posted July 07, 2021 08:27 AM            

“COMPOSITE PLUTO IN SCORPIO

In my counseling practice, which has spanned over twenty years, and over fifteen thousand clients, roughly forty percent of all the intimate relationships that I have worked with have had composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio. I feel that this is the most difficult position for composite Pluto, because the couple who has it is dealing with issues and dynamics together at the actual Soul level, not the personality or toward one another, somewhat like the moth being attracted to the proverbial flame. Within the intensity of the attraction, most couples also have a fear or repulsion that is experienced in a primarily subconscious way. This fear or repulsion is typically overridden by the attraction. It is not given too much attention, nor is it acted on in most cases in the beginning of the relationship. There are many reasons for this simultaneous attraction and repulsion, just as there are many reasons why, in most cases, the couple responds to the magnetic attraction leading toward their relationship instead of responding to the subconscious fear or repulsion which would prevent the relationship from occurring. Let us examine this deeply.

The Eighth House, Scorpio, and Pluto correlate to the nature of our unconscious desire nature, and the reasons for those desires in evolutionary, karmic, and psychological terms. The nature of desires determines the nature of our motivations, intentions, and the psychology of our consciousness. In combination, these dynamics create a necessary limitation within our consciousness of what is possible to actualize relative to the totality of life, and what is not. Thus, we are limited to the specific life focus determined by the nature of our desires as we progress from life to life.

Since Pluto, Scorpio, and the Eighth House also correlate to the natural law of evolution, the desire to grow beyond limitations, we are all attracted to people, circumstances, and symbols of power that represent something that we are not. This type of attraction serves to make us aware of the nature of our limitations. Thus, the nature of such attractions is reflected in our desire to grow, evolve, and metamorphose beyond our limitations. To do so, we must become aware of the causes for those limitations. This awareness occurs through forming relationships to that which symbolizes what we feel we need in order to grow. This is the common motivation within most people that causes the attraction to occur to this person as opposed to that person. By forming a relationship to that which we are not, an natural Plutonian osmosis occurs in which we become that which we have formed a relationship to, causing evolution and growth to occur. The fundamental problem in this archetypal dynamic is that most of us are not consciously aware of why we do what we do. The sources of our desires, motivations, and intentions are primarily unconscious. This is why so many such attractions become compulsive. It is also why the karma of using and being used by others can occur between people. This, in turn, creates violations of trust, betrayal, abandonment, and loss. This is why sexual karma can be produced: the deepest instinct in people, reflected in our need to secure that which we feel we need, is to sexualize it; thus, using sex as a vehicle to possess what we desire.

Couples who have composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio have had a mutual desire to possess and become what each symbolizes to the other. Each one has reflected capacities, qualities, abilities, and resources that the other has desired to develop. This mutual desire has caused them to penetrate to the depth of each other's Soul. This desire induces the wish to merge the Souls together, and by merging to become one Soul—a Soul larger, more powerful, and freer from limitations than the individual Souls alone.

The mutual desire to merge has created its own unique problems over many lifetimes. One of the deepest problems is linked with fear emanating from their individual egos. The ego structure within the personality or subjective consciousness that the Soul creates in each İife becomes intoxicated with its own life. The ego becomes used to feeling separate from anything that it is not-separate, and thus individual. Therefore, the desire to merge at a Soul level creates the fear in each partner that they are being pulled into a dark inner abyss through one another—that the sense of individuality at an ego level will be extinguished. This in turn has created a simultaneous attraction and repulsion –attraction at the Soul level because of the unconscious desire to merge the Souls, and repulsion at an ego level because of the fear of losing distinct individual identity.

This fundamental archetype within the composite Scorpio Pluto has created and caused its own karma between the two people. The intention to merge the Souls has created a condition within their combined consciousness wherein they have necessarily desired to penetrate to the very depths of one another—each other's Soul. Penetrating to the depths of one another has caused a condition wherein everything that one another is must become exposed to the light of day: psychological dynamics and complexes, emotional dynamics and the reasons for those dynamics, the causes of insecurity, the nature of one another's motivation and intentions as symbolized and created by their desire nature, and so on. As this occurs, the egocentric structures within each of them has become afraid at regular intervals throughout their evolutionary journey with one another. The nature of this fear is based in the elimination of individual identity, and the fear of becoming too exposed; most of us are more comfortable just being what we are without the intensity and scrutiny of honest psychoanalytic self-examination of a perpetual nature. For Souls to merge, they must necessarily confront and eliminate all existing impurities. Thus, the intense desire to penetrate to the depths of each other's Souls in order to merge requires the ongoing mutual exposure of one another's inner dynamics so that the impurities in each can surface. It is exactly this ongoing desire to penetrate to the depths of one another that induces the fear at an egocentric levelthe fear of exposure, and the fear of losing egocentric identity. As a result, couples who have the composite Scorpio Pluto have typically experienced separation or termination of their relationship for these reasons. Karma is created when one or the other leaves the relationship when one or the other does not desire this to occur: violation of trust is the specific cause for the karma in this situation. When one or the other, or both, has had the experience of having their trust violated, this in turn will create the feeling of being used or manipulated relative to "getting" something that one or the other, or both, wanted from each other. Thus, the karma of being manipulated and used by one another is a common dynamic and karma that exists with a couple who has composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio.

