Posts: 3193
From: Southern 'Bama
Registered: Aug 2002

posted December 19, 2002 12:37 AM         

---

those that do harm to us are actually fulfilling Soul Agreements to give us the chance to learn forgiveness

I just ran across that in a thread. I've read it before and think it often enough, but I really had to hear it then. It helped me with something, so thank you.

IP: Logged

Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted December 19, 2002 09:40 AM         

---

Our worst enemies are actually our best friends on the other side. In this world, they are consciously reacting out of anger, jealousy, revenge, or spite, but in Truth, much of it was agreed upon on a Higher level between us. And some are actually Angels who knowingly do so to push us in a certain direction (not easy to do, since we often muck everything up with our pesky Free-will Tinker Toys, so our behavior is difficult to predict--even for a Master) or to teach us to Love and forgive. And rarely, but occasionally, it's another (simultaneous) incarnation of our S-elves. Don't be so sure that your greatest enemy isn't really you in another clay vessel.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

Posts: 3280
From: San Francisco, CA, United States
Registered: Feb 2002

posted December 19, 2002 10:49 AM         

---

IP: Logged

Posts: 88
From:
Registered: Dec 2002

posted December 19, 2002 12:53 PM         

---

I am clueless about forgiveness, not understanding it, not practicing it. In my past lives I was taught forgiveness was wrong. As you can imagine, this Earth life has been quite the little wake up call at 3 AM.

IP: Logged

Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted December 19, 2002 01:43 PM         

---

That's what Earth school is all about! Everyone wants to stop here, and no one wants to leave! By the way, even as an Immortal, you know you have many future Lives, right? Time is of no consequence to the Soul. Your last Life could have been in the linear future, and your next in the linear past. The Soul in the Eternal Now is not bound by time constraints.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

Posts: 88
From:
Registered: Dec 2002

posted December 19, 2002 03:54 PM         

---

Actually I want to leave. My immortality is strictly a laziness-efficiency issue. I stand a better chance of balancing my karma if I stay alive rather than go through reincarnation upteenth times. This is my thunderbolt life, and when all this bad luck finishes raining down on my head and finally spends itself, then forgiveness will be the key that unlocks the door to my permanent freedom. I want out, out of these constraints, out of this life. Suicide is saying all these bad things are happening to me and I think if I die they will go away, but they never do, not that way, they keep coming back in your other lives. The only real freedom is bought with forgiveness. Forgiveness is a most serious issue, with huge consequences. You know, the first thing I read in Star Signs was when I was suicidal and I picked up the book for the first time and pawed my way to the page where Linda told me all about karma, and being Western-raised as I am, this was a new concept to me. Since then, everything made sense and suicide became wrong, but the mission, to deal with this nonsense once and for all, became paramount in my mind. Suddenly I refused to leave until myself and the Earth had been permanently saved from devastation. Something about leaving prematurely frustrated me, like it was not the right answer. So, for me, immortality is not about oh look at my great skin it is really about sticking around for as long as it takes. There are two kinds of immortality, one cosmetic-aesthetic, perfectly valid in its own right, the kind promoted by Linda, beauty creams, aerobics and yoga teachers and vitamin companies, and the other a simple form of self-maintenance that keeps your body in one piece. It does not give you boundless energy, the power to move things with your mind, have a 2 hour orgasm, or look 18. I would not mind getting into a big discussion some day about all the different expectations we have about immortality.

IP: Logged

Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted December 20, 2002 02:18 PM         

---

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

Posts: 504
From:
Registered: Aug 2002

posted December 24, 2002 08:31 AM         

---

Mercury..all of a sudden, I have the urge to hug you...so...HUGS

------------------

We are each of us angels with one wing and we can only fly by embracing each other-unknown

IP: Logged

Posts: 88
From:
Registered: Dec 2002

posted December 25, 2002 10:01 PM         

---

Reading this thread prompted and inspired me to suddenly start forgiving everyone and everything in my life. The list of things I hate and have vowed revenge against is actually quite legendary in length, so it is going to take some time. Forgiveness climbs up to a peak with a sudden drop-off. Getting myself to forgive someone is so hard, often seeming impossible at first, but after I do it there is a sudden apathetic sensation, as if it was a totally pointless issue to care about in the first place. Really blase and unrewarding experience, but it might just do away with all that nagging depression.

