Posts: 131
From: I live in the cloud of dreams.
Registered: Apr 2002

posted May 10, 2002 05:19 PM         

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It's funny how people talk about heaven, it seems so unatural that you stay in heaven for all eternity. I mean I do believe in heaven but you dont go up thier just by living one life. I'm mean no one is perfect, and to go to heaven (the most perfect place) your soul has to be perfect too, right? I feel like we have to live many lives before we can meet god. I mean unless your a monk or nun or something, hehehehe!
What do you guys think?

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From: Melb Fl
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posted May 10, 2002 05:40 PM         

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I've believed in reincarnation since I was a teenager....made the most sense to me!

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From: Columbus, GA USA
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posted May 11, 2002 09:17 AM         

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For over 500 years, Christians taught reincarnation as a core belief. It can be reasonably inferred that Jesus and His disciples did so as well.

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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From: I live in the cloud of dreams.
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posted May 11, 2002 09:32 PM         

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Thats very interesting,why did they ban this belief, for the main reason that had taught this for a good 500 years? Can you please tell me the book or site you found that information on. I really would like to satisfy this curiousity in my mind.
-starchild,

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From: Toronto
Registered: Dec 2001

posted May 12, 2002 10:02 PM         

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HEAVEN is living a harmonious life. Nothing more, nothing less.

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From: Columbus, GA USA
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posted May 13, 2002 08:43 AM         

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I learned it from Linda and confirmed it with my college world history professor. Any world history teacher should be able to confirm it. I'm sure there's much written about it.

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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Posts: 924
From: The Milky Way
Registered: Apr 2002

posted May 14, 2002 01:45 AM         

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To embrace reincarnation and karma as something real means having to take responsibility for our free will - and most people would just rather not; leaving that up to *fate* or Jesus Himself because his crucifixion has absolved them of any sin

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. * + . + * . Caileah . * + . + * . The Knowflake formerly known as Princess

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From: Canberra ACT Australia
Registered: Dec 2001

posted May 14, 2002 03:27 AM         

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Starchild, Jesus Christ is quoted in the New Testament as saying he (Jesus of Nazareth) was a reincarnation of Moses, and John the Baptist was a reincarnation of Elijah. St Paul told his congregation that Jesus was a reincarnation of Melchizedek (not sure of spelling) but that this information was only for the most spiritually advanced. It seems even that early on, Christians were starting to think about keeping reincarnation a secret. This is, however, all quite openly published, and can be read in any modern translation of the New Testament.

As far as heaven goes, maybe we get to "rest" there between earth trips?? It's a transit lounge, not a destination??

My best friend said it seems silly to believe that our Co-Creators went to all the trouble to create the universe for us, and for us to only live here for a few decades before being shipped off to Heaven (or Another Place!). It doesn't make much sense - what would be the point of life?

Linda said in Sun Signs that belief in reincarnation was itself a gift from other lifetimes.

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Posts: 131
From: I live in the cloud of dreams.
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posted May 14, 2002 04:04 PM         

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Thank you I'll have to see that in the bible, do you know the pg?
anyhow I really think that their is both?
Not the one thats always dreamed up with clouds, golden fences, and beautiful angels. I believe that mostly everyone one on earth has been reincarnated altleast once. (People really need to believe that you don't really die.) And like heaven can only be reached once your soul has learned everything it needs to learn from life. I think the only people that have reached heaven are nuns and monks. I really want to know where you found that Jesus was actually moses reincarnated.
We definitly don't live just once, I mean come on thats ridiculous. And what about hell where does that come from? How can anyone be shamed from god to get there?
Another thing that has boggles my mind is the fact that people who say they almost died thought they were going through a tunnel and whatever? What about them?
k byebye

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Posts: 924
From: The Milky Way
Registered: Apr 2002

posted May 14, 2002 06:39 PM         

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HEAVEN

AN *EVEN* HAVEN
A NAVE (interesting)

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. * + . + * . Caileah . * + . + * . The Knowflake formerly known as Princess

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From: California
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posted May 15, 2002 08:51 PM         

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I totally believe in karma and reincarnation.

I totally believe that all Souls go to the Spirit World. I believe that there are different levels of the Spirit World, and our goal is to ascend to the highest level, eventually.

Through karma and reincarnation, we work out our past mistakes through learning.

