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Author Topic:   5th/11th Axis in Relationships
LeeLoo2014
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From: Venus cornering Neptune
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posted July 05, 2014 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lotis, do you consider the 11th house to be a love house as well? I'm beginning to think it can have some important romantic connotations, based on my studies and cases.

I'm getting back to this...

------------------

I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

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Tulipe
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posted July 05, 2014 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tulipe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

------------------
what goes up must come
down, so when you're
feeling down, the only
way to be is up

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I'm so cappy
Knowflake

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From: Death Star
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posted July 05, 2014 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^lol

------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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Tulipe
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posted July 05, 2014 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tulipe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't stop laughing at the gif myself hahahaha.

------------------
what goes up must come
down, so when you're
feeling down, the only
way to be is up

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LeeLoo2014
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From: Venus cornering Neptune
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posted July 05, 2014 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tulipe:


OMG..it shows your passion for pop...astrology SO much hehehehehehehehe


What a brilliant gif!

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meissieri
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posted July 05, 2014 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for meissieri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think she does. There's this really good thread she wrote on it, let me find it for you.

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/208851.html

Definitely worth a read and it explains a lot.

Curious, if you've changed your mind or found out anything new, though, Lotis. (If you read this.)

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 05, 2014 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, my..thank you for this great link, Meissieri

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Ceridwen
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posted July 05, 2014 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do.
Has a lot to do with how we receive love, and thus ties into our (self) value-system as well, how loveable you feel will have a direct impact on your relationships.

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next to neptune
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posted July 05, 2014 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My 11th house is ruled by mars, and I feel egoistical with a lot of things in love… I noticed I don't really give as much as I receive, but in the actual love-making I like to give more than receive…I feel that's my place to be, but on an everyday basis I need a lot of understanding, peace and freedom to feel loved, and feel that I can love another.

But I always try to give more than I receive in my relationships, seriously people should have a price for wanting to be with me…. (So no, I don't feel especially lovable)

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Lotis White
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posted July 06, 2014 01:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes.

And thanks meissieri for providing the link.


quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I do.
Has a lot to do with how we receive love, and thus ties into our (self) value-system as well, how loveable you feel will have a direct impact on your relationships.

Pretty much this!

The symbolism of the 11th house describes the types of behaviors we recognize as ‘loving’. If our 11th house is really conflicted we could have some messed up ideas about what loving behavior is. Mars in the 11th square Pluto or Saturn, for instances, could actually recognize some pretty mean, controlling and aggressive behaviors as ’loving’. Not that all people with conflicted 11th houses have this problem. But it can happen.

The 5th house is about GIVING love, and being passionately inspired by something or someone.

The 5th house describes what impresses us about others and makes us want to rave about them. If we have planets in our own 5th house, or a strongly aspected 5th house ruler in our natal chart, we may be impressed with ourselves, or conversely somewhat ashamed, depending on the configuration (but that’s another story).

In synastry, a love interest aspecting our 5th house ruler or putting planets in our 5th house, will cause us to be impressed with that person, and to want to do a big ‘Song n’ Dance’ about them. That person will become larger then life to us personally (even if by nature they’re pretty low-profile). They’ll press our infatuation buttons. And we’ll become enthused about how great they are, and how moved we are by the feelings we have for them. When we’re in 5th house mode we’re often preoccupied with what we feel inside ourselves and how we want to express this to others. Even if this is done anonymously. At least we’re able to get some of the intensity we feel outside ourselves. After all, the 5th house rules how we fall in love, and with whom.

The 11th house is about RECECIVING love, and being able to recognize special attention from others.

In our 11th house state we’re well aware that there are many varieties of people out there. Some will appreciate us. Some will not. The symbolism of the 11th house describes the types of people that become our admirers. In 5th house mode it’s as if we’re on a stage professing our passion for something or someone. When we’re in 11th house mode it’s the opposite. Instead of being the expresser we become the recipient. We get the chance to observe the behavior of another and evaluate within ourselves how we think/feel about it, and if we want to let this type of energy into our lives. People whose charts harmoniously influence our 11th house have the capacity to warm our hearts with what they want to express to us. It’s as if they’re just able to hit all the right notes and make us feel valued, welcomed, and wanted. The symbolism of the 11th house describes the types of behavior from others that makes us feel loved and appreciated. When we’re in 11th house mode we’re often preoccupied with how others are treating us, and how we are valued by them.

