posted March 27, 2022 12:20 AM            

I have the following in my natal chart:

• Moon conjunct Pluto in Scorpio in the 7th house
  
• Venus conjunct Neptune in Capricorn in the 9th house
  

My love life so far has consisted of the following (I'm 35):

• Woman #1. 2003-05. Intense attraction, the limerence and longing led to a major failure with respect to my personal goals. I didn't make a move on this woman, and in the process of putting them up on a pedestal, missed out on another, amazing woman who did like me. The limerence remained for a long time, leading to me washing my hands off dating completely till 2009.
  
• Woman #2. 2009-11. Intense attraction, revealed my intentions too quickly and got rejected. Spent the next two years in a love-hate configuration, even though it was plainly clear that they were into someone else. Lots and lots of explosive anger, jealousy and manipulation on both sides. Limerence lasted till early-2012. Once again, this resulted in a major failure with respect to my personal goals.
  
• Women #3 and #4. 2012. Intense attraction, but didn't make a move. Limerence didn't last very long.
  
• Woman #5. 2014-16. Knew her from 2000. Intense attraction. Started considering her seriously sometime in 2014, got rejected initially in 2016, but kept communicating. She fell for me later in 2017, but by then, I was a continent away. I eventually realised that she wasn't what I thought her to be, plus, I was crushing on two other women. We mutually ended the relationship rather abruptly, but it had a major impact on her.
  
• Women #6 and #7. 2016-17. Intense attraction, but didn't make a move — one of them had a boyfriend, the other didn't. Limerence ongoing. For the first time, didn't allow longing and sadness to affect my career. Still communicate on occasion.
  

The ages of these women range from upto 7-8 months older to 7 years younger.

Here's the deal: it might be a generational thing, but each of these women has had:

• Her Pluto conjunct my Moon.
  
• Her Neptune conjunct my Venus.
  
• Except for Woman #5, I've never been able to make a move on any of the aforementioned ladies, because I consider myself inadequate and overthink to the point of paralysis.
  

Two more data points that might be relevant:

• I just found out that at the age of 29 (right after my first Saturn return), I relocated to a place with my Saturn AS line running almost directly over it.
  
• I have Mars in the 12th house in Aries, which is also an intercepted house.
  

This has become extremely tiring. I've been in therapy for the last 9 months, and while I'm slowly fixing issues with emotional dysregulation, I was wondering if anyone had any advice from an astrological standpoint on how to overcome these recurring patterns?

posted March 27, 2022 08:46 AM            

I'm sorry you've been through all this. I can really relate as I tend to get into limerence as well. I find it comes from my attachment style and PTSD/CPTSD, but I think astrology can still give some amazing insights. It speaks volumes that you've noticed this pattern.

Generally most astrologers don't count aspects wider than 3 degrees, so I'm not sure how big a player that Venus/Neptune conjunction is - it's a wide ten-degree difference. Same goes for Moon/Pluto, although anecdotally I have noticed people seem to feel it more strongly with the moon in Scorpio.

The 3-degree rule applies to aspects in synastry as well, but I'm highly curious about how tight those conjunctions from the women's generational planets to your personal planets are. I'm actually wondering if there are one or more asteroids at play. Are there no other similarities between them, astrologically? With almost all your planets above the horizon, I wonder if any/many of the women have planets in Taurus through Libra and/or their 1st-6th houses, in which case, you may naturally be seeking to balance out your own energy.

Moon in Scorpio is said to give problems with the mother and/or women generally. The mother is either cold/unavailable or suffocating/controlling (for starters, but do explore the forum here for more information). This would contribute to some challenges with the attachment style, IMO. Ceres conjunct Uranus also indicates an erratic or unstable mother, plus it's squared by Jupiter.

Venus in Capricorn to me indicates an attraction to emotionally unavailable people.

