Lindaland
  Horary And Event Astrology
  Horary Chart: Speeding Ticket (Good practice for students of horary)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Horary Chart: Speeding Ticket (Good practice for students of horary)
appleberry
Moderator

Posts: 2399
From: Venusian, w/Cancer MC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted November 20, 2014 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for appleberry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thought someone might be interested in looking at a horary chart to practice their skills. Here is the chart with the question. I already have the answer and I will post the answer later, but I wanted to give people the chance to practice first. I would love to see your calculations. I used this page to help me make mine: http://www.auxmaillesgodefroy.com/legal_charts

Some details:
- The ticket was a speeding ticket given in June 2013. The court appearance was almost a year and a half later.
- At the time of the ticket, I explained my situation to the officer and it was his advice that I fight the ticket. He seemed to regret having given it at the time (because I explained that it would cause my insurance to go up and cost me an extra $10,000 in insurance fees over 10 years).
- Given the length of time between the ticket and the court appearance, it was clear the officer would forget his regret.
- My defense was the officer had caught someone else on the radar, not my car, because I was in the process of changing lanes at the time (which is completely true).
- I was hoping my officer would not appear at court and my case would be dismissed. However, right before the court appearance, another officer waiting to enter the courtroom for a different case (they do several at once) asked who my officer was, to let me know if he was there. This officer said that my officer was in fact there.
- I was extremely stressed about the outcome of this case. I I hoped at least that if they could not rule in my favor that at least they would somehow reduce the fine (almost $200) and find a way for it not to tarnish my driving record (which would be the cause of the insurance increase).
- This horary chart was created exactly 31 days before the court appearance.

IP: Logged

appleberry
Moderator

Posts: 2399
From: Venusian, w/Cancer MC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted November 20, 2014 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for appleberry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If it makes a difference for you, the judge was female.

IP: Logged

appleberry
Moderator

Posts: 2399
From: Venusian, w/Cancer MC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted November 22, 2014 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for appleberry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm.... no takers... wondering when to post the answer...

IP: Logged

tgem
Moderator

Posts: 4045
From:
Registered: Jan 2013

posted November 23, 2014 08:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tgem     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for posting this. It's always good to practice with known answers. I will come back to look at this chart closely and give my input

IP: Logged

elixir
Knowflake

Posts: 2266
From: United States
Registered: Apr 2012

posted November 23, 2014 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elixir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm gonna to have a look later too and post.

IP: Logged

elixir
Knowflake

Posts: 2266
From: United States
Registered: Apr 2012

posted November 24, 2014 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for elixir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hm, on second thought this is too complicated for me, but if you explain the chart I'll be happy to read it.

IP: Logged

hannaramaa
Moderator

Posts: 10129
From:
Registered: Nov 2011

posted November 24, 2014 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, since we're talking about legalities I assume we'd use the 9th house hence Mars. Mars and Saturn aren't aspecting so I'd guess it's a no?

IP: Logged

hannaramaa
Moderator

Posts: 10129
From:
Registered: Nov 2011

posted November 25, 2014 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But which way do we count to find the End of Matter house? It's either the 1st or the 6th if we're counting from the 9th. If it's the 6th, Moon is near Jupiter (yes, I know I'm just winging it here) and exalted in Cancer which I would think is lucky. So is Neptune in the 1st, it could indicate forgiveness.

IP: Logged

appleberry
Moderator

Posts: 2399
From: Venusian, w/Cancer MC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted November 26, 2014 02:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for appleberry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting... I hadn't heard that Neptune in the first meant forgiveness. I had seen the Rx planets in the first as my own stress and worry about the situation.

Well, in terms of houses. I understood that:
- House 7 was the police officer who gave the ticket.
- House 9 as the Jury or the Court as a whole.
- House 10 as the Judge.
- House 4 as the end of the matter as a whole. (4 because it's the end of the matter for the question focussed on the outcome for me... so 4 from the AC)

There were no lawyers, witnesses or jury in this case.

I always put fixed stars on my charts because I am surprised at how often they play an important part in my horaries. In this chart Aldebaran and Antares are right on the MC/IC axis... less than one degree of separation, so I saw meaning in that.

Lord of the 4th is also conjunct Spica within 3 degrees, so that is something to take into account.

I looked at the connections between L1/L7, L1/L10, and L9/Moon. Each of these connections are telling for me.

IP: Logged

hannaramaa
Moderator

Posts: 10129
From:
Registered: Nov 2011

posted November 26, 2014 02:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hannaramaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm..I don't know if that makes sense to me. I get why you'd assign the officer to 7th, but seeing as 7th rules for romantic and business relationships that doesn't seem appropriate. 9th seems appropriate for the judge, officer, and matter involved because Jupiter rules lawyers and judges and all that jazz. 10th is just a career house and we're asking about your traffic ticket.

I'm open to being swayed, just explaining my thought process.

Also I wing horaries and read them from what I know about the planets and nothing about traditional horary (with the exception of basic rules) so that's how I derived Neptune meaning forgiveness.

