posted February 17, 2008 01:19 PM         

Recently the subject of Teaching for Hire came up in conversation.

I remember Linda very distinctly saying that it was an old tradition that money should not be exchanged between teacher and student in return for instruction.

I'm not clear on the reasons, but I believe it had something to do with perverting the relationship somehow.

Does anyone know more about this; about the actual philosophy, Linda's thoughts on it and whether or not it's as valid today as it was when Linda wrote about it?

posted February 17, 2008 05:12 PM         

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The problem of money and spirituality is not new. There is nothing wrong with earning large sums of money. What matters is how you earn it and what you do with it after you've received it. You need not apologize for earning your daily bread (even large bushels of it) for any sort of labor you do which contributes something to the world, on any level. To receive cash compensation, you must put back into the world something of value, whether it be paintings, specialized services, clothings, automobiles, refrigerators, music, or entertainment. As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have to those less fortunate, you needn't be ashamed to be a millionaire-or even a billionaire-because you have let go of half, thereby allowing this "green energy" to circulate. (Also because you earned it by hard work.) Money is not evil. Only the use of it and the means of gaining it can cause it to be.

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As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have....

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Money must not change hands between esoteric teacher and student.

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It is unfortunate, for example, that there are no "churches" to support astrologers. They must "earn their daily bread" in some other manner, and perform their astrological counseling during their precious free time. It's unfortunate, yes, but not as much so as when astrologers charge for their readings, since the ancient teachings say that the one who heeds not the warning forbidding the exchange of money between teacher and student will soon "lose the gift of perception," and consequently will no longer be sought by the "students."

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posted February 17, 2008 05:13 PM         

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To receive cash compensation, you must put back into the world something of value, whether it be paintings, specialized services, clothings, automobiles, refrigerators, music, or entertainment. As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have to those less fortunate, you needn't be ashamed to be a millionaire-or even a billionaire-because you have let go of half, thereby allowing this "green energy" to circulate. (Also because you earned it by hard work.)

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To write about esoteric subjects or personal paths of enlightenment in books is not against this law. Books by everyone from actress Shirley MacLaine to Ruth Montgomery and dozens of astrological and metaphysical writers spread enlightenment in the spiritually approved way. The money received by the authors is for their labors at the typewriter, the talent of stringing words together, earned over years of practice and hard work. To earn your bread by writing is the same as to earn your bread by being a craftsman in any endeavor.

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Money must not change hands between esoteric teacher and student.

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posted February 17, 2008 05:14 PM         

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Neither should you blindly accept, on your quest for truth, the validity of the star sign codes of the Universe I offer in this book-until you have practiced and carefully tested each one, so that you can decide for yourself rather than take my word for it.

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However, I do not ask-nor do I even expect-any of you to regard my concepts as your truth, unless they should happen to agree with your own personal enlightenment and private convictions.

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But real Truth can be found in one place only-in every man's and woman's communion with an eternal Source of hidden Knowledge within-which each individual must seek and find for himself or herself.

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posted February 17, 2008 05:14 PM         

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"Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering Or The Dire Needs Of Others"

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posted February 17, 2008 05:49 PM         

If you were teaching your client to read charts, that's different than actually providing that service, and perhaps giving them some insight to understand how you arrived at the reading.

What I'm talking about, is the actual charging of money for instruction in a craft. And I DO believe that no matter what perspective I try to take, that Linda was talking about THAT specifically.

(By the way I thank you VERY kindly for your thorough reply. It was very good reading...and writing. )

So..when we are talking about the actual passing on of the knowledge of craft..is it ok to take money? Or is that what Linda mentioned as being, not such a great thing to do?

daf

posted February 17, 2008 09:02 PM         

So are you saying that Linda meant for us to ALWAYS charge so as to never have a STUDENT/TEACHER relationship in which that ancient rule could be violated? I guess that's a good way to get around it.

If I charge for a Teaching service..I'm not a teacher, I'm a service provider..correct?

And if I contract to pay a fee for learning, then I am no longer a student..I am a client.

So THAT is what Linda meant then. Yes? Ok.

Is that what Linda meant?! Ok, I'm confused.