IP: Logged

Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted December 27, 2002 03:24 PM         

---

Forgiveness is our toughest Lesson.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

Posts: 1088
From: Rio de Janeiro , Brazil
Registered: Oct 2002

posted December 27, 2002 05:27 PM         

---

I posted this to a friend a while ago...

quote:

---

Masters ,Gurus and disciples, in many levels of the spirituality are unanimous in affirming that all those that put the foot in the path of the enlightenment, made that decision moved by love or by pain.
I can say that I choose the path for the two reasons.

And, I am able, even taking a risk, to affirm, that those to whom the pain drove, can, after a certain time,look back, and say, that there was love in that pain. And the other ones to whom the love guided, they will also recognize some pain in that love.

The truth is that,nobody put the foot in the path before it's ready to tread it. And even before that we think about following it, we are already being guided by those spirits of light that we chose as guardian, counselors, tutors and masters.
It doesn't matter if it was the love or the pain that took me to put my foot in the path.

I noticed that I had no other choice,and I don't regret.
The first thing that I discovered was that I am responsible for everything that I am, think, feel and do.
I am responsible now, and since the beginning, in everyday of my present life, in all of my past lives, and eternally.

That conscience tumbled on me, first as a storm, and then, it was accepted gradually by me.
That conscience of total responsibility was becoming more and more perceptive.

Even being in the beginning of my search,today I am spectator of my own actions.
Today, I try to have a calm acceptance to what happens to me in the daily, and I try to act in agreement with my internal faiths. That conscience enlarges aspects of myself more and more. Some quite positive .
Others not so much.

I discovered force, courage, energy, persistence and faith. On the other hand, the fact that I faced my own essence, made me notice on myself, less pleasant facets, as pride, prepotency, blames, and also a tendency to manipulate the other, through a game, where we altered victim's and executioner papers.

Soon,I understood that to take responsability for everything that happens to me, means to undertake a deep change, an intense sanitation in my vibratory field , transforming the atmosphere where I live and the relationships with relatives, friends and even concepts, as home, relationship, profession and money.

In the beginning I thought that those transformations should be undertaken at a mental level. To change the attitudes, for me,meant to modify ideas.
But I discovered that the changes don't begin in the "head".
After a lot to resist, I finally arrived , to the virtual and physical place where all the transformation happens.

In one day as any other one, meditating before sleeping, I put the foot for the first time, in the land -at that time- arid, stony and inhospitable of my own heart.
It is not necessary to say the size of the shock and the intense transformation work that was necessary to undertake.
In my heart I found fear, abandonment, sadness,pain, sorrow and disappointment .

But there was also inside of me,the memory of an interior full of gardens, with flowers and fruits, that my heart had already been, and, I was sure, it could be again.
There was in my heart the promise of infinite peace and love , symbolized by a fire , lower at that time, but intense.
I worked hard, with meditation and other practices that I learned with Saint Germain's and Allan Kardec's disciples.

But,to pray and to recite mantras is just a part of the work. What really matter, it's never to flee of ourselves, to face each thought and feeling with courage, to accept it, and transform them in something that shows harmony, cooperation and good will, first inside of you and then, in extension, for the atmosphere where you move.

When we are with the two feet firmly fastened in the path, we look for ourselves, for our dark side, for that,that is almost impossible to accept and to forgive,and we understand that the only possibility to have peace in our lives is forgiving.

I am very ,very,very happy because I can feel that you are beginning to tread your path.
Please always remember that the road to forgive is the road of love.

Jakie

---

I think it is time to post again.

Love
Jakie

IP: Logged

Posts: 3193
From: Southern 'Bama
Registered: Aug 2002

posted December 28, 2002 01:17 AM         

---

That is beautiful Jakie

I had something odd happen about a month ago - might ya'll have some insight?