Because of the desires to merge the Souls, every other dynamic within their total beingness together will become intensified, individually and together. Couples who have composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio are the most intense of relationships as a result. The desire to merge necessarily produces a deep, permeating psychological way of relating to one another. Each will have a desire to understand the psychological dynamics of one another–the nature of each other's psychological and emotional needs, their sexual desires and needs and for what reasons, to focus on all existing emotional, sexual, or psychological wounds with the intention of identifying the causes of such wounds, to heal those wounds, and a desire to penetrate to the depths of one another through the intensity of their sexuality. The intensity of the sexual energy together will also have the effect of causing all that is unresolved between them from this and other lifetimes to surface, as well as that which is unresolved within each individual to also surface.

These archetypal manifestations occur for another reason, too. Because it is very common for a couple who has a composite Scorpio Pluto to have experienced separations from one another wherein one or both has felt betrayed in some way, each will have a need to "test" the other; to make sure about where the other is "coming from". Each will have a unconscious desire or need to make the other "prove" their love, motives, or intentions for wanting to be together with one another. Thus, the probing and penetrating of each other's inner being becomes the result of this desire and need to "make sure." Because each partner will be inherently insecure from within themselves, and because there will be an unconscious insecurity linked with one another based on previous-life separations, the all too common reaction to these insecurities is for the couple to be together to much excessive proximity wherein proximity equals security because each always has an eye on the other.

Excessive proximity can become its own cause of emotional, psychological, and sexual distortions of all kinds. It can become a causal factor in loss of perspective on the relationship, and one another as individuals, and can add to the fear of becoming possessed or swallowed up by one another and the relationship enmeshment in the worst form. This, in turn, can become a causal factor in which one or the other, or both, suddenly asserts an egocentric will manifesting as either total or partial withdrawal from the other within the context of being proximate, or seeking out external activities or environments in which the other is not included; or both. Commonly, these external activities or environments, and the experiences therein, are secretive in nature. This has and can occur for three reasons. Either one or the other is unconsciously trying to undermine or sabotage the relationship relative to the fear of being swallowed up by it, or one or the other is trying to assert his or her egocentric will'to do whatever they please without restraint or restriction, or one or the other is being motivated by a vindictive desire to "get back" or even with the other for some wound that has been created by the other. Thus, a common karma that couples have with composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio is a karma of secrets—a karma a secrets thus causes a karma of dishonesty.

Because each can feel that the other has been dishonest, and because each will have feelings of being used, manipulated, betrayed, and abandoned by the other for all the above reasons, a couple with composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio commonly has deep unresolved anger or rage at one another. This combined with a deep attraction or love creates a love/hate dynamic, or the attraction/repulsion dynamics. Relative to unresolved anger or rage, the desire to hurt one another can be quite strong. It will operate primarily at an unconscious level in the beginning of their connection, but can become more conscious as time goes on. This typically manifests as the thought to "get even" in some way. It can also manifest as desiring to dominate or control by force of will. This can then create a power struggle in the relationship, centered on issues such as whose will dominates, whose needs are most important, who will the relationship revolve around. This can manifest as each attempting to dominate the other's wil i ways, or as one of them dominating in this way while the other becomes more or less passive. When this is the case, the one who becomes passive will typically attempt to assert his or her will through seeking out external activities, environments, or other people to become involved with that the other knows nothing about.

The power struggle between the two can have several behavioral applications. One of the most common applications is one wherein an individual presents oneself to the other as someone who is totally aware of what the other's issues and problems are. In essence, they set themselves up as a de facto therapist or counselor to the other. When this is the operative dynamic, the one playing out the role of the therapist will have the capacity to identify the weakest emotional dynamics in the other. Focusing on those dynamics keeps the other partner dependent. Thus, the counselor unconsciously is trying to guarantee his or her need for security and permanency through the role. The one who is dependent is trying to guarantee his or her need for security by creating a de facto parent/child dynamic—"take care of me" is the unconscious voice. The power struggle occurs when the dependent one attempts to either break free from the influence of the counselor, or attempts to actually heal whatever the wounds are. The counselor will resist this since their role is dependent on the dependent one maintaining those wounds. In other cases, each of them wil alternate back and forth between the roles of counselor and counselee. Each is invested in maintaining this orientation because of the need for security and power. Another form that this dynamic can create is one wherein the relationship is reduced to sexual addiction. In this application, the two Souls have a great magnetic attraction to one another without really knowing why. Relative to the desire to merge which is ever-present in the archetype of composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio, the only way for this to occur is through sexual addiction to one another. Because there is no real basis of mental communication, they do not really know why they are attracted to one another. Because of this, the only way to penetrate each other, in order to know each other, is through sex.