Then Mars is at 29', the anaretic degree.

quote:

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The 29th degree of a sign symbolizes the end of a cycle. In this degree we see the culmination of the development of the energy of the sign and its integration within itself, since, when we take the next step, the rules of the game change. When a planet or an angular house is in the 29th degree, it is as if we have the master ability to use the energies of the sign where they are located but we do not know what they are for, since what we see on the horizon asks us for something different. Therefore, it is logical that this was seen as something “negative”, since it can arouse internal anxiety and generate erratic behaviors when experienced from unconsciousness... Lao Tzu says it beautifully. The 29th degree calls for introspection. As long as the energy of the sign and planet or house remain unconscious, we will be driven by our insecurities and/or dissatisfactions. When we go within, we will find an innate understanding of what we are experiencing. And so we can choose the most appropriate expression of the energy represented by the sign where the planet or astrological house is located. - https://paulalustemberg.com/en/29th-degree-or-anaretic-planets/

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And like you said, it's in the 12th house of all things hidden. Your Mercury, while retrograde, is well-aspected by the feminine planets so it seems you don't have much trouble talking/developing a connection (despite your Chiron in Gemini), so I attribute the lack of self-assertion and self-worth at least in part to the anaretic Mars and Chiron being also in the 2nd house.

IMPORTANT: Your North Node in Aries in the 12th. Have you looked into your North Node much? If not, I would prioritize it. It will transform your understanding of yourself. Yours is entirely about prioritizing self over relationship and enjoying spiritual solitude rather than getting too caught up in the mundane details of life. No wonder pursuit of relationship has hindered career. Your Vertex/Anti-Vertex axis also falls along your nodal axis - the union of karma and fate.

You also have Saturn in the 8th (so do I). This gives a ton of restriction to intimacy.

Also, you have Lilith opposite Neptune. The dark feminine/femme fatale versus the dreamy illusion.

quote:

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The native is easily confused or lost within social boundaries; they can’t comprehend others’ judgements or the rules placed upon them, and this creates deep interpersonal discomfort which invades the subconscious mind and the soul, surfacing through dreams, art, & emotions (which are the only places they feel free). They may cling to religion/spirituality to find their individuality. They can’t differentiate external standards from interior goals/desires and often chase ideals that aren’t their own. Others demonize their aberrant qualities and label them inaccurately. They liberate themselves through deceit, illusion, and escapism, as it is the only way they know how to. - https://astral-obscura.tumblr.com/post/165913738928/aspects-of-lilith

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I'm glad you are in therapy - I recently started too. I imagine you have explored your attachment style as well? I have found working on mine extremely helpful, and I highly recommend Briana MacWilliam's work - you can find her on YouTube.

posted March 28, 2022 08:21 PM            

First off, thank you so much for such a detailed response.

I did look into my attachment style, and I feel it's primarily anxious-preoccupied which transforms into fearful-avoidant once people reciprocate my affections. I exhibit a number of signs of emotional dysregulation which I can chalk up to experiences during my childhood.

On the 3° rule: while some astrologers opine that when the luminaries or other personal planets are concerned, one should consider orbs as wide as 10°, I lean more towards the 3° rule, TBH. However, I wasn't sure if that was the correct thing to do.

On orb widths with respect to the various women who've come in my life: here's the data:

• Woman #1. Can't seem to remember her date and place of birth, but I'm sure I had my Mo. and Ve. conj. her Pl. and Ne. respectively in synastry.
  
• Woman #2. Mo. conj. Pl. 5°17'; Ve. conj. Ne. 9°42'
  
• Woman #3. Mo. conj. Pl. 0°04'; Ve. conj. Ne. 5°14'
  
• Woman #4. Mo. conj. Pl. 2°39'; Ve. conj. Ne. 5°46'
  
• Woman #5. Mo. conj. Pl. 6°05'; Ve. conj. Ne. 9°00'
  
• Woman #6. Mo. conj. Pl. 6°26'; Ve. conj. Ne. 0°44' (my Neptune AS line passes right through their birthplace, and my Venus AS line is close by thanks to my natal Ve. conj. Ne)
  
• Woman #7. Mo. conj. Pl. surprise, surprise, NONE; Ve. conj. Ne. 6°00'
  

With Woman #7, my data was a bit wrong, her Moon appears to trine my Pluto and not the other way round.