IP: Logged

appleberry
Moderator

Posts: 2399
From: Venusian, w/Cancer MC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted November 26, 2014 03:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for appleberry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The officer is the 7th because when you go to court for a speeding ticket, you are defending your case against the officer - he has to prove you guilty.

For horary, I don't really see house 7 as 'romantic'. 5 is about romance, 7 is about partnership."You are with me or against me" is the 7th house theme in my mind. I guess it's confusing because it's the house of marriage, which is a partnership - but most people unify the concepts of love and marriage, so it seems like it should also be about love and romance, but it doesn't seem to work that way in horary.

House 7 is the 'opponent' in legal horary. You should have a look at this page for more info on that: http://www.auxmaillesgodefroy.com/legal_charts
It's more information specifically for legal charts.

IP: Logged

appleberry
Moderator

Posts: 2399
From: Venusian, w/Cancer MC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted December 05, 2014 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for appleberry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
- - - - SPOILER ALERT - - - -

***THIS POST CONTAINS THE ANSWER TO THE HORARY QUESTION, AS WELL AS ALL THE DETAILS OF THE SITUATION.***


Well, I thought this was a very hard chart to work out the answer for, and I'd actually never done a legal chart before so I was pretty unclear about the use of the houses. Given everything that happened with the case, I thought I would add the details and outcome so others might have the opportunity to learn more about legal charts.

Your answer should be yes, or something to accord with the final outcome (details below).


FIXED STARS:
Fixed start Spica protects from the heat of the Via Combusta. So, I saw some hope in the Lord of the end of the matter being protected in the Via Combusta.

If I remember correctly, I read in the past that when functioning together, fixed stars Aldebaran and Antares are telling. Antares mark an ending and loss, and Aldebaran marks a new beginning, a victory. I think they spoke accurately in this situation being on the MC/IC axis marking the Judge and Verdict.

The other star point I looked at was the AC which lands closest to Alnair, which is a fortunate star, with the character of Mars/Mercury.

ASPECTS:
L1/L7 = The police officer chose not to come into the court room until my case had passed. I did not even have "disclosure", so no connection whatsoever. To me, it makes sense then that there was no aspect between the first and seventh houses for that reason.

House 1 & L1/Moon = I saw applying minor aspects between the moon and Neptune, Chiron... I didn't really take these into consideration because Neptune and Chiron are not normally considered. I did take note that Neptune and Chiron probably accurately described my emotional state from the situation. Uranus was so close to the end of the house, that I barely considered it at all. A wide separating trine between my main significator and the moon didn't help much.

L9(Mars)/Moon = I think the applying trine between the Lord of the 9th, which I took to be the court as a whole, in absence of a jury, and the Moon (the situation) to be a secondary indication of a yes for this chart. (My main significator is also being received by Mars, showing support).

L1/L10 = I think this was the most important connection for this question, because it is ultimately the judge who decides whether I win the case or not, not the jury because there was no jury. According to dignities (showing the fairness of the judge), the judge was in a relatively fair position, being in the face of Jupiter. The main aspect of the chart is then and applying square, which people often consider to be a 'no' in horary, but for me can turn into a yes, especially if there is any other support, particularly if the moon helps support.

The Moon's last conjunction was UranusRx (probably a good description of the event of receiving the ticket), with the next conjunction being Jupiter... which was a good sign.

The Moon's last aspect was a sextile with the Sun (the officer), perhaps showing the good nature of the officer, and the next Ptolomeic aspect of the moon would be a trine with Mars (the court) in 5* (5 weeks from the point of making the chart possibly, but I didn't have a look at the timing). Ultimately a good thing to see as well.

The fact that the officer chose not to come into the court room, forced a dismissal of the case. So, I did win the case by default. I think this is why there was an applying square, because had the officer shown up, it's possible the judge would have ruled in his favor.

Given that the officer's significator was in a stronger house, with stronger essential dignities, I felt he had the upper hand in winning the case. The only good point was that he was in a detrimental sign of the judge, and I was being 'received' by the 'court'.

I understood the officer was there in the building (another officer confirmed having seen him there already), and I was in the court room waiting for my case expecting him to walk into the room at any moment, but he didn't. I think those aspects of the situation played a part in there being an applying square, because I was in so much stress, but things worked out in my favor, thus the applying square.

Another reason I chose to put up this chart is because I often see people asking if an applying square in horary can turn out to be a yes, and in this case, it did. So, hopefully it's a good example and explanation of how an applying square can turn out to be a yes.


FINAL OUTCOME:
I won the case, but only because the case was dismissed. The case/ticket was dismissed because the officer was not in the courtroom at the beginning of the hearing and failed to enter the courtroom after being called to the court over the intercom. About 30 minutes before we entered the courtroom, I was told by another officer that my officer was there at court. They schedule more than one case per day so it seems the officer had come for other cases but chose not to enter the court room. It seems the officer wanted me to win the case in this way.

IP: Logged

appleberry
Moderator

Posts: 2399
From: Venusian, w/Cancer MC
Registered: Jun 2011

posted July 18, 2015 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for appleberry     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump, for those who are studying.

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright 2000-2015

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a