posted December 16, 2020 04:51 PM            

Synastry, I’m the inside:

Composite:

posted December 17, 2020 02:22 AM            

Hence ... the Davison Chart is indicating that an issue (relating to Saturn-Uranus-Neptune) in this relationship's 11th house will adversely affect the activities of the 12th house - in a way that, until resolved, will prevent effective use of the positive qualities of Pisces, Virgo, Sun, Mercury and Venus.

So ... might one (or both) of you be seeing the other through rose-coloured spectacles?*

[ * The Mercury-Uranus square in the Composite Chart will create a temporary Thor's Hammer issue whenever a progressed to transit planet passes through 20Taurus37. ... So, you might find it helpful to review any (past or/and future) events created by the activation of that Hammer - since it is a permanent feature of this relationship.]

posted December 17, 2020 09:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
That Composite Chart Sun-Mercury-Venus in Virgo/1st is intercepted in the Davison Chart Virgo/7th, which results in the Capricorn Saturn-Uranus-Neptune being in the duplicated 11th house of the Davison Chart.

Hence ... the Davison Chart is indicating that an issue (relating to Saturn-Uranus-Neptune) in this relationship's 11th house will adversely affect the activities of the 12th house - in a way that, until resolved, will prevent [b]effective use of the positive qualities of Pisces, Virgo, Sun, Mercury and Venus.

So ... might one (or both) of you be seeing the other through rose-coloured spectacles?*

[ * The Mercury-Uranus square in the Composite Chart will create a temporary Thor's Hammer issue whenever a progressed to transit planet passes through 20Taurus37. ... So, you might find it helpful to review any (past or/and future) events created by the activation of that Hammer - since it is a permanent feature of this relationship.]

[/B]

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posted December 17, 2020 10:41 AM            

quote:

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Would you perhaps be able to take a look at the synastry? I was under the impression that the heavy Pluto and Saturn aspects would have made this a long term and serious relationship.

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In synastry ... Difficult sspects between A's inner and B's inner planets indicate personality clashes; inner to outer planets indicate generational differences - and outer to outer planets indicate serious issues that if not handles correctly have the potential to end the relationship, but if handled correctly will result in a long-lasting partnership. ... So, heavy Pluto and Saturn aspects to a partner's inner planets can indeed make this a long-term and serious relationship.

When calculating these aspects I use an orb of half that used by me in natal charts for the same aspect (as two natal charts double the number of potential aspects in the synastry). ... So, let's ignore the positive/easy aspects in this relationship, and focus upon the following difficult outer-to-inner synastry aspects - which have particularly close orbs, and the most potential to make or break the partnership :-

1. His Saturn opposite your Sun-Venus-Mars.
2. His Saturn square your Moon.
3. His Pluto square your Sun-Venus-Mars.
4. His Pluto opposite your Moon.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In all planetary cycles, the slower-moving body is shaping/"teaching" the faster-moving body. In synastry, that translates as "the outer planet person is shaping/teaching the inner planet person". ... And recognising/accepting that is the first step in correctly (or objectively) handling difficult outer-to-inner planet aspects/contacts/interactons/behaviours.

posted December 17, 2020 11:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
Originally posted by MonteCristo :-

In synastry ... Difficult sspects between A's inner and B's inner planets indicate personality clashes; inner to outer planets indicate generational differences - and outer to outer planets indicate serious issues that [b]if not handles correctly have the potential to end the relationship, but if handled correctly will result in a long-lasting partnership. ... So, heavy Pluto and Saturn aspects to a partner's inner planets can indeed make this a long-term and serious relationship.

When calculating these aspects I use an orb of half that used by me in natal charts for the same aspect (as two natal charts double the number of potential aspects in the synastry). ... So, let's ignore the positive/easy aspects in this relationship, and focus upon the following difficult outer-to-inner synastry aspects - which have particularly close orbs, and the most potential to make or break the partnership :-

1. His Saturn opposite your Sun-Venus-Mars.
2. His Saturn square your Moon.
3. His Pluto square your Sun-Venus-Mars.
4. His Pluto opposite your Moon.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In all planetary cycles, the slower-moving body is shaping/"teaching" the faster-moving body. In synastry, that translates as "the outer planet person is shaping/teaching the inner planet person". ... And recognising/accepting that is the first step in correctly (or objectively) handling difficult outer-to-inner planet aspects/contacts/interactons/behaviours.