The 5th/11th house Axis is very interrelated. In relationships we often flip/flop between these different modes of being. We give and we receive. Both houses are associated with a type of excitement or euphoria. The 5th house is about the rush we feel when we’re with someone who is special and amazing to us. The 11th house is about the rush we feel when we’re with someone who thinks we are special and amazing.

This Axis is kind of describes the shallow part of love relationships before we get deeper in the 7th and 8th houses. There’s a lot of ego involved. Basically the 5th/11th house Axis has a lot to do with courtship. The 5th house is the house of charisma, and the 11th house is the house of popularity. It’s often super fun and exciting to have these houses activated in synastry. If the connections are harmonious it can really boost our confidence. Activations to the 5th/11th houses can also be super painful if the synastry is not so great, as issues of acceptance vs rejection come to the fore. If things don't go well with either one of these houses it can lead to a bruised ego, possibly affecting our self-esteem. We all want the attention and love we GIVE to be received well (5th house). And we all want be on the RECEIVING end of positive attention from others rather then negative attention (the 11th house).

Which brings me to another point, often people with difficult natal 5th or 11th houses in their charts may despair in the area of love but there’s always hope. I’ll explain what I mean.

If someone has a conflicted 5th house they may have difficulty expressing their feelings to others. Maybe it always seems to come out wrong for some reason, or they never get the courage to do anything at all. However, if they meet someone who makes a harmonious connection with their 5th house they’ll be able to much more easily express themselves to that person. All of a sudden they feel way more stylish and smooth in how they express what’s in their hearts. It just seems to come out right around people who make nice connections to the 5th house in synastry. Basically, harmonious synastry connections to our 5th house make us feel charismatic, self-assured, and inspired, regardless of the natal condition of our 5th house.

On the other hand, someone with a conflicted 11th house may have difficulty in the arena of popularity. Perhaps they are widely disliked or ignored by their peers for stupid some reason. As we know not feeling accepted by our peers can be painful. However, if such a person meets someone who makes a harmonious connection to their 11th house this would be one of the few people, who despite what anyone else might say, thinks the 11th house person is so cool, and makes them feel as if they’re hot property (hope I didn‘t overdo it with the temperature analogies). Basically, harmonious synastry connections to the 11th house make us feel welcomed, appreciated, and wanted, regardless of the natal condition of our 11th house.

Ironically, the reverse can be true. Even if you have a super strong/harmonious 5th house and are usually rather charismatic and self-expressive, a person making not so nice connections to your 5th house may still just not ’get’ what your trying to express. It depends though. Because sometimes hard aspects are simply about intensity and can convey a lot of attraction). Also, if you have a super strong/harmonious 11th house and are usually very well liked by your peers, a person making not so nice connections to your 11th house might be the one who says: “I don’t get what all the fuss is about, they’re not THAT great” (Again it depends. Hard aspects are intense and they can go either way. Intense appreciation or intense disapproval).

Personally, I believe everyone has value regardless of their 5th or 11th houses. It's important to treat person with kindness and respect. Some people with difficult 5th or 11th houses often have some painful experiences to overcome though, often in the acceptance/rejection area. Difficult aspects make us work hard to get results. Eventually even difficult configurations can be turned into a positive, especially with the help of someone who helps smooth the way for us (as shown by positive synastry to the 5th/11th houses in our chart).

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athenegoddess
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posted July 06, 2014 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for athenegoddess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the person I believe I will have kids with activates my 11th house.

His Saturn/Mars/Pluto are conjunct my 11th house cusp in Leo.

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next to neptune
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posted July 06, 2014 03:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for next to neptune     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
VERY interesting reply from Lotis White!