"Heaven and Hell" is a condition that humans create on Earth. You can create your own Heaven on Earth or you can create your own Hell on Earth. HOWEVER, I do NOT believe that "Hell" is a location that "God" "sends" people to. I don't believe there is a "Hell" in the Spirit World.

I sometimes refer to the Spirit World as Heaven. I believe at every death, your Soul goes to whatever level you're at in the Spirit World, and you meet "God" or "Jesus" or "Buddha" or whoever your higher power is, *each* *time*.

"God" or the "Source" created us out of LOVE. So "he" forgives us and understands us. Earth was created as a School for us to learn. So "he" is understanding when we do wrong. We watch a complete video of our life when we cross over and we *FEEL* the terrible hurts we did to others, 10 times worse than they felt it. Believe me, we judge ourselves and create our own karma. When we go "home", "God" isn't mean to us, he accepts us in Love.

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"To everything there is a Season, and a Time for every Purpose under Heaven..." ~Book of Ecclesiates

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From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
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posted May 15, 2002 10:32 PM         

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I've believed in reincarnation since I started having flashbacks from former lives. I also believe that everyone once on the Other Side has a choice as to whether they'd like to come back here or not.

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Posts: 326
From: Canberra ACT Australia
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posted May 16, 2002 04:02 AM         

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Starchild, I am still looking up those Bible bits. Also, I have to explain that you do need to have read quite *deeply* and in *context* to get the full flavour. (And naturally, lots of spiralling with the Help of Higher S-Elf).

Melchizedek is mentioned in Genesis (chap. 14, verses 18-20) as a high priest at the time of Abraham. He blessed Abraham and brought him food and wine when he was battle-weary. King David later wrote in Psalm 110 of the Messiah being "a priest forever ... in the Order of Melchizedek". This suggests to the enlightened mind, of Jesus of Nazareth being reborn each lifetime in this Order. (How else could one be a "priest forver"? And the initiated know that one is drawn to the same religions and orders that one has followed truly in other lives).

St Paul is presumed to have written the Letter to the Hebrews. In this he speaks of Melchizedek. (It's interesting to speculate where he gained his knowledge, since he is only mentioned twice in the Bible, and very briefly).

He calls Melchizedek the "king of righteousness" and "the king of peace" (chapter 7, verse 2) - the same words used of Jesus Christ and of NO-ONE ELSE in the Bible. In the Gospel of John (chapter 8 verse 56), the Christ says "Abraham rejoiced to see me", indicating that he had a clear memory of Abraham, and could have been the priest Melchizedek. In Hebrews 7, Paul says that Christ was "like unto Melchizedek", and is the High Priest in the Order of Melchizedek (the High Priest of Melchizedek is Melchizedek himself).

Paul rebukes his followers when he says that "it is difficult to explain, as you have become lazy in your listening" (Heb 5:11).

This may give the church a small "out" - could it be that they stopped teaching reincarnation because people simply became spiritually lazy, and refused to take responsibility for their actions? It's easy to imagine some people saying "Oh, who cares if I sin, I'll pay for it in another life, and not worry about it now?". Paul specifically says that they need to become spiritualy mature, and learn the difference between good and evil by listening within themselves.

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From: Columbus, GA USA
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posted May 16, 2002 04:10 AM         

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You've hit on something big there, Nephthys. Karma is not a punishment at all. It is a voluntary process. We choose our Karma in order to learn and to experience. Often (despite Free-will Earth choices), those that do harm to us are actually fulfilling Soul Agreements to give us the chance to learn forgiveness.

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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From: Canberra ACT Australia
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posted May 16, 2002 08:39 AM         

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Completely in agreement there.

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Posts: 131
From: I live in the cloud of dreams.
Registered: Apr 2002

posted May 16, 2002 10:40 AM         

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Thank you, I'm going to look up those verses.

Another question, do think that bible was corrupted with deleted verses and modifictations?

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From: The Milky Way
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posted May 16, 2002 08:49 PM         

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Starchild~ I think ALL bibles have been corrupted with *modifications* since there's been *versions* ...

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. * + . + * . Caileah . * + . + * . The Knowflake formerly known as Princess

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From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
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posted May 16, 2002 10:25 PM         

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The funny thing is, I know that the Bible's been tinkered with, but I always wondered how or why someone would do that (if they believe the Bible at all) since it says in my *version* of the Jerusalem Bible, in the Epilogue of the Book of Revelation:

quote:

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This is my solemn warning to all who hear the prophecies in this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book; if anyone cuts anything out of the prophecies of this book, God will cut off his share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are described in the book.