When this is the operative dynamic, it will lead into a very intense sexual relationship that becomes addictive. Relative to power and will issues, one partner may attempt to totally sexually possess and "own" the other-to create a condition of sexual slavery in which the submissive partner is expected to be available for sex whenever the other partner desires it. This will typically occur when the "slave" person is highly insecure, and extremely needy of emotional nurturing very active and intense as a result of problems in their childhood. Thus, they learn in this type of relationship that these needs can be met as long as they make themselves available in this way. Such a person's emotional nature has been wounded and suppressed in childhood, but they learn that the intensity produced through sexual union unlocks those buried emotions, and they feel alive because of it. Thus, they submit and become addicted to the sexual dynamic. Sex on demand is now the operative dynamic in which the "slave" is expected to give in to any of the sexual desires of the partner. Because of the need to dominate through will in order to feel secure, the dominating one will attempt to possess the other one in every possible way, including anal penetration. The dominating one will be typically attracted to "sexual taboos." In other cases, each of them will alternate between these roles. Because the sexual dynamic is never enough to sustain any couple that desires to be together for a long time, this orientation always leads to termination of the relationship. The termination is based on the sense of lack, which can also motivate one or the other to seek out other people to become involved with. When this occurs, termination of the relationship will soon occur.

In the Consensus state, this placement will correlate to a couple who have mutual desires to confront the existing nature of the limitations that have brought them together in life after life. The common problem is based in traditional gender assignment issues wherein the man has attempted to have power over the woman. The woman in this case has felt deep inner power within her, yet this power has been crushed by the dominating will of the man. This has caused great confrontations to occur as the woman has attempted to assert her own will either directly to him, or to unconsciously work against him through covert activities of one kind or another. The confrontations have produced very hurtful and wounding words that are not resolved. These cumulative wounds become linked with anger and rage, and the need to hurt one another in order to "get back." After the heat of the battle there are cycles of calm in which they both attempt to emotionally renew themselves through gentle words of atonement and deep love-making. Obviously, the love/hate dynamic is very active. The man has typically been unfaithful to the woman in many of these lives, and the woman could have been just as unfaithful relative to getting emotional needs met which the husband was incapable of fulfilling. Jealousy becomes a constant problem, and the resulting unconscious memories can cause the projection of these fears in each subsequent life.

They will have a mutual desire to obtain material power from the existing society that they live within. Together they can be very clever, or even underhanded or dishonest in designing ideas or schemes to accomplish this goal. When this has been the case in other lifetimes, it can create a karmic condition in which the desired material security is denied, or it can lead to a great loss of the existing material resources at some point through larger forces or powers that they cannot control. This mutual desire structure can also create a condition in which they become isolated from one another in every way except through the commonality of this shared desire. They will be highly secretive regarding the inner workings and goings-on of their relationship to all others. Highly suspicious, they will create a united front that is difficult to penetrate. Unable to truly trust one another, they find it difficult to trust anyone else.

Sexually, the power problems of past lifetimes can make it very difficult for either of them to become too vulnerable with each other. There is an inner buffer that does not allow for a penetration of the heart or Soul. Yet, because they both desire to be touched or penetrated in this way, their sexual relations can be very physically intense. Sex as power can also be the dynamic, as well as no sex at all—this energy becomes entirely focused on the material goals. In other cases, the sexual dynamic may be the only way that they can truly “merge the Souls"; yet after the sexual event, they both resume their emotionally distant stance toward one another. In the Individuated state, this placement will correlate to a couple who have come together in many lifetimes in order to empower one another.

The basis of the initial attraction in every life has typically been a shared commonality of wounds acquired from other people and circumstances. Both will symbolize to the other some great magnetic power of an undefined nature. Attraction to the power within each creates a hypnotic effect that mesmerizes both of them. The attraction becomes compulsive because of this. As the relationship unfolds in each life, the need to penetrate to each other's Soul begins to uncover the wounds that each has created in the other. As this occurs, unresolved anger begins to manifest between them. This results in a duality of experience together. On the one hand, they experience cycles of incredible connectedness wherein intense emotional communion with one another occurs. In this communion, each lets down their emotional guard, and, in so doing, each shares the depths of the other. Each can be or seem like a true emotional healing balm to the other. Each can feel extremely validated by the other, and each can feel that the other is truly "there" for them. Deep emotional, psychological, and "Soul" work can be accomplished as they confront the nature of their wounds, and truly attempt to heal those wounds together. This can lead them into exploring many knowledge systems together such as astrology, psychology, the occult, the nature of the human condition from many different perspectives, and different ways of being sexual together. On the other hand, the surfacing of wounds that they have inflicted on each other can produce cycles of vindictiveness in which both attempt to get back at one another in various ways. In the worst of cases, this can be truly ugly and sadistic.