My 11th house ruler is Mars and my mars is afflicted by squaring uranus, opposite moon and conjunction sun.
It's exactly true what you describe about an afflicted 11th house ruler.
In me and my boyfriends synastry my mars receives hard aspects, from conjunction to his venus and mercury but square ascendant. But I always feel like he treats me like his princess…

But how important is it to have some of their planets falling in this 5th/11th axis?

His pluto, juno and lilith falls in my 5th house, but nothing in the 11th

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IndigoDirae
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posted July 06, 2014 05:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very illuminating.

Just noticed how my Twin and I have a rather complementary overlay:

His EROS in my 5H
My PSYCHE in his 5H

He's a natal 11H SUN; my VALENTINE falls there -- conjunct the 11C by 0°01. Wow!

And -- get this -- my EROS is parallel his 11C (along with NEP, my 7R). On the other hand, my PSYCHE is parallel his 7C.

But it's my Guardian's SUN which is in my 11H and parallel the 11C -- along with his 7R there, trine my MOON.

That makes perfect sense, as he's the one who slowly began teaching me, by example, through loving me with respect and for the reasons I had most wanted. No one quite adores me as openly as he does.

His JUPITER-ALMA is there, too. Ohh, yes. It's deeply soulful.

Interesting -- his VERTEX-VALENTINE parallels the 11C exactly, too; so is KAALI. Huh. (And his VX is in my 11H.)

I throw quite a bit into his 11H, too: EROS, MERC, APHRODITE, and LILITH among them. (My PSYCHE's in his 7H; his EROS is in my 8H.)

Some nice overlays there.

I noticed that there are several important contraparallels: from my Twin's luminaries, (his 7R, and chartruler) plus NEP, JUP (his 11R), and DESTINN.

That, of course, means they're parallel my 5C, too.

Any thoughts on how that's playing out?

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Lotis White
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posted July 06, 2014 06:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lotis White     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by next to neptune:
VERY interesting reply from Lotis White!
My 11th house ruler is Mars and my mars is afflicted by squaring uranus, opposite moon and conjunction sun.
It's exactly true what you describe about an afflicted 11th house ruler.
In me and my boyfriends synastry my mars receives hard aspects, from conjunction to his venus and mercury but square ascendant. But I always feel like he treats me like his princess…

But how important is it to have some of their planets falling in this 5th/11th axis?

His pluto, juno and lilith falls in my 5th house, but nothing in the 11th


Hi next to neptune,

Okay, although the conjunction is technically a hard aspect it's not difficult like a square or opposition. Actually, conjunctions are usually positive especially if the natures of the planets concerned go well together. Conjunctions show a sense of unity and familiarity. His Venus conjunct your 11th house ruler, especially, sounds pretty good to me. No wonder you feel he treats you like a princess. The square to his Asc may present a little bit of a challenge but nothing major considering his Mecury and Venus are already conjunct your 11th house ruler.

It's always nice for a partner to have planets in your 5th or 11th house but it's not essential. If they strongly aspect the rulers of these houses this can create some nice chemistry too. Or they could strongly aspect natal planets in your 5th and 11th houses. Symbolizim matches to the 5th or 11th houses can work for attraction as well. If you have Uranus in the 11th you will attract attention and admiration from Uranus/Aquarius type people general, even though technically Aquarius planets don't fall into your 11th house. If you have Jupiter in the 5th house you would admire and be attracted to Jupiter/Sagittarius types even though Sagittarius planets don't technically fall into your 5th house. However, it is best if these sorts of symbolic matches are also supported by 5th house/11th house synastry aspects to give energy to the connection.

You might try looking into secondary houses, if you like, to see if there are any hits there that make up for a lack with the original 5th and 11th houses. Do you have Aries on the 11th house? If so, then the 1st house (the Aries house) is your secondary 11th house. With Libra on the 5th house the 7th house (the Libra house) is your secondary 5th.

Aries on the 11th means that you really appreciate when a love interest is direct and honest with you, and not afraid to just be their spontaneous self with you. You want to be able to see all of who they are and may see refreshing honesty and openness towards you as an act of love. The position of Mars by house, sign, and aspect, will add more details to this.