[/B]

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Does this seem like a positive relationship? I know that’s a loaded question. However, from its inception, I’ve felt that it was too difficult, whereas he disagreed. We don’t live in the same city anymore and he was pushing to try things regardless. I, personally, would do anything for true love, and this would require me to move cities, go to a school that I’m not crazy about for my masters, and live in a climate that I do not like. If the relationship is worth it, I would do it...however, the amount of difficulties we’ve already had (in my opinion) point to a life where I would be lonely in the end, a stranger in my own “home”. He is an amazing person, and he possesses so many qualities that I have always dreamed of in a man... but I don’t want my fire to be put out, or my individualism to be smushed, I want someone to elevate me and me to elevate someone. I don’t feel a “warmth” with him. I do feel admiration and attraction and a similarity in intellect, but that jovial and happy feeling when you first begin to love someone I think only exists in my imagination. I can’t tell if what I’m feeling is true or not. The past five weeks we have had some amazing conversations and have bonded, but I am not sure if I am seeing him through the “rose colored glasses” that you mentioned before. Like, everything is fine and dandy now, yet if I move there and we are really together day to day, whether that romantic and dreamy aspect to the relationship would in fact be reality. And on top of that, I’m impulsive. I will drop all things if I believe that I’ve found my true love, which can definitely be a problem if I’m disillusioned and not seeing someone correctly.

I know I have transiting Neptune in my 5th house, and transiting Uranus in my 7th, which seems to call for disillusionment and erratic short-lived relationships.

posted December 17, 2020 11:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MonteCristo:
Does this seem like a positive relationship? I know that’s a loaded question. However, from its inception, I’ve felt that it was too difficult, whereas he disagreed. We don’t live in the same city anymore and he was pushing to try things regardless. I, personally, would do anything for true love, and this would require me to move cities, go to a school that I’m not crazy about for my masters, and live in a climate that I do not like. If the relationship is worth it, I would do it...however, the amount of difficulties we’ve already had (in my opinion) point to a life where I would be lonely in the end, a stranger in my own “home”. He is an amazing person, and he possesses so many qualities that I have always dreamed of in a man... but I don’t want my fire to be put out, or my individualism to be smushed, I want someone to elevate me and me to elevate someone. I don’t feel a “warmth” with him. I do feel admiration and attraction and a similarity in intellect, but that jovial and happy feeling when you first begin to love someone I think only exists in my imagination. I can’t tell if what I’m feeling is true or not. The past five weeks we have had some amazing conversations and have bonded, but I am not sure if I am seeing him through the “rose colored glasses” that you mentioned before. Like, everything is fine and dandy now, yet if I move there and we are really together day to day, whether that romantic and dreamy aspect to the relationship would in fact be reality. And on top of that, I’m impulsive. I will drop all things if I believe that I’ve found my true love, which can definitely be a problem if I’m disillusioned and not seeing someone correctly.

I know I have transiting Neptune in my 5th house, and transiting Uranus in my 7th, which seems to call for disillusionment and erratic short-lived relationships.

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Let's work through his issues one step at a time. ... Then, you can decide if the relationship is or is not "worth it".

So ... do you believe in past lives and karma? ... And, do you believe that childhood events/influences condition our habitual/instinctive behaviour as adults?

posted December 17, 2020 11:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MonteCristo:
I do, 100%

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I have to now sign off the forum for today, but will return to this asap tomorrow.

However ... these Saturn and Pluto aspects indicate that you are reminding him (via his subconscious/unconscious mind) of someone - in a past life or/and childhood - who had both the Saturn status/authority and the Pluto power to decide if he lived or died.

posted December 17, 2020 01:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:

However ... these Saturn and Pluto aspects indicate that you are reminding him (via his subconscious/unconscious mind) of someone - in a past life or/and childhood - who had both the Saturn status/authority and the Pluto power to decide if he lived or died.

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posted December 17, 2020 10:39 PM            

The potential problem posed by the opposition here is that (subconsciously) his Saturn will feel threatened because your Leo self-expression, values (or way of interacting with others) and drive reminds him of someone - from childhood or/and a past life - that made him feel inadequate in those areas.

2. His Saturn square your Moon.

And here, your Moon is very comfortable in the warm/approachable Earth-Mother sign of Taurus whilst his Saturn is very much at-home in its own Aquarius sign of aloofness. ... So, chalk-or-cheese in your respective abilities to express emotions generally - and neither particularly comfortable with being judged by (8th house) others for expressing them.

Again though, the potential problem in the relationship is that your emotional expressiveness is a painful (but subconscious) reminder of someone from his past that made him feel inadequate in that area.

