing this 'glue' and I always found that they have their Saturn in major aspect to each other's personal planets in DW (e.g. his Saturn trine her Moon + her Saturn square his Moon or his Saturn conjunct her Sun + her Saturn sextile his Sun, or Saturn to each other's Venus or to a lesser occurrence, Mercury & Mars). And these contacts are all in DWs, not just one way. And it seems to me that you need only 1 pair of such DWs for the Saturn glue to really stick. I'm not sure if it works the same way if you have 1 major aspect combine with 1 minor aspect. I've not observed this e.g. but I've observed that if the DW is both in minor aspects, it doesn't glue as with the e.g. of my friend and her ex... on/off for 1+yrs until an eventual break over nothing. I also checked Synastry Saturn to angles but this doesn't really stand out to me. Some of those long-term relationships have this contact, some don't. I also noticed that even if you have a Saturn strong composite but your synastry doesn't have any Saturn DWs, the glue may not be strong enough, e.g. my first r/s which was short-lived despite cSaturn aspecting Moon/Venus/Mars but we've no DWs in Synastry. Also my friend's last r/s - Saturn conj Sun/Mars in their composite but they don't have any Saturn DWs in Synastry and the r/s only lasted 3 months. Did you notice this in your long-term r/s or those that didn't last despite your best efforts to make it work?
Well yah, a DW creates an aspect in the composite, whereas a single aspect might not. IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 749
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted November 22, 2019 07:57 PM
I'm in a relationship right now that has a lot of Saturn going on. We've broken up once but we just can't seem to make a permanent split no matter how bad it gets. No abuse or anything like that, just really difficult circumstances and we both handle them in drastically different ways. Synastry
My Saturn on his IC
My Saturn squaring his NN SN
My Saturn opposite his chiron
My Saturn parallel his descendant His Saturn (conjunct Jupiter) in my 5H trine my nn sextile my sn
His Saturn squaring my jupiter Davison
Saturn sextile venus exact
Saturn square moon exact
Saturn conjunct Pluto 4H
Saturn contra parallel Pluto
Saturn square ascendant
Saturn parallel his Juno Composite
Saturn conjunct Pluto
Saturn trine venus
Saturn trine Mercury
Saturn square moon
Saturn parallel sun
Saturn parallel my moon IP: Logged |
Dons2angelss
Knowflake Posts: 749
From: Virginia, US
Registered: Jan 2019
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posted November 22, 2019 10:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
I'm in a relationship right now that has a lot of Saturn going on. We've broken up once but we just can't seem to make a permanent split no matter how bad it gets. No abuse or anything like that, just really difficult circumstances and we both handle them in drastically different ways. Synastry
My Saturn on his IC
My Saturn squaring his NN SN
My Saturn opposite his chiron
My Saturn parallel his descendant His Saturn (conjunct Jupiter) in my 5H trine my nn sextile my sn
His Saturn squaring my jupiter Davison
Saturn sextile venus exact
Saturn square moon exact
Saturn conjunct Pluto 4H
Saturn contra parallel Pluto
Saturn square ascendant
Saturn parallel his Juno Composite
Saturn conjunct Pluto
Saturn trine venus
Saturn trine Mercury
Saturn square moon
Saturn parallel sun
Saturn parallel my moon
So I just realized that we have Pluto conjunct and opposite (contra paralell) Saturn in the 4H. This relationship is going to force both of us to literally dig to the deepest parts of each of us to clear anything that stands in the way of becoming two more complete people. The dynamic of the opposition will put both of our individual wills at war, basically battling the negative traits we both carry, then Pluto conjunct Saturn bringing us closer together through the deep struggles. This has been one of the most difficult relationships I've ever had. Our natal charts mirror each other. My sun in the 12H, his conjunct Neptune His moon in the 8H opposite and mine conjunct Pluto My venus trine jupiter opposite Saturn and his Saturn in libra conjunct jupiter My Uranus in the 7H, his venus exactly conjunct uranus Our angles, vertex, and nn's make some really heavy connections far into the future and if we're going to make it we're definitely going to need those Saturn contacts. Especially me, I have a strong tendency to run when things get tough. He's the first person that I just can't run away from, I don't want to and it feels so fated that I have to see it through. The deep love is there and it doesn't feel like a burden but, it's insanely difficult.
IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 23, 2019 10:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bismarck2:
Well yah, a DW creates an aspect in the composite, whereas a single aspect might not.
It's strange then as we have Saturn-Moon DW in synastry but no Moon-Saturn aspect in Composite. I also don't understand why some of our harmonious DWs became a harsh aspect in Composite. IP: Logged |
Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 23, 2019 10:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by AriesLilith:
I'd also vote for Saturn aspects, more of positive ones, in composites. Synastry can show how two people perceive each other but composite can show how the relationship energy is as a whole.
I'm still not sure about Saturn being a must-have in Composite, or if you have it, it necessarily glues. My friend has cSaturn conjunct Sun/Mars with her ex but there's no glue. The relationship only lasted 3 mths and it was unstable from the start. Their cUranus squares took the centre stage instead in creating distance, hot/cold feelings and sudden break-off. I noted that they have Saturn contacts in Synastry but no DWs in major aspects. Another couple friends with barely any Saturn in Composite except squares to Nodes have stuck together for 3+yrs despite conflicts. In fact, their Synastry is plagued by Uranus squares/oppositions. But they have Saturn trine/square Moon DW, Saturn conjunct ASC, trine Mercury.
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Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2443
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted November 23, 2019 10:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dons2angelss:
Synastry
My Saturn on his IC
My Saturn squaring his NN SN
My Saturn opposite his chiron
My Saturn parallel his descendant His Saturn (conjunct Jupiter) in my 5H trine my nn sextile my sn
His Saturn squaring my jupiter
I believe your Saturn-Nodes DW is the strong glue here. IP: Logged |
Bismarck2
Knowflake Posts: 464
From:
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted November 23, 2019 01:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
It's strange then as we have Saturn-Moon DW in synastry but no Moon-Saturn aspect in Composite.I also don't understand why some of our harmonious DWs became a harsh aspect in Composite.
But you probably have another Saturn aspect in the composite. In a synastry I have with someone we have a sun/sun and mercury/mercury square. In the composite it became a mercury/mars square. A mutual aspect might not create an aspect in the composite between those two exact planets if the aspects aren't the same both ways, but it might create another aspect, such as Saturn trine ASC or Saturn in the first. IP: Logged |
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