Libra on 5th house means that guys who have charm, and can smooth over rough situations with some well placed comments, impress you. You like guys that are social and diplomatic but also fair-minded and firm. Being handsome doesn't hurt either. You enjoy being around someone with an disarming friendly energy to them, who is willing to put effort into making the two of you work together as unit. The position of Venus by house, sign, and aspect, will add more details to this.

ABOUT ASPECTS IN GENERAL

Of all the hard aspects the square is the most difficult. An opposition can be challenging but it's somehow more civilized then the square, and rather then inspiring a fist fight (which is more a square thing), an opposition inspires debate and compromise. Sometimes agreeing to disagree. With oppositions there's also a natural sense of admiration for the other person's qualities. They balance you.

With the square...

Square aspects are about going to extremes, and the dynamic activity created by that, so change can occur. They're not ALWAYS an indication that a situation is hopeless in synastry. But extreme reactions tend to occur as a result. Square aspects could inspire a person to intensely adore you or hate your guts. It depends on the context. So hard aspects to the 5th or 11th house rulers, or to our planets in the 5th or 11th houses, can be a bit of a mixed bag in terms of results. Extreme attraction or repulsion can occur.

Sometimes a person with a hard aspect to our 11th house ruler does adore us but the aren't able to express in a way that we can appreciate (unless they have some soft aspects to our 11th to compensate for this), or the could make us feel pressured to accept attention we don't want. The 5th house ruler in synastry hard aspect could make us feel as we have a need to express something to another that the other may not understand, doesn't agree with, or doesn't want to deal with. At other times, those who like intensity may actually enjoy someone coming at them with a square to their 5th or 11th house planets or rulers. It's possible to actually kind of like the forceful energy of a square even if can feel a little overwhelming. Some people like the push and dynamism of the square.

If your not the type of person that can deal with square energy well, even if only to certain planets, a square to the 5th or 11th could hurt your feelings.

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I'm so cappy
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posted July 06, 2014 06:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Saturn rules my 5th house and my afflicted Moon rules the 11th house, it's sooo easy to luv and be luved They're even square.

------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 06, 2014 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I do.
Has a lot to do with how we receive love, and thus ties into our (self) value-system as well, how loveable you feel will have a direct impact on your relationships.

Nicely put, Ceri. Traditionally, the 11th is considered a "friendship" house, but in practice, when we have a romantic/love synastry overall, I've noticed the 11th is almost always activated somehow. In this respect, I think it is associated with: kinship, a sense of fellowship, mutual love, love returned, unconditional love, platonic in the sense of idealized love/person and, of course, a twinflame vibe Still thinking about this one (the 11th)

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LeeLoo2014
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posted July 06, 2014 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lotis White:
Yes.

And thanks meissieri for providing the link.


Pretty much this!

The symbolism of the 11th house describes the types of behaviors we recognize as ‘loving’. If our 11th house is really conflicted we could have some messed up ideas about what loving behavior is. Mars in the 11th square Pluto or Saturn, for instances, could actually recognize some pretty mean, controlling and aggressive behaviors as ’loving’. Not that all people with conflicted 11th houses have this problem. But it can happen.

The 5th house is about GIVING love, and being passionately inspired by something or someone.

The 5th house describes what impresses us about others and makes us want to rave about them. If we have planets in our own 5th house, or a strongly aspected 5th house ruler in our natal chart, we may be impressed with ourselves, or conversely somewhat ashamed, depending on the configuration (but that’s another story).

In synastry, a love interest aspecting our 5th house ruler or putting planets in our 5th house, will cause us to be impressed with that person, and to want to do a big ‘Song n’ Dance’ about them. That person will become larger then life to us personally (even if by nature they’re pretty low-profile). They’ll press our infatuation buttons. And we’ll become enthused about how great they are, and how moved we are by the feelings we have for them. When we’re in 5th house mode we’re often preoccupied with what we feel inside ourselves and how we want to express this to others. Even if this is done anonymously. At least we’re able to get some of the intensity we feel outside ourselves. After all, the 5th house rules how we fall in love, and with whom.