However, these Saturn issues will emerge over time, rather than from the outset or during the 'honeymoon/rose-coloured-spectacles' period of the relationship. ... And, during that early period of getting-to-know-each-other, he is likely to find those qualities in you attractive/admirable.

Then ... as time goes by, and the two of you enter the relationship period when "familiarity breeds contempt" ... IF his subconscious Saturn issues begin to surface, he will start (subtly, or/and not subtly) to criticise these qualities in you which he formerly admired ... in the (subconscious) hope that this will stop you from displaying them, and (thus) stop him from being uncomfortable when you do so.

Hence, IF these Saturn issues actually do manifest at some point in this relationship ... will you be able to help him to recognise and overcome them (best outcome); will he undermine your self-confidence (worst outcome) or will the relationship end due to irreconcilable differences (usual outcome, if the issue is not consciously addressed)?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

3. His Pluto square your Sun-Venus-Mars.
4. His Pluto opposite your Moon.

The potential problems in the relationship are the same with his Pluto as they are with his Saturn ... and clearly depicted by the Synastry Grand Square created by your Sun-Moon and his Saturn-Pluto natal squares.

But, IF the issues manifest, he will attempt to change you via Pluto manipulation rather than Saturn criticism.

For example ... let's say he has a 20 years old sister who looks great in hot pants, while you look best in Bermuda shorts. He'll stop your Leo Venus ability to physically attract others by (irresistibly) persuading you to wear hot pants "because they look even better on you than on his 13-years-younger sister".

posted December 18, 2020 11:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MonteCristo:
Aside from these potential negatives, how strong is this bond? We are both quite emotionally mature, so I think we are able to handle whatever comes our way, regarding what you’ve mentioned. However, I think he doesn’t believe how much I like him, and it makes him retreat. Does our synastry—or composite—show a bond that goes above these difficulties? Or is it more of a fragile relationship? I thought having his Pluto touch all of my personal planets, as well as his Saturn doing the same, made the relationship inseparable in the long term.

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Yes ... There are long-term positive aspects in this relationship :-

1. Your Saturn sextile his Venus.
2. Your Neptune sextile his Sun.
3. Your Pluto sextile his Chiron.
4. Your Chiron trine his Jupiter.
5. NN trine NN.

And these are all binding aspects which will combine to form a strong (and positive) bond between the two of you.

Moreover ... the negative Saturn and Pluto aspects will provide an even stronger bond than the positives. However, whether that bond is positive or negative will depend upon how the two of you handle them. ... If the best case scenario is achieved, the bond will be extremely positive : worst case scenario will produce a negative bond and a breakdown of the relationship will create negative memories/psychological scars that will remain with each of you for the rest of your lives.

posted December 19, 2020 10:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
Yes ... There are long-term positive aspects in this relationship :-

1. Your Saturn sextile his Venus.
2. Your Neptune sextile his Sun.
3. Your Pluto sextile his Chiron.
4. Your Chiron trine his Jupiter.
5. NN trine NN.

And these are all binding aspects which will combine to form a strong (and positive) bond between the two of you.

Moreover ... the negative Saturn and Pluto aspects [b]will provide an even stronger bond than the positives. However, whether that bond is positive or negative will depend upon how the two of you handle them. ... If the best case scenario is achieved, the bond will be extremely positive : worst case scenario will produce a negative bond and a breakdown of the relationship will create negative memories/psychological scars that will remain with each of you for the rest of your lives.

However, the combined synastry/"big picture" is that of a potentially very healthy and long-lasting relationship ... if the two of you can indeed make those (potentially negative) Saturn+Pluto aspects into positive strengths/unbreakable-psychological-bonds. [/B]

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posted December 19, 2020 03:01 PM            

So ... does he really have the maturity to achieve a best case scenario for this relationship's negative Saturn and Pluto aspects?

posted December 19, 2020 06:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
Can you not see how your Venus ability to have many friends might be making his Saturn uncomfortable ... and how his "choose them, lose me" reaction is his Saturn (or Pluto) attempting to change you?

So ... does he really have the maturity to achieve a best case scenario for this relationship's negative Saturn and Pluto aspects?

Wait a while longer before committing yourself to a life changing move to be with him. ... Time will bring clarity.

