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Author
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Topic: Sorry to be a Skeptic
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Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 22, 2002 12:11 AM
 
I really don't want to be an annoyance on this forum....but.... How can physical immortality be scientifically proven? I mean, how can you believe in something that doesn't have any....proof? I mean maybe it's just because I'm a Cappy with a Virgo moon, but unless I met someone who could prove it, or have any other tangible evidence...I just can't believe it. Another thing... it is my assumption that you would have to be extremely healthy to be an immortal. Can all those who claim to be immortals say that: they eat what they should, exercise often, don't drink, don't smoke, don't take any meds, etc. Speaking of eating what you should....I think fish and vegatables are a crucial part of one's diet...but many say you cannot eat those and still be truly healthy or immortal. Thoughts, anyone? ------------------
but you heard me anyway, and murmered "don't cry, sad druid
I always understand -- everything you do
and thank you for loving me too" IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted April 22, 2002 12:50 AM
I don't follow Linda's plan for immortality. As she said, there are many Paths to Rome. Several species of animals are immortal. It seems to be a natural occurrence of genetic randomness. So, in fact, it is scientifically proven. It will never be so with humans, because there is the Spiritual factor to consider, which can never be scientifically validated. Humans have death genes (M1 and M2, respectively), which can be turned off and even reversed in labs. Using our thoughts, we can do the same to our own death genes, but I do not expect science to ever discover this, because they are looking in the wrong place. For physical immortality to be true for humans, one has to accept (on faith) that astrology is true, that we each have a Soul that survives physical death, and that reincarnation is fact. Science has yet to "prove" any of the above.  ------------------
"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted April 22, 2002 12:56 AM
About diet, animals in the wild eat only what they are biologically adaptable to. Human dis-ease is often the result of betraying this natural law. Humans have adapted to a diverse diet; however, the ideal food for humans is raw fruit. Second to that are seeds, nuts, legumes, and raw vegetables. We are primates. We do not require vegetables or fish to be healthy. In fact, too much fish today can be extremely unhealthy due to its mercury content.  ------------------
"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot IP: Logged |
Avatar
Knowflake Posts: 24
From:
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted April 22, 2002 03:47 PM
There are many paths to Rome but you`d be hard pressed to find a better Teacher of Immortality than Linda Goodman
Though I believe it`s a DNA thing,activated through simply understanding and tuning into the notion that your higher immortal self is supposed to govern your lower Earthly self.
Reactivating and Managing the Cell stuff through the power of your Mind/Overself.Activation of Awareness
If you want it
Simple ***  IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 22, 2002 11:11 PM
Does anyone here believe in physical immortality because of science? I'm guessing Dan (purple leprauchan) does. By the way, I went to Borders but they don't have any of your books. I hate ordering online...do you think Barnes and Nobles would have them? What about disease? Do you think it is just a "lifestyle?" Just a problem with the mind or spirit? I don't see how you could believe all of this and still believe diseases are real. ------------------
but you heard me anyway, and murmered "don't cry, sad druid
I always understand -- everything you do
and thank you for loving me too" IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted April 22, 2002 11:37 PM
If you looked at physical immortality from a scientific vantage point (at the biology of it all), it would go along well with what we know about the world, even though there would be gaps in our understanding (much like we can't fully explain how the brain works or how gravity functions). Dis-ease can be linked to many things: Environmental factors, heredity, and nutrition/diet, to name a few. But underneath it all, I beLIeVE the fundamental cause of all dis-ease in one way or another is (like every experience we experience) the result of our thoughts.  ------------------
"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 22, 2002 11:59 PM
Randall, I  ya, you seriously are a great guy and I think you are very intelligent and enlightened.....but it is people like that who think "mind over matter" that make me insane. I have encountered too many healhy people who are self-righteous because of their health. I cannot express how much pain and suffering people like you have caused me to go through. Let me say that again. These christian scientist-like beliefs make sick people go through hell thinking no one believes them or acknowledges what they go through. I'm sitting here crying because I know it is hard enough for people who are sick to deal with their diseases, and then there are society's opinions and stereotypes that they must deal with.
"Oh, she's probably depressed, or too busy, or has too much stress." This seems to be the new way of thinking. "You just need a vacation."