The 11th house is about RECECIVING love, and being able to recognize special attention from others.

In our 11th house state we’re well aware that there are many varieties of people out there. Some will appreciate us. Some will not. The symbolism of the 11th house describes the types of people that become our admirers. In 5th house mode it’s as if we’re on a stage professing our passion for something or someone. When we’re in 11th house mode it’s the opposite. Instead of being the expresser we become the recipient. We get the chance to observe the behavior of another and evaluate within ourselves how we think/feel about it, and if we want to let this type of energy into our lives. People whose charts harmoniously influence our 11th house have the capacity to warm our hearts with what they want to express to us. It’s as if they’re just able to hit all the right notes and make us feel valued, welcomed, and wanted. The symbolism of the 11th house describes the types of behavior from others that makes us feel loved and appreciated. When we’re in 11th house mode we’re often preoccupied with how others are treating us, and how we are valued by them.

The 5th/11th house Axis is very interrelated. In relationships we often flip/flop between these different modes of being. We give and we receive. Both houses are associated with a type of excitement or euphoria. The 5th house is about the rush we feel when we’re with someone who is special and amazing to us. The 11th house is about the rush we feel when we’re with someone who thinks we are special and amazing.

This Axis is kind of describes the shallow part of love relationships before we get deeper in the 7th and 8th houses. There’s a lot of ego involved. Basically the 5th/11th house Axis has a lot to do with courtship. The 5th house is the house of charisma, and the 11th house is the house of popularity. It’s often super fun and exciting to have these houses activated in synastry. If the connections are harmonious it can really boost our confidence. Activations to the 5th/11th houses can also be super painful if the synastry is not so great, as issues of acceptance vs rejection come to the fore. If things don't go well with either one of these houses it can lead to a bruised ego, possibly affecting our self-esteem. We all want the attention and love we GIVE to be received well (5th house). And we all want be on the RECEIVING end of positive attention from others rather then negative attention (the 11th house).

Which brings me to another point, often people with difficult natal 5th or 11th houses in their charts may despair in the area of love but there’s always hope. I’ll explain what I mean.

If someone has a conflicted 5th house they may have difficulty expressing their feelings to others. Maybe it always seems to come out wrong for some reason, or they never get the courage to do anything at all. However, if they meet someone who makes a harmonious connection with their 5th house they’ll be able to much more easily express themselves to that person. All of a sudden they feel way more stylish and smooth in how they express what’s in their hearts. It just seems to come out right around people who make nice connections to the 5th house in synastry. Basically, harmonious synastry connections to our 5th house make us feel charismatic, self-assured, and inspired, regardless of the natal condition of our 5th house.

On the other hand, someone with a conflicted 11th house may have difficulty in the arena of popularity. Perhaps they are widely disliked or ignored by their peers for stupid some reason. As we know not feeling accepted by our peers can be painful. However, if such a person meets someone who makes a harmonious connection to their 11th house this would be one of the few people, who despite what anyone else might say, thinks the 11th house person is so cool, and makes them feel as if they’re hot property (hope I didn‘t overdo it with the temperature analogies). Basically, harmonious synastry connections to the 11th house make us feel welcomed, appreciated, and wanted, regardless of the natal condition of our 11th house.

Ironically, the reverse can be true. Even if you have a super strong/harmonious 5th house and are usually rather charismatic and self-expressive, a person making not so nice connections to your 5th house may still just not ’get’ what your trying to express. It depends though. Because sometimes hard aspects are simply about intensity and can convey a lot of attraction). Also, if you have a super strong/harmonious 11th house and are usually very well liked by your peers, a person making not so nice connections to your 11th house might be the one who says: “I don’t get what all the fuss is about, they’re not THAT great” (Again it depends. Hard aspects are intense and they can go either way. Intense appreciation or intense disapproval).