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posted December 20, 2020 03:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MonteCristo:
Yes, I can see it. I don’t mind his Plutonian energy, I actually like it. But I just hope that he can see past this hiccup. I mean, I see it as a hiccup, he sees it as he doesn’t know why he lost feelings. But I know it’s because he felt such scorn towards me, and overthinking made him lose those feelings. He feels that I’ve so consistently been inconsistent with him, that this was the last straw, that I’d always be like this. I’m going to try to explain where I was coming from...I just hope that he is able to see what I was feeling, and to reverse his decision of shutting off. I wonder if he is able to do that.

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Try to get him to explore "where HE was coming from". ... On THIS particular issue "you are ok, but he is not ok" - and the best case scenario cannot be achieved unless he explores, recognises and confronts/deals with the past event(s) that are at the root of his adult insecurity.

Currently though, his Saturn/Pluto seems to have persuaded you to accept responsibility for his feelings/insecurity.

posted December 20, 2020 03:49 AM            

quote:

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I see it as a hiccup, he sees it as he doesn’t know why he lost feelings.

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posted December 20, 2020 11:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MonteCristo:
Graham, I see where you are coming from, but it isn’t that way at all. He’s very outgoing, he’s not controlling—although signs in his chart would point to him being so. I do have a tendency of letting my pride and insecurity color my actions in such a way that I alienate those whom I care about. I think he makes me more in tune with the parts of myself that I’m insecure about—and helps me become more confident, helps me to realize that I shouldn’t be a shy kitten, but a roaring lion. “What’s there to be afraid of?” Is the energy that he gives to me.
I just wonder if the chart has any indication of whether this will be a significant and long term relationship, able to weather any storms such as this. Even in the composite.
He has always thought we were meant to be, even when I pushed him away for years. He waited patiently for me. And I think this last weekend was almost the last straw for him. And I hope he is able to see past it.

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Ok, MC ... I hear you, and acknowledge (again) that the astrology indicates a potentially significant and long term relationship ... if the two of you recognise, confront and correctly handle the Saturn+Pluto squares and oppositions of the synastry chart.

posted December 20, 2020 05:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
Ok, MC ... I hear you, and acknowledge (again) that the astrology indicates a potentially significant and long term relationship ... [b]if the two of you recognise, confront and correctly handle the Saturn+Pluto squares and oppositions of the synastry chart.

[/B]

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posted December 21, 2020 12:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MonteCristo:
Thanks, Graham, and thank you for your continuous insight, it’s always very helpful. I am going to send him a letter... I think through everything he just finally came to believe that I didn’t care about him much, and so he has shut off. Are Scorpios incapable of reversing their decisions? Anyway, I’m going to try to explain, and try to elucidate to him why he’s feeling the way he is. Perhaps he will realize what triggered it... I hope sooner rather than later. Wish me luck.

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Astrologically ... his progressed Venus is now in possessive/controlling Scorpio and natal 4th house (of psychological foundations) - making a sextile to natal Uranus+Neptune in determined Capricorn and natal 6th house of critical analysis, which transit Neptune is activating from poor-me Pisces in his natal 9th house of personal growth.

Hence ... (I wonder if) he's unconsciously steered you, and his conscious self/sun, into believing that "you didn't care about him that much" - and shutting off is a manipulative transit-Pluto-sextile-natal-Pluto mechanism for making you commit to the relationship.

So ... bear in mind that transit Neptune has created this event as an opportunity for him to achieve some 9th house personal growth/self-understanding.

posted December 21, 2020 01:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
Astrologically ... his progressed Venus is now in possessive/controlling Scorpio and natal 4th house (of psychological foundations) - making a sextile to natal Uranus+Neptune in determined Capricorn and natal 6th house of critical analysis, which transit Neptune is activating from poor-me Pisces in his natal 9th house of personal growth.

Hence ... (I wonder if) he's unconsciously steered you, and his conscious self/sun, into [b]believing that "you didn't care about him that much" - and shutting off is a manipulative transit-Pluto-sextile-natal-Pluto mechanism for making you commit to the relationship.

So ... bear in mind that transit Neptune has created this event as an opportunity for him to achieve some 9th house personal growth/self-understanding.

[/B]

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I thought that myself at first... but would he really risk losing me after pursuing me for YEARS, just to see if I’d commit? I already was committed, although I’m sure he had his doubts as to how I felt because I don’t show my feelings until later on. I mean, this guy totally just did a 180!

posted December 21, 2020 03:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MonteCristo:
I thought that myself at first... but would he really risk losing me after pursuing me for YEARS, just to see if I’d commit? I already was committed, although I’m sure he had his doubts as to how I felt because I don’t show my feelings until later on. I mean, this guy totally just did a 180!

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