Disease is not some pie-in-the-sky journey to discover that your thoughts and feelings are unhealthy. ------------------
but you heard me anyway, and murmered "don't cry, sad druid
I always understand -- everything you do
and thank you for loving me too" IP: Logged |
Avatar
Knowflake Posts: 24
From:
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted April 23, 2002 02:09 AM
GooberIt`s really nothing to do with Science but more like a lightbulb suddenly switching on,
like a light of truth switching on in you !Ping! Just like that  ------------------
Avatar
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted April 23, 2002 02:54 AM
But you chose yours for a reason. It's all about Soul choices.------------------
"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 23, 2002 01:34 PM
Well...I was a little emotional last night. It's a sensitive topic for me. I've had such a hard time with it. I was in the hospital in february and they made a mistake and I almost died. I'm fine now, but it was pretty traumatic. I do believe that some good tihngs have come out of this all. I'm a stronger person after dealing with some bad people in the medical profession. You wouldn't believe the idiots I've encountered. In retrospect it's kind of funny.IP: Logged |
Caileah
Knowflake Posts: 924
From: The Milky Way
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted April 23, 2002 01:49 PM
GooberzLLF~ I hope you are feeling better, kNowflake I was wondering, have you read the book *Journey of Souls* ? I think it might be helpful in answering some of your questions about illness, disease, and suffering I know many people who for the life of them could not understand why we suffer for *no apparent reason* - until they read that book. It's been key in more *sOul* healing and enLightenment than I can shake a stick at! Swear!------------------
. * + . + * . Caileah . * + . + * . The Knowflake formerly known as Princess IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 23, 2002 01:56 PM
Haven't read it. Who's it by? I'd be very interested in reading it.------------------
but you heard me anyway, and murmered "don't cry, sad druid
I always understand -- everything you do
and thank you for loving me too" IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 23, 2002 11:04 PM
Wow, that's so interesting.I will definately order your book. And I'm not just saying that! I seriously want to know about the scientific side of it all. ------------------
but you heard me anyway, and murmered "don't cry, sad druid
I always understand -- everything you do
and thank you for loving me too" IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted April 24, 2002 08:14 AM
GLLF, weren't you born with fibromalgia? I look at that as a Soul choice more so than thought-based. ------------------
"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot IP: Logged |
Pisces Moon
Knowflake Posts: 326
From: Canberra ACT Australia
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted April 24, 2002 08:48 AM
Wow, Purple Leprechaun!I loved what you said. It's very, very true, and I am 100% in agreement. I also think that people who say, "Oh, sickness is in all your mind (or your soul)", and dismiss you, are just using that as an excuse to be uncompassionate. I mean, if someone was sad because their mother had just died, I wouldn't say, "Sadness is all in your head", or "Death doesn't really have any reality, as nothing dies, and we are all immortal, so that lets me out from feeling your pain, or trying to help you through your grief". There is a real difference between true spiritual insight and superficial "pop New Age thought". IP: Logged |
Caileah
Knowflake Posts: 924
From: The Milky Way
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted April 24, 2002 12:02 PM
GooberzLLF~ Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives ~ by Michael Newton, Ph.D. http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/ isbnInquiry.asp?userid=6AXSM57NKN&mscssid=PCHTWX4P71W68G3JW1MABQBP88C77WR0&isbn=1567184855
Dan~ Can we buy your book at the store or does it need to be ordered? I didn't find it at my B&N 
PiscesMoon~ You are right, it's not compassionate to tell someone their suffering is "all in their head" ... whatever the cause or origin, pain is pain, suffering hurts...  For every *karmic suffering* we encounter along our path, we also are offered the opportunity to rise above our own karma - by *caring* (IMHO)
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. * + . + * . Caileah . * + . + * . The Knowflake formerly known as Princess
IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 24, 2002 02:06 PM
Randall~ No one's really born w/ FM. So no, I wasn't. One may have a genetic predisposition (I believe I did), but people don't really know how/why you get it. There's a theory it's a hormonal problem, which I think is true in my case. The summer I was coming down with all the symptoms was right when I was growing a lot and changing so quickly. Girls go through puberty SO quickly, and I think some hormones get goofed up. I was unbelievably active and healthy before I went through all those changes so quickly. I played tennis five times a week and saw a personal trainer three times a week. I was an athlete in every sense of the word. My hormones were so out of whack. "thought-based," is crap, and I'm not trying to be rude by saying that, but I find it very offensive.Pisces Moon and Princess~ (errr, I mean Calieah!! But you will always be the chronicprincess to me  ) You guys totally know what I'm trying to express!! Thankyou! I hate being misunderstood. I'm not always eloquent enough to say what I mean, but you guys are like my little representatives and always seem to understand where I'm coming from. ------------------
but you heard me anyway, and murmered "don't cry, sad druid
I always understand -- everything you do
and thank you for loving me too" IP: Logged |
Caileah
Knowflake Posts: 924
From: The Milky Way
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted April 24, 2002 05:41 PM
GooberzLLF~ You can address me either way  ...if I hadn't managed to lock myself out of *Princess's* profile, I'd still be using it ------------------
. * + . + * . Caileah . * + . + * . The Knowflake formerly known as Princess IP: Logged |
Elohim
Knowflake Posts: 509
From: the same Source as You.