Personally, I believe everyone has value regardless of their 5th or 11th houses. It's important to treat person with kindness and respect. Some people with difficult 5th or 11th houses often have some painful experiences to overcome though, often in the acceptance/rejection area. Difficult aspects make us work hard to get results. Eventually even difficult configurations can be turned into a positive, especially with the help of someone who helps smooth the way for us (as shown by positive synastry to the 5th/11th houses in our chart).


Such a wonderful post, Lotis, thank you! I love all your ideas I specifically liked this description: in the 5th house, we are moved by the feelings we have for another (enchanted by what we feel for them, enchanted by feeling in love with them), in the 11th house we are moved by their love for us and by their style of loving us (enchanted by being loved by them, by feeling they are in love with us). I'm thinking both of them have to be somehow equally activated (by rulers, aspects, secondary etc.) in a good and harmonious romantic synastry for these feelings to flow smoothly and mutually.

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Ceridwen
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posted July 06, 2014 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is part of the fixed cross, which deals with a person`s value-system in a broad sense, and is also the sexual cross of course.

I have come to a perspective that mirrors not only below and above horizon, but also noticed there is a mirroring taking place from East (left to MC) and the WEst (right to MC until IC).

The Eastern side very much dealing with you as a private person, the Western side bringing you in contact with another person. I noticed that in terms of the 5th house especially, even though it is below the horizon, and traditionally thought as "I", it is very much concerned with a partner and plays a big role in relationships.

As I see it it combines the two, it is concerned with the Partner or outside world (because it is between IC and MC, on the right side), but it does so from a subjective (Me) perspective. Me in relation to another person.


Anyway, following this thought, I see it like this nowadays.

2nd house is how you value your self in a very physical and general way. You in a relatively pure sense.

11th house has also to do with value of yourself, but being above horizon, it is also relating to the outside world.
So it is really how you value your self, on the basis of how other people react to you.

If they value you and show you appreciation, often a friendship or kinship results (cause we usually like being appreciated and valued).

Since it is part of the succedent cross, it has to do with your sexual profile a lot. 5th house is how you express, not only affection, but also your sexual identiy (you have to combine it with the 2nd house too btw), the 11th house would also play an important role in how loveable and secure you feel in a sexual relationship, relating to how your partner shows his affection to you.

2nd house and 5th house is very much how the general individual expression of sexuality is.
It is only in the 8th and 11th house, that an actual partner is present, so it has a lot to do with how you can share yourself intimately with another person.

the axis of the 2nd-8th house might be more to the core, or even more physical and visceral, while the acis of 5th - 11th might be more playful.

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Ceridwen
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posted July 06, 2014 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
beside Lotis these authors triggered that train of thoughts in me mostly

http://theinnerwheel.com/2010/08/26/synastry-studies-the-fixed-cross-and-the-urge-to-merge-part-one/
http://theinnerwheel.com/2010/08/30/synastry-studies-the-fixed-cross-and-the-urge-to-merge-part-two/
http://theinnerwheel.com/2010/09/10/synastry-studies-the-fixed-cross-and-the-urge-to-merge-part-three/

http://www.themetaarts.com/archives/200310/basilfearington.html
http://newwayastrology.tumblr.com/post/5647032541/sex-one-of-the-things-that-you-learn

http://www.themetaarts.com/200404/basilfearington.html
http://newwayastrology.tumblr.com/post/62316717430/the-all-important-succedent-cross-if-you-are-in

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LeeLoo2014
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Posts: 11983
From: Venus cornering Neptune
Registered: Mar 2014

posted July 06, 2014 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
It is part of the fixed cross, which deals with a person`s value-system in a broad sense, and is also the sexual cross of course.

I have come to a perspective that mirrors not only below and above horizon, but also noticed there is a mirroring taking place from East (left to MC) and the WEst (right to MC until IC).

The Eastern side very much dealing with you as a private person, the Western side bringing you in contact with another person. I noticed that in terms of the 5th house especially, even though it is below the horizon, and traditionally thought as "I", it is very much concerned with a partner and plays a big role in relationships.