(Sorry to be more obtuse than normal, this one has always stumped me.)

It just seems so clear, regardless of what Linda said, that the saying and the traditions have been around for much longer than she, in many cultures.

They all seem to suggest the same thing, that fees weren't to be charged for instruction in a craft or tradition. One of the reasons for apprenticeships, perhaps? Who knows?

(Teaching a craft seems separate from charging for the actual practicing of that craft. Astrologers charging for readings doesn't seem at all in violation to me. You aren't teaching, you're using skills honed over the course of years, to TRANSLATE..not teach. If the client learns from the translation, hey..happier customer!)

But, to charge for the TEACHING of a craft, seems in violation of that natural law, IMHO.

Thanks for the help, though. Any way to explain it that might make it easier for me to understand? Or, did I miss the point, and we're actually in agreement? I can never tell.

daf

posted February 18, 2008 10:25 AM         

I've advertised Lindaland on my own sites, shared my experiences here with others, and have referred more people personally to this site than I can remember.

If someone has a problem with me linking to the Original Linda Goodman forums, which are now dying because Greg Ellison died..then by all means, speak your mind.

I've NEVER exercised my right to have a signature. Everyone else has their quotes, their pictures..or whatever else they feel is important to communicate. Well this is important to me. So I'm exercising my right for once.

The Original Linda Goodman Forums on the web are dying. And that's a shame..a horrible shame. A tragedy.

Randall came from that site. JwHop. Juniperb is on that site. fayte.m LiaLei ListensToTrees, Bibi...who else among us is on that site or came from that site?

(That and Randall's hard work and fantastic promotional skills.)

There needs to be a place for folks that don't like abrasive conversation. Sometimes this isn't it. This is where we come when we just want to let ALL sides of our experience come out in MOST forms that it wants to come out. There, the moderators are a little more strict about keeping argument and confrontation to a minimum.

That's what Lindaland offers..the opportunity to speak our minds COMPLETELY openly, regardless of how negative the energy can get sometimes in the heat of discussion. All part of the wheel of life, I suppose.

They each offer something to the metaphysical explorer, and the spiritual seeker. They should both exist simultaneously in cyberspace.

And so, I won't let that site die if I can help to save it. It is a historic landmark in the Linda Goodman community. We have an obligation to save it if we care.

Petty politics and internet warring aside for me, because I'm not interested in being a part of this ridiculous infighting.

I belong in both places, and will do what I did for Linda-Goodman.com...for them. Because it's important to me. I'd have to leave before I'd stop. I love Lindaland more than you could know. But this means that much.. and is THAT important to me.

So let's hear that two cents about teaching for hire, TH.

OR should we stay off topic?

posted February 18, 2008 02:37 PM         

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They all seem to suggest the same thing, that fees weren't to be charged for instruction in a craft or tradition. One of the reasons for apprenticeships, perhaps? Who knows?

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(Teaching a craft seems separate from charging for the actual practicing of that craft.

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But, to charge for the TEACHING of a craft, seems in violation of that natural law, IMHO.

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Re-read what she said again. She contradicted herself and feebly attempted to justify her contradictions.

So again I ask...exactly what craft(s) should a student be taught for free and what teachers should never be paid?
The students win here, and can then go forth and make a living with what was taught to them.
The teacher is left empty handed, and gave away time and energy for nothing. Not an equitable exchange at all, and treating a teacher as just a thing to be used. The craftsman gets paid, so why not the teacher?

So what free taught crafts are being considered here?

posted February 18, 2008 03:12 PM         

We came into this world, without a penny, and without a skill other than our ability to smile, make others fall in love with and have mercy on our fragile condition.

Our skills were nurtured by our environment and the people that passed through our lives, by our own determination..and our willingness to get back on that horse.

Is that sort of time and sweat investment worth money? Absolutely, that why you make money practicing the craft you've so carefully cultivated.

But in the end, if everyone charged, and no one wanted to pay..either the knowledge would be free eventually...or lost to the human race forever..

I haven't entirely formed an opinion on this, but the more people use "gotta make a living" as the justification, the more carefully I'm inclined to examine the issue.