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 25, 2002 01:12 AM
Yes, I agree that telling someone their suffering is 'all in the head' is uncompassionate. Suffering is very real, not imaginary. However, the real meaning of 'all in the head' is that the root of suffering is 'in the head'. All suffering is due to negative thoughts ~ thoughts give rise to feelings, and feelings cause physical changes in the body. For physical suffering, we really do need physical healing. It can't be just imaghined away (what "It's all in the head" seems to imply). But, only physical healing is not enough. We have to change our attitude too (the one which caused the physical suffering), otherwise the dis-ease will return. The book "Heal Your Body" by Louise L. Hay provides an excellent introduction to this topic ~ what kind of thoughts or attitudes cause which physical dis-ease in the body, and what belief and attitude to adopt to re-verse the dis-ease. Do try it! 
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Love and Light. IP: Logged |
Pisces Moon
Knowflake Posts: 326
From: Canberra ACT Australia
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted April 25, 2002 04:40 AM
One of the (many) things I love about Lindaland is that everyone here is kind and compassionate, and would never dismiss anyone who was suffering.Elohim, I think you are right - once physical suffering affects the body, the body needs healing, as well as the mind, heart and spirit. Actually, I am not a fan of Louise Hay. When I first read her books, I got a "warning" signal from my Higher Self. I felt that her diagnoses were facile and one dimensional. A couple of years ago, I got to meet Ms Hay at the Theosophy bookstore in Sydney, which organises lectures, book signings and other events. She was appearing with several other authors. I didn't like her at all, I'm afraid. To me, she seemed cold and hard, and the eptitome of the "uncompassionate New Age" attitude I wrote of earlier. I'm sure that her works have some value, but they are not for me. IP: Logged |
Elohim
Knowflake Posts: 509
From: the same Source as You.
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 25, 2002 04:58 AM
Pisces Moon ,I had never met Ms. Hay in person; I had only read a book by her, and she seemed to be a wise person. Anyway, Ms. Hay is not the only one person who has tried to spread these beliefs. I am a Reiki channel, and the co-relation of certain dis-eases with certain specific thoughts patterns is a well-known fact in the Reiki community. Here are two Reiki books from which you can learn about the beliefs and attitudes which cause certain dis-eases: 1. The Joy of Reiki
~ Nalin Nirula,
Renoo Nirula. 2. REIKI: Universal Life Energy
~ Bodo J. Baginski,
Shalila Sharamon. ------------------
Love and Light. IP: Logged |
moondancer
Knowflake Posts: 61
From:
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted April 25, 2002 08:26 AM
I think it's ok to have questions about this whole physical immortality thing. Who wouldn't? I was falling over when I read about it in star signs. I mean here we are brought up to believe something all our lives and then suddenly we discover something else entirely. But I don't see anything wrong with going along with it. I mean what has one got to lose by following the guidelines in Star Signs. Red grape juice is healthy for you, so's calcium and vitamin E. There's no harm in it to my opinion. Besides we could be part of a great experiment and become icons for future generations!!!  IP: Logged |
Gooberzlostlovefound
Knowflake Posts: 433
From: and the embers never fade in your city by the lake
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted April 25, 2002 11:43 AM
Picses Moon~ I don't know anything about Louise Hay, good or bad... but don't you hate the cold New Age garbage that keeps surfacing? I see so much of it now. All these people saying things like, "heart disease comes from ignoring the emotions in our hearts," or "chronic soar throats are caused by not voicing your opinion."
How ridiculous is THAT?
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but you heard me anyway, and murmered "don't cry, sad druid
I always understand -- everything you do
and thank you for loving me too" IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted April 25, 2002 06:26 PM
GLLF, I once felt exactly like you. Me thinks you'll come around to a new understanding in the near future. ------------------
"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot IP: Logged |
Caileah
Knowflake Posts: 924
From: The Milky Way
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted April 26, 2002 12:33 PM
GooberzLLF~ This is another book title that might offer some more understanding about illness - Anatomy of the Spirit - The Stages of Power and Healing, by Caroline Myss, Ph. D.You comment, "chronic sore throats are caused by not voicing your opinion" connected with me - I realize it does *sound* ridiculous, but I have to tell you that when I no longer felt *I* was being emotionally drowned, I stopped having *chronic bronchitis* and when I was finally able to *voice* what hurts me (emotionally) I stopped having *chronic sore throats* I realize that might sound nuts, and it's not even something I was consciously aware of happening, but when the dust settled 'tis what happened just the same Dan~ I will have B&N order it and... your last post was very well put - thanks for taking the time ------------------
. * + . + * . Caileah . * + . + * . The Knowflake formerly known as Princess IP: Logged |
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