As I see it it combines the two, it is concerned with the Partner or outside world (because it is between IC and MC, on the right side), but it does so from a subjective (Me) perspective. Me in relation to another person.


Anyway, following this thought, I see it like this nowadays.

2nd house is how you value your self in a very physical and general way. You in a relatively pure sense.

11th house has also to do with value of yourself, but being above horizon, it is also relating to the outside world.
So it is really how you value your self, on the basis of how other people react to you.

If they value you and show you appreciation, often a friendship or kinship results (cause we usually like being appreciated and valued).

Since it is part of the succedent cross, it has to do with your sexual profile a lot. 5th house is how you express, not only affection, but also your sexual identiy (you have to combine it with the 2nd house too btw), the 11th house would also play an important role in how loveable and secure you feel in a sexual relationship, relating to how your partner shows his affection to you.

2nd house and 5th house is very much how the general individual expression of sexuality is.
It is only in the 8th and 11th house, that an actual partner is present, so it has a lot to do with how you can share yourself intimately with another person.

the axis of the 2nd-8th house might be more to the core, or even more physical and visceral, while the acis of 5th - 11th might be more playful.


So interesting. Following your thoughts, I'm thinking in terms of sexuality 2nd and 8th relates to the basic physical/emotional needs when it comes to sex and the physical approach, while the 5th/11th axis: the actual "romance/eros" style of give-and-take, expressiveness, the roles played, how we play "the game of love and sex", like sexual courtship rituals/preferences (within the relationship).


And thanks for the lovely link compilation

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LeeLoo2014
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Posts: 11983
From: Venus cornering Neptune
Registered: Mar 2014

posted July 06, 2014 09:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Saturn rules my 5th house and my afflicted Moon rules the 11th house, it's sooo easy to luv and be luved They're even square.


Why is your Moon "afflicted", Cappy? Ehhh...you know, me and "afflictions"...not a good match. Of course squares from heavy planets to soft, emotional planets pose some problems, need some self-work/self-awareness/social adjustment, but hard aspects to your Moon only means you need hard aspects from the other's luminaries, and with Saturn, it gives you a predilection for serious stuff and the chance to have it with a mutual luminaries to Saturn contact.

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IndigoDirae
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Posts: 4120
From: Venice, California, US
Registered: Jul 2011

posted July 06, 2014 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Saturn rules my 5th house and my afflicted Moon rules the 11th house, it's sooo easy to luv and be luved They're even square.


:thinks:

My MOON (11R) is conjunct my URA by 1°. It's loosely opposite CHIRON -- and I mean loosely (7°), but it IS the MOON -- I never know how wide to go with lights and CHIRON. It's also conjunct my MARS, 5°.

My 5R is also SAT, obviously, but it's conjunct 1H JUNO and on the SGC.

I've never quite known what that means for me, except my Twin's OSIRIS is exactly conjunct it. No afflictions from what I can see.

Oh, there ARE from his chart to my 11R (MOON) -- his MARS-PSYCHE is square by 2°, but his SUN semisextiles. (Meh.)

Then his SATURN-KARMA-SNODE is conjunct it by 1° and 2°.

Fun times!

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meissieri
Knowflake

Posts: 1379
From: Neptune with my LL ladies... and commuting between Chiron, Moon & Saturn
Registered: Feb 2013

posted July 06, 2014 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for meissieri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lee & Lotus, you're both very welcome. Glad this has been brought up again, it's such a good topic and tends to be forgotten about in overlays.

I can only really agree with what Lotis and Ceridwen said on this.

Self esteem issues can definitely make you feel like you're not worth of any appreciation, possibly rejecting people or pushing them away. Or that you're not good enough for this or that person.

As for the 11th house, again, I'm smiling at my screen.

I have an afflicted 11th house ruler which is in the 11th as well, my Sun. Pluto's square from the 2nd house - that's it. It gives me this compulsion to prove myself, like I have to "deserve" being liked by people I want to be liked by. Trying to be easier on myself these days.
It also gets a harsh aspect from Saturn and a positive one from my moon.