Sexually, each will have desires to merge with the other. Both will have attractions to exploring sexuality that go beyond the existing sexual conventions of the society that they are in. Attractions to sexual “taboos" will be active, and an inner power within their relationship will occur by "snubbing their nose" at those conventions. Both wil desire an intensity of sexual sensation together which allows the intensity of their emotions to be experienced. The sexual dynamic is typically compulsive, yet can also be used as a way of controlling and manipulating the relationship. Sexual and emotional dishonesty has typically occurred wherein both have had “secret" affairs with others. The karma of sexual dishonesty linked with emotional dishonesty consequently exists. Using each other as sexual objects to work out various sexual desires that exist within each individual is also common, although neither one of them is really conscious of this dynamic. Fulfilling each other's desires in this way creates the illusion of love. Because of the underlying desire to merge their Souls, the sexual energy is intense and permeating. It serves both of their needs for psychological, emotional, and Soul renewal. This is why the hurt is overwhelming when emotional/sexual infidelity occurs. Neither can really forgive the other when this occurs, even though they may attempt to on a mental level. But once trust has been violated with the composite Scorpio Pluto couple, it is almost impossible to recover.

In the Spiritual state, this placement will correlate to a couple who has had mutual desires to allow the power of God to infuse the very essence of their relationship. Over many lifetimes, such a couple has experienced many different forms of spirituality emanating from many different cultures. They have a combined desire and need for the "proof" of God. As such, they have oriented to many different practices and methods that allowed for this proof to occur from within. Using a common spiritual “baseline" as the foundation of the relationship created a necessary strength that allowed both of them to experience the progressive surfacing of the wounds of lifetimes—wounds from many sources, including the wounds that they created for one another. This will be a couple who has traveled a very long evolutionary and karmic journey together, and who have more or less succeeded in staying together despite the temptation to separate in various other lifetimes because of the problems encountered. The desire to merge their Souls has sustained them. The love of their Souls toward one another has been more strong than the potential undermining effect of the various wounds. They have learned to empower each other as a result, and they have learned that the ultimate security for the relationship is found in their mutual commitment to God. As a result, they can be a spiritual powerhouse together. Many other people or couples will be attracted to them for their counsel, and because they symbolize what many other couples desire to become. They will manifest a spellbinding, magnetic effect on other people. Even through they will feel drawn to give to others as necessary, they will still be very secretive and protective of the inner nature of their relationship. Within their relationship, most of the time they will be silent together. They have developed a high degree of telepathic awareness of one another. They will speak only as necessary. Each will feel comfortable with the silence of the other. When issues come up between them, they will focus on them intently, and move through them quickly.

Sexually, they will focus of the sacredness of Tantra, or methods like it. These methods will be used to penetrate each other's Soul, and the divinity within each. Thus, they will penetrate to the Ultimate Divinity together in this way. The intensity of sensation produced in the body will be used to penetrate and remove all blockages within consciousness that prevent experiencing the inner divinity. Tantric practice of this kind will be just as important as meditational or other yogic practices. From this baseline, most of these couples will engage in other ways of being sexual as they both desire a progressive elimination of all other sexual desires so that a rapid evolution of the Soul can occur. They have already realized that sexual desire is one of the main binding forces that keeps the Soul engaged in realities like that of Earth. The attitude that this perspective creates thus allows the desires to be worked out because of the attitude that this perspective creates.

POLARITY POINT IN TAURUS

The archetypal themes that correlate to the next evolutionary step for the couple with composite Pluto in Scorpio is to realize that each has been mutually responsible for what has occurred with the relationship, whether past and present. It then becomes essential that each forgive the other for whatever has occurred. This understanding is best realized when both can understand that they have come together to bring to the surface the impurities and limitations in each, and then to realize that even though there may have been great hurt experienced through one another, that there still is an abiding love that emanates from their Souls. Orienting to this love will allow the wounds to be healed.

Within this, it is essential that each learn how to allow the other to identify and supply their own needs. This will lead to self-reliance, which allows for true self-empowerment. In this way, the relationship becomes ever more powerful and metamorphic for each. Each will learn the difference between wanting to be together simply because they want to be, versus the addictive compulsion to be together because of what each symbolically represents to the other the capacities, abilities, resources, etc., that each wants from the other relative to their perceived lacks. Once this occurs, they have eliminated together the karma of use, manipulation, and the acts of betrayal that follow once the "use" of the relationship has been outworn. Thus, they must learn to not be afraid when each of them desires to have independent experiences, and to subsequently learn a new way of being secure together. Above all else, they must learn to be totally honest with each other in every way so that the karma of secrets is eliminated. Even when honesty creates an “ugly" situation, it will be the right situation.

posted July 09, 2021 01:54 AM            

Agree with the intensity of attraction and fear (no repulsion though). Fear because it feels like you’ll be consumed and controlled and by the other emotionally. It is very soul level.