It seems that where ever things don't sit quite right, there is money involved. And this "need" that everyone whips out as a reason for doing ANYTHING. "I brutalized that guy because he resisted, it's my job..and I gotta pay my bills."

Well this isn't brutalizing anyone. And I'm not saying that an exchange between student and teacher isn't acceptable.

In fact, as you pointed out...it's normal for such exchanges of time, effort and other things, to change hands.

But maybe it's something about the nature of money itself..that f---s up the purity of the exchange. How can a student truly be a student, when he feels entitled to a certain level of teaching that he may at any time DEMAND be delivered to him? "You took my money, sensae. Now teach some good stuff..or give me my money back."

See? I don't really want to argue with you. And I don't want to go over what Linda did or did not say ad nauseum. (Although a little exploration into your idea that she may have been a hypocrite would be interesting.)

It would be nice to EXPLORE the roots of this idea. Where it came from, how it's been exercised in other cultures and situations.

That would be nice. Because opinions are everywhere, and tell us nothing about anything.

Let's talk about all aspects of this, except let's avoid the part where you pick apart my observations because you think this is a battle of ideals or some crazy sh-- like that.

You had a great start for the first 4 posts, but what further notions are you willing to explore on the subject?

Again, not looking for your point by point notions about my words..or my thoughts. I'm not here to engage you in an opinion battle-royale..thank you very much.

What would be interesting to explore is:

What's this "no money should change hand between teacher and student" thing? And DID Linda do a good job of communicating it through her words and actions?

(Since you're bringing that up..why not? You're suggesting that Linda was a hypocrite, LEXX. That's sounds like something that might fit into this discussion somehow too. Kinda negative, but hey..this is LL..we can do that here.)

So what are other examples of this sort of "relationship" between teacher and student that avoided monetary exchange are there?

daf

posted February 18, 2008 03:15 PM         

Just because traffic is down there, thats not our concern, we are moving toward a higher goal. putting a link up is one thing, but you hid it in a saying, "Linda Goodman FRIENDS UNITE." Why not just put the websites NAME instead of tricking people into going there with a quote like that? It just seems like you are being deceiving. I am sure that if you put up www.consciousevolution.com like I just did, now one would care and I wouldn't be getting a mail box full of complaints from people here or my phone wouldn't be ringing with questions about..."did you see what is on LL," and I wouldn't have to email Randall asking why you would just put up the link and not something that would make people THINK its something new. Thats all I am saying or Asking?

When you do things this way, people question your loyalty and friendship to both sites, sometimes being blunt and just putting it out there gets you more respect from others. But thats just my and others observations. And if they don't want to say anything thats okay, I will.

I do respect your way and its a wonderful gesture, though it will fail. I say this because as a example, I was sent a paste of when BiBi went to CE and posted Sally's info, there was ruckus and such upon the topic, someone said something to the effects of, "I don't go to the other site (or I have never gone there) because the owner of that site was banned from our site which is the original one." I mean I understand your wanting to get everyone together, I would just like to know where I am going (as would all others) when I see a Link stating that Linda Goodman fans unite, I would feel deceived as would one of the CE people who have notioned that they wouldn't come here.

As far as Linda and the "RULES" I agree with LEXX (and I can't help but think of that cable show...sorry) the contradictions.

Linda Was really good at what she did, and if you read that preface, it does zero in on TEACHER/Student, not service provider/client/customer, and the reason for this is Linda knew that everyone couldn't do what she and others could: write books.

Those that write have no reason to charge a service...unless their books are terrible or don't sell, this is why she attacked psychics and such in the preface too. Those that were writing books or on television shows...still they charged ridiculous prices to people who barely had money, those that truly believed in the art, those that would give their last penny to LIsten even if the info was false.

Now as Lexx pointed out..she said this on that page and that on another page..all it is is Lawyer mumbo jumbo talk that translates to this: "If you want to charge, do what you must, I write books and make my hard earned money this way, I can do it, if you can't and you feel that the Mystique of money won't flow to you like others...then do what you must..!"