About seeing bad behaviour as loving... I can relate sadly. Pluto's need for control made - and still makes - me drawn to "powerful" people who are a tad dominant. A lot of my friendships did have controlling behaviour and I thought it was normal. Same with the Plutonian push-pull - then they want me, then they don't. Revenge, needing to be in control and one-up me or whoever they had a problem with. Very unpredictable and made it hard when I'd get attached to them. A few of them were self-centred (Mars and Sun) and I naturally took the backseat to them. It reminded me of my upbringing.

It says so much about me liking moons falling in my 11th. They just get me, which makes me relax and just give them a lot of my time. Maybe there's a link with 5th house ruler Uranus (showing love) being part of a stellium that includes my moon?

The other planet in my 11th, Mars, aspects Pluto, Saturn and the moon as well, and trines Uranus, ruler of H5. Hmm... maybe this means that there's some mutual giving and taking between these houses?

But yes, it all fits! When I don't feel loved, I curl into myself and try to grit my teeth and deal, to get through (Saturn), get clingy and super-sensitive (Moon) or just obsess over why they don't like me & what went wrong. I fret a lot, stirring up some powerful emotions (Pluto).

The people I feel most comfortable with always have a few of these three signs in their chart (or dominant) or Aries, Leo or Virgo through the sun and Mars in my 11th and some of it being Virgo as well.

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IndigoDirae
Knowflake

Posts: 4120
From: Venice, California, US
Registered: Jul 2011

posted July 06, 2014 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As to the 2H and 8H, Lee, it's interesting how they interplay.

I've often seen harsh aspects and afflictions from the 8H or 8R when there's a breakdown in sexual response. Then if we find the 2H or 2R afflicted, it furthers the portrait of 'I don't like myself (because I've been shown others don't like me).' It's a mirror, in a sense.

If we don't first tackle the 2H, we can't expect to be able to reach the 8H. Unless we own our personal and private sexuality, we can't hope to express or share it with others.

Naturally, progressions and transits can be very telling here. And if karma is being activated, there will be strong overlays with the Draco.

I think, also, that if we don't have enough connexions between the 2H, and 5H / 11H, there will be too much internalisation. The 2H is a sort of egocentric 'soul fuel' -- despite the contradiction in terms. It's where we can transmute personal karma into assets, talents, and karmic gifts. That can then 'power' the 5H (inspiration of self) and 11H (fraternity, universal love and inspiration of others).

We usually find the initial breakdown in 2H; singletons, hard aspects -- things which don't reach above the horizon.

In turn, unless the 2H energy is 'transmuted', it won't activate 8H, either. Sex can take place, but it will never be a merging or sharing. This is 'selfish sexuality' -- possessed by those who are fearful, paranoid, and unable to cross the interpersonal bridge, due to betrayals and abandonment. Can absolutely be karmic, too, but the way it must be handled is the same way as reaching out to the West (5H) and the 11H (above the horizon).

The only way our soul is ever truly able to connect with others in the third dimension.

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I'm so cappy
Knowflake

Posts: 9778
From: Death Star
Registered: Nov 2012

posted July 06, 2014 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
:thinks:

My MOON (11R) is conjunct my URA by 1°. It's loosely opposite CHIRON -- and I mean loosely (7°), but it IS the MOON -- I never know how wide to go with lights and CHIRON. It's also conjunct my MARS, 5°.

My 5R is also SAT, obviously, but it's conjunct 1H JUNO and on the SGC.

I've never quite known what that means for me, except my Twin's OSIRIS is exactly conjunct it. No afflictions from what I can see.

Oh, there ARE from his chart to my 11R (MOON) -- his MARS-PSYCHE is square by 2°, but his SUN semisextiles. (Meh.)

Then his SATURN-KARMA-SNODE is conjunct it by 1° and 2°.

Fun times!


Moon square Venus
Moon square Saturn
Moon square NN
Moon square Chiron
Moon quincunx Mars
Moon at the 29th degree
Chiron conjunct SN in the 11th
Chiron opposite Saturn and Sun
Saturn conjunct NN, Venus and Sun
I won

------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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