posted July 09, 2021 03:25 AM            

Lack of “repulsion” is probably because it’s not placed in Scorpio sign. My generation is fixated with what’s “toxic” or not—to a fault. Polyamory and BDSM are big topics in my generation, playing with (exploring) possession and consent, one form of it or another. Some would say that BDSM is a gateway to Tantra - the meditative (surrender, dissociation from pain) factor. The tantric sex part of this excerpt stood out to me - I’m either celibate or practicing tantra (energy) with a partner, there’s no in-between. Sex for lust’s sake just seems sporty, like weight training at a gym. I

posted July 09, 2021 05:59 AM            

The author was a staunch believer in reincarnation, and formulated his life’s research of Pluto (“evolutionary astrology”) based on this principle. The book is also 370 pages long–mostly chart analysis of both clients and historical examples. Reading might answer your question on “how”. Find it on Scribd

worth a read solely on his merit as a professional research-driven astrologer. Pluto I and Pluto II

Personally, I prefer vedic astrology in practice, devoid of outer planets, though commend transneptunian studies for further elaborating the same [reincarnation, re-generation] factor, from a western, modern POV. It’s Pluto (life/death) after all

posted July 09, 2021 06:47 AM            

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Originally posted by vansio:
Oh man.. you’ll have to start a separate thread to ask and unpack such a theological question. You might as well have asked “Why am I here with any of you?” 😸

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You made me smile!))

Thank you for the link.

posted July 10, 2021 01:07 AM            

Your generation is into BDSM?? Hmm, I’ll ask my younger cousins. 😅

posted July 10, 2021 04:28 AM            

Advocation for LBTQA+ — the Pluto in Scorpio generation

In theory it makes sense to use reference place method. These days I’m trying to figure out which chart system to use in composite. I’m leaning more towards whole-sign or equal-based because the composite houses drawn in are entirely hypothetical—the midpoint of house-degrees between the natal charts with their own birthplaces. It’s a mess. if we didn’t have beefy computers doing the hypothetical composite math for us we wouldn’t be reading this far, beyond the nature of a zodiac, which raises questions for me on legitimacy. A midpoint between planets are easy to find—this placement is fixed, no “system” could change it. A midpoint between my Canadian-born 2nd House degree and his German-born 2nd House degree - Placidius, Koch, Regiomantus - that’s a trip. We know that our birth proximity to the earth’s equator factors into calculating these natal house degrees... each system is only changing the endresult of it’s own formula - what these names represent, each different math for the location. Which dude you think is most mathematically correct? lol

Midpoints (composite) are sign-based (zodiac degree) calculations to begin with.

A general composite is not created based on a true time of day for these “houses” to be legitimized without reference. Technically, rising sign shows us the horizon of a location on earth—planets above or below the horizon. So, for the sake of a chart being “born”, on earth, there’s a horizon (land), the Ascendent, and that would be further delineated by reference place, and from there, a composite’s houses (the representation of sky) might then be justifiable.

What’s the indecisive placement for you? In my case, what makes me go back and forth is not being sure from where the “planet” (combined planet) is expressing itself from. To know the midpoint of two planets is in a certain sign, definitely, but trying to tweak it’s location...? With composite, with relationships, we want to see what we want to see. I struggle with the choice, and the indecision itself speaks for how incompetent drawing composite houses probably is. Or how incompetent I personally feel as a composite house reader-to not know the “truth” so to speak. Changing an entire chart because of an equation (the house system) rather than rely on geometry (sign-aspect) should not be so easy.

Signs and the Ptolemaic aspects caused by these signs (midpoint placement) are more reliable than houses, fixed (drawn from) the position in the galaxy itself—why I’ve have a hard time depending on hypothetical composite houses and opt for wholesign as “houses” system, think that’s it for me. I use the kiss method—Keep It Simple, Sweetie.

The only lines that “matter” (have incarnating purpose) are natal angles, which still show up as points (to receive aspects) on a whole sign chart anyhow. In the aspect table, if a midpoint conjunction isn’t enough.

Reference place method might be the solution to this anomaly, for those who don’t want to use whole sign. 🤷🏽‍♀️ I really don’t know... all of this just reminds me to just stick to the synastry. use composites sparingly.

Tbh as far as I can tell todd doesn’t read the houses in composite shared with him. He’s only ever reading the aspects between composite signs, the degrees of the zodiac—harmonics.

Signs = Midpoint = Composite

I’ll look at what this Pluto book says about composite house system and get back to you with a quote. It’s nice to read each professionals’ discretion.

Steven Forester’s SkyMates2 book says use Reference Place Method for Composite Charts

posted July 10, 2021 08:30 AM            

Your explanation on ref place method makes sense. My guy is a foreigner who has been living in my home country for the past 2 decades so I thought composite ref place method might make more sense, however, almost all the astrologers I spoke to said they would still stick to midpoint.