I was randomly IMed by my ex. Things started off nice enough, but he then proceded to write a string of exceedingly cruel things (ie. "I never loved you,""Everything I ever told you was a lie,""You and your ideas are ridiculous, and I've always thought so", etc., and worse); and I felt...nothing during the whole affair.
Actually, that's not quite true. I felt love for him - this overwhelming and all-abiding love, and I told him so. He said, "What? Are you f***ing crazy or just pathetic? How could you f***ing love me, you f***ing retard."
And I said something to the effect of, "I didn't say that I'm still in love with you, or that I even like you right now, but I love you. I wish you the very best of everything and the happiest life imaginable."
No matter what he said, it only seemed like that love grew, as did my wish for him to be happy; I just wanted to take all of the pain and sadness in him away. This continued, with him writing something horrible, and then me writing something back to the effect of what I said above. He then seemed to break, and said that all of what he had just said wasn't true, and he had gotten on really wanting to hurt me and that he felt like the worst person alive, etc., etc.
I said that that didn't matter; that I love him, and that he should do all that he can to be happy; and then I wished him peace. Some more words were exchanged, but I don't know if what he said was a further lie (I mean, either way there was some serious fabrication at some point) or if he was being truthful. But the thing was that at that moment I couldn't have cared less - I still felt nothing but that overweaning love.
I can't explain it. I'm not a martyr and I'm not a saint, and as soon as the convo was over I was a mess - it was like floodgates had been opened; but during that whole time that incredibly peaceful feeling of love overwhelmed everything else (and when I say "love", I mean in it the sense that I loved him at that moment so much just for being, just as he was, and unconditionally - forgiveness wasn't even an issue; all was forgiven the moment it was done, or more like there was nothing to forgive; what was done was part of him, and I loved all of him...the effect of his actions on my ego were of no consequence, it didn't even matter...I can't explain it).
The feeling, the sensation really, was beautiful, and I'd love to take credit for it, but I can't say that it necessarily came from me. I mean, I've had moments of feeling that kind of love for seemingly everything, but they're subsumed into everyday action soon enough. In this instance, though, it seemed like my "normal" reactions and responses were hijacked -

So, do ya'll know what that could've been?
I'm thoroughly confused on the matter.

IP: Logged

Posts: 2007
From: Boca Raton, FL USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted December 28, 2002 05:56 AM         

---

WOw proxieme- can I just tell you that you seem really evolved. I bet you are an old soul. You are way ahead of me. When my bf or someone says something mean I fly off the handle and feel like I have to show them not to do that, when rather, reacting with love and kindness would prove much more effective.

------------------
Food is the only art that nourishes!

IP: Logged

Posts: 88
From:
Registered: Dec 2002

posted December 28, 2002 10:03 AM         

---

Proxieme...your experiences are similar to mine...somewhat. Even though I have never, ever, ever, been hijacked by anything (nor abducted by aliens either) your experience of dealing with this man who was verbally abusing you is very resonant with me. All of my life, it seems, has been one long string of soul-scarring verbal abuse, either me directing at others or others directing at me. I am embarassed to say only recently did I make any notable headway into finding solutions to the problem. What I found (by experimentation) is that you cannot return an eye for an eye and hope to ever do anything but worsen and compound your misery. Now when someone verbally abuses me, the pain is as strong as it ever was, the pain is severe and heartbreaking, but what has changed is my reaction. My own experience has come to the point that I am just too mature, too conscious, to knowingly throw myself into pointless arguments and meaningless karmic-ego head buttings.

I think at some point forgiveness stops being a forced action and becomes an unconscious reflex like breathing. Forgiveness is not a measure of will power, not a test of mind over evil, but a measure of the heart, of the spiritual size-power-capacity of a soul. Because of this fact it makes no difference how you justify your forgiveness or if you justify it at all, or even if you are consciously aware of it coming from you (Proxieme...the difference between those who are hijacked and those who are not is those who are not are simply aware that everything that happens to them is of their own doing)

IP: Logged

Posts: 272
From: Morristown, NJ USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted January 04, 2003 09:35 PM         

---

proxieme-

this reminded me of this story i like-

there once lived a buddhist monk who was greatly loved by many people and especially his students, everybody except his next-door neighbor. everyday when the monk would go outside to greet the morning sun, or when he was in his garden instructing his pupils, the neighbor would taunt him relentlessly. he would call him a fake and an awful person, would mock his life and his teachings. eventually, that neighbor died; one of the pupils found his master crying. "but why would you cry for this man, when he did nothing but riducule you?" the monk replied "no. this man never let me get to wrapped up in my own righteousness or take my own ego too seriously. he pointed out to me my short comings so i always was reminded of what i needed to work on within myself. he was a true friend"

so enemies teach us how to not take ourselves so seriously as well as lessons of forgiveness and compassion. hard thing to do!

IP: Logged