Linda didn't charge, because Linda didn't have time to charge, she could write up a book from all the things she learned. There wasn't a reason to charge and expend energy. this is the key with doing charts of any kinda, its exhausting, if you do a astrology,numerology,Lexigram chart for free, you feel drained to the fullest, I discussed this with a friend once and they stated when money is exchanged for a service its called THE EXCHANGE OF ENERGY, you both have exchanged energy, you doing the service and they giving the fee. This made total sense to me.

Linda knew this also, but she also knew she could do other services to a larger population in a smaller time frame that any of us doing charts all day.

Linda would get request in the mail with money packed in envelopes. These would be from princes and princes..diplomats and such, and their they would stay, sent back to the person. when asked by someone why she didn't take the money and do the charts she would state, "If I took the money and did all those services, I would never get anything else done!"

NOW thats discipline, money right in front of your face...TAX FREE! But this woman knew in the end the bigger reward was her writing.

also when discussing about Linda passing over her clients over to other friends, I was told that "she might have passed clients over, but that doesn't mean she was charging for the service to the people she referred elsewhere, she told them they could trust another person perhaps, but she didn't charge those people and passing them to a referral, in the end what ever that person did, whether it was a free service or a fee, that was between those two.

You can't write a book (well you can) and tell the world its a sin to charge other a fee, yes that would seem as if it was LINDA"S WAY and the ONLY WAY....LOL. I agree.

she mentions the church and too bad their isn't a way for astrologers to get paid by a institution. Of course we are not men and woman of the cloth, so we don't count as that, and we are shunned by the Magic that we do by others in these institutions, though under it all, they practice in it, the liars they are.

Linda knew that not everyone was lucky to write and get a book excepted as LEXX Pointed out, EVEN though she truly believed in that rule herself, because once you write it on paper like the Ten commandments, its engraved for all time and if you go against that contract, all that have read it will judge you in a negative matter...even if they disagreed with you and do charge, if you go against what you say, you are doomed.

This is obviously the reason under it all, why Crystal is no where to be found. now if we look at the hype behind the Info commercial and the relationship signs phone number...it didn't work. BiBi stated she told Linda it wouldn't work (whether thats because of a chart or just he fact that linda believed you shouldn't charge) and that is exactly what happened! Then Author Klebanoff, his Deputy Lisa Edwards and crystal bush figured out how to convert the material into Linda Goodman's Relationship Signs, which earned nearly 1 million in a series of worldwide editions.

He said it..I didn't:

"The Brand of Linda Goodmans's Signs books would even survive her death. Linda had written material for a computer generated "matching" Analysis. (NOTE "SHE" WROTE it...she did her thing that she was good at, she still stuck to her rule or hard sweat, blood and tears) Crystal Bush, who owns "MOST" of the Linda Goodman rights now, my Deputy Lisa Edwards, and I "FIGURED" out how to convert this material into Linda Goodman's Relationship Signs, which earned nearly $1 million in a series of worldwide editions. And the brand continued to carry the backlist."

and so it was "figured" and then the website went up and fell down and still the evil stink lingers from it.

So our Lady Stuck to her guns in what she believed was right without "outright" telling us..."NO YOU CAN"T CHARGE!" Linda knew there were good people out there that did this service for the good of others, that this was their only way of making a means. You can't take that from good people, you can only state your own opinion and still tell all that they don't have to take your word in the book at the WAY! LOL

I had wondered about that rule for years! I even had a web site that I put on hold for three years because I would twist in my bed about if it was right to charge a fee. I even talked to many of my friends on here about the whole delay and each said, "you are not Linda THor!" They were right, we all follow our own stamp, our own journey.

The rule is as LEXX said, "you just don't take advantage of those that don't have." If they do have and they are lying to you, you'll know...if you are really good and they will get what is coming to them...as has been said with the universe and Karma.

IF CE is dying as Dafremen said, I am truly sorry. you stated:

"IF someone has a problem with me linking to the Original Linda Goodman FOrums, which are now dying because Greg Ellison DIed....then by all means, speak your mind."