Ref place method changes our ASC-DSC axis and planetary aspects to these angles. Composite rising in Aquarius (ref place) seems to describe us more than Pisces rising. We had a cNeptune square ASC in midpoint but in ref place chart it became a quintile. cJuno is in the 6H in midpoint but in ref place it’s closely conjunct DSC. I tried to read up this aspect but didn’t find much info other than one website that says “meant to be”. This describes our relationship or our feelings?

posted August 22, 2021 01:43 AM            

I did a quick check and for everyone I have composite Pluto in Scorpio with. The ones in the composite 5th house I have a stronger connection with and have really plagued me in the past, but 136 (as I shall call him) with our composite Pluto in Scorpio in the 8th - that knocks them all out of the park. The “simultaneous attraction and repulsion” is particularly strong - I thought he was just triggering my disorganized attachment style, but what you shared from Green makes more sense. This made my jaw drop with its simple yet undeniable truth:

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This in turn has created a simultaneous attraction and repulsion –attraction at the Soul level because of the unconscious desire to merge the Souls, and repulsion at an ego level because of the fear of losing distinct individual identity.

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I feel I completely understand my situation now, and it is so true. Thank you!! I have long struggled with my ego versus my Self/Soul (don’t we all!), and it is definitely the ego that clings yet runs away from him screaming. My Soul is more at peace with everything.

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The nature of this fear is based in the elimination of individual identity, and the fear of becoming too exposed; most of us are more comfortable just being what we are without the intensity and scrutiny of honest psychoanalytic self-examination of a perpetual nature.

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This is my fear exactly. I have a tremendous feeling of being exposed around him, and that feeling would explain his behavior towards me also. Obviously neither of us is willing.

As Green described it, it is as I suspected… a clue to heal oneself, become whole, and integrate those missing aspects of oneself - not necessarily to be with the person. “Couples who have composite Pluto in the Eighth House or Scorpio have had a mutual desire to possess and become what each symbolizes to the other. Each one has reflected capacities, qualities, abilities, and resources that the other has desired to develop.” I would rather do this on my own! I don’t want to need someone else in order to do this… I want to be everything for myself!

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Each will have a desire to understand the psychological dynamics of one another–the nature of each other's psychological and emotional needs, their sexual desires and needs and for what reasons, to focus on all existing emotional, sexual, or psychological wounds with the intention of identifying the causes of such wounds, to heal those wounds, and a desire to penetrate to the depths of one another through the intensity of their sexuality.

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THIS then creates that situation wherein “an individual presents oneself to the other as someone who is totally aware of what the other's issues and problems are. In essence, they set themselves up as a de facto therapist or counselor to the other… In other cases, each of them wil alternate back and forth between the roles of counselor and counselee.” In my case, we both pretty quickly tried to play counselor to one another, but despite my urge to do so I neither counseled/asked him as much as I could, nor did I divulge what he wished. (Does that mean I’m winning? lol)

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Deep emotional, psychological, and "Soul" work can be accomplished as they confront the nature of their wounds, and truly attempt to heal those wounds together… On the other hand, the surfacing of wounds that they have inflicted on each other can produce cycles of vindictiveness in which both attempt to get back at one another in various ways. In the worst of cases, this can be truly ugly and sadistic.

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This is the key question because I am confused on this point… if Pluto in Scorpio/8th house indicates that the Souls WANT to merge, does that mean doing so is a GOOD thing, ie moves both Souls toward healing and wholeness and evolution? Wouldn’t it just be more of the same wounding?

In other words, when is enough enough for these two Souls? Is it something they will act out over and over in lifetime after lifetime, or is it possible to cut the cord (even if further healing is needed)? Can that healing be done only through one another, or can they do it without each other? Because as Green writes, “There is an inner buffer that does not allow for a penetration of the heart or Soul.”

Also, what does he mean by “in the Consensus state”, “in the Individuated state”, and “in the Spiritual state”? I am looking at Pluto II that you linked, but don’t see part 1. I understand what you said, that “the Sexuality caused or created between the couple itself, without a doubt, should confirm exactly which sign or state the union is functioning.” Does that mean the relationship has to be sexual in order to know which state you’re functioning in? What if each person is on a different level?

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In the Spiritual state, this placement will correlate to a couple who has had mutual desires to allow the power of God to infuse the very essence of their relationship. Over many lifetimes, such a couple has experienced many different forms of spirituality emanating from many different cultures. They have a combined desire and need for the "proof" of God. As such, they have oriented to many different practices and methods that allowed for this proof to occur from within. Using a common spiritual “baseline" as the foundation of the relationship created a necessary strength that allowed both of them to experience the progressive surfacing of the wounds of lifetimes—wounds from many sources, including the wounds that they created for one another. This will be a couple who has traveled a very long evolutionary and karmic journey together, and who have more or less succeeded in staying together despite the temptation to separate in various other lifetimes because of the problems encountered. The desire to merge their Souls has sustained them. The love of their Souls toward one another has been more strong than the potential undermining effect of the various wounds. They have learned to empower each other as a result, and they have learned that the ultimate security for the relationship is found in their mutual commitment to God. As a result, they can be a spiritual powerhouse together… Within this [relationship], it is essential that each learn how to allow the other to identify and supply their own needs. This will lead to self-reliance, which allows for true self-empowerment. In this way, the relationship becomes ever more powerful and metamorphic for each.