Astrologically, I couldn't find any major similarity among the charts of the aforementioned women. All I have is these:

• Moon sign distribution: Gem. 1, Leo. 1, Lib. 2, Pis. 2 (predisposition towards Air planets to compensate lack of Air in my chart?)
  
• Sun sign distribution: Ari. 1, Gem. 1, Can. 1, Lib. 1, Aqu. 1, Pis. 1 (once again, predisposition towards Air planets to compensate lack of Air in my chart?)
  

On women having planets in H1 through H6 and Taurus through Libra:

• Women younger than me: yes.
  
• Women closer to me with respect to age: less so.
  

I'm actually reading up on anaretic Mars and might be able to respond better once I've built up a bit of knowledge on the same. Also, thanks for pointing me to Brianna MacWilliam, I'll most definitely have a look.

I've known about my NN for some time now; however, most descriptions of NN in the 12th are so abstract, that it becomes difficult to act upon them. Descriptions of NN in Aries are much more concrete and I've been working on my assertiveness (with a fair bit of success) ever since I started therapy. Do you have any pointers about the former placement? That'd be immensely helpful.

posted March 28, 2022 10:21 PM            

I understand you on the orb widths - I sometimes do feel wider orbs, but I don't consider myself super advanced, so I defer to others.

I can't argue with your data, though. That is pretty consistent. Their outer planets seem to be amplifying your natal aspects to the Nth degree. Considering that, it seems the pattern is repeating in order to point you towards your own inner challenges - less to do with them and more as mirrors for you. (Ha... haven't we all heard that one before!) Your moon/Pluto being sextile your Venus/Neptune, they obviously feed off of one another. They are also both aspecting your Mercury. I find it helpful to break down patterns like this and journal on each planet one by one, reflecting on how each planet manifests in its respective sign and house, then reflecting on the aspects on top of that (starting with the conjunctions, then the wider angles) and how they feed into one another. This method has helped me work out grand trines and other patterns in my own chart, and at least increased my awareness of how and where I get stuck.

I do agree you're seeking balance through the Air placements. I've found that consistently for myself and anyone whose relationship patterns I've looked into - we're always seeking what we feel we lack in ourselves. Interesting about the house/sign distribution as well.

I'm so glad you've made progress with your Aries North Node! That's so brilliant. NN Aries in the 12th does sound difficult to reconcile... both are independent and somewhat isolating, but as well I think of the elements fire and water both being very emotional. You're coming from the detached, objective, practical, intellectual air/earth and trying to tap into your passion (fire) and COMpassion (water). I've been working on some north node materials and I've written or collected much information... My NN is actually opposite, in the 6th house, so I feel I understand 12th house pretty well (plus my Mars in Pisces, then my moon and Mercury in Aries).

Here's some of my own writing on the 6/12 "existence" axis:

quote:

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Having the North and South Nodes in the 6th or 12th houses and/or in Virgo or Pisces places you on the Existence Axis. It is the body / spirit axis. It’s a mutable axis of both physical and spiritual wellbeing: you may be too focused on or too detached from your body, too impractical or too unimaginative, too structured or too undefined... Your life path involves balancing being hardworking and practical with trusting the universe and accepting the ebb and flow of life. “Material versus immaterial” is a major theme of your life. Your karmic classroom is in aligning your daily routine with your spiritual beliefs and deepest dreams. The mutable axes deal with our belief systems - so becoming either rigid or directionless are signs of imbalance... If your North Node is in the twelfth house or Pisces, you’ve got the opposite problem: you may be neurotic, too attached to the physical body, and too caught up in all the details that could go wrong. You need to learn to let go of what is outside your control and trust that there are benevolent forces working behind the scenes for you. They have your best interests at heart, whether you can see it or not. Beware of your fear for survival and need for control; instead, let go to let in, and embrace the interconnectedness of all life. Tend to your subconscious. Whenever you have an earth South Node and a water North Node, your natural tendency is to be too rigid and ignore feelings (your own or others’) at the expense of everyone’s emotional wellbeing; you’ve got to learn to see emotional health as equally important as physical health, and carve out the time to tend to your own emotional, psychological, and spiritual needs. Let go of perfectionism and the desire for control and instead merge into the great river of life... This axis is about managing self care with care for others. Like all astrological axes, it’s about balance - it isn’t about obsessing over the body and details or neglecting the body to lose yourself in the psychospiritual realm, but learning to meet in the middle. It means having compassion for oneself as well as others, including all living beings - but still exercising healthy emotional boundaries. It means knowing when to work and when to rest. When you master this axis, you will have a holistic approach to health, empathy with boundaries, and selfless service without self-sacrifice. Ultimately, it is about balance. Perhaps you are already on your way.