All things that start bad, are destined to die...and I am not saying its because of Greg (though he has something to do with it too), its Crystals seed that started it all and broke the rule that Linda talked bout. Crystal was told that Linda wouldn't charge profit....lol, I mean cmon..on..selling of SKIN CREAM...what the hell is that about. SO if Greg or anyone else joined the harem...well thats it.

Listen Dafremen...let me tell you a story one of Linda's friends told me. That friend can add to this story if they want to, as they come on here all the time.

After Linda passed on, business went on as usual, the plan was still to get the "PROJECTS" up and going. This wasn't to get linda's legacy to continue, it was for money! they "FIGURED OUT HOW TO CONVERT" everything into making money.

After linda passed on, someone sent there boyfriend to Linda's house to try and retrieve the Lincoln Lithograph. Yes. they actually couldn't get there, so they sent their boyfriend to try to go into linda's home to STEAL the priceless picture of lincoln.

the person couldn't get into because the door was locked, and when they stated this to the evil one that sent them there via plane, the person said..."I send you to do one thing, and you can't even do that!"

I think its funny that SHE couldn't do it herself, she had to send her boyfriend to walk into a deceased woman's home and get the picture. This shows that it was all about money and not the passing of the torch and keeping the name of Linda Goodman alive..it was about money.

Later during a dinner with Crystal's Kid, someone mentioned the Picture again, and when it was ignored...the comment, the person said..."well I thought Greg was going to try and get it this time?" At that moment, the person who asked the question then screamed, "OUCH...Why did you kick me?!" (as they were sitting at a table)

If anyone wants to confirm that story they can, as the person was there both times and heard them. IF not, it matters not to me.

what ever the issue is with CE...dying as you say, though I am sure they would correct you in that phrase, if the site is dying, its no ones fault but the ones who started Linda-goodman.com under false pretenses using her name as a way to conjure up profit for themselves and in the end it all came down on them all, and its obviously still happening.

posted February 18, 2008 03:41 PM         

But, figured that was a bit too volatile. I was keeping it under the radar so as not to appear "in your face" with it. That was until you decided to bring it up. Now it's in the open. Now I'll discuss it.

Randall has his own history of chasing after money in questionable ways.

Apparently, both sites do and did.

Diversified Acquisitions is a real estate company now basically defunct. Randall, coincidentally, is known as the Lease Option King. He operates on the "Big Dog(*growl*)" philosophy. And that's fine.)

see also:
Randall Mixon - The Lease Option King

Struggling? Hard up for cash? Let us take over your house instead of the bank taking it.

I'm not here to judge Randall orwhat he does to make ends meet. I'm here to point out that no one is "pure" to Linda's memory.

No reflection on how hard Randall struggled to get this place going makes him perfect, or more "in tune with Linda."

Randall's a trooper. No doubt about that. But he's as subject to bullsh-tting as any of the people you mentioned. What I read on his site seemed maybe two steps above a used car salesman in its ideas about marketing and making a fast buck.

Don't praise the saints or shame the sinners too much and we'll all get along just fine.

I mean come on. We're all humans here. No one's got clean hands in this. Everyone's slinging sh-- and no one is honoring Linda's memory with this divisive crap.

I'm a contributer on this board; have been for a long time. And I think this feud is complete SH-- and I don't care who started it.

I know that Greg Ellison was a fine human being, and that site is his baby. I know that Lindaland has been my home site forever, and is Randall's baby.

And the fact that people want me to pick sides in a petty squabble over money and Linda's name and whatever else crap anyone cares to throw into this disgusting display of human pettiness makes me sick.

I'm a Libra, so my answer is this:

I'll pick both sides, do what I do, and deal with the consequences. I've never been afraid to before.

Anyone want to get on topic yet?

daf

P.S. I have it on good authority that Crystal Bush is not affiliated with the site in any way. They did not like her tactics, or her treatment of Linda's friend Evelyn(?) anymore than anyone else did.

posted February 18, 2008 06:38 PM         

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Linda would get request in the mail with money packed in envelopes. These would be from princes and princes..diplomats and such, and their they would stay, sent back to the person. when asked by someone why she didn't take the money and do the charts she would state, "If I took the money and did all those services, I would never get anything else done!"

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