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So, is this then a “goal” to be aimed for? Is it even avoidable? Is the relationship necessary in order for such evolution to occur?

posted August 27, 2021 05:22 AM            

It is very important to understand that, in accordance with the principle and natural law of evolution, all Souls evolve in ways that are completely unique to them. This is why “cookbook astrology" is totally irrelevant and a disservice to astrology. It is essential to grasp and embrace this principle so that your understanding of the symbolic nature of astrological correlations can reflect the natural law. Thereby, your understanding of each client will be much more precise and will reflect their actual reality, not the reality that you may believe if you are dependent on some astrology book that tells you that Venus in Virgo means such and such, and you think every client who has Venus in Virgo must be like what you have read.

There are four natural evolutionary states, or gates, that all Souls evolve through over great lengths of evolutionary time. Each state has specific psychological archetypes that are intrinsic and unique. Each state conditions the consciousness of the individual. This natural conditioning factor of the four evolutionary states thus determines each individual's orientation to their life experience. In addition, each of the four natural evolutionary states has three levels or stages of development within them that reflect the Soul's evolution through them. The four natural evolutionary conditions for the Soul are as follows:

The Consensus State. This state embodies the majority of all Souls on Earth. Roughly 70% of all people, in all lands, are in this evolutionary condition. The consensus state is a state wherein the individual Soul is utterly defined by the norms, customs, taboos, religion, laws, rights and wrongs, and morality of the consensus society that he or she is born into. There is no ability to stand outside of such a society or reality, or to separate him or herself from it. For example, if the majority of people consider astrology to be bogus, a pseudo-science, then each individual within the consensus state will carry or reflect this opinion. This state reflects the desire to conform in order to feel secure—the safety in numbers syndrome.

In the first stage of this condition, individual Souls will reflect a very rudimentary consciousness that is analogous to the worker bees within a beehive. In the second stage of this condition, the Soul will reflect an emphasized desire for positions of status within their society. As a result, their consciousness progressively evolves because it must become "educated" in the ways that society dictates in order to succeed. In the last stages of this condition, individual Souls can evolve to the station of political leaders, or positions of leadership in a variety of occupations. This is because they have learned how the system works. As a result, this could very well be the origin of the saying "the blind leading the blind." On the other hand, as evolutionary necessity dictates, every once in a while a political leader will emerge that truly reflects a vision that has the effect of fundamentally altering or restructuring the existing system or society so that it to can evolve. Such leaders will be individuals who have begun the process leading to the next evolutionary condition or gate—the individuated state. Typically, as such leaders attempt to implement their ideas or vision, they are met with various degrees of resistance, confrontation (Pluto), and opposition by various factions within society who are invested in maintaining the existing status quo.

The Individuated State. Generally, 20% of Souls will be in this evolutionary condition or state. These are individuals who have evolved beyond the consensus state—to individuate. The first stage of this condition will reflect persons who have begun the process of independent questioning and thinking, who have rebelled against the consensus and the pressure to conform. Uranus, the archetype of rebellion intrinsic to consciousness, is a common denominator in these Souls. These individuals have begun the process of separating themselves from their specific societies to stand outside of them, so to speak. This psychology of detachment allows for an objective awareness of reality in all its relative forms. In this perception of relativity, the individual realizes that there is much more to "reality" than any consensus-based view can offer. This condition thus allows for an expansion in consciousness in which the individual begins the process of understanding the nature of reality in increasingly larger frames of reference, which then begins the process leading to the next stage or evolutionary state. In the individuated state, if the individual was told that astrology was a bogus science, he or she would independently investigate to see whether this was true or not. Classic psychological symptoms of this state are cultural alienation, a feeling of not fitting in to the comfortable ways of living that most people do, psychological and emotional isolation, but also a feeling of undefined freedom to do or become whatever they so desire. Yet in this first stage of development, the individual typically compensates for the inner feeling of being different. This compensation manifests because the inner feeling of being different creates a real feeling of social insecurity-of not knowing where to fit in. Thus, since most of us do not want to feel insecure, the individual at this state compensates by adopting the external appearance of “normalcy." This causes the individual to create an external and circumstantial reality that appears “normal." Yet, because of the inner feeling of being different than the very circumstances that they have created, the individual has now effectively created a living lie the difference between who they are inwardly, versus the circumstantial reality that they have created through the act of compensation.