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Thinking about it more, a south node in Libra in the 6th house is very other-focused. Very relationship-focused. Virgo is the sign of selfless service and Libra is the relationship person, the diplomat, the compromiser. Probably your karma revolves around too much self-sacrifice and focus on the other, and I imagine the north node in Aries in the 12th is asking you to pursue both self and Self. I am imagining Arjuna on the battlefield in the Bhagavad Gita asking Krishna how to be the "spiritual man in action" - as a warrior, could he be any more 12th house Aries?

IMO, the key to understanding the nodes is to understand the axes. All astrology is a system of apparent paradoxes in which each dichotomy resolves itself into a singularity, like the universe itself... two opposite approaches to the same problem. Understanding the flip side of the coin is what makes the currency valuable.

A long time ago there was an excellent blog on the north nodes and I managed to save it all before it got taken down for some reason. I have no idea how to credit the author, if the author was even the blogger themselves or if this material comes from another source. Let me know if this resonates with you and I can share the rest - it is a looong document and it goes into a ton of detail, but here is the beginning:

quote:

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ATTRIBUTES TO DEVELOP
Work in these areas can help uncover hidden gifts and talents
Being nonjudgmental
Compassion
Surrendering anxiety to a Higher Power
Freeing the mind through meditation and self-reflection
Focusing on the spiritual pathway
Trusting in positive outcomes
Acknowledging connection with the universe
Welcoming change

TENDENCIES TO LEAVE BEHIND
Working to reduce the influence of these tendencies can help make life easier and more enjoyable
Hyperanxiety reactions
Overanalysis
Obsessive worry
Exaggerating the importance of details
Critical first reactions
Fault finding—making others wrong
Excessive anxiety over making mistakes
Being Mr. or Ms. Perfect
Staying in unpleasant situations
Inflexibility

PERSONAL CHALLENGE
The Achilles’ heel Pisces North Node people need to be aware of is their compulsive need for order (“My survival depends on everything being in order according to my view of how life ought to be and how others ought to behave”), and it can lead them into the trap of an unending search for perfection (“If only the people around me were more perfect, I could relax and trust”). But it’s a bottomless pit: Since life and other people are never in a static state of perfect order long enough for Pisces North Nodes to feel secure, their expectations can lead to continual tension and anxiety. Because life—and others—are never ideal enough for them to let go of control, they continually postpone trust and joy.
The bottom line involves accepting that the universe’s plan is better than theirs and that things are unfolding properly, regardless of how it seems. The only place they can create “perfect order” is within themselves, by surrendering to a Higher Power and trusting that everything is indeed in order. The irony is that when Pisces North Node people blindly trust the Infinite and accept that everything contributes to their greater happiness, they suddenly become aware of the larger picture and begin to sense how things are working to their advantage. Then they can let go of control and be happy.