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Sounds worse than the threats at the end of chain letters

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From: Canberra ACT Australia
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posted May 17, 2002 06:50 AM         

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Yes, the Bible has been tampered with many times in history. Everyone except fundamentalists understands that. Though as Gooberlily says: why?

To be fair, often a lot gets lost in the translation, and sometimes people cheat a little when they are translating.

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From: I live in the cloud of dreams.
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posted May 17, 2002 03:54 PM         

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Actually I think I heard somewhere that the Roman Emperor Constantine ripped out and refined a lot of the pages in the bible. I also think that the whole witchcraft thing was a complete mistranslation and also a scare. I also think it's human nature to mistranslate a lot, espescailly with a big book like that. I mean if you guys had the ability to read and write in different languages, would you try to translate the bible?
It would take me years

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From: Columbus, GA USA
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posted May 18, 2002 08:32 AM         

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It's also likely many of the stories of Jesus were embellished or never happened at all, since much of it was passed on by word of mouth.

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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From: I live in the cloud of dreams.
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posted May 18, 2002 02:00 PM         

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I don't think so, I think the stories of jesus are real I don't think anyone would mess with that. I guess it could only be a matter of faith really.

But have you guys ever heard that Mary Magdalene might have been married to Jesus?

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From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
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posted May 19, 2002 12:14 AM         

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Yes, I've heard that Starchild Funny, I was just watching a program on that recently...and on the program one man who's written a book supposed that Jesus' death by crucifixion didn't take place, and that he and Mary Magdelene were married and ran off to France. He thinks it's very possible that people in France to this day carry some of the genes of Jesus.

You know, then it made me wonder about my French great-grandmother's name. It was Mary Magdeline. Every time I've told someone my great-grandmother's name was that, they look at me funny like there's something wrong with my family!

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From: Canberra ACT Australia
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posted May 19, 2002 01:04 AM         

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Yep, Constantine certainly messed with the Bible. He would not have worried about the consequences, as he was a follower of Mithra, a sun god. I doubt he ever read the Bible.

Randall, I think most of the stories are probably basically true, but as the versions are a little different in the Gospels, some saw them in a different way, and some may be exaggerations. Certainly the telling of them was politically motivated to an extent - for example, putting the Pharisee Jews in the worst light possible, and glossing over the evil acts of the Romans.

Gooberlily - the book you are thinking of is "Holy Blood and the Holy Grail". It's controversial, but it seems possible that Mary Magdalen and Jesus of Nazareth (not Jesus Christ) could have been married. For one thing, it was unheard of for a Jewish man to be single in those days. Linda believed they were soul mates; I think she got this idea from Edgar Cayce. The descendants of Jesus and Mary could well have lived on, and some people believe that the "Madonna and Child" artworks originally depicted Mary Magdalene and her baby, not the Virgin May and baby Jesus.

btw, Mary Magdalene is not an uncommon name in France, especially the South, where she is deeply revered as the "Black Virgin".

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Posts: 131
From: I live in the cloud of dreams.
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posted May 19, 2002 04:32 PM         

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Hey gooberlily,

I was watching the same exact show, but it's not where I got my ideas from. I think it was TLC or Discover Channel. These channels get so under rated but their so good. Anyhow on that show, I completley laughed at what he said about Jesus not being crucified. Thats dumb since it really is the basis of the religion, that he comes back resurected. I don't think anyone would have the idea to make up that story if it wasn't true. So that to me is pure crap and I wouldn't believe it if I were you. The guy doesn't really have enough evidence compared to whats already known. But I do have strange belief that Mary Magdalene was very important to jesus. Becuase she was the first to see him resurected or she noticed that he was gone. If moses was jesus reincarnated, didn't moses have wife. (I'm taking that idea from the animated movie ) but anyhow maybe Mary Magdalene was his soulmate and she was mose's wife reincarnated. I don't know but its sweet to think he was with his soul mate.
You know what guys, if some conservative christian ever saw this thread, I wonder what they would do. Since really our converstation is rather unchristian. The whole Jesus having children thing really scares me, I haven't really excepted that idea yet. But really if jesus had children how would he would be able to travel so much? I don't think so. The whole point is, Reincarnation makes a lot more sense if people in general gave the time to think about it.

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