In the second stage of this evolutionary state, in varying degrees of intensity, there can also be a core feeling of anger at “the system," of a core feeling of pessimism or futility that does not permit the individual to integrate in any way into the consensus based society, and of a desire to destroy either themselves, the system, or both. The second stage of this evolutionary state is perhaps the most difficult of all evolutionary conditions. This is because the dynamic of detachment has been progressively emphasized and developed within the Soul's consciousness. By embracing progressively larger frames of reference in order to understand "reality," the Soul can now perceive the repetitive cycles of human history. It is in this perception of repetitive cycles that the psychology of futility and pessimism are born. It is difficult, because the evolutionary challenge to the individual, in this second stage of development, is to learm how to integrate its individuality, in fact, within the consensus society in order to advance it. A latent fear in such people is that if they do attempt to integrate themselves within the consensus society that their individuality will be lost or absorbed by society in such a way as to lose that individuality. Once the individual realizes that this fear is only a fear—that their individuality cannot be lost, and that the "value is in the effort," then they will evolve to the third and final stage within the individuated state.

At the third stage of this condition, individuals will or can evolve to the point of being the geniuses of their times. They are the inventors and innovators who manifest a new vision, who break new ground, who can transform the very nature of consensus reality. These people are utterly secure within themselves, and they have realized what the great Einstein has pointed out: "When genius interacts with mediocre minds, expect violent opposition." It is in exactly this realization that they will successfully integrate themselves individually and within society. Their consciousness has begun to evolve in such a way as to begin to embrace the transcendent perceptions of Ultimate or Timeless reality. Thus, they are not attached to the outcome of their efforts. They make the effort for the effort's sake, realizing that at some point these efforts will succeed.

The Spiritual State. Roughly 5% or so of all Souls will be in this final state of evolution. Spiritual here does not mean religion! Religion is for those in the consensus state (“We are right, and they are wrong") which becomes the basis of religious wars, ethnic “cleansing," and genocidal holocausts. Spiritual in this context means an absolute openness to the relativity of all spiritual teachings that many spokes lead to the same goal. The nature of these individuals' consciousness will be utterly defined by the teachings of their spiritual system of choice. As a result, they will embrace a universal and transcendent reality that is simultaneously beyond time and space, yet living within it. The consciousness of detachment that began in the individuated state is now fully developed in such a way that the very center of gravity within consciousness will progressively shift from the ego to the Soul. As a result, these individuals progressively experience themselves inwardly in a dual fashion. On the one hand, they experience their specific ego and individual identity; yet also how their ego and individuality are emanations from the Source of all Things—God.

In the first stages of this evolutionary state, the individual is defined through the psychological dynamic of humility. This occurs because the ego is now utterly aware of the universal—of a transcendent reality that seems so large that the ego is but a speck of sand on a very large beach. In this stage, individuals become the spiritual seekers of a devotional nature who seek out various spiritual teachers and teachings through which to define their inner and outer reality. Many will have an active desire to be of service to a larger whole, and will orientate to forms of work that directly benefit other people.

In the second stage of this evolutionary condition, an inherent danger exists for the ego-to think that one is more "enlightened" than one actually is. These are people that become spiritually full of themselves, so to speak, and run the risk of great spiritual delusions of egocentric grandeur. They present themselves as spiritual teachers and healers who somehow have a unique toehold on "“the truth." This situation sets the stage for all the "false prophets" throughout history. In our times, unfortunately, there have been, and are, many such people as the the spiritual yet dangerous clown Rajneesh, Clair Prophet, Ramtha, the reverend Moon from Korea who pretends to be the incarnation of Jesus Christ, etc., etc., etc. Many who purport to be “channelers" reflect this same egocentric delusion. Thus, in this second stage, the ego must be finally destroyed in the sense of just identifying with itself. Consequently, the Soul will actually "program" itself to experience inner and outer circumstances that create absolute humility of the ego so the final stage of this evolutionary condition or gate can be realized. These circumstances will be associated with crises, the very essence of which will reflect the evolutionary necessity of moving beyond the delusion of egocentric spiritual grandeur.

In last stages of this evolutionary state, the Soul evolves progressively from a "true" spiritual teacher to a guru, and finally to the condition that is known as an avatar. Remember this simple fact: truly God-Realized Souls only point the way home, not to themselves!

The Dimly Evolved State. The Souls in this state are either evolving into human consciousness from other forms of consciousness, or are forced into this type of consciousness through karmic causes. In the first case, these Souls will be characterized by a dim sense of self- awareness, a basic sense of occupying time and space. Their gaze will be dull, and they will typically be quite innocent and happy because they know no other reality. Modern terminology that describes this condition are words like mental retardation, cretinism, Down's Syndrome, etc. Evolutionarily, such Souls will evolve through this evolutionary condition by progressively becoming ever more self-aware which will lead them into the consensus state.

The second group will be very conscious from within the limitations of their condition. Their gaze will have a brilliant point of white light emanating from the pupil of the eye. Instead of being innocently happy, these types will typically be angry in various degree, even violent to themselves and others. This is because they know different—they have had a different consciousness and have been forced through karmic causes to be in this highly restricted condition. Roughly 5% of all Souls will be in the dimly evolved state, with around 3% being of the first type, and 2% of the second type.

posted August 27, 2021 05:21 PM            

we have this and now we broke up, pluto in scorpio conjunct tightly with IC.