WHAT YOU REALLY WANT
What you want is to be right all the time and to be perfect in the sense that they—and everyone else—are following “the plan” 100 percent of the time. But they want everyone to be in total, perfect alignment with “the plan” that they think is right. First they need to accept that they do not know what “the plan” is. They need to turn away from rigid physical and material planning and refocus on the larger, spiritual vision. Through trusting and surrendering to the wisdom of the Higher Power, they can watch life’s circumstances with the conviction that what is unfolding is indeed part of “the plan.” Then the way becomes clear. They are filled with calm and feel in alignment with “the plan” because the spiritual vision is the energy of perfection they are seeking.
Pisces rules enlightened states of consciousness, the oceanic feeling of oneness with all life. At times Pisces North Node people have slipped into an enlightenment state—a state of total connection with the universe. Their life purpose is to nurture that state and make it part of their daily experience.

TALENTS/PROFESSION
These people need to have their own private office or space. They work very well alone and enjoy projects that involve discovering and carrying out a vision where the work is done in private (such as research, library work, or computer work). Pisces North Node people succeed in any profession that involves the individual pursuit of spiritual Truth, including working and living in monasteries or convents. They can be fantastic artists, craftspeople, performers, or musicians—bringing their private dream to others. They are also great promoters, because they are so good at “behind the scenes” activities. Even if they work in a regular job, they need to allow themselves ample time for solitude and reflection.
Pisces North Node people also have inherent gifts for noticing pertinent details and analyzing the significance of information. When they use these past-life gifts as a backdrop for manifesting their dreams, their innate practicality will help them. However, if they involve themselves in professions that stress attention to detail, in-depth analysis, perfection, or accuracy (such as bookkeeping or systems analysis), they are likely to experience anxiety and restlessness. These folks are better off when their profession focuses on manifesting a vision, empowering them to use their practical skills to bring it into reality.

HEALING AFFIRMATIONS
“All is well and everything is unfolding as it should.”
“God’s spiritual government can never fall out of place.”
“When I ‘Let Go and Let God’—I win.”
“My survival is not threatened by disorder.”
“This isn’t my job—it’s God’s job.”

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posted March 28, 2022 10:23 PM            

I also think NN Aries in the 12th would be asking you to go with the flow and be more spontaneous and impulsive. Aries does WHATEVER it wants, and Pisces does too, but in a more relaxed way, whereas Aries is more excited about things. But neither one is much of a planner or a strategist. They're both just following their heart. Maybe that's what you ought to do - and seize that Mars?

posted March 29, 2022 12:44 AM            

Thanks once again for your very insightful responses.

I'm seeing your responses as I'm about to go off to sleep, so I'll post a more complete response once I've had the time to digest all of your points. However, there's something very interesting that I came across that I'd like to share.

I did a bit of research on the conjunction between Ceres and Uranus that you pointed out in an earlier post. It looks like you might be on to something big. This is what I found:

quote:

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Stressful aspects between Ceres and Uranus indicate that the early nurturing was erratic. Like stressful aspects between the Moon and Uranus, this could cause contact difficulties as an adult. When these people feel a need for nurturing, they could simply run. What is happening is that, as an infant, the unstable nurturing caused panic (if I don't get nurtured, I'll die). The panic is frequently dealt with by denial (I don't need them). Sure, the child survives, but when they grow up and start dating, they eventually meet someone that they start feeling close to. At that point, up comes the emotion-laden thought, "If they find out I need them, they're going to leave me and I'll die!" Solution: leave first. Except Uranus doesn't just leave. It ejects. People with stressful Ceres/Uranus aspects are more likely to get romantically involved with unstable types who are incapable of providing nurturing. Then they go to an astrologer and complain that they can never find a good person, and when are they ever going to meet their soul mate. At that point, the best thing to do is tell them that if they were to meet a soul mate, they would probably mess that relationship up too. The instability is a diversion. Their real goal is to avoid and ignore their own nurturing needs and the childhood panic they felt by not having those needs met. Once this is recognized, steps can be taken to break this self-destructive pattern.

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While I don't quite understand the line...

quote:

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Their real goal is to avoid and ignore their own nurturing needs and the childhood panic they felt by not having those needs met.

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posted April 12, 2022 12:46 AM            

Apologies for the late response — I've been really tied up with work for the past couple of weeks.

Could you please share that blog on North nodes that you mentioned in an earlier response in its entirety?